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Trap stomping Maru part 351
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Rushi also deserves a strike for saying that phrase "never basetrade a terran" that isnt the case anymore. Especially with a dt shrine and a thing called recall basetrading a terran as a toss is what they want most of the time
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Trap managed to win a tournament? What is he talking about?
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On October 04 2020 00:04 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:00 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:50 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:40 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:30 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:27 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:23 Fango wrote:
[quote]
They really need to make it so you can't pull massive units at least. Watching a mothership costing 400/400 get killed for free hurts my spine. Oh yeah, nothing greater than just having to tap out in lategame ZvP. Even if i think that abducts needs certain adjustment, making massive units non-pullable defeats the purpose of the unit. As opposed to tapping out in lategame P/TvZ if you're opponent has good viper control? I did not mind HT vs Ghost wars of TvP, why would i mind viper vs HT wars of late game PvZ? Especially given that tempests and oracles exist. Templar and ghosts don't fly and can't just delete tempests/carriers/motherships/thors/tanks etc with one ability. Infestors/tempar would be a better way to build PvZ. Also, vipers can't delete units either. Their only damage ability is a considerably slow DoT that only affects air. Pulling tempests into 25 corruptors doesn't count as deletion. TIL that you get free 25 upgraded corruptors when you get a viper. Where are you going with this You know baneling run-bys don't hurt protoss economy because probes are technically the only unit that can effect a protoss economy? Where i am going with this is that 25 corruptors erase massive air units vipers or not. What vipers actually do is allow you not to lose those 25 corruptors as a price of killing 3 or 4 carriers/tempests.
Corruptors have 6 range vs air. 25 corruptors don't delete units without being at risk of damage from the rest of the army. Vipers allow them to.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 04 2020 00:04 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:00 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:50 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:40 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:30 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:27 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:23 Fango wrote:
[quote]
They really need to make it so you can't pull massive units at least. Watching a mothership costing 400/400 get killed for free hurts my spine. Oh yeah, nothing greater than just having to tap out in lategame ZvP. Even if i think that abducts needs certain adjustment, making massive units non-pullable defeats the purpose of the unit. As opposed to tapping out in lategame P/TvZ if you're opponent has good viper control? I did not mind HT vs Ghost wars of TvP, why would i mind viper vs HT wars of late game PvZ? Especially given that tempests and oracles exist. Templar and ghosts don't fly and can't just delete tempests/carriers/motherships/thors/tanks etc with one ability. Infestors/tempar would be a better way to build PvZ. Also, vipers can't delete units either. Their only damage ability is a considerably slow DoT that only affects air. Pulling tempests into 25 corruptors doesn't count as deletion. TIL that you get free 25 upgraded corruptors when you get a viper. Where are you going with this You know baneling run-bys don't hurt protoss economy because probes are technically the only unit that can effect a protoss economy? He;'s going into very technical bullshit. Viper technically doesn;t kill any unit it abducts as it doesn't do the damage. The fact the counter play is with very nimble templars doesn't matter either. And the fact it's a fucking flying unit which can be clumped very effectively with other flying units - no issue!  Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 04 2020 00:00 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:50 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:40 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:30 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:27 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
Oh yeah, nothing greater than just having to tap out in lategame ZvP. Even if i think that abducts needs certain adjustment, making massive units non-pullable defeats the purpose of the unit. As opposed to tapping out in lategame P/TvZ if you're opponent has good viper control? I did not mind HT vs Ghost wars of TvP, why would i mind viper vs HT wars of late game PvZ? Especially given that tempests and oracles exist. Templar and ghosts don't fly and can't just delete tempests/carriers/motherships/thors/tanks etc with one ability. Infestors/tempar would be a better way to build PvZ. Also, vipers can't delete units either. Their only damage ability is a considerably slow DoT that only affects air. Pulling tempests into 25 corruptors doesn't count as deletion. TIL that you get free 25 upgraded corruptors when you get a viper. Where are you going with this You know baneling run-bys don't hurt protoss economy because probes are technically the only unit that can effect a protoss economy? Where i am going with this is that 25 corruptors erase massive air units vipers or not. What vipers actually do is allow you not to lose those 25 corruptors as a price of killing 3 or 4 carriers/tempests. WHich is very nice if there would be a solid counter play. Which there isn't. That's why moma ship needs them immunity or we need back the arbiter, so you have to waste the energy on them. (obviously immunity for mother ship is even bigger nonsense)
The actual counterplay to vipers is to outrange them, or do what Trap did and hit a very precise timing. Both are valid options and are exactly what is used in every other match-up to deal with 'I win' buttons.
Shortly put: there is a lot of things to talk about in PvZ but vipers are actually relatively minor in the list even if it triggers people that like to control their 4 distinct group endgame army with f2.
On October 04 2020 00:17 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 04 2020 00:00 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:50 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:40 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:30 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:27 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
Oh yeah, nothing greater than just having to tap out in lategame ZvP. Even if i think that abducts needs certain adjustment, making massive units non-pullable defeats the purpose of the unit. As opposed to tapping out in lategame P/TvZ if you're opponent has good viper control? I did not mind HT vs Ghost wars of TvP, why would i mind viper vs HT wars of late game PvZ? Especially given that tempests and oracles exist. Templar and ghosts don't fly and can't just delete tempests/carriers/motherships/thors/tanks etc with one ability. Infestors/tempar would be a better way to build PvZ. Also, vipers can't delete units either. Their only damage ability is a considerably slow DoT that only affects air. Pulling tempests into 25 corruptors doesn't count as deletion. TIL that you get free 25 upgraded corruptors when you get a viper. Where are you going with this You know baneling run-bys don't hurt protoss economy because probes are technically the only unit that can effect a protoss economy? Where i am going with this is that 25 corruptors erase massive air units vipers or not. What vipers actually do is allow you not to lose those 25 corruptors as a price of killing 3 or 4 carriers/tempests. Corruptors have 6 range vs air. 25 corruptors don't delete units without being at risk of damage from the rest of the army. Vipers allow them to.
That's literally what i said.
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On October 04 2020 00:17 ilax30 wrote:
Rushi also deserves a strike for saying that phrase "never basetrade a terran" that isnt the case anymore. Especially with a dt shrine and a thing called recall basetrading a terran as a toss is what they want most of the time
terrans never lost their advantages in basetrades
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On October 04 2020 00:17 deacon.frost wrote:
Trap managed to win a tournament? What is he talking about?
they were saying they both hypothetically could win this tournament
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On October 04 2020 00:17 ilax30 wrote:
Rushi also deserves a strike for saying that phrase "never basetrade a terran" that isnt the case anymore. Especially with a dt shrine and a thing called recall basetrading a terran as a toss is what they want most of the time
Yes Terran is now in fact the worst race at basetrading, truly beautiful.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 04 2020 00:17 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:04 deacon.frost wrote:On October 04 2020 00:00 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:50 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:40 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:30 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:27 lolfail9001 wrote:
[quote]
Oh yeah, nothing greater than just having to tap out in lategame ZvP. Even if i think that abducts needs certain adjustment, making massive units non-pullable defeats the purpose of the unit. As opposed to tapping out in lategame P/TvZ if you're opponent has good viper control? I did not mind HT vs Ghost wars of TvP, why would i mind viper vs HT wars of late game PvZ? Especially given that tempests and oracles exist. Templar and ghosts don't fly and can't just delete tempests/carriers/motherships/thors/tanks etc with one ability. Infestors/tempar would be a better way to build PvZ. Also, vipers can't delete units either. Their only damage ability is a considerably slow DoT that only affects air. Pulling tempests into 25 corruptors doesn't count as deletion. TIL that you get free 25 upgraded corruptors when you get a viper. Where are you going with this You know baneling run-bys don't hurt protoss economy because probes are technically the only unit that can effect a protoss economy? He;'s going into very technical bullshit. Viper technically doesn;t kill any unit it abducts as it doesn't do the damage. The fact the counter play is with very nimble templars doesn't matter either. And the fact it's a fucking flying unit which can be clumped very effectively with other flying units - no issue! On October 04 2020 00:04 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 04 2020 00:00 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:53 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:50 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:46 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:40 Fango wrote:On October 03 2020 23:37 lolfail9001 wrote:On October 03 2020 23:30 Fango wrote:
[quote]
As opposed to tapping out in lategame P/TvZ if you're opponent has good viper control? I did not mind HT vs Ghost wars of TvP, why would i mind viper vs HT wars of late game PvZ? Especially given that tempests and oracles exist. Templar and ghosts don't fly and can't just delete tempests/carriers/motherships/thors/tanks etc with one ability. Infestors/tempar would be a better way to build PvZ. Also, vipers can't delete units either. Their only damage ability is a considerably slow DoT that only affects air. Pulling tempests into 25 corruptors doesn't count as deletion. TIL that you get free 25 upgraded corruptors when you get a viper. Where are you going with this You know baneling run-bys don't hurt protoss economy because probes are technically the only unit that can effect a protoss economy? Where i am going with this is that 25 corruptors erase massive air units vipers or not. What vipers actually do is allow you not to lose those 25 corruptors as a price of killing 3 or 4 carriers/tempests. WHich is very nice if there would be a solid counter play. Which there isn't. That's why moma ship needs them immunity or we need back the arbiter, so you have to waste the energy on them. (obviously immunity for mother ship is even bigger nonsense) The actual counterplay to vipers is to outrange them, or do what Trap did and hit a very precise timing. Both are valid options and are exactly what is used in every other match-up to deal with 'I win' buttons. Shortly put: there is a lot of things to talk about in PvZ but vipers are actually relatively minor in the list even if it triggers people that like to control their endgame army with f2.
Sure, there are bigger issues than Vipers, that's for sure. Especially on this map pool xD
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 04 2020 00:18 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:17 deacon.frost wrote:
Trap managed to win a tournament? What is he talking about? they were saying they both hypothetically could win this tournament
That doesn't make any sense though  Trap is playing the kong race and he's a kong. That's like betting soO will win. Sure, he won something, but after a while and in a zerg friendly game state.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On October 04 2020 00:20 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:18 Penev wrote:On October 04 2020 00:17 deacon.frost wrote:
Trap managed to win a tournament? What is he talking about? they were saying they both hypothetically could win this tournament That doesn't make any sense though Trap is playing the kong race and he's a kong. That's like betting soO will win. Sure, he won something, but after a while and in a zerg friendly game state.
soO did win a tournament in 2015.
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On October 04 2020 00:20 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:18 Penev wrote:On October 04 2020 00:17 deacon.frost wrote:
Trap managed to win a tournament? What is he talking about? they were saying they both hypothetically could win this tournament That doesn't make any sense though Trap is playing the kong race and he's a kong. That's like betting soO will win. Sure, he won something, but after a while and in a zerg friendly game state.
I didn't say it made sense
But tbf they were just saying that both these players are really good
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So why did maru just suicide the raven? Because he loses em all the time?
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On October 04 2020 00:18 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:17 ilax30 wrote:
Rushi also deserves a strike for saying that phrase "never basetrade a terran" that isnt the case anymore. Especially with a dt shrine and a thing called recall basetrading a terran as a toss is what they want most of the time terrans never lost their advantages in basetrades
I would say having the ability to snipe a orbital, maybe even 2 to then recall to save your main base is having the advantage. Especially as every toss has their dt shrine completed at that stage and detection becomes a problem. Hence we see tosses engage in base trades alot.
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On October 04 2020 00:23 darklycid wrote:So why did maru just suicide the raven? Because he loses em all the time?
"What good is a spellcaster gonna do me?"
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Maru smashing trap as usual
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On October 04 2020 00:23 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:20 deacon.frost wrote:On October 04 2020 00:18 Penev wrote:On October 04 2020 00:17 deacon.frost wrote:
Trap managed to win a tournament? What is he talking about? they were saying they both hypothetically could win this tournament That doesn't make any sense though Trap is playing the kong race and he's a kong. That's like betting soO will win. Sure, he won something, but after a while and in a zerg friendly game state. soO did win a tournament in 2015.
AFter what, five 2nd places? Well, but if we use this timer, Trap should win something really soon.
On October 04 2020 00:23 darklycid wrote:So why did maru just suicide the raven? Because he loses em all the time?
I think he thought that those phoenixes will eventually find it so let's get some value olut of it.
On October 04 2020 00:24 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:23 darklycid wrote:So why did maru just suicide the raven? Because he loses em all the time? "What good is a spellcaster gonna do me?"
Isn't Maru the best at ghosting?
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On October 04 2020 00:23 darklycid wrote:So why did maru just suicide the raven? Because he loses em all the time?
Against pheonixes he probably knew it was getting picked off before disables anyway. Would make more sense to harass with it as the big push happened though
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On October 04 2020 00:18 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2020 00:17 ilax30 wrote:
Rushi also deserves a strike for saying that phrase "never basetrade a terran" that isnt the case anymore. Especially with a dt shrine and a thing called recall basetrading a terran as a toss is what they want most of the time terrans never lost their advantages in basetrades
Protoss just got a bigger advantage with recall.
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EPT
