EPT$7,000 WardiTV Spring Championship - Page 10
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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sneakyfox
8218 Posts
SC2 is really just a quite small competitive scene where everyone copies one another and there isn't that much real strategical innovation. On June 14 2020 21:12 BerserkSword wrote: could be that the battery overcharge is an indirect buff to colossus based play in the early game, which is inherently defensive. especially against a timing/pushed based player like innovation. Neeb went phoenix colossus against innovation as well and won Yes, I think you're right about that. | ||
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sneakyfox
8218 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On June 14 2020 21:28 sneakyfox wrote: SC2 is strange sometimes. DT blink was introduced after the 2016 season and hasn't been changed since. In 2017, Billowy/Nightmare made our day when he blinked on a couple of tanks in the early game and won his Code S game. Only now is mass blink DT standard lategame meta in PvT, and I wouldn't even be surprised if the ability takes some kind of nerf in the future because it's considered too strong. SC2 is really just a quite small competitive scene where everyone copies one another and there isn't that much real strategical innovation. Yes, I think you're right about that. Regarding DTs - I don't think it has anything to do with lack of strategic innovation. I've heard many pros say - and I agree - that the Protoss lategame is no longer able to really stand and fight head to head with the Terran late game comp. Which led to the blink dt heavy play and protoss "guerilla warfare" if you will. This type of play is more mechanically demanding so it's no surprise it wasnt the play style of choice back when the protoss deathball was strong. | ||
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darklycid
3562 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
On June 14 2020 21:41 BerserkSword wrote: Regarding DTs - I don't think it has anything to do with lack of strategic innovation. I've heard many pros say - and I agree - that the Protoss lategame is no longer able to really stand and fight head to head with the Terran late game comp. Which led to the blink dt heavy play and protoss "guerilla warfare" if you will. This type of play is more mechanically demanding so it's no surprise it wasnt the play style of choice back when the protoss deathball was strong. So tosses dont think their lategame holds up against terrans, and terrans want to proxy and 2 base all in most of the time to avoid the latgame against toss. Interesting | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
Still he's looking really good recently. On June 14 2020 20:56 BerserkSword wrote: to be fair everyone and their mother study the Korean elite. at the pro level of play, studying a player goes a long way. No offense to Showtime, but I dont think TY studies him lol. And he has no reason to since they are in different circuits. That's a big reason bigtime offline events are a different story. Koreans are probably zoning in on the competition It was the first day on the new patch (literally when TY vs Showtime was played the patch wasn't live yet on the Korean server). TY was trying out stuff like fast armory mine drops into mech. And also learned the hard way that proxy 3 rax marine loses to a shield battery. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On June 14 2020 22:18 ilax30 wrote: So tosses dont think their lategame holds up against terrans, and terrans want to proxy and 2 base all in most of the time to avoid the latgame against toss. Interesting I think you're stuck in a bygone era. TY just gave a huge breakdown on his games with Parting, the greatest PvTer of all time, in the Code S. To summarize, he said that he was supremely confident in the lategame. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/gteqoh/gsl_ty_vs_parting_ro4_tys_review_translation_in/ Here it is if youre interested. IMO, it's not longer the case that Terran players feel like they have to end the game early unless it's on a map like obsidian. It's the fact that Terran proxies and 2 base pushes are so strong nowadays that the worst case scenario is that a terran player can macro out of it. It's such a powerful tool, why not use it? I think the batter overcharge buff is a big nod to that factor. | ||
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DiMano
Korea (South)2066 Posts
On June 14 2020 21:28 sneakyfox wrote: SC2 is strange sometimes. DT blink was introduced after the 2016 season and hasn't been changed since. In 2017, Billowy/Nightmare made our day when he blinked on a couple of tanks in the early game and won his Code S game. Only now is mass blink DT standard lategame meta in PvT, and I wouldn't even be surprised if the ability takes some kind of nerf in the future because it's considered too strong. SC2 is really just a quite small competitive scene where everyone copies one another and there isn't that much real strategical innovation. Yes, I think you're right about that. Billowy/Nightmare they are different people, NightMare was the one using this build vs GuMiho and sadly he went to HotS. Billowy still plays. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 14 2020 22:26 BerserkSword wrote: I think you're stuck in a bygone era. TY just gave a huge breakdown on his games with Parting, the greatest PvTer of all time, in the Code S. To summarize, he said that he was supremely confident in the lategame. Sadly for all that boasting TY basically avoids late game entirely anyway in TvP. Regardless of that I think a lot of Terrans still aren't actually that confident in the late game because it's kinda easy to fall apart to chargelot/DT counter attacks at the back and disruptors at the front. So they continue to play heavy pressure styles (and committed all-ins) because it bumps up their winrates. Will be interesting to see what lasting effect on the meta the battery overcharge can produce. E: Zest looking good in game 1 | ||
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sneakyfox
8218 Posts
On June 14 2020 22:33 DiMano wrote: Billowy/Nightmare they are different people, NightMare was the one using this build vs GuMiho and sadly he went to HotS. Billowy still plays. Oh, I got that mixed up, just remember Billowy used to go by another name, but I see now that that was DoKyung. | ||
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sneakyfox
8218 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On June 14 2020 22:36 Elentos wrote: Sadly for all that boasting TY basically avoids late game entirely anyway in TvP. Regardless of that I think a lot of Terrans still aren't actually that confident in the late game because it's kinda easy to fall apart to chargelot/DT counter attacks at the back and disruptors at the front. So they continue to play heavy pressure styles (and committed all-ins) because it bumps up their winrates. Will be interesting to see what lasting effect on the meta the battery overcharge can produce. E: Zest looking good in game 1 Does TY really avoid lategame in TvP though? since 2019 he's been willing to go turtle terran against protoss often, and it has worked out. I think a lot of Terran pros still stick to the heavy pressure styles because it has a higher chance of winning than simply going to the lategame like you said. I hope overcharge leads to the resurgence of defensive macro protoss players like stats. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 14 2020 22:45 BerserkSword wrote: Does TY really avoid lategame in TvP though? Well, most of his games don't go anywhere close to late game. Even against PartinG he took a lot of early game gambles. Same against Showtime in this tournament or Trap in TSL. And I think mech is a different thing compared to bio in late game since mech is kind of an off-meta gamble and doesn't really have timings before the late game anyway. The new building skins for Terran and Protoss are very pretty btw. | ||
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Elentos
55594 Posts
I also like the fact that already the overcharge is leading to people going for more multiprong. After over 2 years of most TvPs getting decided by frontal pushes one way or another, seeing more multitasking in drops and distractions etc. again like we used to have would certainly be refreshing. | ||
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sneakyfox
8218 Posts
On June 14 2020 23:12 Elentos wrote: Zest is looking great today. Really on point, very strong. I also like the fact that already the overcharge is leading to people going for more multiprong. After over 2 years of most TvPs getting decided by frontal pushes one way or another, seeing more multitasking in drops and distractions etc. again like we used to have would certainly be refreshing. That would definitely be a big improvement, there really isn't any fun in watching scv-pull number 1000 at this point. And it seems like the battery overcharge is making this change, but I don't know if the whine change is working as intended. It doesn't seem to be much of a problem for protoss to defend it so it isn't making them more cautious about expanding. And since so many causal players don't like the new whine it might be better if the change is reverted and some other way is found to keep protoss "honest" in the early game. Also, looks like we might get our first #ProtossPatch champion  | ||
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sneakyfox
8218 Posts
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kottbullar
Australia490 Posts
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Elentos
55594 Posts
On June 14 2020 23:41 sneakyfox wrote: Very strange micro from Zest there. Eating virtually every bile and not microing the Immortals with the prism. All a setup to make soO feel safe to then destroy him with the patented Zest multi-prong anti-BL timing of doom | ||
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sneakyfox
8218 Posts
On June 14 2020 23:44 Elentos wrote: All a setup to make soO feel safe to then destroy him with the patented Zest multi-prong anti-BL timing of doom It works particularly well against soO's patented leave the BLs without protection approach | ||
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