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NationWars 2019
Saturday, Nov 30 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
Sunday, Dec 01 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
StarCraft II: NationWars 2019Stream: Twitch
Saturday:
Italy vs Mexico
Finland vs USA
Sunday:
South Korea vs Canada
Germany vs France
[NationWars 2019] Ro8
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
NationWars 2019 Saturday, Nov 30 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) Sunday, Dec 01 6:00pm GMT (GMT+00:00) StarCraft II: NationWars 2019Stream: Twitch Saturday: Italy vs Mexico Finland vs USA Sunday: South Korea vs Canada Germany vs France | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 01 2019 03:18 Elentos wrote: Pandemona sleeping on the job again. Yeah, we're going to have to make do with this half-assed temp worker again :/ | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On December 01 2019 03:25 Elentos wrote: Not sure Mexico has enough lives to beat Reynor twice. I'm doubting once, actually. They have special | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
If he's specifically practiced his ass off to beat Reynor sure, Mexico could win. On average I'd call Reynor 2-0 Special though. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On December 01 2019 03:33 Elentos wrote: If he's specifically practiced his ass off to beat Reynor sure, Mexico could win. On average I'd call Reynor 2-0 Special though. Yea. Special is no slouch at studying the meta and his opponents especially tvp and tvz New patch too. I think special takes this. | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 01 2019 04:17 sneakyfox wrote: Special v Reynor, really hoping this will be close and we get some fun games. Get ready for TY plays with Dorito execution | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 01 2019 04:20 Elentos wrote: Get ready for TY plays with Dorito execution I dunno it kinda looks like uThermal so far  | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 01 2019 04:28 sneakyfox wrote: Feels like Special has had a decent game but still he is just falling further and further behind. Ling counters just too stronk. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
Why dont they keep 8 or so marines back at home like hots? +5 baneling hp? | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 01 2019 04:44 royalroadweed wrote: Why dont they keep 8 or so marines back at home like hots? +5 baneling hp? Not like 8 marines can defend a 30 ling runby. In HotS the only player who did ling runbys was Life. Everyone else counter attacked with mutas. And every counter attack was a decision that could lose you the game. Nowadays if they see you leaving your side of the map they just send lings in because it's not gonna lose them the game and best case it loses you the game. It's not even a real decision. | ||
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Gina
241 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 01 2019 05:03 Elentos wrote: Zhuge vs MCanning, battle of the hype men New format? Match decided by interviews? | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Azhrak
Finland1194 Posts
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TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
Edit: Should also work for spores, right? | ||
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JJH777
United States4378 Posts
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darklycid
3377 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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ilax30
720 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15881 Posts
On December 01 2019 05:56 TheOneAboveU wrote: Where's the research for SHROUD to protect the queens? :D Edit: Should also work for spores, right? Patchzerg Serral doesn't want to reveal imba SHROUDs before the next important tournament. | ||
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Lucasmus
35 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On December 01 2019 06:02 darklycid wrote: So much for neebs lategame Wouldn't be surprised if Showtime has a better late game than Neeb anyway, he's the guy that has always aimed for long games since forever. | ||
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
On December 01 2019 06:12 HolydaKing wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if Showtime has a better late game than Neeb anyway, he's the guy that has always aimed for long games since forever. That Serral vs ShoWTimE match last year was awesome during Nation Wars V. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 01 2019 06:05 Lucasmus wrote: NP feels a bit OP to me. Zerg already has abduct and parasitic bomb, how many control does protoss have in return? It's just not a fun spell, it doesn't make for interesting interactions. And yeah together with abduct Zerg has too many snipe-big-unit capabilities. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 01 2019 06:25 Aeromi wrote: That Serral vs ShoWTimE match last year was awesome during Nation Wars V. The end of it anyway. Let's not talk about those 40 minutes in-between. | ||
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darklycid
3377 Posts
On December 01 2019 06:33 Elentos wrote: The end of it anyway. Let's not talk about those 40 minutes in-between. I liked ShoWTimE demonstrating how to destroy lurker pushes on neon violet | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
Played like a beast vs Dark. IMO he outplayed dark in blizzcon, which is really something (i think he lost due to balance issues) considering Blizzcon dark was a monster Then eviscerated serral in lategame PvZ....when even a macro legend like Zest and PvZ god like Neeb couldnt I hope showtime can ascend in 2020. he's one of my favorite players in general sucks that America got rekt tho | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
On December 01 2019 14:09 BerserkSword wrote: I have to say this just makes showtime's showings since blizzcon extremely impressive. Played like a beast vs Dark. IMO he outplayed dark in blizzcon, which is really something (i think he lost due to balance issues) considering Blizzcon dark was a monster Then eviscerated serral in lategame PvZ....when even a macro legend like Zest and PvZ god like Neeb couldnt I hope showtime can ascend in 2020. he's one of my favorite players in general sucks that America got rekt tho Macro Legend Zest? I gues you meant micro But yeah, Showtime is looking super strong right now. Good for us tonight, probably less good for France :D | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 01 2019 17:52 dbRic1203 wrote: Macro Legend Zest? I gues you meant micro But yeah, Showtime is looking super strong right now. Good for us tonight, probably less good for France :D Oh Zest macro is legendary indeed | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On December 01 2019 17:52 dbRic1203 wrote: Macro Legend Zest? I gues you meant micro But yeah, Showtime is looking super strong right now. Good for us tonight, probably less good for France :D Nah Zest's macro, especially PvZ macro was beast in his prime like 2014/2015. Only like rain and zest were macroing effectively in PvZ during that time. It took a complete nosedive for whatever reason and now it's the complete opposite. Zest went from one of the best "standard" /big picture/macro protosses with really good decision making to the 2018-current reckless zest with weak macro and poor decision making. It's pretty fascinating tbh | ||
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Topin
Peru10044 Posts
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
And he even rebuilt it in the same bloody location. Unbelievable. On December 02 2019 03:43 Poopi wrote: 96scv wtf :o TY impression from INno? Everybody wants to play like TY these days. Tbh it's pretty much standard late game mech. | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 03:40 sneakyfox wrote: Missed the first game. Did Stats die to classic NoRegret cheese? Hydra/bane all-in (slow banes that is) on 50-ish workers. I don't know what Stats expected. | ||
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RandomPlayer
Russian Federation385 Posts
It would be great if he tried to use English accent instead of saying English words in french accent.. It kinda hurts ears tbh. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7099 Posts
On December 02 2019 03:56 RandomPlayer wrote: Can someone tell that caster (the one with a beard, don't know his name) that you're not supposed to say "really really huge" or "super super clutch" because those adjectives already mean that. It would be great if he tried to use English accent instead of saying English words in french accent.. It kinda hurts ears tbh. "Someone tell the french guy to stop sounding French". | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 03:56 RandomPlayer wrote: It would be great if he tried to use English accent instead of saying English words in french accent.. It kinda hurts ears tbh. Please for the love of everything anyone in the world holds dear, tell me this was a joke. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 02 2019 03:56 RandomPlayer wrote: Can someone tell that caster (the one with a beard, don't know his name) that you're not supposed to say "really really huge" or "super super clutch" because those adjectives already mean that. It would be great if he tried to use English accent instead of saying English words in french accent.. It kinda hurts ears tbh. People really do complain about everything. Besides 'huge' is a gradable adjective I think so I'm not sure you're even right. Or maybe huge isn't gradable and 'big' is? | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:01 ZigguratOfUr wrote: People really do complain about everything. Besides 'huge' is a gradable adjective I think so I'm not sure you're even right. Or maybe huge isn't gradable and 'big' is? I would refer you to a dictionary which in fact does list huger and hugest. But we all know dictionaries don't hold any authority on the meaning of words. | ||
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RandomPlayer
Russian Federation385 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:04 RandomPlayer wrote: I'm just saying that I'm not enjoying his commentary and it can be improved, no hatred. How else can we provide feedback "You're sounding too French, sound more English" is hardly feedback Funka needs. Now we get to see Noregret vs Korea. | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:04 RandomPlayer wrote: I'm just saying that I'm not enjoying his commentary and it can be improved, no hatred. How else can we provide feedback You can watch the french stream, they are speaking french with french accent so it's all good | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:15 Elentos wrote: I don't know how this happens every year but the fan vote always ends up giving Innovation a team where he has to do everything himself. He's just trying to solidify his position as the greatest teamleague player if stuchiu ever writes another article about that. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
If both France / SK lose I have noone left to cheer for in ro4  | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:22 Poopi wrote: I want France - SK in ro4 so get your shit together SK! If both France / SK lose I have noone left to cheer for in ro4 I'll be more confident for the France-Germany in Euro 2020 than this one. | ||
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RandomPlayer
Russian Federation385 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:24 Boucot wrote: I'll be more confident for the France-Germany in Euro 2020 than this one. Well we are world champion and Germany ain't as good anymore are they? :o We have a shot against Germany but it'll be tough for sure, HeroMarine looked off in HSC and only ShoWTimE should be super difficult. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:25 ZigguratOfUr wrote: And it's not even like the Koreans might not know how NoRegreT plays and can believe in the possibility of a macro game (unlike say Maru vs Meomaika). My thought exactly | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:25 ZigguratOfUr wrote: And it's not even like the Koreans might not know how NoRegreT plays and can believe in the possibility of a macro game (unlike say Maru vs Meomaika). That Maru one is funny tbh. I think that literally only happened because Maru's MMR is too high to hit Meomaika often on ladder. TY always streams with lower MMR accounts and he knows exactly that Meomaika always cheeses. | ||
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stilt
France2746 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:26 sneakyfox wrote: The pride of Korea Objection your honor, this probably doesn't even qualify as C team. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:27 Elentos wrote: That Maru one is funny tbh. I think that literally only happened because Maru's MMR is too high to hit Meomaika often on ladder. TY always streams with lower MMR accounts and he knows exactly that Meomaika always cheeses. I don't feel like Maru remembers who foreigners are at WESG regardless of whether he might have played them on ladder. | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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stilt
France2746 Posts
Noregret must be revive | ||
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JohnMatrix
France1355 Posts
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darklycid
3377 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Hope SK wins now though | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:28 Elentos wrote: Objection your honor, this probably doesn't even qualify as C team. Yeah but if this is the team Korea picked they're going to have to stand by it | ||
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NoS-Craig
Australia3093 Posts
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Pentarp
210 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:33 JohnMatrix wrote: what did i watch ! Drone micro vs no drone micro. | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:34 sneakyfox wrote: Yeah but if this is the team Korea picked they're going to have to stand by it It's the team we picked for them really Though I suppose Inno was the best Terran in the poll. Sad enough. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:35 sneakyfox wrote: So if NoRegret takes it home for Canada does that mean we all have to eat a shoe? At Memes and Dreams 2 after the return of the Anonymous weekly cup. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:34 Elentos wrote: It's the team we picked for them really Though I suppose Inno was the best Terran in the poll. Sad enough. It's the team we picked out of those who made themselves eligible. | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2429 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2429 Posts
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stilt
France2746 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:41 Elentos wrote: IEM Katowice feels even further away due to the fact that it was the last time this year soO has had any semblance of form. Tbf he didn't look really look that impressive either. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Shit | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:49 sneakyfox wrote: Ha ha they actually send out online Stats Inexplicable choice for sure. Stats is probably gonna expect an honorable macro game and lose to some all-in. | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:49 swarminfestor wrote: Is it going to be the first time South Korea lost before reaching the final? It's definitely the first time SK would be the underdog in the finals. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:05 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I miss the old patch rofl | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:06 royalroadweed wrote: Korea holds. Looked very mortal tho. They'll be stronger offline. Since I'll be at the viewing party I really really hope France manages to win, SK - France into Serral would be so fucking cool to watch live | ||
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:07 Poopi wrote: They'll be stronger offline. Since I'll be at the viewing party I really really hope France manages to win, SK - France into Serral would be so fucking cool to watch live See you there. | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Yeah it's amazing you managed to organize something | ||
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
Germany is also a team of macro players. Like I'm pretty sure Showtime is the most aggressive player on our team. | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:10 Elentos wrote: Germany is also a team of macro players. Like I'm pretty sure Showtime is the most aggressive player on our team. Yeah I guess if you win it will really depends on which HeroMarine shows up. He was hella strong at BlizzCon but kinda weak at HSC (apparently he got sick or something so couldn't really practice the new patch). But INno will be the player to beat for anyone here  | ||
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dbRic1203
Germany2655 Posts
Time to crush some french dreams right here | ||
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stilt
France2746 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:27 stilt wrote: Don't know why, I want to root for the german boys Big Gabe has that effect on many people | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55459 Posts
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Go Drogo and MLord if we 3-0 we can win | ||
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Elentos
55459 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:37 sneakyfox wrote: Pretty much a trainwreck for Lambo Nothing short of an actual disaster. Though if I had to pick a weakest link on Team Germany it would have always been Lambo tbh. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:43 Elentos wrote: Nothing short of an actual disaster. Though if I had to pick a weakest link on Team Germany it would have always been Lambo tbh. Can't disagree with that. And Showtime looks really good lately, and if Heromarine plays well he is arguably the best foreigner Terran with Special. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:45 sneakyfox wrote: Can't disagree with that. And Showtime looks really good lately, and if Heromarine plays well he is arguably the best foreigner Terran with Special. Lambo is not the same player that he was in 2018. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
And let's see if the new glaive upgrade is as much worse as everyone has been saying. | ||
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Slydie
1913 Posts
IK it was an oddball all in. | ||
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stilt
France2746 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:30 sneakyfox wrote: Big Gabe has that effect on many people I am more a fan of the waterslide champ | ||
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Obamarauder
697 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:56 Slydie wrote: Lol! First use if new glaive in a pro match? Worked pretty well that time, and I feel great arguing with BeastyQT builds and executions like that would be possible. IK it was an oddball all in. well they made a unit that has niche use for allins and harass even more allin and harass-based. not sure if thats the way to "balance" a race | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:56 Slydie wrote: Lol! First use if new glaive in a pro match? Worked pretty well that time, and I feel great arguing with BeastyQT builds and executions like that would be possible. IK it was an oddball all in. It does look much better in PvP where you do more straight up fighting with adepts then in PvZ where you want to threaten to bounce from mineral line to mineral line. | ||
Waxangel
United States33211 Posts
On December 02 2019 04:28 Elentos wrote: Objection your honor, this probably doesn't even qualify as C team. It's some ex post facto shit to declare this the C-team after seeing matches. Most people woulda called this a solid B/B+ team headed into the tournament | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Slydie
1913 Posts
On December 02 2019 05:58 Obamarauder wrote: well they made a unit that has niche use for allins and harass even more allin and harass-based. not sure if thats the way to "balance" a race I think their idea was to differentiate the 2 units more, and I am fine with that as Zealots and Adepts always had overlapping roles. | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Fuck yeah! We can do it | ||
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
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TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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JohnMatrix
France1355 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On December 02 2019 06:28 royalroadweed wrote: Clem hitting the germans with timings they didnt expect. It's pretty much WWII in reverse | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
Also, not sure Ogaming team can really handle more France wins | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
Our line-up this year is insane, and since it's the new patch we might even have a shot against Finland/Italy if we manage to beat South Korea. Plus I'll cheer for Korea if we lose so this semi finals is a win win | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Supter
France382 Posts
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Slydie
1913 Posts
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Slydie
1913 Posts
On December 02 2019 06:41 Supter wrote: A few months from now Clem will be the undisputed second best foreign terran. He's improving so much so fast. Is Special even undisputably better right now? In TvP, Special is almost certainly worse, and they went out in the same round in HSC, Special with the easier matchup. | ||
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Poopi
France12761 Posts
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On December 02 2019 06:53 royalroadweed wrote: He's 17? looks way younger. Reminds me of a french maru. Clem is 7 yo, I got banned from Twitch Chat because I revealed this shocking truth  And he is taller than Maru, almost certainly! | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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ThunderJunk
United States671 Posts
On December 02 2019 06:46 Slydie wrote: Is Special even undisputably better right now? In TvP, Special is almost certainly worse, and they went out in the same round in HSC, Special with the easier matchup. I can't think of a Terran in the American continent that comes close. If one exists, please inform me. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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TheOneAboveU
Germany3367 Posts
Really feel like we are always punching under our weight at these Nation Wars. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6818 Posts
On a related note, we just got drawn into a group with France and CR7 in the Euros 2020. Brutal group F death | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24430 Posts
On December 02 2019 06:46 Slydie wrote: Is Special even undisputably better right now? In TvP, Special is almost certainly worse, and they went out in the same round in HSC, Special with the easier matchup. I think Clem hasn’t had that breakout tournament just yet to put him ahead of Special or HeRoMaRinE quite just yet, but he’s definitely got the potential to outstrip them. Special is a pretty damn good preparation player though, I’d give him the edge over the rest of the foreign field in scenarios where that comes into play. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
The same special that has been eliminating guys like sos, neeb, parting etc all year? The one that classic wouldn’t draft into his code s group? Special is one of the best tvpers in the world imo. He hates Protoss with such a passion that he’s now quite the tvp beast lol. It’s the only matchup I see special punching above his weight | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24430 Posts
On December 02 2019 22:24 BerserkSword wrote: Special worse than Clem in TvP? The same special that has been eliminating guys like sos, neeb, parting etc all year? The one that classic wouldn’t draft into his code s group? Special is one of the best tvpers in the world imo. He hates Protoss with such a passion that he’s now quite the tvp beast lol. It’s the only matchup I see special punching above his weight This tends to happen if he has some prep time and in those scenarios he is indeed a beast. If we did a marathon run where Special and Clem have to play 10 TvPs vs a series of blind opponents I’m not sure Special does much better than Clem, if at all. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6818 Posts
And ofc the next iteration of Serral vs Reynor. Somehow I don't get tired of these two battling it out (yet). | ||
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Slydie
1913 Posts
On December 02 2019 22:40 Wombat_NI wrote: This tends to happen if he has some prep time and in those scenarios he is indeed a beast. If we did a marathon run where Special and Clem have to play 10 TvPs vs a series of blind opponents I’m not sure Special does much better than Clem, if at all. Also check out Clem vs MaNa from Nationwars. Great game I will be very disappointed if does not make it to "best games of the month." MaNa is no slouch and showed he is in great shape at HSC a week later. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On December 02 2019 22:40 Wombat_NI wrote: This tends to happen if he has some prep time and in those scenarios he is indeed a beast. If we did a marathon run where Special and Clem have to play 10 TvPs vs a series of blind opponents I’m not sure Special does much better than Clem, if at all. i know clem is like 7k mmr on EU ladder or something, but special even has better weekender TvP than clem. Special overall just has better tournament TvP than clem which, imo, means his TvP is better. idk i personally just place tournament ability over ladder ability. Special's TvP is very impressive. | ||
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Aeromi
France14456 Posts
On December 02 2019 22:49 Harris1st wrote: Really curious how France will play against Korea. Hometeam vs jetlagged Koreans should be equalizing if not favoring France. And ofc the next iteration of Serral vs Reynor. Somehow I don't get tired of these two battling it out (yet). Korean players will have 4 days to fight against the jetlag, it should be ok for them. | ||
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