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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On June 05 2019 21:08 Anc13nt wrote: if Inno doesn't make Blizzcon again that would suck What will suck more is that we are probably getting 5/8 Protoss at Blizzcon. Dark and soO are locked in, but for another Zerg to do it they would probably need to win Season 3 or get a miracle run in the remaining tournaments. Gumiho might get surpassed by Parting soon, and then he and Inno will really need something special to get in too. | ||
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Moonerz
United States461 Posts
Inno v Trap was super close, could have gone either way. Warp prism looking super strong as always and the harass really dictated the series. Terran really can't afford to let those in and get a full warp in round. Feel like in general Terran doesn't have the leeway to make as many mistakes as protoss. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On June 06 2019 00:10 Morbidius wrote: What will suck more is that we are probably getting 5/8 Protoss at Blizzcon. Dark and soO are locked in, but for another Zerg to do it they would probably need to win Season 3 or get a miracle run in the remaining tournaments. Gumiho might get surpassed by Parting soon, and then he and Inno will really need something special to get in too. Either Hurricane or PartinG will necessarily surpass Gumiho, but he could still be in a good spot to make BlizzCon if he puts up good results again. GSL sent four Protoss already in 2016 and 2018, and Korean Protoss were always the relative majority at BlizzCon with the only exceptions being 2017(GSL sent two) and 2013(there were eight Terran). | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On June 05 2019 05:50 AzAlexZ wrote:  Classic 3:1  soOTrap 3:2  INnoVationAlthough Trap vs Inno could go both ways, so I wouldn't be surprised if any of the two takes it XD | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary487 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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franzji
United States583 Posts
Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft. Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3. Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot. | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4146 Posts
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NbaLover
24 Posts
On June 06 2019 04:00 youngjiddle wrote: Honestly, I'm just sad that players like Classic and Trap don't get credit for their wins. Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft. Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3. Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot. That's the current mindset of the Protoss haters / Terran whiners. Any non bias fan can see that currently Classic is the best player in Korea, but since he plays Protoss he will never get that respect. Inno has always been average in TVP, but easier to blame Trap and "PROTOSSED" rather than admitting Inno didn't play well in G5 where he stacked 4 libs into storm | ||
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Moonerz
United States461 Posts
On June 06 2019 06:09 NbaLover wrote: That's the current mindset of the Protoss haters / Terran whiners. Any non bias fan can see that currently Classic is the best player in Korea, but since he plays Protoss he will never get that respect. Inno has always been average in TVP, but easier to blame Trap and "PROTOSSED" rather than admitting Inno didn't play well in G5 where he stacked 4 libs into storm Basically everyone says Classic is the best player atm. Hes the favorite to win the tournament.... | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On June 06 2019 06:47 Moonerz wrote: Basically everyone says Classic is the best player atm. Hes the favorite to win the tournament.... But that doesn't fit his story about whiners  | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On June 06 2019 02:09 kajtarp wrote: I would like to blame balance, because i think Immortals and prisms are a bit op, but why on earth is soO not researching overlord speed? Hes so bad with the scouting almost every time with his slowass overlords... You should go watch In-Dept episode(s) about robo opening vs zerg, they talked a lot about the pro and cons of getting overlord speed. Basically the con was that the 100 gas can in certain scenario make it impossible to defend some attack so maybe it's better to have sub part scouting but make a guts call with what you saw than invest 100 gas to scout what's gonna kill you. They explained it with way more details than me | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On June 06 2019 06:09 NbaLover wrote: That's the current mindset of the Protoss haters / Terran whiners. Any non bias fan can see that currently Classic is the best player in Korea, but since he plays Protoss he will never get that respect. Inno has always been average in TVP, but easier to blame Trap and "PROTOSSED" rather than admitting Inno didn't play well in G5 where he stacked 4 libs into storm To be honest, I'm not convinced that Classic is the best player in Korea; he is the most consistent and he is having the best results, for sure. | ||
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IshinShishi
Japan6156 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26572 Posts
On June 06 2019 06:52 Nakajin wrote: You should go watch In-Dept episode(s) about robo opening vs zerg, they talked a lot about the pro and cons of getting overlord speed. Basically the con was that the 100 gas can in certain scenario make it impossible to defend some attack so maybe it's better to have sub part scouting but make a guts call with what you saw than invest 100 gas to scout what's gonna kill you. They explained it with way more details than me I think NoRegret said ‘you just get to see what is about to kill you a little before it does’ or something like that. Some of the speedier timings hit before you can get your speed ovies in and react to that information, as you say. It definitely does look useful for sniffing out some other builds or ones that hit a bit later, as shown in some other games from that In Depth episode. Perhaps Zergs will figure out some kind of scouting flow chart that works for them, I can’t really figure out a way for the. To reliably do it though. I’d personally like to see slightly faster base speed for overlords, not by a huge amount but how many times do they just miss the scout barely? Zerg need a stock unit that isn’t hard countered by Protoss as hard in that phase of the game. I mean they don’t need anything, those are my personal preferences but I think PvZ is by a distance the worst matchup in the game because of hard counters. It’s a matchup where (almost always) Protoss tries to disguise or fake out some funky all in, then the Zerg has to figure a response, if they pick wrong they die pretty hard, if they pick right they usually win pretty hard. Banes can shred Protoss melee, but are terrible if it’s actually a sentry heavy push, Roaches do well enough against melee but get shredded by Immortals. Hydras are decent but you usually don’t have enough units if it’s a real early push. But if you misread and don’t tech to hydras and go roach heavy Immortals destroy you. Much respect to Classic for some really crisp and smart builds for sure, but the matchup really isn’t in a satisfying place for me as a viewer. It usually comes down to a single push, and I’m not a soothsayer but I’ve watched enough Starcraft to know before the push even hits who is going to win, about 90% of the time. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On June 06 2019 07:21 Wombat_NI wrote: I think NoRegret said ‘you just get to see what is about to kill you a little before it does’ or something like that. Some of the speedier timings hit before you can get your speed ovies in and react to that information, as you say. It definitely does look useful for sniffing out some other builds or ones that hit a bit later, as shown in some other games from that In Depth episode. Perhaps Zergs will figure out some kind of scouting flow chart that works for them, I can’t really figure out a way for the. To reliably do it though. I’d personally like to see slightly faster base speed for overlords, not by a huge amount but how many times do they just miss the scout barely? Zerg need a stock unit that isn’t hard countered by Protoss as hard in that phase of the game. I mean they don’t need anything, those are my personal preferences but I think PvZ is by a distance the worst matchup in the game because of hard counters. It’s a matchup where (almost always) Protoss tries to disguise or fake out some funky all in, then the Zerg has to figure a response, if they pick wrong they die pretty hard, if they pick right they usually win pretty hard. Banes can shred Protoss melee, but are terrible if it’s actually a sentry heavy push, Roaches do well enough against melee but get shredded by Immortals. Hydras are decent but you usually don’t have enough units if it’s a real early push. But if you misread and don’t tech to hydras and go roach heavy Immortals destroy you. Much respect to Classic for some really crisp and smart builds for sure, but the matchup really isn’t in a satisfying place for me as a viewer. It usually comes down to a single push, and I’m not a soothsayer but I’ve watched enough Starcraft to know before the push even hits who is going to win, about 90% of the time. The matchup was much more enjoyable before 2019(Nyduses first and Immortal pushes this last patch made TvZ a cheese/all in fest). | ||
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NbaLover
24 Posts
On June 06 2019 06:53 Xain0n wrote: To be honest, I'm not convinced that Classic is the best player in Korea; he is the most consistent and he is having the best results, for sure. Based on 2019 result and current form, we can only assume he is the "currently" the best at this very moment. Dark is a close 2nd for me. We all know he is great and consistent but god damn it I just want him to start winning something instead of all these Top 4, Top 2 finishes. Such a fun trash talking personality. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26572 Posts
On June 06 2019 04:00 youngjiddle wrote: Honestly, I'm just sad that players like Classic and Trap don't get credit for their wins. Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft. Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3. Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot. Would be nice yeah. Classic against soO wasn’t enjoyable, but I found it an admirable series for the reasons you said. Trap Inno were pretty good macro PvT games and pretty back and forth too Trap’s hold and counter was great play in game 5, I would have brought my prism and those units back to hold, but he made a great call, held narrowly and did a lot of counter damage. I’m not sure if people are unaware at this stage or just wilfully ignore how hard Protoss lategame armies are to control and split in PvT, but yeah the chats will just be full of ‘A move Protoss’ | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26572 Posts
On June 06 2019 07:27 Xain0n wrote: The matchup was much more enjoyable before 2019(Nyduses first and Immortal pushes this last patch made TvZ a cheese/all in fest). It absolutely sucks to my tastes anyway, I think PvZ on balance has been my most disliked matchup for most of SC2, bar some small periods. I’ve only seen real top level games of the game last patch, it many aside from that, actually quite liked the state of the matchup there. Ok so maybe Serral v Stats etc are a small sample size where I haven’t maybe seen games below that level and what they looked like, seemed pretty decent. Maybe it lead to many terrible games too in other tournies I haven’t seen. | ||
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