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[GSL 2019] Season 2 - Quarterfinals Day 1

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
June 04 2019 07:45 GMT
#1

GSL Season 2


Wednesday, Jun 05 9:30am GMT (GMT+00:00)

(Wiki)2019 Global StarCraft II League Season 2/Code S

Streams & Casters


uk Twitch GSL | uk Afreeca

Artosis - Tasteless

Format

  • Quarterfinals: Single-elimination playoffs.
  • Quarterfinals: Bo5.
  • Semifinals: Bo7.
  • All 4 players who make it to this round are seeded in next season's Code S.
  • Finals: Bo7.

Map Pool



Quarterfinals


[image loading] [image loading]
(P)Classic vs (Z)soO
[image loading] [image loading]
(P)Trap vs (T)INnoVation


Results


+ Show Spoiler [Bracket] +




CSS: FO-nTTaX
Awesomeness: Panda
Banner: GSL
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51485 Posts
June 04 2019 07:46 GMT
#2
Poll: Classic vs soO

Classic Wins (37)
 
58%

soO Wins (27)
 
42%

64 total votes

Your vote: Classic vs soO

(Vote): Classic Wins
(Vote): soO Wins


Poll: Trap vs INnoVation

INnoVation Wins (46)
 
65%

Trap Wins (25)
 
35%

71 total votes

Your vote: Trap vs INnoVation

(Vote): Trap Wins
(Vote): INnoVation Wins

ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
pvsnp
Profile Joined January 2017
7676 Posts
June 04 2019 08:17 GMT
#3
Expecting some close games. Maybe a slight edge to Classic and Inno.
Denominator of the Universe
TL+ Member
HolydaKing
Profile Joined February 2010
21254 Posts
June 04 2019 08:19 GMT
#4
Probably Classic + Inno, hoping for soO and Inno though.
RatzBarcode
Profile Joined December 2013
United States98 Posts
June 04 2019 09:35 GMT
#5
Classic has some really sharp PvZ builds and hid a bunch of tech last time in the playoffs against Zerg. Soo has been like all cheese this GSL.

Innovation and being knocked out by a slightly inferior protoss, name a more iconic duo. I say this as a huge fan.
noise.harvester
Profile Joined September 2017
9 Posts
June 04 2019 17:01 GMT
#6
My heart says soo but my mind says classic
dysenterymd
Profile Joined January 2019
1237 Posts
June 04 2019 18:20 GMT
#7
Torn between wanting Classic to win another GSL before retirement and a season 3 clash between Inno and Maru for first to five Code S titles.
Serral | Inno | sOs | soO | Has | Classic
`
Profile Joined April 2019
1 Post
June 04 2019 18:20 GMT
#8
I'm betting on Classic to win 3-1, only dropping one game after soO scouts his robo and counters his early immo push out on the map.

I think Trap wins by stopping INnoVation's tutu push in the fifth game. I really hope I'm wrong and we see INno use some fresh, planned out strategies to counter Trap instead of resorting to his weekender/ladder hero 80+% TvP push.
JJH777
Profile Joined January 2011
United States4408 Posts
June 04 2019 18:44 GMT
#9
I'm shocked Innovation is favored in the voting. I'm sure Maru is doing a better version of Innovations TvP push against Trap a bunch of times a day to get him ready for this match. Stats already had it held with just a few less control errors. Trap isn't going to lose to that. In my opinion Innovations only shot is bringing something new which isn't really his specialty. Especially not with only 5 days to prep.
mierin
Profile Joined August 2010
United States4943 Posts
June 04 2019 20:09 GMT
#10
Here's hoping Soo wins! Don't care either way about the other one.
JD, Stork, Calm, Hyuk Fighting!
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-04 22:09:06
June 04 2019 20:50 GMT
#11
(P)Classic 3:1 (Z)soO
(P)Trap 3:2 (T)INnoVation

Although Trap vs Inno could go both ways, so I wouldn't be surprised if any of the two takes it
Faker is the GOAT!
Plebsmeister
Profile Joined February 2019
15 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-04 21:44:44
June 04 2019 21:44 GMT
#12
looking like free ticket to semis for classic
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
June 04 2019 22:06 GMT
#13
(P)Classic 0-3 (Z)soO
(P)Trap 3-1 (T)Bogus
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
easyway6
Profile Joined November 2015
8 Posts
June 04 2019 23:30 GMT
#14
its going to be tough. my picks are (Z)soO and (T)INnoVation. cant wait 11 hours to go........
BerserkSword
Profile Joined December 2018
United States2123 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 03:33:04
June 05 2019 03:32 GMT
#15
On June 05 2019 03:44 JJH777 wrote:
I'm shocked Innovation is favored in the voting. I'm sure Maru is doing a better version of Innovations TvP push against Trap a bunch of times a day to get him ready for this match. Stats already had it held with just a few less control errors. Trap isn't going to lose to that. In my opinion Innovations only shot is bringing something new which isn't really his specialty. Especially not with only 5 days to prep.


Why do you think Maru is doing a better version of Innovation's push?

Innovation's two base timings are ridiculously strong recently. In fact he's been destroying maru himself with timings (obviously a different matchup, but it's obvious that innovation has a really good grasp on timings. something is really clicking for him if he regularly beats guys like stats and maru with them)

Maru's TvP shines in his early aggression + ability to macro. Innovation seems to eclipse him when it comes to these timing pushes though.

TL+ Member
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 04:11 GMT
#16
On June 05 2019 07:06 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:

(P)Trap 3-1 (T)Bogus

the terran dominion demand you to come with us for alleged treason
do you have any word to say sir ?
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 04:41 GMT
#17
I need terminator mode inno today
~~~~~
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
June 05 2019 09:20 GMT
#18
Alright guy, things I would like to see:

- Carriers
- Cobalt x2
- Mech v Protoss
- Maxpax
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
ByuuN
Profile Joined November 2016
Poland678 Posts
June 05 2019 09:36 GMT
#19
GSL qualification should give you extra year before military so we won`t lose pros.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
June 05 2019 09:37 GMT
#20
Hahahaha those videos are amazing
StabiloBoss20
Profile Joined July 2015
313 Posts
June 05 2019 09:38 GMT
#21
Heart: soO
Head: Classic

Heart: Not sure
Head: Innovation
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 09:39:52
June 05 2019 09:38 GMT
#22
On June 05 2019 18:38 StabiloBoss20 wrote:
Heart: soO
Head: Classic

Heart: Not sure
Head: Innovation


Trap would be awesome to see win but only if he makes it to the finals.

This is like the fifth time Classic has been the "hottest player in the world" and all the previous times he's always failed in the finals. will history repeat himself?
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3116 Posts
June 05 2019 09:45 GMT
#23
Holy hell that was a drone massacre.
Artosis loves Starcraft
Plebsmeister
Profile Joined February 2019
15 Posts
June 05 2019 09:46 GMT
#24
if soo dont g some crazy cheese builds it will be fast 3-0 classic
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
June 05 2019 09:47 GMT
#25
41 drones killed ....
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
June 05 2019 09:55 GMT
#26
I wonder when Blizzard will patch this ballshit race. It's fucking crazy. Zerg has no way to scout this. There are so many options Protoss can go, it's not possible to prevent this. Also on the other hand Zerg is sooo easily scouted and so easy to prepare for P... 2 base immortal ballshit . Blizz plz

User was temp banned for this post.
Ultima Ratio Regum
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
June 05 2019 09:56 GMT
#27
Is Classic just going to do timings the entire time?
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 09:56 GMT
#28
either full on defend the push or don't

fun
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 09:56 GMT
#29
what cheese is next
~~~~~
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
June 05 2019 09:56 GMT
#30
a bit lame this bo5. Why korean pros refuse to macro?
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
June 05 2019 09:56 GMT
#31
Thank god soO held that.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 09:57:38
June 05 2019 09:56 GMT
#32
Seems like Zergs are quite used to defending Margaery already
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3116 Posts
June 05 2019 09:57 GMT
#33
1-1 SoO evens it up. He did a great job with that intel his overlord got.
Artosis loves Starcraft
NExt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1651 Posts
June 05 2019 09:57 GMT
#34
Well read by soO
Waiting for Protoss Jesus
NotSoHappy
Profile Joined November 2010
445 Posts
June 05 2019 09:57 GMT
#35
"why korean pros refuse to macro?"

welcome to protoss
darklycid
Profile Joined May 2014
3511 Posts
June 05 2019 09:57 GMT
#36
On June 05 2019 18:56 Argonauta wrote:
a bit lame this bo5. Why korean pros refuse to macro?

Ever Seen PvZ lategame (or Played it?)
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 09:58 GMT
#37
On June 05 2019 18:56 Argonauta wrote:
a bit lame this bo5. Why korean pros refuse to macro?

Because no protoss wants to play PvZ lategame. Much better chance to win with almost any allin
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 09:58 GMT
#38
On June 05 2019 18:56 Argonauta wrote:
a bit lame this bo5. Why korean pros refuse to macro?

Because zerg lategame is bonkers
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
June 05 2019 09:58 GMT
#39
On June 05 2019 18:57 darklycid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 18:56 Argonauta wrote:
a bit lame this bo5. Why korean pros refuse to macro?

Ever Seen PvZ lategame (or Played it?)



ofc, much more interesting and dynamic
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
StabiloBoss20
Profile Joined July 2015
313 Posts
June 05 2019 09:58 GMT
#40
that wasn't margaery... that build was pretty off.
darklycid
Profile Joined May 2014
3511 Posts
June 05 2019 09:58 GMT
#41
On June 05 2019 18:58 Argonauta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 18:57 darklycid wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:56 Argonauta wrote:
a bit lame this bo5. Why korean pros refuse to macro?

Ever Seen PvZ lategame (or Played it?)



ofc, much more interesting and dynamic

What lategame are you playing 0.o.
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 09:59 GMT
#42
Oh man that pool placement... pretty unfortunate
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
June 05 2019 09:59 GMT
#43
Literally what a joke series from classic.
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
June 05 2019 09:59 GMT
#44
bruhhhhh game quality has been garbage this gsl season no? i feel like this series is representative for well over half the games ive tuned into
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
NotSoHappy
Profile Joined November 2010
445 Posts
June 05 2019 09:59 GMT
#45
On June 05 2019 18:59 Pandain wrote:
Literally what a joke series from classic.


you wrote "smart play" wrong
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
June 05 2019 09:59 GMT
#46
On June 05 2019 18:58 darklycid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 18:58 Argonauta wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:57 darklycid wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:56 Argonauta wrote:
a bit lame this bo5. Why korean pros refuse to macro?

Ever Seen PvZ lategame (or Played it?)



ofc, much more interesting and dynamic

What lategame are you playing 0.o.


the regular one
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 10:00 GMT
#47
The probe blocks, what a baller
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
darklycid
Profile Joined May 2014
3511 Posts
June 05 2019 10:00 GMT
#48
On June 05 2019 18:59 Argonauta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 18:58 darklycid wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:58 Argonauta wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:57 darklycid wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:56 Argonauta wrote:
a bit lame this bo5. Why korean pros refuse to macro?

Ever Seen PvZ lategame (or Played it?)



ofc, much more interesting and dynamic

What lategame are you playing 0.o.


the regular one

If u say it's dynamic i doubt it.
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 10:00 GMT
#49
"chills"
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
June 05 2019 10:00 GMT
#50
On June 05 2019 18:59 NotSoHappy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 18:59 Pandain wrote:
Literally what a joke series from classic.


you wrote "smart play" wrong


Smart play sure.

Also fucking terrible to watch
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
June 05 2019 10:00 GMT
#51
On June 05 2019 19:00 darklycid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 18:59 Argonauta wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:58 darklycid wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:58 Argonauta wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:57 darklycid wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:56 Argonauta wrote:
a bit lame this bo5. Why korean pros refuse to macro?

Ever Seen PvZ lategame (or Played it?)



ofc, much more interesting and dynamic

What lategame are you playing 0.o.


the regular one

If u say it's dynamic i doubt it.

\
nah bro, step up your play.
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Plebsmeister
Profile Joined February 2019
15 Posts
June 05 2019 10:00 GMT
#52
wow so good game
not broken at all
ty blizzard

User was banned for this post.
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
June 05 2019 10:00 GMT
#53
Classic is so good at those cannon rushes.
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 10:01 GMT
#54
Classic tries to attack Maru's records?
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 10:01 GMT
#55
tfw i lost to this on ladder a few days ago and can now feel better because soo died aswell
~~~~~
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3116 Posts
June 05 2019 10:01 GMT
#56
Even pros lose to not scouting their own base. I know this feeling. It has happened to me a lot when I first started playing Starcraft.
Artosis loves Starcraft
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
June 05 2019 10:02 GMT
#57
I'm gonna vomit.
Ultima Ratio Regum
NExt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1651 Posts
June 05 2019 10:02 GMT
#58
On June 05 2019 19:00 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 18:59 NotSoHappy wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 Pandain wrote:
Literally what a joke series from classic.


you wrote "smart play" wrong


Smart play sure.

Also fucking terrible to watch


He's not playing for views and internet cool points. Dude wants to win a gsl one more time, he's gotta do what he's gotta do
Waiting for Protoss Jesus
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 05 2019 10:02 GMT
#59
Classic has become cheesier than Has recently...
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
June 05 2019 10:02 GMT
#60
This reminds me so much of Classic's game vs Rogue and Dark last season. He mixed in so much cheese, all-ins and proxies.
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 10:03:45
June 05 2019 10:03 GMT
#61
On June 05 2019 19:01 NoS-Craig wrote:
Even pros lose to not scouting their own base. I know this feeling. It has happened to me a lot when I first started playing Starcraft.

Iirc someone worked out that herO lost between $160-240K in series he lost to in-base proxy gates.

The best part is they were all over the course of about a year
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
June 05 2019 10:03 GMT
#62
On June 05 2019 19:02 NExt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:00 Pandain wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 NotSoHappy wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 Pandain wrote:
Literally what a joke series from classic.


you wrote "smart play" wrong


Smart play sure.

Also fucking terrible to watch


He's not playing for views and internet cool points. Dude wants to win a gsl one more time, he's gotta do what he's gotta do


Hah yeah I love this idea that you risk 35 grand to entertain a small portion of the player base. I love soO more than Classic and even I was entertained.
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
June 05 2019 10:03 GMT
#63
Classic mixes in these cannon rushes so perfectly. I swear he's like never lost a cannon rush PvZ in GSL ever, but he doesn't do it enough that you would ever try and meta game him.
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
June 05 2019 10:04 GMT
#64
Scouting this earlier wouldn't change a thing because of cannon on the lowground. This is straight ShieldBattery abuse. Zerg has nothing on this stage of the game to outdamage this shit. It's autowin for P. Thanks Blizzard. U really made this game great again. Trump style.
Ultima Ratio Regum
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 10:04 GMT
#65
may be artosis was right giving too much time to prepare really favors the attacker
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
June 05 2019 10:04 GMT
#66
On June 05 2019 19:03 liberate71 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:02 NExt wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:00 Pandain wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 NotSoHappy wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 Pandain wrote:
Literally what a joke series from classic.


you wrote "smart play" wrong


Smart play sure.

Also fucking terrible to watch


He's not playing for views and internet cool points. Dude wants to win a gsl one more time, he's gotta do what he's gotta do


Hah yeah I love this idea that you risk 35 grand to entertain a small portion of the player base. I love soO more than Classic and even I was entertained.


No one is saying that he shouldn't play to win. Just means the series sucks.
NotSoHappy
Profile Joined November 2010
445 Posts
June 05 2019 10:04 GMT
#67
On June 05 2019 19:00 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 18:59 NotSoHappy wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 Pandain wrote:
Literally what a joke series from classic.


you wrote "smart play" wrong


Smart play sure.

Also fucking terrible to watch


to you, sure
to me, pretty entertaining, but too fast, he he
kyllinghest
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway1607 Posts
June 05 2019 10:04 GMT
#68
Classic is the worlds best player, and its because he has understood what it takes to win. Is the fun old Starcraft dead?
"NO" -Has
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
June 05 2019 10:05 GMT
#69
On June 05 2019 19:04 hiroshOne wrote:
Scouting this earlier wouldn't change a thing because of cannon on the lowground. This is straight ShieldBattery abuse. Zerg has nothing on this stage of the game to outdamage this shit. It's autowin for P. Thanks Blizzard. U really made this game great again. Trump style.


If soO scouted that pylon earlier, he'd have spines earlier and less chance for that snowball from the batteries, no?
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
June 05 2019 10:05 GMT
#70
Ifr quick cheeses is the smart play, time to go back to 6 worker start? At least we will have more meaningful cheeses
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 10:05 GMT
#71
On June 05 2019 19:03 blooblooblahblah wrote:
Classic mixes in these cannon rushes so perfectly. I swear he's like never lost a cannon rush PvZ in GSL ever, but he doesn't do it enough that you would ever try and meta game him.

Never forget the time he cannon rushed Rogue and then lost to the fake proxy hatch into actual proxy hatch

Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4116 Posts
June 05 2019 10:05 GMT
#72
since I am still quite new to SC2 can someone explain me, why does the zerg feels the need to destroy the cannons, at least why so early, instead of just putting 2-3 sunkens to stop the protoss from advancing and play regular until he is able to kill the cannond&other stuff? since the placement of the cannons was not preventing soo from mining etc,
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
StabiloBoss20
Profile Joined July 2015
313 Posts
June 05 2019 10:05 GMT
#73
i mean why risking a macro game, if you can just win like that?
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
June 05 2019 10:05 GMT
#74
On June 05 2019 19:04 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:03 liberate71 wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:02 NExt wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:00 Pandain wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 NotSoHappy wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 Pandain wrote:
Literally what a joke series from classic.


you wrote "smart play" wrong


Smart play sure.

Also fucking terrible to watch


He's not playing for views and internet cool points. Dude wants to win a gsl one more time, he's gotta do what he's gotta do


Hah yeah I love this idea that you risk 35 grand to entertain a small portion of the player base. I love soO more than Classic and even I was entertained.


No one is saying that he shouldn't play to win. Just means the series sucks.


To each their own, I'm entertained, I just feel bad for soO - but someones gotta lose.
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
June 05 2019 10:05 GMT
#75
On June 05 2019 19:05 Argonauta wrote:
Ifr quick cheeses is the smart play, time to go back to 6 worker start? At least we will have more meaningful cheeses


alternatively, bo7 or bo9 matches
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
SAFenix
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada439 Posts
June 05 2019 10:06 GMT
#76
On June 05 2019 19:04 hiroshOne wrote:
Scouting this earlier wouldn't change a thing because of cannon on the lowground. This is straight ShieldBattery abuse. Zerg has nothing on this stage of the game to outdamage this shit. It's autowin for P. Thanks Blizzard. U really made this game great again. Trump style.


Dude you need to calm down. You've commented 3 things similar to this in the exact same thread... you have made your point.
mYi.Rain | SKT1.soO
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 10:06 GMT
#77
blame the game not the player
I Protoss winner, could it be?
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 10:06 GMT
#78
Even if you scout it, can you actually get 3 drones to attack the cannon on the low ground properly? Just a theory, but it seemed to me that the cannon was perfectly covered with minerals and you don't have a chance to kill it with drones. Anybody knows?
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 10:07:43
June 05 2019 10:06 GMT
#79
On June 05 2019 19:04 NotSoHappy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:00 Pandain wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 NotSoHappy wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 Pandain wrote:
Literally what a joke series from classic.


you wrote "smart play" wrong


Smart play sure.

Also fucking terrible to watch


to you, sure
to me, pretty entertaining, but too fast, he he


I'm glad you enjoy all-in adept and immortal pushes that either outright win or lose right away. hope you and the other same 5 people in here enjoy

at least the cannon rush is entertaining

also im mostly tilted just ignore me guys
Noa Greenini
Profile Joined April 2015
265 Posts
June 05 2019 10:06 GMT
#80
I mean I want Classic to lose as much as the next guy but there is something great about seeing a successful canon rush ^^
Noa Greenini looks like the superior LR poster - Charoisaur 04/05/2019 (Serral vs Showtime match)
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
June 05 2019 10:06 GMT
#81
This is just bad design. Terran and Protoss have all the fun with various openings and tones of ballshit they can throw at Zerg. In the meantime Zerg is that poor little bitch, that can only wait and wonder from where the hit will come. It is sooo fucking boring. Just give Zerg some agressive options in early game or tone down the harras of P and T.
Ultima Ratio Regum
StabiloBoss20
Profile Joined July 2015
313 Posts
June 05 2019 10:07 GMT
#82
On June 05 2019 19:05 M2 wrote:
since I am still quite new to SC2 can someone explain me, why does the zerg feels the need to destroy the cannons, at least why so early, instead of just putting 2-3 sunkens to stop the protoss from advancing and play regular until he is able to kill the cannond&other stuff? since the placement of the cannons was not preventing soo from mining etc,


cause in 2min there are immortals with shield batterys and you not gonna kill a single unit anymore. and obviously thats gg.
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
June 05 2019 10:07 GMT
#83
On June 05 2019 19:05 M2 wrote:
since I am still quite new to SC2 can someone explain me, why does the zerg feels the need to destroy the cannons, at least why so early, instead of just putting 2-3 sunkens to stop the protoss from advancing and play regular until he is able to kill the cannond&other stuff? since the placement of the cannons was not preventing soo from mining etc,

Think because the Protoss usually follows up with a proxy Robo to get out an Immortal which kinda kills spines easily.
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
Snakestyle11
Profile Joined December 2018
191 Posts
June 05 2019 10:08 GMT
#84
ZvP is kind of crazy right now... Both races all-inning or cheesing very very often.... I hope we get one macro game so we can see how late game looks.
kyllinghest
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway1607 Posts
June 05 2019 10:08 GMT
#85
On June 05 2019 19:05 M2 wrote:
since I am still quite new to SC2 can someone explain me, why does the zerg feels the need to destroy the cannons, at least why so early, instead of just putting 2-3 sunkens to stop the protoss from advancing and play regular until he is able to kill the cannond&other stuff? since the placement of the cannons was not preventing soo from mining etc,

Because the protoss will use his new "base" as an unstoppable shield battery fest in the next wave of attack! If he gets ranged units there, like the highly interesting Immortal, they are almost impossible to stop with cannon and battery support.
"NO" -Has
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
June 05 2019 10:08 GMT
#86
PvZ has become like the proxy meta of last year. Cheese is standard. Macro is cheese.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
NotSoHappy
Profile Joined November 2010
445 Posts
June 05 2019 10:09 GMT
#87
On June 05 2019 19:06 Pandain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:04 NotSoHappy wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:00 Pandain wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 NotSoHappy wrote:
On June 05 2019 18:59 Pandain wrote:
Literally what a joke series from classic.


you wrote "smart play" wrong


Smart play sure.

Also fucking terrible to watch


to you, sure
to me, pretty entertaining, but too fast, he he


I'm glad you enjoy all-in adept and immortal pushes that either outright win or lose right away. hope you and the other same 5 people in here enjoy

at least the cannon rush is entertaining



blizz should just issue a rule to remove all the dirty cheeses and all-ins from the game
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 10:09 GMT
#88
On June 05 2019 19:06 hiroshOne wrote:
This is just bad design. Terran and Protoss have all the fun with various openings and tones of ballshit they can throw at Zerg. In the meantime Zerg is that poor little bitch, that can only wait and wonder from where the hit will come. It is sooo fucking boring. Just give Zerg some agressive options in early game or tone down the harras of P and T.

Meanwhile Dark in his latest GSL interview "12 pool if executed properly counters every build in sc2"
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4116 Posts
June 05 2019 10:10 GMT
#89
ok I got it, I thought that ravagers can hold such attacks
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
Snakestyle11
Profile Joined December 2018
191 Posts
June 05 2019 10:10 GMT
#90
On June 05 2019 19:08 Morbidius wrote:
PvZ has become like the proxy meta of last year. Cheese is standard. Macro is cheese.

But you cant macro since youre getting cheesed. So you better off cheesing yourself so you survive against cheese and win against macro.
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 10:10 GMT
#91
On June 05 2019 19:09 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:06 hiroshOne wrote:
This is just bad design. Terran and Protoss have all the fun with various openings and tones of ballshit they can throw at Zerg. In the meantime Zerg is that poor little bitch, that can only wait and wonder from where the hit will come. It is sooo fucking boring. Just give Zerg some agressive options in early game or tone down the harras of P and T.

Meanwhile Dark in his latest GSL interview "12 pool if executed properly counters every build in sc2"

Dark is a polish zerg :O
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
NotSoHappy
Profile Joined November 2010
445 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 10:12:48
June 05 2019 10:12 GMT
#92
On June 05 2019 19:06 hiroshOne wrote:
This is just bad design. Terran and Protoss have all the fun with various openings and tones of ballshit they can throw at Zerg. In the meantime Zerg is that poor little bitch, that can only wait and wonder from where the hit will come. It is sooo fucking boring. Just give Zerg some agressive options in early game or tone down the harras of P and T.



Yes, let's make zerg: best at preparing, best at macroing, best at all-ining, best ant cheese and best at responding. this sure will be one, well balanced game
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 10:12 GMT
#93
On June 05 2019 19:10 M2 wrote:
ok I got it, I thought that ravagers can hold such attacks

You need enough of them to one-shot the immortal. And some Protosses can go into void rays. And then you need plenty of queens(which are not made from the eggs).

+ don't forget one or two cannons will shoot at the units which are moving from the natural.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Aocowns
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway6070 Posts
June 05 2019 10:15 GMT
#94
artosis commentary very inadvertently explaining the current state of ZvP:

"i think this scout pattern is just gonna win him the game, the build is kinda bad. No nevermind hes turning around."
I'm a salt-lord and hater of mech and ForGG, don't take me seriously, it's just my salt-humour speaking i swear. |KadaverBB best TL gaoler| |~IdrA's #1 fan~| SetGuitarsToKill and Duckk are my martyr heroes |
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
June 05 2019 10:16 GMT
#95
GG
Snakestyle11
Profile Joined December 2018
191 Posts
June 05 2019 10:16 GMT
#96
Oh its the warp-prism harass into 2 stargate mass pheonix into 2 base immortal sentry all-in.

Damn zerg shouldve really scouted that and know iit was coming.
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 10:16 GMT
#97
this is next level of corsair bully
hiroshOne
Profile Joined October 2015
Poland425 Posts
June 05 2019 10:16 GMT
#98
I don't mind toning down Zerg late game if that's a problem. But the way it is right now- extremely op early game for P is just fucking bad
Ultima Ratio Regum
mCon.Hephaistas
Profile Joined May 2014
Netherlands891 Posts
June 05 2019 10:16 GMT
#99
On June 05 2019 19:12 NotSoHappy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:06 hiroshOne wrote:
This is just bad design. Terran and Protoss have all the fun with various openings and tones of ballshit they can throw at Zerg. In the meantime Zerg is that poor little bitch, that can only wait and wonder from where the hit will come. It is sooo fucking boring. Just give Zerg some agressive options in early game or tone down the harras of P and T.



Yes, let's make zerg: best at preparing, best at macroing, best at all-ining, best ant cheese and best at responding. this sure will be one, well balanced game


Best at macroing? since the inject nerf not really.

Protoss can easily keep up.

Best anti cheese? lol
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 10:17 GMT
#100
yay, got my bet
I Protoss winner, could it be?
ByuuN
Profile Joined November 2016
Poland678 Posts
June 05 2019 10:17 GMT
#101
Balanced.
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 10:18:16
June 05 2019 10:18 GMT
#102
luckily zerg has his lategame to shine
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
ByuuN
Profile Joined November 2016
Poland678 Posts
June 05 2019 10:18 GMT
#103
Chin up.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 10:19 GMT
#104
I'm not surprised, Classic is the best player in the RO8, but the way how he won, damn.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
June 05 2019 10:19 GMT
#105
On June 05 2019 19:18 ByuuN wrote:
Chin up.


Nice.

Feels bad for soO but I think Dark would handle Classic if they met - shame Innovation is going to ruin that party ^_^
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
neutralrobot
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia1025 Posts
June 05 2019 10:19 GMT
#106
God, that looked fucked up.
Maru | Life | PartinG || I guess I like aggressive control freaks... || Reynor will one day reign supreme || *reyn supreme
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 10:20 GMT
#107
On June 05 2019 19:18 Argonauta wrote:
luckily zerg has his lategame to shine

you can pm me when it finally shines
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
June 05 2019 10:21 GMT
#108
I'm disappointed that there's more people talking about balance than this translation
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
June 05 2019 10:21 GMT
#109
Zerg had some cool agressions they could pull off in a series with overlord drop and it could be tailored very well to the opponent. Now that overlord dropping is all but removed the other options are much more commited.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 10:22 GMT
#110
On June 05 2019 19:21 blooblooblahblah wrote:
I'm disappointed that there's more people talking about balance than this translation

Guy's doing his best. At the same time Blizzard is just silent which IMO doesn't help the situation. Usually they would at least announce they're looking into it while not seeing a solution.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 10:22 GMT
#111
On June 05 2019 19:21 blooblooblahblah wrote:
I'm disappointed that there's more people talking about balance than this translation

the translator is a zerg player perhap
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
June 05 2019 10:24 GMT
#112
The traslator usually is very on point, I guess classic is hard to get?
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
Highrock1
Profile Joined March 2019
50 Posts
June 05 2019 10:26 GMT
#113
Poor soo, we will dedicate the upcoming protoss nerf to him.
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 10:27 GMT
#114
On June 05 2019 19:22 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:21 blooblooblahblah wrote:
I'm disappointed that there's more people talking about balance than this translation

Guy's doing his best. At the same time Blizzard is just silent which IMO doesn't help the situation. Usually they would at least announce they're looking into it while not seeing a solution.

what ? you dont like our new coop hero stetmann ? blyatsphemy!
StabiloBoss20
Profile Joined July 2015
313 Posts
June 05 2019 10:29 GMT
#115
On June 05 2019 19:19 deacon.frost wrote:
I'm not surprised, Classic is the best player in the RO8, but the way how he won, damn.


and Hamilton might be the best driver in F1. But as long as he sits in a Mercedes it's not relevant
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 10:29 GMT
#116
On June 05 2019 19:27 seemsgood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:22 deacon.frost wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:21 blooblooblahblah wrote:
I'm disappointed that there's more people talking about balance than this translation

Guy's doing his best. At the same time Blizzard is just silent which IMO doesn't help the situation. Usually they would at least announce they're looking into it while not seeing a solution.

what ? you dont like our new coop hero stetmann ? blyatsphemy!

I HATE IT WITH RAGE AND FURY!@#!$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every time I finish a ladder game it gets me to the main screen with this dude and the sounds & music starts and it's getting me furious. Ahhhh!!!
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
DBooN
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany2727 Posts
June 05 2019 10:30 GMT
#117
On June 05 2019 19:29 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:27 seemsgood wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:22 deacon.frost wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:21 blooblooblahblah wrote:
I'm disappointed that there's more people talking about balance than this translation

Guy's doing his best. At the same time Blizzard is just silent which IMO doesn't help the situation. Usually they would at least announce they're looking into it while not seeing a solution.

what ? you dont like our new coop hero stetmann ? blyatsphemy!

I HATE IT WITH RAGE AND FURY!@#!$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every time I finish a ladder game it gets me to the main screen with this dude and the sounds & music starts and it's getting me furious. Ahhhh!!!

Oh, so it's not just me...
yht9657
Profile Joined December 2016
1810 Posts
June 05 2019 10:32 GMT
#118
On June 05 2019 19:29 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:27 seemsgood wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:22 deacon.frost wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:21 blooblooblahblah wrote:
I'm disappointed that there's more people talking about balance than this translation

Guy's doing his best. At the same time Blizzard is just silent which IMO doesn't help the situation. Usually they would at least announce they're looking into it while not seeing a solution.

what ? you dont like our new coop hero stetmann ? blyatsphemy!

I HATE IT WITH RAGE AND FURY!@#!$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every time I finish a ladder game it gets me to the main screen with this dude and the sounds & music starts and it's getting me furious. Ahhhh!!!

Yeah the mandatory unchangable promotion screen is the worst idea Blizzard has had about this game.
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
June 05 2019 10:34 GMT
#119
Innovation dissing people left and right.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 10:37 GMT
#120
GO INNOOOOOO
~~~~~
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 10:37 GMT
#121
makarov to bogus : remember,no protoss(load up fucking pkp pecheneg)
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 10:38 GMT
#122
On June 05 2019 19:32 yht9657 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 19:29 deacon.frost wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:27 seemsgood wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:22 deacon.frost wrote:
On June 05 2019 19:21 blooblooblahblah wrote:
I'm disappointed that there's more people talking about balance than this translation

Guy's doing his best. At the same time Blizzard is just silent which IMO doesn't help the situation. Usually they would at least announce they're looking into it while not seeing a solution.

what ? you dont like our new coop hero stetmann ? blyatsphemy!

I HATE IT WITH RAGE AND FURY!@#!$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Every time I finish a ladder game it gets me to the main screen with this dude and the sounds & music starts and it's getting me furious. Ahhhh!!!

Yeah the mandatory unchangable promotion screen is the worst idea Blizzard has had about this game.

I bought all 3 games right at the release date, at least the paying customers should have the option to hide them.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 10:40 GMT
#123
losing reaper with no scout is an ouch
~~~~~
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 10:42 GMT
#124
On June 05 2019 19:40 Andi_Goldberger wrote:
losing reaper with no scout is an ouch

he also seemed to lose a mule on a weird spot (not mining)
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 10:43 GMT
#125
delaying toss 3rd is super good im feeling this for inno
~~~~~
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
June 05 2019 10:44 GMT
#126
this game is already way more interesting than the whole last series
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 10:45 GMT
#127
is he gonna 2 base all in anyway ?
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 10:46 GMT
#128
Mine + storm? Did I see correclty? If that was intentional, Trap, you madman!
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
yht9657
Profile Joined December 2016
1810 Posts
June 05 2019 10:49 GMT
#129
I don't know why but I've not seen a good forcefield/storm combo for a long time.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 10:50 GMT
#130
That storm flank was sick. Hit almost everything.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 10:51 GMT
#131
dude should have liberator range at this time
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
June 05 2019 10:53 GMT
#132
beautiful game by trap
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
June 05 2019 10:53 GMT
#133
Trap is sooo goood
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
yht9657
Profile Joined December 2016
1810 Posts
June 05 2019 10:54 GMT
#134
Trying to play lategame against Maru's teammate may not be the best idea here Inno.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 10:54 GMT
#135
Trap played really well that one.
youaremysin
Profile Joined August 2015
119 Posts
June 05 2019 10:55 GMT
#136
Felt like trap was behind on tech but put enough pressure that Inno never pushed out
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 10:55:47
June 05 2019 10:55 GMT
#137
Trap played that so fucking well. His army movements and flanks were sick, and his transitions to colossus/tempest were almost perfect from the position he was in
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 10:57 GMT
#138
the 10 scv kills slowed inno down so much.. then his pushed got stopped by the storm flank + he lost 5 widow mines to the forcefields, from then win chance was very low imo. excited for the thunderlord game
~~~~~
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 10:59 GMT
#139
mech it happen motherfucker !
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
June 05 2019 10:59 GMT
#140
It's a mech build!
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:00 GMT
#141
M E C H A N I C H Y P E
Also C O B A L T H Y P E
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Treveis
Profile Joined July 2018
11 Posts
June 05 2019 11:02 GMT
#142
protoss inba

User was temp banned for this post.
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
June 05 2019 11:02 GMT
#143
On June 05 2019 20:00 Durnuu wrote:
M E C H A N I C H Y P E
Also C O B A L T H Y P E


Not Cobalt
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 11:03 GMT
#144
damn this push looks strong
~~~~~
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:04 GMT
#145
On June 05 2019 20:02 blooblooblahblah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:00 Durnuu wrote:
M E C H A N I C H Y P E
Also C O B A L T H Y P E


Not Cobalt

I know, but next game!
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 11:04 GMT
#146
meched
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
June 05 2019 11:04 GMT
#147
Inno Mech-ing it happen!
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 11:04 GMT
#148
Robogus macro.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 11:05 GMT
#149
On June 05 2019 20:03 Andi_Goldberger wrote:
damn this push looks strong

The map and its defensive position with 1 ramp helps too.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 11:05 GMT
#150
trap kinda forgot you dont run 20 stalkers into 10 sieged tanks

I think were not gonna see pheonix opener again
~~~~~
yht9657
Profile Joined December 2016
1810 Posts
June 05 2019 11:05 GMT
#151
lol that looked like broodwar
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
June 05 2019 11:05 GMT
#152
Wow what a push from Innovation, that is not easy to do.

Reminds of some random TvZ game Innovation played where he went mech and did this really methodical push across the map and killed some guy many years ago. No idea who or when this was.
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3116 Posts
June 05 2019 11:06 GMT
#153
I do like Cobalt a lot. Find it aesthetically pleasing.
Artosis loves Starcraft
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
June 05 2019 11:06 GMT
#154
First time we getting cross spawns on Cobalt!
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
yht9657
Profile Joined December 2016
1810 Posts
June 05 2019 11:06 GMT
#155
I hope we see some BC action on Cobalt.
Treveis
Profile Joined July 2018
11 Posts
June 05 2019 11:07 GMT
#156
every time i see terran mech
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 11:07 GMT
#157
very good spawn we dont have to see some nonsense rushes on this map
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
June 05 2019 11:09 GMT
#158
I'm just happy Innovation is actually doing different builds today
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 11:10 GMT
#159
I cant really see the raven stim push happening on this map with the huge cross distance
~~~~~
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 11:10 GMT
#160
On June 05 2019 20:09 blooblooblahblah wrote:
I'm just happy Innovation is actually doing different builds today

thats ro8 bogus
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
June 05 2019 11:14 GMT
#161
I think Inno lost this map the moment he spawned cross.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3116 Posts
June 05 2019 11:14 GMT
#162
Inno losing not paying attention to his units in the middle of the map.
Artosis loves Starcraft
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 11:19 GMT
#163
trap just fought without storms for like thoe whole fight wat
~~~~~
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:20 GMT
#164
On June 05 2019 20:19 Andi_Goldberger wrote:
trap just fought without storms for like thoe whole fight wat

He had to wait for the ghosts to die/use all their EMPs
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 11:21 GMT
#165
BCs when ?
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 11:23:51
June 05 2019 11:22 GMT
#166
On June 05 2019 20:20 Durnuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:19 Andi_Goldberger wrote:
trap just fought without storms for like thoe whole fight wat

He had to wait for the ghosts to die/use all their EMPs

allow me to introduce you to my friend the 8 storm warp prism

edit: god damn his marine was shift clicked to bottom right but he placed the new nexus there and the marine got picked off thats unlucky
~~~~~
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:22 GMT
#167
On June 05 2019 20:21 seemsgood wrote:
BCs when ?

He's not even getting 3/3 so I'm not sure we'll see BCs
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 11:24:32
June 05 2019 11:23 GMT
#168
So, ninja base wins the game?

EDIT: Yeah, Bogus is dead.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
NExt
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia1651 Posts
June 05 2019 11:25 GMT
#169
Inno forget 3/3??
Waiting for Protoss Jesus
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 11:25 GMT
#170
get splashed
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Argonauta
Profile Joined July 2016
Spain4948 Posts
June 05 2019 11:25 GMT
#171
TRAP!!!!
Rogue | Maru | Scarlett | Trap
TL+ Member
kyllinghest
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway1607 Posts
June 05 2019 11:25 GMT
#172
On June 05 2019 20:25 NExt wrote:
Inno forget 3/3??

He was balancing on a knifes edge, probably didnt think he could afford it.
"NO" -Has
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 11:26 GMT
#173
On June 05 2019 20:23 lolfail9001 wrote:
So, ninja base wins the game?

EDIT: Yeah, Bogus is dead.


Man, I hate ninja base.
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3116 Posts
June 05 2019 11:26 GMT
#174
Was hoping Inno would check the other mains earlier.
Artosis loves Starcraft
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 11:26 GMT
#175
i feel like his macro is not on point today
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 11:26 GMT
#176
On June 05 2019 20:14 NoS-Craig wrote:
Inno losing not paying attention to his units in the middle of the map.

INno doesn't focus on more than one thing at once. Every time Trap sent a warp prism in you see his entire army F2 in the middle.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Soyuz
Profile Joined July 2011
Hong Kong996 Posts
June 05 2019 11:26 GMT
#177
On June 05 2019 20:26 NoS-Craig wrote:
Was hoping Inno would check the other mains earlier.


The one marine that was waypointed to the bottom right main was killed
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
June 05 2019 11:26 GMT
#178
Thank you betting sites for the 2.4 odds on Trap.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
June 05 2019 11:27 GMT
#179
The funny thing is Inno had a marine shift queued to look for that base but then it ended up seeing the other base first and then got killed by a stalker lol
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
Treveis
Profile Joined July 2018
11 Posts
June 05 2019 11:27 GMT
#180
nerf protoss pls
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
June 05 2019 11:27 GMT
#181
Also how surprising that the grand macro game was delivered by the handpicked 4p map.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2749 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 11:28:22
June 05 2019 11:28 GMT
#182
Gogo trap, a 2 pvp semi would be "amazing" !
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 11:28 GMT
#183
On June 05 2019 20:26 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:14 NoS-Craig wrote:
Inno losing not paying attention to his units in the middle of the map.

INno doesn't focus on more than one thing at once. Every time Trap sent a warp prism in you see his entire army F2 in the middle.


yeah I always felt like Inno's multitask wasn't amazing for a pro
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 11:28:40
June 05 2019 11:28 GMT
#184
On June 05 2019 20:27 blooblooblahblah wrote:
The funny thing is Inno had a marine shift queued to look for that base but then it ended up seeing the other base first and then got killed by a stalker lol

Thing is by the time the marine could have reached the bottom right base, it had been up/fully saturated for way too long. Inno needed to have scouted it earlier (around the time he won that big fight and took down the 4th base)
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
yht9657
Profile Joined December 2016
1810 Posts
June 05 2019 11:28 GMT
#185
On June 05 2019 20:26 Ej_ wrote:
Thank you betting sites for the 2.4 odds on Trap.

Can we somehow use the odds to accuse Inno of matchfixing cuz I guess that's the trend these days?
geokilla
Profile Joined May 2011
Canada8240 Posts
June 05 2019 11:30 GMT
#186
On June 05 2019 20:26 Ej_ wrote:
Thank you betting sites for the 2.4 odds on Trap.

How much did you bet? Series isn't even over yet.
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:31 GMT
#187
On June 05 2019 20:30 geokilla wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:26 Ej_ wrote:
Thank you betting sites for the 2.4 odds on Trap.

How much did you bet? Series isn't even over yet.

I just wanna point out Ej also bet on soO lmao
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 11:33 GMT
#188
On June 05 2019 20:31 Durnuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:30 geokilla wrote:
On June 05 2019 20:26 Ej_ wrote:
Thank you betting sites for the 2.4 odds on Trap.

How much did you bet? Series isn't even over yet.

I just wanna point out Ej also bet on soO lmao

You need to spread your bets to cover your losses otherwise your bookmaker will add you to the list of people who are not supposed to walk anymore
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
June 05 2019 11:34 GMT
#189
On June 05 2019 20:31 Durnuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:30 geokilla wrote:
On June 05 2019 20:26 Ej_ wrote:
Thank you betting sites for the 2.4 odds on Trap.

How much did you bet? Series isn't even over yet.

I just wanna point out Ej also bet on soO lmao

I had a coupon soo+trap
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:36 GMT
#190
On June 05 2019 20:34 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:31 Durnuu wrote:
On June 05 2019 20:30 geokilla wrote:
On June 05 2019 20:26 Ej_ wrote:
Thank you betting sites for the 2.4 odds on Trap.

How much did you bet? Series isn't even over yet.

I just wanna point out Ej also bet on soO lmao

I had a coupon soo+trap

I'm still going to make fun of you
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:38 GMT
#191
No mech smh
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
ByuuN
Profile Joined November 2016
Poland678 Posts
June 05 2019 11:39 GMT
#192
Pull. The. Boys.
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 11:39 GMT
#193
On June 05 2019 20:38 Durnuu wrote:
No mech smh

4/10 game
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 11:41 GMT
#194
On June 05 2019 20:28 Anc13nt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:26 Fango wrote:
On June 05 2019 20:14 NoS-Craig wrote:
Inno losing not paying attention to his units in the middle of the map.

INno doesn't focus on more than one thing at once. Every time Trap sent a warp prism in you see his entire army F2 in the middle.


yeah I always felt like Inno's multitask wasn't amazing for a pro

He's amazing when there's only one thing going on e.g. turtle much or parade pushes. But his multitasking and reactive play have never been great.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:41 GMT
#195
What an absolutely awful fight from Innovation
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6929 Posts
June 05 2019 11:41 GMT
#196
Use thy Raven!
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 11:42 GMT
#197
only hope is turtle to bc
~~~~~
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 11:42 GMT
#198
ouch i think inno is going to lose this
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 11:43 GMT
#199
Marine already killed the probe, Arty
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6929 Posts
June 05 2019 11:43 GMT
#200
On June 05 2019 20:41 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:28 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 20:26 Fango wrote:
On June 05 2019 20:14 NoS-Craig wrote:
Inno losing not paying attention to his units in the middle of the map.

INno doesn't focus on more than one thing at once. Every time Trap sent a warp prism in you see his entire army F2 in the middle.


yeah I always felt like Inno's multitask wasn't amazing for a pro

He's amazing when there's only one thing going on e.g. turtle much or parade pushes. But his multitasking and reactive play have never been great.


And somehow he always wins vs Maru...
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
June 05 2019 11:43 GMT
#201
Yeah, Bogus looks like kinda dead now, easiest Ro4 of Trap's life i guess, at this rate Trap might get 2nd place in next season.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 11:44 GMT
#202
OMG, Pillow fight That imagin in my mind when liberators throw pillows at you
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 11:44 GMT
#203
feel like trap's macro could be better this series but his control is very good
Nerchio
Profile Joined October 2009
Poland2633 Posts
June 05 2019 11:45 GMT
#204
On June 05 2019 20:43 lolfail9001 wrote:
Yeah, Bogus looks like kinda dead now, easiest Ro4 of Trap's life i guess, at this rate Trap might get 2nd place in next season.

It will be like Hyun vs Sniper finals
Progamer"I am the best" - Nerchio , 2017.
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 11:47:09
June 05 2019 11:45 GMT
#205
nvm trap ran into 6 mines

edit: im getting flashbacks to his game on kings cove vs dark
~~~~~
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 11:46 GMT
#206
On June 05 2019 20:43 lolfail9001 wrote:
Yeah, Bogus looks like kinda dead now, easiest Ro4 of Trap's life i guess, at this rate Trap might get 2nd place in next season.

Trap ain't taking more than 1-2 games of Classic
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 11:47 GMT
#207
bogus s micro is really crappy today
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 11:48 GMT
#208
why would you ever attack into that straight up
~~~~~
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:48 GMT
#209
Remember guys, the Te is always sagi
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 11:48 GMT
#210
terraaan
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6929 Posts
June 05 2019 11:48 GMT
#211
Nice! Gogo game 5
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 11:49 GMT
#212
That was the worst possible attack, why Trap?
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 11:49 GMT
#213
Just one more game Inno, pls
ByuuN
Profile Joined November 2016
Poland678 Posts
June 05 2019 11:49 GMT
#214
Great throw.
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:50 GMT
#215
Innovation is coming for terran's 7th GSL in a row
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
June 05 2019 11:50 GMT
#216
Highest skilled era btw
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 11:50 GMT
#217
Throw of the season?
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 11:50 GMT
#218
will trap now crumble?
I Protoss winner, could it be?
CoupdeBoule
Profile Joined November 2018
73 Posts
June 05 2019 11:50 GMT
#219
Wow cant believe how broken Protoss is!!!
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
June 05 2019 11:50 GMT
#220
On June 05 2019 20:49 deacon.frost wrote:
That was the worst possible attack, why Trap?


Creates a C shape then just A-moved lol. The prism just flew in head first with units in it.
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:50 GMT
#221
On June 05 2019 20:50 Ej_ wrote:
Highest skilled era btw

Jin air coaching btw
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3116 Posts
June 05 2019 11:50 GMT
#222
Did Trap feel behind before he over-extended there? Seemed crazy to attack into Libs/bio.
Artosis loves Starcraft
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 11:50 GMT
#223
that game was def trap losing not inno winning
~~~~~
NotSoHappy
Profile Joined November 2010
445 Posts
June 05 2019 11:50 GMT
#224
Trap's mentality left him after this game
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
June 05 2019 11:51 GMT
#225
Its kinda interesting how Inno mechanics aren't as good anymore, but his decision making got so good.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Highrock1
Profile Joined March 2019
50 Posts
June 05 2019 11:51 GMT
#226
Trap proxy all-in's and wins.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 11:51 GMT
#227
INno now 2 rax
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 11:51 GMT
#228
bogus never loses on this map
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 11:51 GMT
#229
I feel like Inno has to try so hard to win; like he's the type of player who needs to keep outplaying his opponent to win.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 11:52 GMT
#230
Trap looking tilted
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 11:53 GMT
#231
On June 05 2019 20:50 liberate71 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:49 deacon.frost wrote:
That was the worst possible attack, why Trap?


Creates a C shape then just A-moved lol. The prism just flew in head first with units in it.

Both templars got out, 1 didn't have the energy, 2nd put great storm, wasn't enough.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
pdd
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia9933 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 11:56:30
June 05 2019 11:56 GMT
#232
looks quite similar to the Thunderbird mech build

EDIT: Then another rax
TI4 Champions: EE-Sama | B7-God | A-God_2000 | Kappa Lord | pieliedie
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
June 05 2019 11:57 GMT
#233
On June 05 2019 20:53 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 20:50 liberate71 wrote:
On June 05 2019 20:49 deacon.frost wrote:
That was the worst possible attack, why Trap?


Creates a C shape then just A-moved lol. The prism just flew in head first with units in it.

Both templars got out, 1 didn't have the energy, 2nd put great storm, wasn't enough.


Ah I missed that, I thought it was the first thing to die.
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 11:57 GMT
#234
what kind of proxy is this ?
yht9657
Profile Joined December 2016
1810 Posts
June 05 2019 11:57 GMT
#235
On June 05 2019 20:57 seemsgood wrote:
what kind of proxy is this ?

Failed proxy
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:57 GMT
#236
On June 05 2019 20:57 seemsgood wrote:
what kind of proxy is this ?

The kind that gets spotted, apparently
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
June 05 2019 11:57 GMT
#237
On June 05 2019 20:57 seemsgood wrote:
what kind of proxy is this ?


The old 'keep the banshee busy' strat
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 11:58 GMT
#238
Banshee will die as soon as INno F2s
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 11:58 GMT
#239
Imagine if Trap hadn't proxied the templar archives, maybe storm would be done by now lmao
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 11:59 GMT
#240
omg
~~~~~
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 12:00 GMT
#241
neinnnnnnnnnnnn
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 12:00 GMT
#242
Now lets see how imba 3CC is
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
June 05 2019 12:00 GMT
#243
Yikes Trap saved his ass with that drop
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
June 05 2019 12:01 GMT
#244
Innovation has zero respect for prisms. He saw that thing heading into his main and built 2 medivacs instead of two vikings.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:01 GMT
#245
aw hope Dark wins this GSL
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 12:01 GMT
#246
it's up to you Dark
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:02 GMT
#247
did he stabilize?
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
June 05 2019 12:03 GMT
#248
This is like Amulet era Storm counts lol.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 12:04 GMT
#249
haha oh god
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 12:04:33
June 05 2019 12:04 GMT
#250
A BEAUTIFUL RECALL TASTELESS
~~~~~
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 12:04 GMT
#251
The liberator stack, INnoVation is literally Elentos as a progamer
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3116 Posts
June 05 2019 12:04 GMT
#252
This is painful to watch.
Artosis loves Starcraft
lolfail9001
Profile Joined August 2013
Russian Federation40190 Posts
June 05 2019 12:04 GMT
#253
This game is sloppy.
DeMoN pulls off a Miracle and Flies to the Moon
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2749 Posts
June 05 2019 12:04 GMT
#254
Damn not a clean defense.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:05 GMT
#255
OUCH
NotSoHappy
Profile Joined November 2010
445 Posts
June 05 2019 12:05 GMT
#256
goddamnit inno, finish that peasant
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 12:05 GMT
#257
unlimited power
I Protoss winner, could it be?
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 12:05 GMT
#258
sloppy game
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
June 05 2019 12:05 GMT
#259
JIN
AIR
COACHING
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
agsub
Profile Joined May 2012
Singapore368 Posts
June 05 2019 12:06 GMT
#260
Disgusting =_=
Inflicted
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia18228 Posts
June 05 2019 12:06 GMT
#261
overstim, stacking into storm
inno trying his hardest to get those buffs
Liquipedia"Expert"
NoS-Craig
Profile Joined July 2011
Australia3116 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 12:07:10
June 05 2019 12:06 GMT
#262
Trap just slicing up Inno with counter attacks. They were so brutal. Just waits until he pushes out then moves in with Zealots.
Artosis loves Starcraft
Mlord
Profile Joined February 2013
France135 Posts
June 05 2019 12:06 GMT
#263
XDDD
Progamer
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
June 05 2019 12:06 GMT
#264
8/8 died, but 4/4 still lives!

herO beating Dark is a tall order though
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
liberate71
Profile Joined October 2011
Australia10252 Posts
June 05 2019 12:06 GMT
#265
Evil wins today, though if it becomes a protoss fest, I hope Parting steals the show!
Minelord Stimfestor, also known as karma.
blooblooblahblah
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia4163 Posts
June 05 2019 12:06 GMT
#266
That was a rollercoaster of emotions
Ganzi beat me without stim. Ostojiy beat me with a nydus. Siphonn beat me with probes. Revival beat my sentry-immortal all-in.
Snakestyle11
Profile Joined December 2018
191 Posts
June 05 2019 12:06 GMT
#267
Only dark left to go....
yoshi245
Profile Joined May 2011
United States2969 Posts
June 05 2019 12:06 GMT
#268
Welp, Dark is the only non Toss left. Hope he manages to advance at least.
Also wanting Classic to destroy Trap at the semis now.
"Numbers speak about the past, not the present." -Thorzain
Terra1
Profile Joined June 2018
Philippines312 Posts
June 05 2019 12:06 GMT
#269
Nice bets (Classic and Trap) grats. PartinG and Dark to advance next.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6929 Posts
June 05 2019 12:07 GMT
#270
Inno really making every effort that storms hit as much as possible
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
kyllinghest
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway1607 Posts
June 05 2019 12:07 GMT
#271
Pretty cool series, too bad about the racial distribution for the semis, but we cant really ask Trap to throw more! GG WP to the winners.
"NO" -Has
stilt
Profile Joined October 2012
France2749 Posts
June 05 2019 12:07 GMT
#272
On June 05 2019 21:06 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
8/8 died, but 4/4 still lives!

herO beating Dark is a tall order though


The dream is alive !
With this meta, herO will all in to death the poor zerg.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 12:08 GMT
#273
Trap being PvT master shows again. Except him playing Maru in the playo ffs
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 12:08 GMT
#274
On June 05 2019 21:07 kyllinghest wrote:
Pretty cool series, too bad about the racial distribution for the semis, but we cant really ask Trap to throw more! GG WP to the winners.

but you can always ask bogus not to throw
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:08 GMT
#275
if Inno doesn't make Blizzcon again that would suck
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 12:08 GMT
#276
the translator sounds so disappointed today, I don't think he's a protoss fan
I Protoss winner, could it be?
yht9657
Profile Joined December 2016
1810 Posts
June 05 2019 12:09 GMT
#277
On June 05 2019 21:08 Anc13nt wrote:
if Inno doesn't make Blizzcon again that would suck

He already got a Blizzcon-level paycheck at WESG so it wouldn't suck too much for him at least.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:09 GMT
#278
Also, the 8/8 or 4/4 protoss dream is becoming tired meme
raff100
Profile Joined April 2011
498 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 12:10:13
June 05 2019 12:10 GMT
#279
Now I want a full protoss ro4, please herO
NotSoHappy
Profile Joined November 2010
445 Posts
June 05 2019 12:10 GMT
#280
On June 05 2019 21:06 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
8/8 died, but 4/4 still lives!

herO beating Dark is a tall order though


check aligulac, you might be surprised how well hero does vs dark
Terra1
Profile Joined June 2018
Philippines312 Posts
June 05 2019 12:10 GMT
#281
After 2 years (since GSL 2017 Season 2 Code S), no Terrans in the finals. I'm happy for Dark to win if he makes it in the finals.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 12:12 GMT
#282
On June 05 2019 21:08 Anc13nt wrote:
if Inno doesn't make Blizzcon again that would suck

On the other hand Trap looks like a lock
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 12:13:14
June 05 2019 12:12 GMT
#283
On June 05 2019 21:10 Terra1 wrote:
After 2 years (since GSL 2017 Season 2 Code S), no Terrans in the finals. I'm happy for Dark to win if he makes it in the finals.

dark should win against herO unless he chokes for n times
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
June 05 2019 12:13 GMT
#284
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:13 GMT
#285
On June 05 2019 21:12 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:08 Anc13nt wrote:
if Inno doesn't make Blizzcon again that would suck

On the other hand Trap looks like a lock


yeah Inno needs to win Super tournament or make GSL finals (or at least do well in both) to make Blizzcon in all likelihood. He's in similar situation as last year basically but last year he flopped out of both.
repomaniak
Profile Joined January 2009
Poland324 Posts
June 05 2019 12:14 GMT
#286
GSL Audience


GSL wedding in seoul but GSL more important


GSL Classic interview


GSL cheer


GSL make a big trap


GSL Lets go humans


GSL Audience


GSL Tastosis psistorm is a good ability storm costs less mana?


GSL Trap interview

Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
June 05 2019 12:14 GMT
#287
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

Show nested quote +
On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.

Machine-level rally of liberators right into the eye of the storms!
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Penev
Profile Joined October 2012
28481 Posts
June 05 2019 12:14 GMT
#288
Dark is 37–47 (44.05%) in games and 11–20 (35.48%) in matches against herO

Dark won all (3) matches in 2019 though
I Protoss winner, could it be?
Andi_Goldberger
Profile Joined July 2018
Germany1608 Posts
June 05 2019 12:14 GMT
#289
to me the question is will dark vs her0 be shorter than soo vs classic
~~~~~
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 12:15 GMT
#290
On June 05 2019 21:13 Anc13nt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:12 Fango wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:08 Anc13nt wrote:
if Inno doesn't make Blizzcon again that would suck

On the other hand Trap looks like a lock


yeah Inno needs to win Super tournament or make GSL finals (or at least do well in both) to make Blizzcon in all likelihood. He's in similar situation as last year basically but last year he flopped out of both.

He also doesn't have the form to do either. I'm surprised he even made ro8 here tbh.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:15 GMT
#291
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

Show nested quote +
On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.


Hope that doesn't happen. I'm biased but to me Inno looked like the better player but made really sloppy mistakes that costed him
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5217 Posts
June 05 2019 12:16 GMT
#292
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

Show nested quote +
On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.


The better player at the moment always wins, but virtue of the defintion of the word better.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:16 GMT
#293
On June 05 2019 21:14 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.

Machine-level rally of liberators right into the eye of the storms!


that's almost as painful as when he lost all his medivacs against Stats or when his medivacs got trapped by Zest
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
June 05 2019 12:17 GMT
#294
On June 05 2019 21:14 Ej_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.

Machine-level rally of liberators right into the eye of the storms!


I didn't say he was perfect, but his tank push timings were about as crisp as could be--what else was he supposed to do?
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 12:17 GMT
#295
Remember last time Classic won GSL and no one celebrated for him because toss was imba at the time?
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 12:18 GMT
#296
can we all argree that the true evil is patience ?
dude won against both bogus and maru and on the other day started bombing out....like a turd...in the wind..
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:18 GMT
#297
On June 05 2019 21:15 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:13 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:12 Fango wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:08 Anc13nt wrote:
if Inno doesn't make Blizzcon again that would suck

On the other hand Trap looks like a lock


yeah Inno needs to win Super tournament or make GSL finals (or at least do well in both) to make Blizzcon in all likelihood. He's in similar situation as last year basically but last year he flopped out of both.

He also doesn't have the form to do either. I'm surprised he even made ro8 here tbh.


Yeah but Inno is the type of guy whose skill can fluctuate a lot in a few months. Too bad because he's looking pretty strong right now but I have hope he might still improve even though its looking bad for him.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 12:19 GMT
#298
On June 05 2019 21:16 Anc13nt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:14 Ej_ wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.

Machine-level rally of liberators right into the eye of the storms!


that's almost as painful as when he lost all his medivacs against Stats or when his medivacs got trapped by Zest

Against Zest he was gonna lose anyway and the medivacs was his last ditch effort.

Here he could have made something happen but stacked all his libs up and lost them to storm.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 12:21:05
June 05 2019 12:19 GMT
#299
I'm so happy there won't be another Terran champion in Code S!
I hope Trap gets to the finals, Classic is way too cheesy for my tastes recently.
Dark can definitely beat herO and ruin the x/x "dream" nonsense.

Edit: Patience is Justice incarnate.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:20 GMT
#300
On June 05 2019 21:19 Fango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:16 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:14 Ej_ wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.

Machine-level rally of liberators right into the eye of the storms!


that's almost as painful as when he lost all his medivacs against Stats or when his medivacs got trapped by Zest

Against Zest he was gonna lose anyway and the medivacs was his last ditch effort.

Here he could have made something happen but stacked all his libs up and lost them to storm.


yeah I thought he was going to get destroyed by sending his medivacs but it put him back in the game until he lost like 4 libs for almost no gain.
kyllinghest
Profile Joined December 2011
Norway1607 Posts
June 05 2019 12:20 GMT
#301
On June 05 2019 21:08 seemsgood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:07 kyllinghest wrote:
Pretty cool series, too bad about the racial distribution for the semis, but we cant really ask Trap to throw more! GG WP to the winners.

but you can always ask bogus not to throw

Indeed!
"NO" -Has
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 12:21 GMT
#302
On June 05 2019 21:17 Fango wrote:
Remember last time Classic won GSL and no one celebrated for him because toss was imba at the time?

What I remember was Classic winning and in a week Zest winning the global Championship tournament from all the regional heroes which overshadowed Classic so much he lost in the next RO32.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6929 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 12:22:39
June 05 2019 12:22 GMT
#303
On June 05 2019 21:15 Anc13nt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.


Hope that doesn't happen. I'm biased but to me Inno looked like the better player but made really sloppy mistakes that costed him


Haven't seen everything yet but IMO Inno was not the better player today. Though it was close. As was this series. Definitely not a series that can be blamed on the "protoss too stronk and imba"-train
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
June 05 2019 12:22 GMT
#304
On June 05 2019 21:18 Anc13nt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:15 Fango wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:13 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:12 Fango wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:08 Anc13nt wrote:
if Inno doesn't make Blizzcon again that would suck

On the other hand Trap looks like a lock


yeah Inno needs to win Super tournament or make GSL finals (or at least do well in both) to make Blizzcon in all likelihood. He's in similar situation as last year basically but last year he flopped out of both.

He also doesn't have the form to do either. I'm surprised he even made ro8 here tbh.


Yeah but Inno is the type of guy whose skill can fluctuate a lot in a few months. Too bad because he's looking pretty strong right now but I have hope he might still improve even though its looking bad for him.

His skill usually fluctuates depending on how well terran does. Almost every time he's he's won terran has been the best race at the time.

I don't think I've even seen him even make ro8 as the sole terran until now.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:24 GMT
#305
On June 05 2019 21:22 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:15 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.


Hope that doesn't happen. I'm biased but to me Inno looked like the better player but made really sloppy mistakes that costed him


Haven't seen everything yet but IMO Inno was not the better player today. Though it was close. As was this series. Definitely not a series that can be blamed on the "protoss too stronk and imba"-train


I just feel like Trap won on the back of prism harrass and the ninja base while Inno won by outmacroing and outmicroing which I find more impressive
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
June 05 2019 12:26 GMT
#306
On June 05 2019 21:24 Anc13nt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:22 Harris1st wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:15 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.


Hope that doesn't happen. I'm biased but to me Inno looked like the better player but made really sloppy mistakes that costed him


Haven't seen everything yet but IMO Inno was not the better player today. Though it was close. As was this series. Definitely not a series that can be blamed on the "protoss too stronk and imba"-train


I just feel like Trap won on the back of prism harrass and the ninja base while Inno won by outmacroing and outmicroing which I find more impressive


^ This, Inno would be pounding on his front door taking expansions and being defended from taking everything by just enough while trap sent a single warp prism into his main or natural.
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 12:27 GMT
#307
trap didnt play too well either everything was pretty Ok ish from him save for game one but bogus s micro was unacceptable today as a terran
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:33 GMT
#308
On June 05 2019 21:27 seemsgood wrote:
trap didnt play too well either everything was pretty Ok ish from him save for game one but bogus s micro was unacceptable today as a terran


admittedly his storm dodging was just bad. I'm watching Maru vs Trap to see what Inno did wrong and I'll admit Maru's reaction time and multitask are a lot better. His defense against warp prism in particular was a lot better. Inno always sent his whole army back whereas Maru just had enough units and micro'd them well enough to deal with harass. In fairness, Trap harassed Inno a lot more intensely than he did against Maruv so that probably made a difference.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:35 GMT
#309
anyway I'm disappointed that Inno lost but grats to Trap; it was a fun series and even though they weren't playing perfectly, they both played well.
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 05 2019 12:37 GMT
#310
On June 05 2019 21:33 Anc13nt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:27 seemsgood wrote:
trap didnt play too well either everything was pretty Ok ish from him save for game one but bogus s micro was unacceptable today as a terran


admittedly his storm dodging was just bad. I'm watching Maru vs Trap to see what Inno did wrong and I'll admit Maru's reaction time and multitask are a lot better. His defense against warp prism in particular was a lot better. Inno always sent his whole army back whereas Maru just had enough units and micro'd them well enough to deal with harass. In fairness, Trap harassed Inno a lot more intensely than he did against Maruv so that probably made a difference.


Trap was outmacroed by Inno but his control(most of the times) and his multitasking were better.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6929 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 12:43:59
June 05 2019 12:40 GMT
#311
On June 05 2019 21:26 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:24 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:22 Harris1st wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:15 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.


Hope that doesn't happen. I'm biased but to me Inno looked like the better player but made really sloppy mistakes that costed him


Haven't seen everything yet but IMO Inno was not the better player today. Though it was close. As was this series. Definitely not a series that can be blamed on the "protoss too stronk and imba"-train


I just feel like Trap won on the back of prism harrass and the ninja base while Inno won by outmacroing and outmicroing which I find more impressive


^ This, Inno would be pounding on his front door taking expansions and being defended from taking everything by just enough while trap sent a single warp prism into his main or natural.


Maybe that is just me but when a single warp prism kills/ cripples you, you are not playing well. Specially multiple times in a row. Get a turret and a cyclone and voilà, you are safe.


Edit: There is a reason people don't try this as much vs Maru or Serral. They don't take damage and it's almost never worth it.

Edit2: Look how well Trap defendend most of the drops from Inno. Almost never took damage
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 12:46:04
June 05 2019 12:41 GMT
#312
On June 05 2019 21:37 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:33 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:27 seemsgood wrote:
trap didnt play too well either everything was pretty Ok ish from him save for game one but bogus s micro was unacceptable today as a terran


admittedly his storm dodging was just bad. I'm watching Maru vs Trap to see what Inno did wrong and I'll admit Maru's reaction time and multitask are a lot better. His defense against warp prism in particular was a lot better. Inno always sent his whole army back whereas Maru just had enough units and micro'd them well enough to deal with harass. In fairness, Trap harassed Inno a lot more intensely than he did against Maruv so that probably made a difference.


Trap was outmacroed by Inno but his control(most of the times) and his multitasking were better.


Yeah I've felt the same about his multitask. I think his decision making and strategy are actually pretty good but he sometimes plays too decisively and either gives up his timing or creates an all in situation that didn't need to happen.

Edit: In terms of micro, his splitting is still really good but he suffers because his reaction time and multitask (which seem to be pretty related) aren't Maru-level. Whenever Maru got psi-stormed, he reacted lightning fast whereas Inno was walking in and out of storms for days. That might be why Inno succeeds with his timing-based style, because it requires less multitask but more macro and tech unit usage. which play to his strengths (I think that's why his TvT is so strong). Maru on the other hand is a lot more dynamic and even though he does a lot of timings too, his defense/transitions are a lot better (he gets his third running faster it feels like).
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 12:50 GMT
#313
On June 05 2019 21:40 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:26 renaissanceMAN wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:24 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:22 Harris1st wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:15 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.


Hope that doesn't happen. I'm biased but to me Inno looked like the better player but made really sloppy mistakes that costed him


Haven't seen everything yet but IMO Inno was not the better player today. Though it was close. As was this series. Definitely not a series that can be blamed on the "protoss too stronk and imba"-train


I just feel like Trap won on the back of prism harrass and the ninja base while Inno won by outmacroing and outmicroing which I find more impressive


^ This, Inno would be pounding on his front door taking expansions and being defended from taking everything by just enough while trap sent a single warp prism into his main or natural.


Maybe that is just me but when a single warp prism kills/ cripples you, you are not playing well. Specially multiple times in a row. Get a turret and a cyclone and voilà, you are safe.


Edit: There is a reason people don't try this as much vs Maru or Serral. They don't take damage and it's almost never worth it.

Edit2: Look how well Trap defendend most of the drops from Inno. Almost never took damage


hindsight is 20/20 but the reason why Inno's timings are so strong is precisely because he doesn't do those things. Looking back, I agree that he should've done what you said but it wasn't immediately obvious that that was the right choice. For a while It really did look like his timing would win the series in the last game (since the templar archives got unpowered) but it turned out to be barely too late.
DreamlnCode
Profile Joined December 2018
United Kingdom77 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 12:53:39
June 05 2019 12:53 GMT
#314
Yeh, I think i'm done watching for the season, unless the planets align and Dark makes the finals.

You can't take a 'Wait and See' approach to balancing the game when you created these glaring issues in the first place without fixing them. But at this point I think Blizzard has enough problems to deal with before they even think about addressing this.
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 05 2019 13:02 GMT
#315
On June 05 2019 21:33 Anc13nt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:27 seemsgood wrote:
trap didnt play too well either everything was pretty Ok ish from him save for game one but bogus s micro was unacceptable today as a terran


admittedly his storm dodging was just bad. I'm watching Maru vs Trap to see what Inno did wrong and I'll admit Maru's reaction time and multitask are a lot better. His defense against warp prism in particular was a lot better. Inno always sent his whole army back whereas Maru just had enough units and micro'd them well enough to deal with harass. In fairness, Trap harassed Inno a lot more intensely than he did against Maruv so that probably made a difference.


On June 05 2019 21:40 Harris1st wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:26 renaissanceMAN wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:24 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:22 Harris1st wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:15 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.


Hope that doesn't happen. I'm biased but to me Inno looked like the better player but made really sloppy mistakes that costed him


Haven't seen everything yet but IMO Inno was not the better player today. Though it was close. As was this series. Definitely not a series that can be blamed on the "protoss too stronk and imba"-train


I just feel like Trap won on the back of prism harrass and the ninja base while Inno won by outmacroing and outmicroing which I find more impressive


^ This, Inno would be pounding on his front door taking expansions and being defended from taking everything by just enough while trap sent a single warp prism into his main or natural.


Maybe that is just me but when a single warp prism kills/ cripples you, you are not playing well. Specially multiple times in a row. Get a turret and a cyclone and voilà, you are safe.


Edit: There is a reason people don't try this as much vs Maru or Serral. They don't take damage and it's almost never worth it.

Edit2: Look how well Trap defendend most of the drops from Inno. Almost never took damage

its because dude never really wanted to play long game against P and harrassing really hurt his timing all in so his style s better suited for small map or shitty spawn cobalt . i dont know but bogus s play in the later stage of the game feels pretty reluctant to me
maru and serral just let the opponent throws whatever he wants and react to it
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 13:34 GMT
#316
On June 05 2019 22:02 seemsgood wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:33 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:27 seemsgood wrote:
trap didnt play too well either everything was pretty Ok ish from him save for game one but bogus s micro was unacceptable today as a terran


admittedly his storm dodging was just bad. I'm watching Maru vs Trap to see what Inno did wrong and I'll admit Maru's reaction time and multitask are a lot better. His defense against warp prism in particular was a lot better. Inno always sent his whole army back whereas Maru just had enough units and micro'd them well enough to deal with harass. In fairness, Trap harassed Inno a lot more intensely than he did against Maruv so that probably made a difference.


Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:40 Harris1st wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:26 renaissanceMAN wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:24 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:22 Harris1st wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:15 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 05 2019 21:13 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Called it 4 days ago:

On June 02 2019 09:32 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Classic beats soO, Trap beats Inno, Parting beats Hurricane and Dark beats herO. Trap > Classic, Parting > Dark with Trap taking the whole thing.


Into executed like a machine and still couldn't beat an arguably lesser player.


Hope that doesn't happen. I'm biased but to me Inno looked like the better player but made really sloppy mistakes that costed him


Haven't seen everything yet but IMO Inno was not the better player today. Though it was close. As was this series. Definitely not a series that can be blamed on the "protoss too stronk and imba"-train


I just feel like Trap won on the back of prism harrass and the ninja base while Inno won by outmacroing and outmicroing which I find more impressive


^ This, Inno would be pounding on his front door taking expansions and being defended from taking everything by just enough while trap sent a single warp prism into his main or natural.


Maybe that is just me but when a single warp prism kills/ cripples you, you are not playing well. Specially multiple times in a row. Get a turret and a cyclone and voilà, you are safe.


Edit: There is a reason people don't try this as much vs Maru or Serral. They don't take damage and it's almost never worth it.

Edit2: Look how well Trap defendend most of the drops from Inno. Almost never took damage

its because dude never really wanted to play long game against P and harrassing really hurt his timing all in so his style s better suited for small map or shitty spawn cobalt . i dont know but bogus s play in the later stage of the game feels pretty reluctant to me
maru and serral just let the opponent throws whatever he wants and react to it

In that case do a proper all-in, take most of the SCVs and let Trap go into a basetrade. This was a push intended to kill Protoss while the Protoss couldn't kill your production(when your production isn't supporting the push). It seems to be too indecisive.

I get where you aim, I just think that under the current circumstances you have to take the SCVs or prepare defense against a drop. You can't do a half baked solution nowadays. But maybe I'm too harsh on Terrans, in the end I am a very bad Terran. So I may see it wrong
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
NbaLover
Profile Joined May 2019
24 Posts
June 05 2019 13:58 GMT
#317
On June 05 2019 21:53 DreamlnCode wrote:
Yeh, I think i'm done watching for the season, unless the planets align and Dark makes the finals.

You can't take a 'Wait and See' approach to balancing the game when you created these glaring issues in the first place without fixing them. But at this point I think Blizzard has enough problems to deal with before they even think about addressing this.


Good, we don't really want a cry baby anyways. Balance is fine, terran just need to learn to git gud

I'm just glad we can finally enjoy a GSL final without a Terran in it.

As long as we get to see dark in the final, it's all good. (unless he does his usual chokejob)
DreamlnCode
Profile Joined December 2018
United Kingdom77 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 14:11:16
June 05 2019 14:10 GMT
#318
On June 05 2019 22:58 NbaLover wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:53 DreamlnCode wrote:
Yeh, I think i'm done watching for the season, unless the planets align and Dark makes the finals.

You can't take a 'Wait and See' approach to balancing the game when you created these glaring issues in the first place without fixing them. But at this point I think Blizzard has enough problems to deal with before they even think about addressing this.


Good, we don't really want a cry baby anyways. Balance is fine, terran just need to learn to git gud

I'm just glad we can finally enjoy a GSL final without a Terran in it.

As long as we get to see dark in the final, it's all good. (unless he does his usual chokejob)


ha, much english, very clear.

You'd have to be blind to not see a current problem in all match-ups, but of course it's more comforting to blame a single race.
burnturn
Profile Joined December 2015
United States59 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 14:36:53
June 05 2019 14:36 GMT
#319
PartinG is going to make the finals vs. Classic calling it now.
sOs is best
yyltyler
Profile Joined February 2018
23 Posts
June 05 2019 14:45 GMT
#320
Only looking at the numbers PvT is balanced. So far it is 53% this season and 43% in WCS spring.
Morbidius
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil3449 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 15:11:15
June 05 2019 15:10 GMT
#321
On June 05 2019 21:08 Anc13nt wrote:
if Inno doesn't make Blizzcon again that would suck

What will suck more is that we are probably getting 5/8 Protoss at Blizzcon. Dark and soO are locked in, but for another Zerg to do it they would probably need to win Season 3 or get a miracle run in the remaining tournaments. Gumiho might get surpassed by Parting soon, and then he and Inno will really need something special to get in too.
Has foreign StarCraft hit rock bottom?
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States445 Posts
June 05 2019 15:37 GMT
#322
Soo v Classic was a terrible series.

Inno v Trap was super close, could have gone either way. Warp prism looking super strong as always and the harass really dictated the series. Terran really can't afford to let those in and get a full warp in round. Feel like in general Terran doesn't have the leeway to make as many mistakes as protoss.
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 05 2019 15:39 GMT
#323
On June 06 2019 00:10 Morbidius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2019 21:08 Anc13nt wrote:
if Inno doesn't make Blizzcon again that would suck

What will suck more is that we are probably getting 5/8 Protoss at Blizzcon. Dark and soO are locked in, but for another Zerg to do it they would probably need to win Season 3 or get a miracle run in the remaining tournaments. Gumiho might get surpassed by Parting soon, and then he and Inno will really need something special to get in too.


Either Hurricane or PartinG will necessarily surpass Gumiho, but he could still be in a good spot to make BlizzCon if he puts up good results again.

GSL sent four Protoss already in 2016 and 2018, and Korean Protoss were always the relative majority at BlizzCon with the only exceptions being 2017(GSL sent two) and 2013(there were eight Terran).
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-05 16:47:48
June 05 2019 16:43 GMT
#324
Cobalt is the silliest map Ive ever seen, hoping someone makes a map with multiple ledges that fit one or two siege tanks hidden by fog and call it Reverse Cobalt, god thats a garbage map, anyways, really sad for Inno, he played really well today. I cant see Trap ever beating Classic with this level of play, at least its fine if Classic wins it all, he is a great player.
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
AzAlexZ
Profile Joined September 2016
Australia3303 Posts
June 05 2019 16:44 GMT
#325
On June 05 2019 05:50 AzAlexZ wrote:
(P)Classic 3:1 (Z)soO
(P)Trap 3:2 (T)INnoVation

Although Trap vs Inno could go both ways, so I wouldn't be surprised if any of the two takes it

XD
Faker is the GOAT!
kajtarp
Profile Joined April 2011
Hungary483 Posts
June 05 2019 17:09 GMT
#326
I would like to blame balance, because i think Immortals and prisms are a bit op, but why on earth is soO not researching overlord speed? Hes so bad with the scouting almost every time with his slowass overlords...
Why so serious?
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
June 05 2019 18:09 GMT
#327
Lol innovation
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
franzji
Profile Joined September 2013
United States583 Posts
June 05 2019 19:00 GMT
#328
Honestly, I'm just sad that players like Classic and Trap don't get credit for their wins.

Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft.

Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3.

Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot.
M2
Profile Joined December 2002
Bulgaria4116 Posts
June 05 2019 20:10 GMT
#329
I dont know, somehow I dont think that the protosses won these two particular series based on imbalances, in my opinion they won by abusing the shit that are supposed to be abused by protosses to win by design.
Knife kitty, night kitty, put you on a slab. Stealthy kitty, hunter kitty, stab stab stab :-)
NbaLover
Profile Joined May 2019
24 Posts
June 05 2019 21:09 GMT
#330
On June 06 2019 04:00 youngjiddle wrote:
Honestly, I'm just sad that players like Classic and Trap don't get credit for their wins.

Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft.

Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3.

Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot.


That's the current mindset of the Protoss haters / Terran whiners.

Any non bias fan can see that currently Classic is the best player in Korea, but since he plays Protoss he will never get that respect.

Inno has always been average in TVP, but easier to blame Trap and "PROTOSSED" rather than admitting Inno didn't play well in G5 where he stacked 4 libs into storm

Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States445 Posts
June 05 2019 21:47 GMT
#331
On June 06 2019 06:09 NbaLover wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 04:00 youngjiddle wrote:
Honestly, I'm just sad that players like Classic and Trap don't get credit for their wins.

Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft.

Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3.

Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot.


That's the current mindset of the Protoss haters / Terran whiners.

Any non bias fan can see that currently Classic is the best player in Korea, but since he plays Protoss he will never get that respect.

Inno has always been average in TVP, but easier to blame Trap and "PROTOSSED" rather than admitting Inno didn't play well in G5 where he stacked 4 libs into storm



Basically everyone says Classic is the best player atm. Hes the favorite to win the tournament....
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 05 2019 21:49 GMT
#332
On June 06 2019 06:47 Moonerz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 06:09 NbaLover wrote:
On June 06 2019 04:00 youngjiddle wrote:
Honestly, I'm just sad that players like Classic and Trap don't get credit for their wins.

Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft.

Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3.

Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot.


That's the current mindset of the Protoss haters / Terran whiners.

Any non bias fan can see that currently Classic is the best player in Korea, but since he plays Protoss he will never get that respect.

Inno has always been average in TVP, but easier to blame Trap and "PROTOSSED" rather than admitting Inno didn't play well in G5 where he stacked 4 libs into storm



Basically everyone says Classic is the best player atm. Hes the favorite to win the tournament....

But that doesn't fit his story about whiners
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Nakajin
Profile Blog Joined September 2014
Canada8989 Posts
June 05 2019 21:52 GMT
#333
On June 06 2019 02:09 kajtarp wrote:
I would like to blame balance, because i think Immortals and prisms are a bit op, but why on earth is soO not researching overlord speed? Hes so bad with the scouting almost every time with his slowass overlords...


You should go watch In-Dept episode(s) about robo opening vs zerg, they talked a lot about the pro and cons of getting overlord speed. Basically the con was that the 100 gas can in certain scenario make it impossible to defend some attack so maybe it's better to have sub part scouting but make a guts call with what you saw than invest 100 gas to scout what's gonna kill you.

They explained it with way more details than me
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/9p6ufcB.jpg
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 05 2019 21:53 GMT
#334
On June 06 2019 06:09 NbaLover wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 04:00 youngjiddle wrote:
Honestly, I'm just sad that players like Classic and Trap don't get credit for their wins.

Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft.

Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3.

Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot.


That's the current mindset of the Protoss haters / Terran whiners.

Any non bias fan can see that currently Classic is the best player in Korea, but since he plays Protoss he will never get that respect.

Inno has always been average in TVP, but easier to blame Trap and "PROTOSSED" rather than admitting Inno didn't play well in G5 where he stacked 4 libs into storm



To be honest, I'm not convinced that Classic is the best player in Korea; he is the most consistent and he is having the best results, for sure.
IshinShishi
Profile Joined April 2012
Japan6156 Posts
June 05 2019 22:19 GMT
#335
It's hard to evaluate with the game in its current state, but Classic is for sure the best toss player.
So... what that make you? Good? You're not good. You just know how to hide, how to lie
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25342 Posts
June 05 2019 22:21 GMT
#336
On June 06 2019 06:52 Nakajin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 02:09 kajtarp wrote:
I would like to blame balance, because i think Immortals and prisms are a bit op, but why on earth is soO not researching overlord speed? Hes so bad with the scouting almost every time with his slowass overlords...


You should go watch In-Dept episode(s) about robo opening vs zerg, they talked a lot about the pro and cons of getting overlord speed. Basically the con was that the 100 gas can in certain scenario make it impossible to defend some attack so maybe it's better to have sub part scouting but make a guts call with what you saw than invest 100 gas to scout what's gonna kill you.

They explained it with way more details than me

I think NoRegret said ‘you just get to see what is about to kill you a little before it does’ or something like that.

Some of the speedier timings hit before you can get your speed ovies in and react to that information, as you say.

It definitely does look useful for sniffing out some other builds or ones that hit a bit later, as shown in some other games from that In Depth episode.

Perhaps Zergs will figure out some kind of scouting flow chart that works for them, I can’t really figure out a way for the. To reliably do it though. I’d personally like to see slightly faster base speed for overlords, not by a huge amount but how many times do they just miss the scout barely?

Zerg need a stock unit that isn’t hard countered by Protoss as hard in that phase of the game.

I mean they don’t need anything, those are my personal preferences but I think PvZ is by a distance the worst matchup in the game because of hard counters.

It’s a matchup where (almost always) Protoss tries to disguise or fake out some funky all in, then the Zerg has to figure a response, if they pick wrong they die pretty hard, if they pick right they usually win pretty hard.

Banes can shred Protoss melee, but are terrible if it’s actually a sentry heavy push, Roaches do well enough against melee but get shredded by Immortals. Hydras are decent but you usually don’t have enough units if it’s a real early push. But if you misread and don’t tech to hydras and go roach heavy Immortals destroy you.

Much respect to Classic for some really crisp and smart builds for sure, but the matchup really isn’t in a satisfying place for me as a viewer. It usually comes down to a single push, and I’m not a soothsayer but I’ve watched enough Starcraft to know before the push even hits who is going to win, about 90% of the time.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 05 2019 22:27 GMT
#337
On June 06 2019 07:21 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 06:52 Nakajin wrote:
On June 06 2019 02:09 kajtarp wrote:
I would like to blame balance, because i think Immortals and prisms are a bit op, but why on earth is soO not researching overlord speed? Hes so bad with the scouting almost every time with his slowass overlords...


You should go watch In-Dept episode(s) about robo opening vs zerg, they talked a lot about the pro and cons of getting overlord speed. Basically the con was that the 100 gas can in certain scenario make it impossible to defend some attack so maybe it's better to have sub part scouting but make a guts call with what you saw than invest 100 gas to scout what's gonna kill you.

They explained it with way more details than me

I think NoRegret said ‘you just get to see what is about to kill you a little before it does’ or something like that.

Some of the speedier timings hit before you can get your speed ovies in and react to that information, as you say.

It definitely does look useful for sniffing out some other builds or ones that hit a bit later, as shown in some other games from that In Depth episode.

Perhaps Zergs will figure out some kind of scouting flow chart that works for them, I can’t really figure out a way for the. To reliably do it though. I’d personally like to see slightly faster base speed for overlords, not by a huge amount but how many times do they just miss the scout barely?

Zerg need a stock unit that isn’t hard countered by Protoss as hard in that phase of the game.

I mean they don’t need anything, those are my personal preferences but I think PvZ is by a distance the worst matchup in the game because of hard counters.

It’s a matchup where (almost always) Protoss tries to disguise or fake out some funky all in, then the Zerg has to figure a response, if they pick wrong they die pretty hard, if they pick right they usually win pretty hard.

Banes can shred Protoss melee, but are terrible if it’s actually a sentry heavy push, Roaches do well enough against melee but get shredded by Immortals. Hydras are decent but you usually don’t have enough units if it’s a real early push. But if you misread and don’t tech to hydras and go roach heavy Immortals destroy you.

Much respect to Classic for some really crisp and smart builds for sure, but the matchup really isn’t in a satisfying place for me as a viewer. It usually comes down to a single push, and I’m not a soothsayer but I’ve watched enough Starcraft to know before the push even hits who is going to win, about 90% of the time.


The matchup was much more enjoyable before 2019(Nyduses first and Immortal pushes this last patch made TvZ a cheese/all in fest).
NbaLover
Profile Joined May 2019
24 Posts
June 05 2019 22:38 GMT
#338
On June 06 2019 06:53 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 06:09 NbaLover wrote:
On June 06 2019 04:00 youngjiddle wrote:
Honestly, I'm just sad that players like Classic and Trap don't get credit for their wins.

Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft.

Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3.

Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot.


That's the current mindset of the Protoss haters / Terran whiners.

Any non bias fan can see that currently Classic is the best player in Korea, but since he plays Protoss he will never get that respect.

Inno has always been average in TVP, but easier to blame Trap and "PROTOSSED" rather than admitting Inno didn't play well in G5 where he stacked 4 libs into storm



To be honest, I'm not convinced that Classic is the best player in Korea; he is the most consistent and he is having the best results, for sure.


Based on 2019 result and current form, we can only assume he is the "currently" the best at this very moment.

Dark is a close 2nd for me. We all know he is great and consistent but god damn it I just want him to start winning something instead of all these Top 4, Top 2 finishes. Such a fun trash talking personality.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25342 Posts
June 05 2019 22:40 GMT
#339
On June 06 2019 04:00 youngjiddle wrote:
Honestly, I'm just sad that players like Classic and Trap don't get credit for their wins.

Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft.

Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3.

Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot.

Would be nice yeah. Classic against soO wasn’t enjoyable, but I found it an admirable series for the reasons you said. Trap Inno were pretty good macro PvT games and pretty back and forth too

Trap’s hold and counter was great play in game 5, I would have brought my prism and those units back to hold, but he made a great call, held narrowly and did a lot of counter damage.

I’m not sure if people are unaware at this stage or just wilfully ignore how hard Protoss lategame armies are to control and split in PvT, but yeah the chats will just be full of ‘A move Protoss’
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25342 Posts
June 05 2019 22:48 GMT
#340
On June 06 2019 07:27 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 07:21 Wombat_NI wrote:
On June 06 2019 06:52 Nakajin wrote:
On June 06 2019 02:09 kajtarp wrote:
I would like to blame balance, because i think Immortals and prisms are a bit op, but why on earth is soO not researching overlord speed? Hes so bad with the scouting almost every time with his slowass overlords...


You should go watch In-Dept episode(s) about robo opening vs zerg, they talked a lot about the pro and cons of getting overlord speed. Basically the con was that the 100 gas can in certain scenario make it impossible to defend some attack so maybe it's better to have sub part scouting but make a guts call with what you saw than invest 100 gas to scout what's gonna kill you.

They explained it with way more details than me

I think NoRegret said ‘you just get to see what is about to kill you a little before it does’ or something like that.

Some of the speedier timings hit before you can get your speed ovies in and react to that information, as you say.

It definitely does look useful for sniffing out some other builds or ones that hit a bit later, as shown in some other games from that In Depth episode.

Perhaps Zergs will figure out some kind of scouting flow chart that works for them, I can’t really figure out a way for the. To reliably do it though. I’d personally like to see slightly faster base speed for overlords, not by a huge amount but how many times do they just miss the scout barely?

Zerg need a stock unit that isn’t hard countered by Protoss as hard in that phase of the game.

I mean they don’t need anything, those are my personal preferences but I think PvZ is by a distance the worst matchup in the game because of hard counters.

It’s a matchup where (almost always) Protoss tries to disguise or fake out some funky all in, then the Zerg has to figure a response, if they pick wrong they die pretty hard, if they pick right they usually win pretty hard.

Banes can shred Protoss melee, but are terrible if it’s actually a sentry heavy push, Roaches do well enough against melee but get shredded by Immortals. Hydras are decent but you usually don’t have enough units if it’s a real early push. But if you misread and don’t tech to hydras and go roach heavy Immortals destroy you.

Much respect to Classic for some really crisp and smart builds for sure, but the matchup really isn’t in a satisfying place for me as a viewer. It usually comes down to a single push, and I’m not a soothsayer but I’ve watched enough Starcraft to know before the push even hits who is going to win, about 90% of the time.


The matchup was much more enjoyable before 2019(Nyduses first and Immortal pushes this last patch made TvZ a cheese/all in fest).

It absolutely sucks to my tastes anyway, I think PvZ on balance has been my most disliked matchup for most of SC2, bar some small periods.

I’ve only seen real top level games of the game last patch, it many aside from that, actually quite liked the state of the matchup there. Ok so maybe Serral v Stats etc are a small sample size where I haven’t maybe seen games below that level and what they looked like, seemed pretty decent. Maybe it lead to many terrible games too in other tournies I haven’t seen.



'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 05 2019 23:41 GMT
#341
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.
sudete
Profile Joined December 2012
Singapore3054 Posts
June 06 2019 00:15 GMT
#342
The funniest thing that is being said is that inno played perfectly. He was way cleaner in those alphaX and olimoleague games against classic (5-1) and trap (3-1). I guess online inno is beyond perfect now
Year of MaxPax
necrosexy
Profile Joined March 2011
451 Posts
June 06 2019 04:05 GMT
#343
On June 06 2019 09:15 sudete wrote:
The funniest thing that is being said is that inno played perfectly. He was way cleaner in those alphaX and olimoleague games against classic (5-1) and trap (3-1). I guess online inno is beyond perfect now

in other words, inno choked
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10078 Posts
June 06 2019 04:08 GMT
#344
what a great series between inno and trap.
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
ZigguratOfUr
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Iraq16955 Posts
June 06 2019 04:50 GMT
#345
On June 06 2019 08:41 Anc13nt wrote:
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.


Why do you think Zerg is strong? If you look solely at this GSL and other recent results PvZ seems harder for zerg than PvT is for terran.
Anc13nt
Profile Blog Joined October 2017
1557 Posts
June 06 2019 05:42 GMT
#346
On June 06 2019 13:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 08:41 Anc13nt wrote:
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.


Why do you think Zerg is strong? If you look solely at this GSL and other recent results PvZ seems harder for zerg than PvT is for terran.


honestly, I'm mainly basing it off of Aligulac stats. Korean zerg have been historically at GSL so I don't think it's the best indication of zerg doing bad. In WESG and IEM they are still doing fine. Also, while WCS is not as competitive, I think foreign zerg like Reynor and Serral are at a comparable skill level with other Korean zerg so if you include the foreigners into the discussion of racial balance, the zerg race gets the biggest boost. Rogue might have fallen off but there's still Dark, soO and Serral (maybe also Reynor) doing very well. Whereas for terran only top 10 player I'd argue is Maru. Gumiho, TY and Inno are still good but i'm reluctant to consider them as top 10 players.

Overall, I admit Zerg is only doing ok whereas Protoss is doing the best so I will walk back on saying both Zerg and Protoss are strong. I still believe the balance isn't much worse than 2017 when terran dominated or in 2018 when zerg seemed to be the best race overall.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-06 07:23:04
June 06 2019 07:21 GMT
#347
On June 06 2019 14:42 Anc13nt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 13:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On June 06 2019 08:41 Anc13nt wrote:
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.


Why do you think Zerg is strong? If you look solely at this GSL and other recent results PvZ seems harder for zerg than PvT is for terran.


honestly, I'm mainly basing it off of Aligulac stats. Korean zerg have been historically at GSL so I don't think it's the best indication of zerg doing bad. In WESG and IEM they are still doing fine. Also, while WCS is not as competitive, I think foreign zerg like Reynor and Serral are at a comparable skill level with other Korean zerg so if you include the foreigners into the discussion of racial balance, the zerg race gets the biggest boost. Rogue might have fallen off but there's still Dark, soO and Serral (maybe also Reynor) doing very well. Whereas for terran only top 10 player I'd argue is Maru. Gumiho, TY and Inno are still good but i'm reluctant to consider them as top 10 players.

Overall, I admit Zerg is only doing ok whereas Protoss is doing the best so I will walk back on saying both Zerg and Protoss are strong. I still believe the balance isn't much worse than 2017 when terran dominated or in 2018 when zerg seemed to be the best race overall.

Yeah, when the qualifiers have mostly zergs then it looks like zergs are doing fine(WESG). The next time we can use some Zerg weekly - look, Zerg won, everything's fine.

FYI The last international result with Koreans allowed made Reynor place 29-36 at Katowice. He's not exactly the good Zerg you're looking for in the terms of comparison to Koreans considering soO won the whole thing and how far Dark & Solar get. Maybe in the future when he's more stable in the result department.

Zerg is underrepresented in the Korean competition for more than 2 seasons. And the Terrans were underrepresented recently too but since MAru was winning Code S titles nobody cared. The game isn't balanced, if you don't play enough PvT the numbers can pretend they're balanced.

If you go from the premise the game is balanced then there should be equal-ish balance of players. And sorry not sorry, but if you would name to many people some of the RO16 Protosses and over whom they advanced many people would tell you it's impossible.

It's not just maps(previous map pool was very anti-terran), it's the game desibgn and balance. Aligulac isn't allpowerful tool. And you're rather to dismiss good players as being bad and bad players as miraculously getting good than going into - something is wrong? Seriously? Even when you look at the state of the current PvZ? (also WCS doesn't have that good Protosses so it may shift the global numbers)

Edit> Also I don't know what were Zergs historically at GSL, but let me introduce to soO with his multiple final appearances in a row which was just quite recently beaten by Maru. It held for years... He is zerg. So I guess historically they were strong?
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Tyrhanius
Profile Joined April 2011
France947 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-06 07:45:57
June 06 2019 07:37 GMT
#348
On June 06 2019 08:41 Anc13nt wrote:
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.

Zerg didn't do well in GSL, mostly because the area where they were strong were really short, and didn't last enough for a GSL.

For example, Rogue had good results with hydras, but they split them again before he could reach GSL finals.

Same with drop overlord, they nerfed it a few days before the semi-final of the GSL, an both zerg were eliminated. Nyndus nerf happenned really fast, etc...

On the meantime, it took age to have the proxy reaper nerf, and Byun eliminated Dark twice during this area. Could he have done that without reapers ? I doubt it.

After, they reworked tanks, and started the Innovation area. Also TY, and gumiho did great this time, actually the best result of their carrer, as they never won a premier tournament before.

And after, Maru domination started, and Maru could enjoyed the mass raven enough to win a GSL. It got nerfed, but he got buffs to other things. And the strange part is where was Maru when Byun, Innovation, gumiho were winning if he were that good ?

It looks like that some Terran have some prefered playstyle and depending on the meta/balance one different terran performed.
But zerg on the other side have never got a period of time long enough where they can enjoy "to be OP", like T did.

Also there is the Serral effect, where you see balance team nerfing zerg in order to lower the gap between Serral and other players in the foreigner scene.

So sure, when the best T Serral usually fight is uthermal or special, or the best P protoss Neeb or showtime, nerfing zerg doesn't seem to affect much Serral results.

But when Dark/soo fight Innovation/Maru, or Classic/Stats, it's way different, and it makes kor Zerg impossible to compete vs P/T in korea because they're no such a skill gap like between Serral and the foreigners players.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6929 Posts
June 06 2019 08:42 GMT
#349
On June 06 2019 16:37 Tyrhanius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 08:41 Anc13nt wrote:
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.

Zerg didn't do well in GSL, mostly because the area where they were strong were really short, and didn't last enough for a GSL.

For example, Rogue had good results with hydras, but they split them again before he could reach GSL finals.

Same with drop overlord, they nerfed it a few days before the semi-final of the GSL, an both zerg were eliminated. Nyndus nerf happenned really fast, etc...

On the meantime, it took age to have the proxy reaper nerf, and Byun eliminated Dark twice during this area. Could he have done that without reapers ? I doubt it.

After, they reworked tanks, and started the Innovation area. Also TY, and gumiho did great this time, actually the best result of their carrer, as they never won a premier tournament before.

And after, Maru domination started, and Maru could enjoyed the mass raven enough to win a GSL. It got nerfed, but he got buffs to other things. And the strange part is where was Maru when Byun, Innovation, gumiho were winning if he were that good ?

It looks like that some Terran have some prefered playstyle and depending on the meta/balance one different terran performed.
But zerg on the other side have never got a period of time long enough where they can enjoy "to be OP", like T did.

Also there is the Serral effect, where you see balance team nerfing zerg in order to lower the gap between Serral and other players in the foreigner scene.

So sure, when the best T Serral usually fight is uthermal or special, or the best P protoss Neeb or showtime, nerfing zerg doesn't seem to affect much Serral results.

But when Dark/soo fight Innovation/Maru, or Classic/Stats, it's way different, and it makes kor Zerg impossible to compete vs P/T in korea because they're no such a skill gap like between Serral and the foreigners players.


Well there was the GGlord/ Infestor times when Zerg was bonkers.

Also I don't think Blizz nerfs anything to keep Serral in line. The Nydus nerf was because it was a no skill gg timing attack and was absotely the right call.

We are still waiting for Blizz to address the WP+Immo problem. Haven't heard anything from the balance team in ages. Blizz is to busy commiting suicide right now apparently

Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
June 06 2019 11:03 GMT
#350
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Now I am almost happy I did not have the time to watch. C'mon, neither Inno nor soO in the finals? Lame!
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25342 Posts
June 06 2019 12:22 GMT
#351
On June 06 2019 16:21 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 14:42 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 06 2019 13:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On June 06 2019 08:41 Anc13nt wrote:
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.


Why do you think Zerg is strong? If you look solely at this GSL and other recent results PvZ seems harder for zerg than PvT is for terran.


honestly, I'm mainly basing it off of Aligulac stats. Korean zerg have been historically at GSL so I don't think it's the best indication of zerg doing bad. In WESG and IEM they are still doing fine. Also, while WCS is not as competitive, I think foreign zerg like Reynor and Serral are at a comparable skill level with other Korean zerg so if you include the foreigners into the discussion of racial balance, the zerg race gets the biggest boost. Rogue might have fallen off but there's still Dark, soO and Serral (maybe also Reynor) doing very well. Whereas for terran only top 10 player I'd argue is Maru. Gumiho, TY and Inno are still good but i'm reluctant to consider them as top 10 players.

Overall, I admit Zerg is only doing ok whereas Protoss is doing the best so I will walk back on saying both Zerg and Protoss are strong. I still believe the balance isn't much worse than 2017 when terran dominated or in 2018 when zerg seemed to be the best race overall.

Yeah, when the qualifiers have mostly zergs then it looks like zergs are doing fine(WESG). The next time we can use some Zerg weekly - look, Zerg won, everything's fine.

FYI The last international result with Koreans allowed made Reynor place 29-36 at Katowice. He's not exactly the good Zerg you're looking for in the terms of comparison to Koreans considering soO won the whole thing and how far Dark & Solar get. Maybe in the future when he's more stable in the result department.

Zerg is underrepresented in the Korean competition for more than 2 seasons. And the Terrans were underrepresented recently too but since MAru was winning Code S titles nobody cared. The game isn't balanced, if you don't play enough PvT the numbers can pretend they're balanced.

If you go from the premise the game is balanced then there should be equal-ish balance of players. And sorry not sorry, but if you would name to many people some of the RO16 Protosses and over whom they advanced many people would tell you it's impossible.

It's not just maps(previous map pool was very anti-terran), it's the game desibgn and balance. Aligulac isn't allpowerful tool. And you're rather to dismiss good players as being bad and bad players as miraculously getting good than going into - something is wrong? Seriously? Even when you look at the state of the current PvZ? (also WCS doesn't have that good Protosses so it may shift the global numbers)

Edit> Also I don't know what were Zergs historically at GSL, but let me introduce to soO with his multiple final appearances in a row which was just quite recently beaten by Maru. It held for years... He is zerg. So I guess historically they were strong?

In theory yes, if Korea had a more vibrant scene with new blood and new talent coming through. Some people will say that and be wrong and would have you think all these long standing title winning Protoss players with good pro league records all suck and Protoss their opponents.

Distribution isn’t that terrible at the Ro32 anyway, but for it to be good down the line Terrans really need their ‘big 4’ to all be in shape at the same time, which never seems to happen, or have some of the next tier of Terrans have really good runs and a few of the big guys to be in shape.

There’s nothing that really stands out reading over the results and having watched the games as crazy, Patience coming out first and Rogue and Ty losing first on paper yeah but they seemed reasonably watching how everyone played on the day.

Protoss are a daunting gauntlet to run for sure though, it’s also the most varied race in styles by a distance. Cure is kind of like Maru, just a bit worse (who isn’t?), Patience does not play like Stats but worse, it’s like playing two totally different players. So groups with multiple Protoss become really difficult to prep for.

PvZ seems to have the most actual issues, or at least has the most underwhelming matches, but I don’t see how you fix those without making Zerg just straight up too strong. Classic has been winning vZs these last two seasons vs good Zergs with really tight prepped builds to the maps laid out in advance. If Zergs can more reliably play reactively against the tightest prepped builds, or even worse be blindly safe to most, then the less tight versions that don’t cut every corner you see in weekenders they’ll absolutely crush those.

I’d absolutely like things to be more competitive and have Zergs break their GSL duck for sure, I’m just wary of making them too outright strong.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
June 06 2019 12:42 GMT
#352
tournament threads have been like shit lately i really miss the community update post
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States445 Posts
June 06 2019 13:28 GMT
#353
One of the weirdest things to me is that Zest and Stats arguably two of the best Toss to ever do it haven't made any results this year (in Korea).

Without a league like Proleague giving us constant games it is so hard to get an accurate picture of what is really going on in terms of balance.
raff100
Profile Joined April 2011
498 Posts
June 06 2019 14:01 GMT
#354
On June 06 2019 22:28 Moonerz wrote:
One of the weirdest things to me is that Zest and Stats arguably two of the best Toss to ever do it haven't made any results this year (in Korea).

Without a league like Proleague giving us constant games it is so hard to get an accurate picture of what is really going on in terms of balance.

Exactly. As much as I think that Protoss is the leading race in korea by huge margin, there is a little amount of offline matches to take considerations from.I miss the days of SSL,GSL,Proleague and Kespa Cup
Starcraft needs more international tournaments, but there's no way Blizz is gonna pump more money into the scene. I'd rather have smaller Blizzcon prizepool and more events...
NbaLover
Profile Joined May 2019
24 Posts
June 06 2019 14:46 GMT
#355
On June 06 2019 16:37 Tyrhanius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 08:41 Anc13nt wrote:
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.

Zerg didn't do well in GSL, mostly because the area where they were strong were really short, and didn't last enough for a GSL.

For example, Rogue had good results with hydras, but they split them again before he could reach GSL finals.

Same with drop overlord, they nerfed it a few days before the semi-final of the GSL, an both zerg were eliminated. Nyndus nerf happenned really fast, etc...

On the meantime, it took age to have the proxy reaper nerf, and Byun eliminated Dark twice during this area. Could he have done that without reapers ? I doubt it.

After, they reworked tanks, and started the Innovation area. Also TY, and gumiho did great this time, actually the best result of their carrer, as they never won a premier tournament before.

And after, Maru domination started, and Maru could enjoyed the mass raven enough to win a GSL. It got nerfed, but he got buffs to other things. And the strange part is where was Maru when Byun, Innovation, gumiho were winning if he were that good ?

It looks like that some Terran have some prefered playstyle and depending on the meta/balance one different terran performed.
But zerg on the other side have never got a period of time long enough where they can enjoy "to be OP", like T did.

Also there is the Serral effect, where you see balance team nerfing zerg in order to lower the gap between Serral and other players in the foreigner scene.

So sure, when the best T Serral usually fight is uthermal or special, or the best P protoss Neeb or showtime, nerfing zerg doesn't seem to affect much Serral results.

But when Dark/soo fight Innovation/Maru, or Classic/Stats, it's way different, and it makes kor Zerg impossible to compete vs P/T in korea because they're no such a skill gap like between Serral and the foreigners players.


You deserve praise for this post.

This is one of those rare High IQ post

Couldn't have said it better myself
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 06 2019 16:15 GMT
#356
On June 06 2019 22:28 Moonerz wrote:
One of the weirdest things to me is that Zest and Stats arguably two of the best Toss to ever do it haven't made any results this year (in Korea).

Without a league like Proleague giving us constant games it is so hard to get an accurate picture of what is really going on in terms of balance.

Stats got 2nd place at IEM? And this season the group of death. Also it seems the cheesy toss is on a rise more than standard toss.

Not sure what happened to Zest, maybe he stopped taking SC2 seriously? But his fall from the top is a long term thing now.

On June 06 2019 21:22 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 16:21 deacon.frost wrote:
On June 06 2019 14:42 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 06 2019 13:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On June 06 2019 08:41 Anc13nt wrote:
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.


Why do you think Zerg is strong? If you look solely at this GSL and other recent results PvZ seems harder for zerg than PvT is for terran.


honestly, I'm mainly basing it off of Aligulac stats. Korean zerg have been historically at GSL so I don't think it's the best indication of zerg doing bad. In WESG and IEM they are still doing fine. Also, while WCS is not as competitive, I think foreign zerg like Reynor and Serral are at a comparable skill level with other Korean zerg so if you include the foreigners into the discussion of racial balance, the zerg race gets the biggest boost. Rogue might have fallen off but there's still Dark, soO and Serral (maybe also Reynor) doing very well. Whereas for terran only top 10 player I'd argue is Maru. Gumiho, TY and Inno are still good but i'm reluctant to consider them as top 10 players.

Overall, I admit Zerg is only doing ok whereas Protoss is doing the best so I will walk back on saying both Zerg and Protoss are strong. I still believe the balance isn't much worse than 2017 when terran dominated or in 2018 when zerg seemed to be the best race overall.

Yeah, when the qualifiers have mostly zergs then it looks like zergs are doing fine(WESG). The next time we can use some Zerg weekly - look, Zerg won, everything's fine.

FYI The last international result with Koreans allowed made Reynor place 29-36 at Katowice. He's not exactly the good Zerg you're looking for in the terms of comparison to Koreans considering soO won the whole thing and how far Dark & Solar get. Maybe in the future when he's more stable in the result department.

Zerg is underrepresented in the Korean competition for more than 2 seasons. And the Terrans were underrepresented recently too but since MAru was winning Code S titles nobody cared. The game isn't balanced, if you don't play enough PvT the numbers can pretend they're balanced.

If you go from the premise the game is balanced then there should be equal-ish balance of players. And sorry not sorry, but if you would name to many people some of the RO16 Protosses and over whom they advanced many people would tell you it's impossible.

It's not just maps(previous map pool was very anti-terran), it's the game desibgn and balance. Aligulac isn't allpowerful tool. And you're rather to dismiss good players as being bad and bad players as miraculously getting good than going into - something is wrong? Seriously? Even when you look at the state of the current PvZ? (also WCS doesn't have that good Protosses so it may shift the global numbers)

Edit> Also I don't know what were Zergs historically at GSL, but let me introduce to soO with his multiple final appearances in a row which was just quite recently beaten by Maru. It held for years... He is zerg. So I guess historically they were strong?

In theory yes, if Korea had a more vibrant scene with new blood and new talent coming through. Some people will say that and be wrong and would have you think all these long standing title winning Protoss players with good pro league records all suck and Protoss their opponents.

Distribution isn’t that terrible at the Ro32 anyway, but for it to be good down the line Terrans really need their ‘big 4’ to all be in shape at the same time, which never seems to happen, or have some of the next tier of Terrans have really good runs and a few of the big guys to be in shape.

There’s nothing that really stands out reading over the results and having watched the games as crazy, Patience coming out first and Rogue and Ty losing first on paper yeah but they seemed reasonably watching how everyone played on the day.

Protoss are a daunting gauntlet to run for sure though, it’s also the most varied race in styles by a distance. Cure is kind of like Maru, just a bit worse (who isn’t?), Patience does not play like Stats but worse, it’s like playing two totally different players. So groups with multiple Protoss become really difficult to prep for.

PvZ seems to have the most actual issues, or at least has the most underwhelming matches, but I don’t see how you fix those without making Zerg just straight up too strong. Classic has been winning vZs these last two seasons vs good Zergs with really tight prepped builds to the maps laid out in advance. If Zergs can more reliably play reactively against the tightest prepped builds, or even worse be blindly safe to most, then the less tight versions that don’t cut every corner you see in weekenders they’ll absolutely crush those.

I’d absolutely like things to be more competitive and have Zergs break their GSL duck for sure, I’m just wary of making them too outright strong.

The fact that ZErgs in Korea are punished because of WCS split - that's accepted.

The issue is when good players are defeated by players who are worse and it's not just one loss. It was seen at IEM. It was seen at ST. It was seen at Code S. Yes, it doesn't seem as Protoss being OP but at the same time it appears as it's mostly Protoss who gets the benefit. So there is an issue, the question is how to fix and where it is.

And Terran numbers are not good at any competition. Sure, Maru may have fallen asleep on his money, but TY? Gumi? Inno? Every Terran gone bad at the same time? What a coincidence (I don't believe in coincidence that much)
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States445 Posts
June 06 2019 16:51 GMT
#357
@deacon I specifically said results in Korea. Stats lost in the ro32 season 1 and ro16 in season 2.


WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25342 Posts
June 06 2019 17:49 GMT
#358
On June 07 2019 01:15 deacon.frost wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 22:28 Moonerz wrote:
One of the weirdest things to me is that Zest and Stats arguably two of the best Toss to ever do it haven't made any results this year (in Korea).

Without a league like Proleague giving us constant games it is so hard to get an accurate picture of what is really going on in terms of balance.

Stats got 2nd place at IEM? And this season the group of death. Also it seems the cheesy toss is on a rise more than standard toss.

Not sure what happened to Zest, maybe he stopped taking SC2 seriously? But his fall from the top is a long term thing now.

Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 21:22 Wombat_NI wrote:
On June 06 2019 16:21 deacon.frost wrote:
On June 06 2019 14:42 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 06 2019 13:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On June 06 2019 08:41 Anc13nt wrote:
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.


Why do you think Zerg is strong? If you look solely at this GSL and other recent results PvZ seems harder for zerg than PvT is for terran.


honestly, I'm mainly basing it off of Aligulac stats. Korean zerg have been historically at GSL so I don't think it's the best indication of zerg doing bad. In WESG and IEM they are still doing fine. Also, while WCS is not as competitive, I think foreign zerg like Reynor and Serral are at a comparable skill level with other Korean zerg so if you include the foreigners into the discussion of racial balance, the zerg race gets the biggest boost. Rogue might have fallen off but there's still Dark, soO and Serral (maybe also Reynor) doing very well. Whereas for terran only top 10 player I'd argue is Maru. Gumiho, TY and Inno are still good but i'm reluctant to consider them as top 10 players.

Overall, I admit Zerg is only doing ok whereas Protoss is doing the best so I will walk back on saying both Zerg and Protoss are strong. I still believe the balance isn't much worse than 2017 when terran dominated or in 2018 when zerg seemed to be the best race overall.

Yeah, when the qualifiers have mostly zergs then it looks like zergs are doing fine(WESG). The next time we can use some Zerg weekly - look, Zerg won, everything's fine.

FYI The last international result with Koreans allowed made Reynor place 29-36 at Katowice. He's not exactly the good Zerg you're looking for in the terms of comparison to Koreans considering soO won the whole thing and how far Dark & Solar get. Maybe in the future when he's more stable in the result department.

Zerg is underrepresented in the Korean competition for more than 2 seasons. And the Terrans were underrepresented recently too but since MAru was winning Code S titles nobody cared. The game isn't balanced, if you don't play enough PvT the numbers can pretend they're balanced.

If you go from the premise the game is balanced then there should be equal-ish balance of players. And sorry not sorry, but if you would name to many people some of the RO16 Protosses and over whom they advanced many people would tell you it's impossible.

It's not just maps(previous map pool was very anti-terran), it's the game desibgn and balance. Aligulac isn't allpowerful tool. And you're rather to dismiss good players as being bad and bad players as miraculously getting good than going into - something is wrong? Seriously? Even when you look at the state of the current PvZ? (also WCS doesn't have that good Protosses so it may shift the global numbers)

Edit> Also I don't know what were Zergs historically at GSL, but let me introduce to soO with his multiple final appearances in a row which was just quite recently beaten by Maru. It held for years... He is zerg. So I guess historically they were strong?

In theory yes, if Korea had a more vibrant scene with new blood and new talent coming through. Some people will say that and be wrong and would have you think all these long standing title winning Protoss players with good pro league records all suck and Protoss their opponents.

Distribution isn’t that terrible at the Ro32 anyway, but for it to be good down the line Terrans really need their ‘big 4’ to all be in shape at the same time, which never seems to happen, or have some of the next tier of Terrans have really good runs and a few of the big guys to be in shape.

There’s nothing that really stands out reading over the results and having watched the games as crazy, Patience coming out first and Rogue and Ty losing first on paper yeah but they seemed reasonably watching how everyone played on the day.

Protoss are a daunting gauntlet to run for sure though, it’s also the most varied race in styles by a distance. Cure is kind of like Maru, just a bit worse (who isn’t?), Patience does not play like Stats but worse, it’s like playing two totally different players. So groups with multiple Protoss become really difficult to prep for.

PvZ seems to have the most actual issues, or at least has the most underwhelming matches, but I don’t see how you fix those without making Zerg just straight up too strong. Classic has been winning vZs these last two seasons vs good Zergs with really tight prepped builds to the maps laid out in advance. If Zergs can more reliably play reactively against the tightest prepped builds, or even worse be blindly safe to most, then the less tight versions that don’t cut every corner you see in weekenders they’ll absolutely crush those.

I’d absolutely like things to be more competitive and have Zergs break their GSL duck for sure, I’m just wary of making them too outright strong.

The fact that ZErgs in Korea are punished because of WCS split - that's accepted.

The issue is when good players are defeated by players who are worse and it's not just one loss. It was seen at IEM. It was seen at ST. It was seen at Code S. Yes, it doesn't seem as Protoss being OP but at the same time it appears as it's mostly Protoss who gets the benefit. So there is an issue, the question is how to fix and where it is.

And Terran numbers are not good at any competition. Sure, Maru may have fallen asleep on his money, but TY? Gumi? Inno? Every Terran gone bad at the same time? What a coincidence (I don't believe in coincidence that much)

2/2 from Korea at WESG were Terran, WCS distribution isn’t that bad. Terran winning GSL isn’t that bad either.

Protoss can lose Zest, sOs, Dear and Stats before the playoff bracket and still be doing pretty well for themselves, Terran does not have a similar luxury

Without most of their current big 4 firing on all cylinders in the same season, or players below that stepping up, or a mix of the two I don’t see Terrans having much luck on the distribution side of things.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
Need
Profile Joined March 2019
566 Posts
June 06 2019 22:33 GMT
#359
Jesus Christ that soO vs Classic series... Protoss is just bullying Zerg at this point. Did Classic even take a third in the entire series?
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25342 Posts
June 06 2019 22:51 GMT
#360
On June 07 2019 07:33 Need wrote:
Jesus Christ that soO vs Classic series... Protoss is just bullying Zerg at this point. Did Classic even take a third in the entire series?

He probably doesn’t want to be bullied himself

I don’t really know, my instincts are that playing for a third base and into a straight macro game is really not that good for them now, but we haven’t seen much of that I suppose.

We’re not even seeing people faking these timings while secretly going for a 3 base more conventional reactive macro style
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
kmh
Profile Joined November 2010
Finland351 Posts
June 07 2019 08:14 GMT
#361
Well whether or not late game favours protoss or zerg is kinda irrelevant if robo first immortal attacks have a 65%-70% win rate.Even if the late game was favoured by 55% for protoss, it's just +EV to go for the build with the higher win percentage.

Play to win.
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-06-07 09:26:50
June 07 2019 09:25 GMT
#362
On June 07 2019 02:49 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 07 2019 01:15 deacon.frost wrote:
On June 06 2019 22:28 Moonerz wrote:
One of the weirdest things to me is that Zest and Stats arguably two of the best Toss to ever do it haven't made any results this year (in Korea).

Without a league like Proleague giving us constant games it is so hard to get an accurate picture of what is really going on in terms of balance.

Stats got 2nd place at IEM? And this season the group of death. Also it seems the cheesy toss is on a rise more than standard toss.

Not sure what happened to Zest, maybe he stopped taking SC2 seriously? But his fall from the top is a long term thing now.

On June 06 2019 21:22 Wombat_NI wrote:
On June 06 2019 16:21 deacon.frost wrote:
On June 06 2019 14:42 Anc13nt wrote:
On June 06 2019 13:50 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
On June 06 2019 08:41 Anc13nt wrote:
Honestly, I don't think Protoss is that op. It's more like Zerg and Protoss are strong while Terran is bad. Terran was great in 2017 but PvT has been bad for Terran since 2018. Zerg never did well in GSL so I wouldn't blame poor Zerg performance purely on balance. If Maru didn't exist, Terran would be so bad it's hilarious whereas Protoss without Stats and Zerg without Dark would suffer badly but would still have a few top players.


Why do you think Zerg is strong? If you look solely at this GSL and other recent results PvZ seems harder for zerg than PvT is for terran.


honestly, I'm mainly basing it off of Aligulac stats. Korean zerg have been historically at GSL so I don't think it's the best indication of zerg doing bad. In WESG and IEM they are still doing fine. Also, while WCS is not as competitive, I think foreign zerg like Reynor and Serral are at a comparable skill level with other Korean zerg so if you include the foreigners into the discussion of racial balance, the zerg race gets the biggest boost. Rogue might have fallen off but there's still Dark, soO and Serral (maybe also Reynor) doing very well. Whereas for terran only top 10 player I'd argue is Maru. Gumiho, TY and Inno are still good but i'm reluctant to consider them as top 10 players.

Overall, I admit Zerg is only doing ok whereas Protoss is doing the best so I will walk back on saying both Zerg and Protoss are strong. I still believe the balance isn't much worse than 2017 when terran dominated or in 2018 when zerg seemed to be the best race overall.

Yeah, when the qualifiers have mostly zergs then it looks like zergs are doing fine(WESG). The next time we can use some Zerg weekly - look, Zerg won, everything's fine.

FYI The last international result with Koreans allowed made Reynor place 29-36 at Katowice. He's not exactly the good Zerg you're looking for in the terms of comparison to Koreans considering soO won the whole thing and how far Dark & Solar get. Maybe in the future when he's more stable in the result department.

Zerg is underrepresented in the Korean competition for more than 2 seasons. And the Terrans were underrepresented recently too but since MAru was winning Code S titles nobody cared. The game isn't balanced, if you don't play enough PvT the numbers can pretend they're balanced.

If you go from the premise the game is balanced then there should be equal-ish balance of players. And sorry not sorry, but if you would name to many people some of the RO16 Protosses and over whom they advanced many people would tell you it's impossible.

It's not just maps(previous map pool was very anti-terran), it's the game desibgn and balance. Aligulac isn't allpowerful tool. And you're rather to dismiss good players as being bad and bad players as miraculously getting good than going into - something is wrong? Seriously? Even when you look at the state of the current PvZ? (also WCS doesn't have that good Protosses so it may shift the global numbers)

Edit> Also I don't know what were Zergs historically at GSL, but let me introduce to soO with his multiple final appearances in a row which was just quite recently beaten by Maru. It held for years... He is zerg. So I guess historically they were strong?

In theory yes, if Korea had a more vibrant scene with new blood and new talent coming through. Some people will say that and be wrong and would have you think all these long standing title winning Protoss players with good pro league records all suck and Protoss their opponents.

Distribution isn’t that terrible at the Ro32 anyway, but for it to be good down the line Terrans really need their ‘big 4’ to all be in shape at the same time, which never seems to happen, or have some of the next tier of Terrans have really good runs and a few of the big guys to be in shape.

There’s nothing that really stands out reading over the results and having watched the games as crazy, Patience coming out first and Rogue and Ty losing first on paper yeah but they seemed reasonably watching how everyone played on the day.

Protoss are a daunting gauntlet to run for sure though, it’s also the most varied race in styles by a distance. Cure is kind of like Maru, just a bit worse (who isn’t?), Patience does not play like Stats but worse, it’s like playing two totally different players. So groups with multiple Protoss become really difficult to prep for.

PvZ seems to have the most actual issues, or at least has the most underwhelming matches, but I don’t see how you fix those without making Zerg just straight up too strong. Classic has been winning vZs these last two seasons vs good Zergs with really tight prepped builds to the maps laid out in advance. If Zergs can more reliably play reactively against the tightest prepped builds, or even worse be blindly safe to most, then the less tight versions that don’t cut every corner you see in weekenders they’ll absolutely crush those.

I’d absolutely like things to be more competitive and have Zergs break their GSL duck for sure, I’m just wary of making them too outright strong.

The fact that ZErgs in Korea are punished because of WCS split - that's accepted.

The issue is when good players are defeated by players who are worse and it's not just one loss. It was seen at IEM. It was seen at ST. It was seen at Code S. Yes, it doesn't seem as Protoss being OP but at the same time it appears as it's mostly Protoss who gets the benefit. So there is an issue, the question is how to fix and where it is.

And Terran numbers are not good at any competition. Sure, Maru may have fallen asleep on his money, but TY? Gumi? Inno? Every Terran gone bad at the same time? What a coincidence (I don't believe in coincidence that much)

2/2 from Korea at WESG were Terran, WCS distribution isn’t that bad. Terran winning GSL isn’t that bad either.

Protoss can lose Zest, sOs, Dear and Stats before the playoff bracket and still be doing pretty well for themselves, Terran does not have a similar luxury

Without most of their current big 4 firing on all cylinders in the same season, or players below that stepping up, or a mix of the two I don’t see Terrans having much luck on the distribution side of things.

You do realize the Korean qualifier for WESG was November 2018, do you? And we're back to "Mvp was winning during BL/infestor, everything is fine" counter argument? AGAIN?

Edit> and yes, Korean qualifier Nov2018, Tournament March2019. Think about it.
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
Snakestyle11
Profile Joined December 2018
191 Posts
June 07 2019 11:58 GMT
#363
To me, the most frustrating game in the Classic vs soO series was the game Classic went warp prism harass opening on a build that looks to be a fast Immortal push, into two stargates mass phenixes ( At this point soO expects immortal rush, so he spread ovies for vision, cuts drone count low to make some roaches and ravagers to defend all-in, slows down queen production, delays lair..)

Then the 2 stargate pheonix does insane damage obviously, renders ravagers useless and can kill them for free, so soO cant really invest in more ravagers, making more spores destroys his already low drone count, he loses ovies and more drones to pheonixes, hes forced to remake drones and tech to something that will allow him to breathe against phoenixes.

At this point, he has almost no vision on the map, 2 stargate pheonixes make the zerg completely blind.
soO then assumes classic will probably take a third base and tech to colossus to counter the hydras mass pheonixes force, but you cant really scout to be sure as the zerg at that point with all those pheonixes, he takes a gamble and goes corruptors to counter pheonixes/colossus; he needs something to come back any ways, hes behind from all these misreads.

Nah, protoss goes sentry immortal all-in anyways, with tons of built up sentry energy, tons of pheonixes to completely negate ravagers and i mean.. what are corruptors gonna do against sentry/immortal?

I truly believe after the 2 stargate pheonixes, Classic couldve done any sort of 2 base push and won, or went into a third base and won any ways, he was too far ahead.

All of this is because how powerful warp-prism/immortal centric 2 base all-ins are against zerg. You HAVE to cut drones early and mass ravagers ( or ling bane, depending on version, or rush hydras to defend another version..). If you just take a small risk and drone a bit too hard in the chance that they just take a late third and macro, you lose to an all-in.

Every Zerg in Korea is playing from behind in ZvP because they have to blind counter well executed immortal/warp prism all-ins.

I really dont know how soO was supposed to play that game. How could he know it would go this way? Protoss can do way too many things and transition on 2 base. Should he have called the bluff and kept massing drones and rushed to hydras after the first warp prism? Should he just not fear the 2 base immortal sentry all-in and just make more drones every game?

Its very hard right now in ZvP to make a good decision, it usually feels like a gamble no matter what. It feels like queens need hallucination phoenix type of thing to make the match-up easier to read right now.. Ovie speed can help, until you scout the chargelots/immortal all-in that is hitting you in 10 seconds. Grats, you invested 100/100 early, delayed lair and get a 10seconds heads-up against one of the strongest all-in in the game.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25342 Posts
June 07 2019 14:24 GMT
#364
On June 07 2019 20:58 Snakestyle11 wrote:
To me, the most frustrating game in the Classic vs soO series was the game Classic went warp prism harass opening on a build that looks to be a fast Immortal push, into two stargates mass phenixes ( At this point soO expects immortal rush, so he spread ovies for vision, cuts drone count low to make some roaches and ravagers to defend all-in, slows down queen production, delays lair..)

Then the 2 stargate pheonix does insane damage obviously, renders ravagers useless and can kill them for free, so soO cant really invest in more ravagers, making more spores destroys his already low drone count, he loses ovies and more drones to pheonixes, hes forced to remake drones and tech to something that will allow him to breathe against phoenixes.

At this point, he has almost no vision on the map, 2 stargate pheonixes make the zerg completely blind.
soO then assumes classic will probably take a third base and tech to colossus to counter the hydras mass pheonixes force, but you cant really scout to be sure as the zerg at that point with all those pheonixes, he takes a gamble and goes corruptors to counter pheonixes/colossus; he needs something to come back any ways, hes behind from all these misreads.

Nah, protoss goes sentry immortal all-in anyways, with tons of built up sentry energy, tons of pheonixes to completely negate ravagers and i mean.. what are corruptors gonna do against sentry/immortal?

I truly believe after the 2 stargate pheonixes, Classic couldve done any sort of 2 base push and won, or went into a third base and won any ways, he was too far ahead.

All of this is because how powerful warp-prism/immortal centric 2 base all-ins are against zerg. You HAVE to cut drones early and mass ravagers ( or ling bane, depending on version, or rush hydras to defend another version..). If you just take a small risk and drone a bit too hard in the chance that they just take a late third and macro, you lose to an all-in.

Every Zerg in Korea is playing from behind in ZvP because they have to blind counter well executed immortal/warp prism all-ins.

I really dont know how soO was supposed to play that game. How could he know it would go this way? Protoss can do way too many things and transition on 2 base. Should he have called the bluff and kept massing drones and rushed to hydras after the first warp prism? Should he just not fear the 2 base immortal sentry all-in and just make more drones every game?

Its very hard right now in ZvP to make a good decision, it usually feels like a gamble no matter what. It feels like queens need hallucination phoenix type of thing to make the match-up easier to read right now.. Ovie speed can help, until you scout the chargelots/immortal all-in that is hitting you in 10 seconds. Grats, you invested 100/100 early, delayed lair and get a 10seconds heads-up against one of the strongest all-in in the game.

Bingo.

I’d still like to see a prism pickup range nerf just because it’s a bit silly, I don’t actually think Immortal juggling makes a huge difference. Certainly a nerf I don’t think will make PvZ much better, it’s rare that I see a push where I feel juggling makes the difference, usually I feel the Zerg is either dead or going to crush the push before the engage and that instinct is usually on the money.

There is no ‘push’, there’s a giant gameshow wheel of similar looking pushes. Plus the transition to taking a third base and playing into +2 or +3 chargelot/Immortal with storm.

Zerg can’t overdrone if it’s an aggressive push, they have to time their droning/army balance on a knife edge, if it’s a fake or you just misread and they’re going to 3 base early and you underdrone you just die to a later attack.

Then you have to get the composition right too, banes can do work against adepts, really not very good against forcefields. Delay for hydras and be weaker to things that hit earlier, or crank out roaches and get shredded by a later one with more immortals?

It’s a tough one, the higher starting workers in Legacy really don’t seem to help in regards to Zergs scouting these out. Also ifnZerg can scout too well the matchup could flip in the other direction. But yes it is definitely a problem.

Alternatively I’d like a nerf to the prism as it pertains i warp ins. At least experimented with. Perhaps a cost increase for prism warpins, maybe warpgare cooldowns increases when used with a prism, maybe warping in takes longer.

See if hitting slightly less hard with slightly fewer units, or pushes having slightly less staying power through slower second waves makes them more holdable.

The normal prism we have now could be restored with an upgrade as I think we Protoss kind of need it in its current form in the lategame.

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
deacon.frost
Profile Joined February 2013
Czech Republic12129 Posts
June 07 2019 14:42 GMT
#365
Juggling makes a huge difference as you can place the WP in a safe spot and save any immortal in troubles which makes them to live very long. All this while the WP is in its warping mode. If you have to decided whether to warp in units or save units it would be a different story. It's all about the WP micro, if Zerg snipes the WP the push is over, yet even ravagers with their bile attack are not enough.

Also nerfing the cost of wapring makes the game just a mess.

There are multiple nerfs possible
- lower the cost of WP, make warp ins/pick up range an upgrade
- disable the shield regen inside of the WP
- obvious nerf the pick up range
- nerf the warp in area/time(slower warp in would weaken these pushes too, easier to kill the wp)
I imagine France should be able to take this unless Lilbow is busy practicing for Starcraft III. | KadaverBB is my fairy ban mother.
BerserkSword
Profile Joined December 2018
United States2123 Posts
June 07 2019 15:26 GMT
#366
On June 07 2019 23:42 deacon.frost wrote:
Juggling makes a huge difference as you can place the WP in a safe spot and save any immortal in troubles which makes them to live very long. All this while the WP is in its warping mode. If you have to decided whether to warp in units or save units it would be a different story. It's all about the WP micro, if Zerg snipes the WP the push is over, yet even ravagers with their bile attack are not enough.

Also nerfing the cost of wapring makes the game just a mess.

There are multiple nerfs possible
- lower the cost of WP, make warp ins/pick up range an upgrade
- disable the shield regen inside of the WP
- obvious nerf the pick up range
- nerf the warp in area/time(slower warp in would weaken these pushes too, easier to kill the wp)


Juggling doesnt matter if the Zerg player executes the proper response.

For example, see Classic vs Soo game 2, where Classic's massive immortal chargelot army evaporated despite warp prism support. a Warp prism + a few immortals doesnt mean anything if the rest of the army just melts (which Zerg armies are capable of doing to protoss armies if the engagement is good)

This highlights the fact that the problem is not that individual units are too good vs Zerg, but, as Wombat stated, that it is too difficult for zerg to respond properly to the vast variation of builds available to protoss at that point in the game.

Nerfing the warp prism would be a huge mistake. It is trying to fix the mistake of the Queen + creep nerf, which, along with the cheaper robo, is the obvious cause of the state of PvZ, by tinkering with another dynamic which has been perfectly fine all this time.

TL+ Member
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
June 08 2019 23:16 GMT
#367
On June 06 2019 07:38 NbaLover wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 06 2019 06:53 Xain0n wrote:
On June 06 2019 06:09 NbaLover wrote:
On June 06 2019 04:00 youngjiddle wrote:
Honestly, I'm just sad that players like Classic and Trap don't get credit for their wins.

Classic just outplayed and out strategized soO, he mind gamed him so hard. Great starcraft.

Trap easily countered and outmicro'd Inno's stale builds. Both played well and it was a close 2-3.

Put yourself in their shoes and imagine you start winning, then people call your accomplishments moot.


That's the current mindset of the Protoss haters / Terran whiners.

Any non bias fan can see that currently Classic is the best player in Korea, but since he plays Protoss he will never get that respect.

Inno has always been average in TVP, but easier to blame Trap and "PROTOSSED" rather than admitting Inno didn't play well in G5 where he stacked 4 libs into storm



To be honest, I'm not convinced that Classic is the best player in Korea; he is the most consistent and he is having the best results, for sure.


Based on 2019 result and current form, we can only assume he is the "currently" the best at this very moment.

Dark is a close 2nd for me. We all know he is great and consistent but god damn it I just want him to start winning something instead of all these Top 4, Top 2 finishes. Such a fun trash talking personality.


Classic has been clutch but super cheesy in PvZ, I feel this could be exploited in a bo7 finals.
He surely has one of the best PvP in Korea, but he didn't get to play the ones who could stop him, Stats and Zest(actually taken down by sOs who Classic proceeded to slay 3-1).
Classic's PvT didn't seem convincing to me: Maru beat him quite convincingly(ok, it's Maru), Gumiho threw very hard and Inno nomatched him.

Classic is among the best in Korea and had the best results in GSL this year. He is, however, venerated as being evidently better than his peers, which doesn't really seem me to be the case.
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