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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 14 2019 20:13 ilovegroov wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:04 ilovegroov wrote:On April 14 2019 20:02 BerserkSword wrote:On April 14 2019 20:00 ilovegroov wrote:On April 14 2019 19:58 BerserkSword wrote:On April 14 2019 19:57 Charoisaur wrote:
I agree with Xainon, Code S is worth nothing right now because the best player doesn't compete in it and since Maru is too afraid to get a VISA and play in the more prestigious competition he has a hard time to catch up to the real GOATs.
The GOAT is still TaeJa since he has won the most tournaments - Maru has now caught up to Serral in the GOAT ranking with 7 premier victories but according to my criteria he isn't anywhere close to GOAT. yea look at taeja for exmple he did all of that during a time when talent was deep and terran was weak. what a monster fucking saved in that hots era, Terran went almost a year without winning a single premier tournament. the drough wouldve been so much longer if it werent for taeja it's like 2018 protoss. where they won 2/15 premier tournaments (probably fewere this year since Blizzard keeps nerfing them ) Keep digging! On April 14 2019 20:03 Fango wrote:On April 14 2019 19:58 BerserkSword wrote:On April 14 2019 19:57 Charoisaur wrote:
I agree with Xainon, Code S is worth nothing right now because the best player doesn't compete in it and since Maru is too afraid to get a VISA and play in the more prestigious competition he has a hard time to catch up to the real GOATs.
The GOAT is still TaeJa since he has won the most tournaments - Maru has now caught up to Serral in the GOAT ranking with 7 premier victories but according to my criteria he isn't anywhere close to GOAT. yea look at taeja for exmple he did all of that during a time when talent was deep and terran was weak. what a monster The shocking thing is that people actually genuinely this. Taeja is a GOAT contender despite his zero korean wins. yo man he almost hit diamonds hes digging straight down tho Can someone appreciate my minecraft jokes pls? 
Nobody here plays other games than Starcraft.
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mediocre series, could have been better, could have been worse
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Maru was one of the top proleague players, but still wasn’t winning any individual tournaments , apart from a SSL, and was outshined by people like Innovation , Zest or Life.
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On April 14 2019 20:12 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:11 Fango wrote:On April 14 2019 20:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:On April 14 2019 19:51 raff100 wrote:
Maru is probably the best player of LotV, but imo we can’t compare post kespa era to pre kespa era. The competition these days is so bland that code S qualifiers are nearly a joke. There’s no proleague, no starleague and GSL is way too predictable until ro8.
And furthermore , Flash dominance of 2009-2010 is way above any Starcraft 2 player ever had. GOD literally showed to be a top1/top2 in every occasion he had, in a period where Starcraft was The Game in KR.
Maru is still impressive , but a win in 2019 is nowhere as hard as a win in 2014, not to talk about a win in BroodWar. Despite what casters may say to hype the crowd , competition is not remotely close.
Maru was still dominating Pro League though during the KESPA era in SC2. He just struggled to win the individual tournaments. But he was a monster in Pro League, year after year. To be fair, so was Innovation during Pro League. He won two starleagues and made ro4 in another three, and had decent showings (ro4+) at weekenders including blizzcon. And he was probably the best proleague player ever. The idea that Maru struggled during kespa is just wrong. He was the best terran in korea overall in terms of consistency. With Innovation. BAck at the time he was a force to be reckon with 
and in his peak year he was swept in under 30 minutes like a scrub at blizzcon
maru is definitely one of the greatest playrs of all time. to say he is THE greatest player of all time is a major stretch though
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On April 14 2019 19:57 Charoisaur wrote:
I agree with Xainon, Code S is worth nothing right now because the best player doesn't compete in it and since Maru is too afraid to get a VISA and play in the more prestigious competition he has a hard time to catch up to the real GOATs.
The GOAT is still TaeJa since he has won the most tournaments - Maru has now caught up to Serral in the GOAT ranking with 7 premier victories but according to my criteria he isn't anywhere close to GOAT.
That's a very high level meme(look who am I supporting against Maru as GOAT and laugh because you might even agree, this time).
The number of premier victories does matter, you guys forget too often winning is never easy; of course, quality of victories has to be valued too.
You perfectly know I think myself that Serral is not in contention for being GOAT; as for TaeJa, his impressive achievements are just almost the perfect mirror of Maru's(more victories, less prestigious. Never winning a Code S, not to mention a korean tournament, is indeed a significant flaw, I don't see TaeJa as GOAT despite holding him in high esteem).
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On April 14 2019 20:14 ValM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:05 deacon.frost wrote:On April 14 2019 19:55 BerserkSword wrote:On April 14 2019 19:51 raff100 wrote:
Maru is probably the best player of LotV, but imo we can’t compare post kespa era to pre kespa era. The competition these days is so bland that code S qualifiers are nearly a joke. There’s no proleague, no starleague and GSL is way too predictable until ro8.
And furthermore , Flash dominance of 2009-2010 is way above any Starcraft 2 player ever had. GOD literally showed to be a top1/top2 in every occasion he had, in a period where Starcraft was The Game in KR.
Maru is still impressive , but a win in 2019 is nowhere as hard as a win in 2014, not to talk about a win in BroodWar. Despite what casters may say to hype the crowd , competition is not remotely close.
yup i mean the maru fan squad hypes code S so much, but the other SC2 titan in serral doesnt even participate in it. u cant call someone the GOAT when the tournaments he wins doesnt even have the best/second best player in the world (and when he does participate in the same tournaments as serral he underperforms) neither serral nor maru are the GOATs or even bonjwas Code S still has top players of the world. If we give Neeb, Scarlett, Reynor, Serral and mjr Special a rank of RO16 Code S player(which all of them are not at the same time usually), we still have 11 Koreans to complete the RO16 who are good. So Maru is competing in the most difficult tournament we have and won it 4 times in a row across different patches and what's more importnat, he was the dominating Terran. While we can talk about Serral, we can talk about Reynor, Rogue, Dark, soO. Who else had any major success as a Terran except Innovation in WESG this year? TY's 2nd place in Code S? We can talk about Neeb, Stats, Classic, Zest... AND? It doesn't look like there's that many good Terran or that the game favors the race yet Maru keeps winning GSL titles. ANd it's not MAru's fault Serral is avoiding Korea. Thank you sir. Almost everything I wanted to say. The player I was rooting against won so? the scene is dead...matchup is a joke....this wouldnt be possible X years ago. I dont understand why do the people saying all of the above even watch? Because it certainly does not look like you appreciate decent starcraft irrespective of whoever won or lost. Specially since GSL is not "international" enough for some of you..
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On April 14 2019 20:14 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:13 ilovegroov wrote:On April 14 2019 20:04 ilovegroov wrote:On April 14 2019 20:02 BerserkSword wrote:On April 14 2019 20:00 ilovegroov wrote:On April 14 2019 19:58 BerserkSword wrote:On April 14 2019 19:57 Charoisaur wrote:
I agree with Xainon, Code S is worth nothing right now because the best player doesn't compete in it and since Maru is too afraid to get a VISA and play in the more prestigious competition he has a hard time to catch up to the real GOATs.
The GOAT is still TaeJa since he has won the most tournaments - Maru has now caught up to Serral in the GOAT ranking with 7 premier victories but according to my criteria he isn't anywhere close to GOAT. yea look at taeja for exmple he did all of that during a time when talent was deep and terran was weak. what a monster fucking saved in that hots era, Terran went almost a year without winning a single premier tournament. the drough wouldve been so much longer if it werent for taeja it's like 2018 protoss. where they won 2/15 premier tournaments (probably fewere this year since Blizzard keeps nerfing them ) Keep digging! On April 14 2019 20:03 Fango wrote:On April 14 2019 19:58 BerserkSword wrote:On April 14 2019 19:57 Charoisaur wrote:
I agree with Xainon, Code S is worth nothing right now because the best player doesn't compete in it and since Maru is too afraid to get a VISA and play in the more prestigious competition he has a hard time to catch up to the real GOATs.
The GOAT is still TaeJa since he has won the most tournaments - Maru has now caught up to Serral in the GOAT ranking with 7 premier victories but according to my criteria he isn't anywhere close to GOAT. yea look at taeja for exmple he did all of that during a time when talent was deep and terran was weak. what a monster The shocking thing is that people actually genuinely this. Taeja is a GOAT contender despite his zero korean wins. yo man he almost hit diamonds hes digging straight down tho Can someone appreciate my minecraft jokes pls? Nobody here plays other games than Starcraft.
here come iloveagroov with a sudoku patern on his chest
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On April 14 2019 20:16 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:12 deacon.frost wrote:On April 14 2019 20:11 Fango wrote:On April 14 2019 20:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:On April 14 2019 19:51 raff100 wrote:
Maru is probably the best player of LotV, but imo we can’t compare post kespa era to pre kespa era. The competition these days is so bland that code S qualifiers are nearly a joke. There’s no proleague, no starleague and GSL is way too predictable until ro8.
And furthermore , Flash dominance of 2009-2010 is way above any Starcraft 2 player ever had. GOD literally showed to be a top1/top2 in every occasion he had, in a period where Starcraft was The Game in KR.
Maru is still impressive , but a win in 2019 is nowhere as hard as a win in 2014, not to talk about a win in BroodWar. Despite what casters may say to hype the crowd , competition is not remotely close.
Maru was still dominating Pro League though during the KESPA era in SC2. He just struggled to win the individual tournaments. But he was a monster in Pro League, year after year. To be fair, so was Innovation during Pro League. He won two starleagues and made ro4 in another three, and had decent showings (ro4+) at weekenders including blizzcon. And he was probably the best proleague player ever. The idea that Maru struggled during kespa is just wrong. He was the best terran in korea overall in terms of consistency. With Innovation. BAck at the time he was a force to be reckon with and in his peak year he was swept in under 30 minutes like a scrub at blizzcon maru is definitely one of the greatest playrs of all time. to say he is THE greatest player of all time is a major stretch though
You know INno is his peak year lost to DuckDeock at blizzcon right? You can find bad runs from literally any of the GOAT contenders.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 14 2019 20:16 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:12 deacon.frost wrote:On April 14 2019 20:11 Fango wrote:On April 14 2019 20:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:On April 14 2019 19:51 raff100 wrote:
Maru is probably the best player of LotV, but imo we can’t compare post kespa era to pre kespa era. The competition these days is so bland that code S qualifiers are nearly a joke. There’s no proleague, no starleague and GSL is way too predictable until ro8.
And furthermore , Flash dominance of 2009-2010 is way above any Starcraft 2 player ever had. GOD literally showed to be a top1/top2 in every occasion he had, in a period where Starcraft was The Game in KR.
Maru is still impressive , but a win in 2019 is nowhere as hard as a win in 2014, not to talk about a win in BroodWar. Despite what casters may say to hype the crowd , competition is not remotely close.
Maru was still dominating Pro League though during the KESPA era in SC2. He just struggled to win the individual tournaments. But he was a monster in Pro League, year after year. To be fair, so was Innovation during Pro League. He won two starleagues and made ro4 in another three, and had decent showings (ro4+) at weekenders including blizzcon. And he was probably the best proleague player ever. The idea that Maru struggled during kespa is just wrong. He was the best terran in korea overall in terms of consistency. With Innovation. BAck at the time he was a force to be reckon with and in his peak year he was swept in under 30 minutes like a scrub at blizzcon maru is definitely one of the greatest playrs of all time. to say he is THE greatest player of all time is a major stretch though
As different people already said - some people won't be happy and find excuses even if Maru gets 6 Code S titles in a row, this is just pointless. So, see ya! No need to be here anymore, Maru won, created new record and equalized soO's old one. i'm happy and I don't need to argue over internets. We will never agree.
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On April 14 2019 20:15 raff100 wrote:
Maru was one of the top proleague players, but still wasn’t winning any individual tournaments , apart from a SSL, and was outshined by people like Innovation , Zest or Life.
Why do people keep saying this? During kespa Maru won as many starleagues as Zest and INno, and had more deep runs (ro4+) in them than both. Life wasn't close to Maru terms of korean events.
And he had a better SPL record than any of them.
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On April 14 2019 20:12 M2 wrote:
I really cannot comprehend how its even possible people to argue about bonjwa and goat when there are no clear/strict criteria what these titles actually mean. Everybody is putting their own criteria and claiming shit based on them and others are actually trying to dispute. Consider seeing a doctor guys or a shrink I dont know xDD
agree, but is fun to argue.
MARU BONJGOAT!
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On April 14 2019 20:20 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:15 raff100 wrote:
Maru was one of the top proleague players, but still wasn’t winning any individual tournaments , apart from a SSL, and was outshined by people like Innovation , Zest or Life. Why do people keep saying this? During kespa Maru won as many starleagues as Zest and INno, and had more deep runs (ro4+) in them than both. Life wasn't close to Maru terms of korean events. And he had a better SPL record than any of them.
Just give up, they won't check the history records  Go and enjoy this wonderful day which Maru prepared with his victory.
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Even though that finals score was 4-2, that series was REALLY one-sided. It seems like it truly takes a TvT to stop this man. Congrats Maru
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On April 14 2019 20:19 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:16 BerserkSword wrote:On April 14 2019 20:12 deacon.frost wrote:On April 14 2019 20:11 Fango wrote:On April 14 2019 20:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:On April 14 2019 19:51 raff100 wrote:
Maru is probably the best player of LotV, but imo we can’t compare post kespa era to pre kespa era. The competition these days is so bland that code S qualifiers are nearly a joke. There’s no proleague, no starleague and GSL is way too predictable until ro8.
And furthermore , Flash dominance of 2009-2010 is way above any Starcraft 2 player ever had. GOD literally showed to be a top1/top2 in every occasion he had, in a period where Starcraft was The Game in KR.
Maru is still impressive , but a win in 2019 is nowhere as hard as a win in 2014, not to talk about a win in BroodWar. Despite what casters may say to hype the crowd , competition is not remotely close.
Maru was still dominating Pro League though during the KESPA era in SC2. He just struggled to win the individual tournaments. But he was a monster in Pro League, year after year. To be fair, so was Innovation during Pro League. He won two starleagues and made ro4 in another three, and had decent showings (ro4+) at weekenders including blizzcon. And he was probably the best proleague player ever. The idea that Maru struggled during kespa is just wrong. He was the best terran in korea overall in terms of consistency. With Innovation. BAck at the time he was a force to be reckon with and in his peak year he was swept in under 30 minutes like a scrub at blizzcon maru is definitely one of the greatest playrs of all time. to say he is THE greatest player of all time is a major stretch though As different people already said - some people won't be happy and find excuses even if Maru gets 6 Code S titles in a row, this is just pointless. So, see ya!
Is like saying that Juventus is the strongest serie A team ever because they are close to win the 8 championship in a row. Yeah, the award is impressive, but still serie A is nowhere close to what was in 90s and early 2000.
Winning trophies alone doesn’t matter for the GOAT title ,in my opinion.
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On April 14 2019 20:19 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:16 BerserkSword wrote:On April 14 2019 20:12 deacon.frost wrote:On April 14 2019 20:11 Fango wrote:On April 14 2019 20:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:On April 14 2019 19:51 raff100 wrote:
Maru is probably the best player of LotV, but imo we can’t compare post kespa era to pre kespa era. The competition these days is so bland that code S qualifiers are nearly a joke. There’s no proleague, no starleague and GSL is way too predictable until ro8.
And furthermore , Flash dominance of 2009-2010 is way above any Starcraft 2 player ever had. GOD literally showed to be a top1/top2 in every occasion he had, in a period where Starcraft was The Game in KR.
Maru is still impressive , but a win in 2019 is nowhere as hard as a win in 2014, not to talk about a win in BroodWar. Despite what casters may say to hype the crowd , competition is not remotely close.
Maru was still dominating Pro League though during the KESPA era in SC2. He just struggled to win the individual tournaments. But he was a monster in Pro League, year after year. To be fair, so was Innovation during Pro League. He won two starleagues and made ro4 in another three, and had decent showings (ro4+) at weekenders including blizzcon. And he was probably the best proleague player ever. The idea that Maru struggled during kespa is just wrong. He was the best terran in korea overall in terms of consistency. With Innovation. BAck at the time he was a force to be reckon with and in his peak year he was swept in under 30 minutes like a scrub at blizzcon maru is definitely one of the greatest playrs of all time. to say he is THE greatest player of all time is a major stretch though You know INno is his peak year lost to DuckDeock at blizzcon right? You can find bad runs from literally any of the GOAT contenders.
first of all innovation wasnt swept by duckdeock
second of all, that wasnt innovation's peak year
third of all, i dont think innovation is the GOAT
the point is that maru's argument for GOAT comes from his 2018 form. when that form is swept at blizzcon, i dont see how it's GOAT
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On April 14 2019 20:20 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:15 raff100 wrote:
Maru was one of the top proleague players, but still wasn’t winning any individual tournaments , apart from a SSL, and was outshined by people like Innovation , Zest or Life. Why do people keep saying this? During kespa Maru won as many starleagues as Zest and INno, and had more deep runs (ro4+) in them than both. Life wasn't close to Maru terms of korean events. And he had a better SPL record than any of them.
Because these people think Maru started playing in 2018 for some reason.
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On April 14 2019 19:30 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 19:27 Poopi wrote:On April 14 2019 19:15 Xain0n wrote:On April 14 2019 19:05 Morbidius wrote:
Serral fans, this is what a Bonjwa looks like. As I said yesterday, it's not even close to how a bonjwa should be; two tournaments in seven months? Must be bonjwa.. Maru is evidently the best Code S player in history; surely not bonjwa, most likely not GOAT. Don’t be salty lol, no other player ever came close to this in the history of StarCraft 2. And he did it across patches nonetheless, while all others terrans struggled to even qualify for events. It’s not even about is he GOAT at this point, it’s obvious he is, it’s about will we see another contender for GOAT before sc2 dies as an esport? GOATs dont get swept at blizzcon lol
You know alot of favorites each year in other esports scene don't tend to win the most important event of the year(aka the world championships).One tournament doesn't make a player shit when he can compete and win others. In the end that is just one tournament.
I mean in the dota2 scene alone it happens almost every year (TI4 DK/IG/EG was the expected champion none of them won, Secret TI5 did not win,TI6 had OG as the strongest whole year and didn't even make it to top 6, TI8 world champion was not the strongest team of that time but a random team that suddenly gained momentum by the time of the event )
That's just dota 2 scene alone.
Hell flash and effort doesn't even win everything in Broodwar when they're basically the best at the recent times.
Upsets happen yo.
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On April 14 2019 20:23 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2019 20:19 Fango wrote:On April 14 2019 20:16 BerserkSword wrote:On April 14 2019 20:12 deacon.frost wrote:On April 14 2019 20:11 Fango wrote:On April 14 2019 20:06 xelnaga_empire wrote:On April 14 2019 19:51 raff100 wrote:
Maru is probably the best player of LotV, but imo we can’t compare post kespa era to pre kespa era. The competition these days is so bland that code S qualifiers are nearly a joke. There’s no proleague, no starleague and GSL is way too predictable until ro8.
And furthermore , Flash dominance of 2009-2010 is way above any Starcraft 2 player ever had. GOD literally showed to be a top1/top2 in every occasion he had, in a period where Starcraft was The Game in KR.
Maru is still impressive , but a win in 2019 is nowhere as hard as a win in 2014, not to talk about a win in BroodWar. Despite what casters may say to hype the crowd , competition is not remotely close.
Maru was still dominating Pro League though during the KESPA era in SC2. He just struggled to win the individual tournaments. But he was a monster in Pro League, year after year. To be fair, so was Innovation during Pro League. He won two starleagues and made ro4 in another three, and had decent showings (ro4+) at weekenders including blizzcon. And he was probably the best proleague player ever. The idea that Maru struggled during kespa is just wrong. He was the best terran in korea overall in terms of consistency. With Innovation. BAck at the time he was a force to be reckon with and in his peak year he was swept in under 30 minutes like a scrub at blizzcon maru is definitely one of the greatest playrs of all time. to say he is THE greatest player of all time is a major stretch though You know INno is his peak year lost to DuckDeock at blizzcon right? You can find bad runs from literally any of the GOAT contenders. first of all innovation wasnt swept by duckdeock second of all, that wasnt innovation's peak year third of all, i dont think innovation is the GOAT the point is that maru's argument for GOAT comes from his 2018 form. when that form is swept at blizzcon, i dont see how it's GOAT
Fine, in his peak year INno was swept 0-4 in OSL, the tournament where he was the #1 player in the world and supposed to win. He also got REVERSE SWEPT in GSL, another tournament he was supposed to win. It doesn't matter if he didn't get swept by DuckDeock, he still lost to him at blizzcon which is an embarrassment.
2013 was his peak year in terms of form btw.
And I wasn't referring to you saying INno was GOAT. The point was you can find bad performances from any GOAT contender.
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Absolutely incredible. I think Maru is the GOAT but I could understand Innovation still being #1.
Honestly MVP is probably not even top 3 GOAT, it's just hard to make the argument when he played during a time there were like 8 GSLs and 20 other tournaments during each year. His story is incredibly (best ever?) and he is definitely one of the greatest ever, but I think if other players had reached their peak during similar tournaments ecosystem environments his records would have got broken a long time ago.
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Maru might be the GOAT in SC 2, but the decline in Korean SC is undeniable. Maru is going to win 6, 7, 8 or more GSLs. Don't worry guys, the decline is going to be obvious with every victory and with every post about the closing gap between the Korean and the foreign scene. As the top Korean declines and the foreign scene grows, the gap will eventually disappear.
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EPT
