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[GSL 2019] Season 1 - Grand Finals - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Neemi
Profile Joined August 2012
Netherlands656 Posts
April 12 2019 20:17 GMT
#21
It makes intuitive sense that weekenders rely more on raw mechanics and execution of broadly successful strategies, while tournaments over a longer period of time allow people to prepare for a specific opponent. There's no question that Maru excels at all of these skills, but it's striking that the guy who at this point won 1 OSL, 1 SSL, 3 GSL and is in his 4th final only ever managed to win one weekender (WeSG 2017). Even back in 2013, right after winning the OSL, demolishing Symbol & Innovation along the way, he dropped out against aLive and Scarlett in the WCS Season 2 right after it. We've never had a guy be this successful in long tournaments fail to translate that success into weekender success. None of us know the real answer, so we jump to the most obvious difference between these types of tournaments, which is preparation.

In his case, I agree his mechanics are always top-notch, but his choice of strategy seems to be more hit & miss outside of GSL. Sometimes he looks like the Maru we're used to from GSL, sometimes he plays like he did against sOs in Blizzcon. During Katowice he was the only one to beat Dark in the group stage, but then he also lost to Trap 0-2 & Neeb 1-2, whom he destroyed in the GSL semi's & WeSG respectively. Even within this GSL he looked slightly shakier during group stages, then looks like a complete beast during the play-offs.

Maybe it's not preparation, but a mental edge. Whatever the case, it's a notable pattern.
Cute
TheDougler
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada8309 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-12 20:32:27
April 12 2019 20:30 GMT
#22
Out of curiosity, what's the most of any premier tournaments (MSLs and OSLs etc) that a single player won in a row in Brood War? I think Flash won 3 OSLs in a row (and then later, 3 ASLs in a row). Has 4 of any one tournament in a row ever been done before?
I root for Euro Zergs, NA Protoss* and Korean Terrans. (Any North American who has beat a Korean Pro as Protoss counts as NA Toss)
Neemi
Profile Joined August 2012
Netherlands656 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-14 06:22:46
April 12 2019 21:00 GMT
#23
On April 13 2019 05:30 TheDougler wrote:
Out of curiosity, what's the most of any premier tournaments (MSLs and OSLs etc) that a single player won in a row in Brood War? I think Flash won 3 OSLs in a row (and then later, 3 ASLs in a row). Has 4 of any one tournament in a row ever been done before?


Flash never won two OSL's in a row, only Jaedong, BoxeR (Correction: and Jangbi) did that. Flash did make 3 finals in a row (like BoxeR), won against Movie, lost to Effort, then beat Jaedong. NaDa & iloveoov won 3 MSL's in a row, Savior, Bisu & Flash won two in a row. Hydra got one between Flash's second and third win. Only Flash won multiple ASL's in a row (3).

No player in the history of BW ever won 4 of any premier tournament, which is still true since Effort beat Flash in his fourth final.

Jaedong (OSL), Savior (MSL), Flash (ASL) all reached one more final after winning 3. Nada even reached 3 more MSL finals after winning 3, but they all lost. BoxeR reached 6 OSL finals (most of any player) too, but only won 2. Savior managed to reach 5 MSL finals in a row (and won 3), which is longer than the SC2 record currently held by soO & Maru.
Cute
burnturn
Profile Joined December 2015
United States59 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-12 21:38:21
April 12 2019 21:37 GMT
#24
On April 12 2019 22:04 Nakajin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2019 21:29 Rodya wrote:
The idea the Maru relies on having time to prepare is really dumb, but it is of course a lie that people trying to promote foreigners and WCS events will continue to perpetuate (so no point in engaging with it). Stop being so obsessed with stupid statistics and narratives and actually watch Maru play... his godlikeness is not because of his preparation, its his ridiculous intuition and mechanics.

In a recent interview, Maru said that the reason he didn't go far in IEM was because of his mental being bad - nothing to do with preparation. But no, armchair players would rather concoct their own crazy theories than listen to what Maru says.

Classic 4 - 3 Maru, and this could be even more one sided against Maru - Classic's preperation should be just too good.


Well it's more then he also underperformed at WESG... and Blizzcon... and Super Tournament... and GSLvsTW.. and the other Super Tournament. Whatever the reason clearly there something there, he's 4/4 getting to the final in GSL and 1/8 in weekender since the start of last year, so there must be something.

Still I think he beat Classic, his tvp seems unbeatable right now.

Edit: it's kinda like a reverse Taeja now that I think of it


I honestly think that people underrate him in the weekenders. Last year he made the semis of Katowice only to lose in a reverse sweep by the eventual champion and teammate in Rogue. Then he won WESG. And he made the semi's of GSL vs. the World, not bad results by any margin. The disappointments are ST and Blizzcon, but ST isn't all that important so the only real disappointment is Blizzcon and IEM this year. It really isn't as bad as you might think.
sOs is best
Die4Ever
Profile Joined August 2010
United States17737 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-13 00:34:59
April 13 2019 00:29 GMT
#25
On April 13 2019 06:37 burnturn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 12 2019 22:04 Nakajin wrote:
On April 12 2019 21:29 Rodya wrote:
The idea the Maru relies on having time to prepare is really dumb, but it is of course a lie that people trying to promote foreigners and WCS events will continue to perpetuate (so no point in engaging with it). Stop being so obsessed with stupid statistics and narratives and actually watch Maru play... his godlikeness is not because of his preparation, its his ridiculous intuition and mechanics.

In a recent interview, Maru said that the reason he didn't go far in IEM was because of his mental being bad - nothing to do with preparation. But no, armchair players would rather concoct their own crazy theories than listen to what Maru says.

Classic 4 - 3 Maru, and this could be even more one sided against Maru - Classic's preperation should be just too good.


Well it's more then he also underperformed at WESG... and Blizzcon... and Super Tournament... and GSLvsTW.. and the other Super Tournament. Whatever the reason clearly there something there, he's 4/4 getting to the final in GSL and 1/8 in weekender since the start of last year, so there must be something.

Still I think he beat Classic, his tvp seems unbeatable right now.

Edit: it's kinda like a reverse Taeja now that I think of it


I honestly think that people underrate him in the weekenders. Last year he made the semis of Katowice only to lose in a reverse sweep by the eventual champion and teammate in Rogue. Then he won WESG. And he made the semi's of GSL vs. the World, not bad results by any margin. The disappointments are ST and Blizzcon, but ST isn't all that important so the only real disappointment is Blizzcon and IEM this year. It really isn't as bad as you might think.

and he did make the finals of IEM Taipei 2015 and took Life to game 7

(well now I'm sad, this should've been a long running rivalry by now)
"Expert" mods4ever.com
ValM
Profile Joined May 2010
India408 Posts
April 13 2019 05:45 GMT
#26
On April 13 2019 05:02 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 04:32 Argonauta wrote:
How peopel can say, Maru's mechanics are top noch and then also aknowledge that he relies in preparation? I know he does bad in weekenders but arent weekenders the ones that rely tthe more on mechanics?


Well, if you look at Maru's games it's pretty clear his micro and macro are very good, preparation time alone don't magically enhance mechanics.
Still, he loses weekenders and he dominates Code S; it must be some psychological factor or the inability of reading series on the fly, I'm not sure.


Yeah right because dominating Code S does not require reading series on the fly.
The Terran Prince is now the king. Maru | MMA | Mvp forever
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
April 13 2019 09:46 GMT
#27
On April 13 2019 14:45 ValM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 05:02 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 04:32 Argonauta wrote:
How peopel can say, Maru's mechanics are top noch and then also aknowledge that he relies in preparation? I know he does bad in weekenders but arent weekenders the ones that rely tthe more on mechanics?


Well, if you look at Maru's games it's pretty clear his micro and macro are very good, preparation time alone don't magically enhance mechanics.
Still, he loses weekenders and he dominates Code S; it must be some psychological factor or the inability of reading series on the fly, I'm not sure.


Yeah right because dominating Code S does not require reading series on the fly.


Less so than a weekender I guess. In any of case, I am not sure why Maru is doing relatively bad in non preparation formats, but I think we can agree there must be one reason?
It seems to happen too often, what is your explanation?
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
April 13 2019 10:19 GMT
#28
On April 13 2019 09:29 Die4Ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 06:37 burnturn wrote:
On April 12 2019 22:04 Nakajin wrote:
On April 12 2019 21:29 Rodya wrote:
The idea the Maru relies on having time to prepare is really dumb, but it is of course a lie that people trying to promote foreigners and WCS events will continue to perpetuate (so no point in engaging with it). Stop being so obsessed with stupid statistics and narratives and actually watch Maru play... his godlikeness is not because of his preparation, its his ridiculous intuition and mechanics.

In a recent interview, Maru said that the reason he didn't go far in IEM was because of his mental being bad - nothing to do with preparation. But no, armchair players would rather concoct their own crazy theories than listen to what Maru says.

Classic 4 - 3 Maru, and this could be even more one sided against Maru - Classic's preperation should be just too good.


Well it's more then he also underperformed at WESG... and Blizzcon... and Super Tournament... and GSLvsTW.. and the other Super Tournament. Whatever the reason clearly there something there, he's 4/4 getting to the final in GSL and 1/8 in weekender since the start of last year, so there must be something.

Still I think he beat Classic, his tvp seems unbeatable right now.

Edit: it's kinda like a reverse Taeja now that I think of it


I honestly think that people underrate him in the weekenders. Last year he made the semis of Katowice only to lose in a reverse sweep by the eventual champion and teammate in Rogue. Then he won WESG. And he made the semi's of GSL vs. the World, not bad results by any margin. The disappointments are ST and Blizzcon, but ST isn't all that important so the only real disappointment is Blizzcon and IEM this year. It really isn't as bad as you might think.

and he did make the finals of IEM Taipei 2015 and took Life to game 7 https://youtu.be/Kbwk2vwXNyU
(well now I'm sad, this should've been a long running rivalry by now)

Both that and the katowice ro4 vs Rogue were lost because he misbuilt his wall in one of the games. Would have been crushing victories otherwise.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
ValM
Profile Joined May 2010
India408 Posts
April 13 2019 10:27 GMT
#29
On April 13 2019 18:46 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 14:45 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 05:02 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 04:32 Argonauta wrote:
How peopel can say, Maru's mechanics are top noch and then also aknowledge that he relies in preparation? I know he does bad in weekenders but arent weekenders the ones that rely tthe more on mechanics?


Well, if you look at Maru's games it's pretty clear his micro and macro are very good, preparation time alone don't magically enhance mechanics.
Still, he loses weekenders and he dominates Code S; it must be some psychological factor or the inability of reading series on the fly, I'm not sure.


Yeah right because dominating Code S does not require reading series on the fly.


Less so than a weekender I guess. In any of case, I am not sure why Maru is doing relatively bad in non preparation formats, but I think we can agree there must be one reason?
It seems to happen too often, what is your explanation?


Just the fact that you suggest that reading a BoX in a Code S is different to that of in a weekend tournament completely blows my mind.

There is no point in me explaining anything more.
The Terran Prince is now the king. Maru | MMA | Mvp forever
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-13 10:32:34
April 13 2019 10:31 GMT
#30
On April 13 2019 18:46 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 14:45 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 05:02 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 04:32 Argonauta wrote:
How peopel can say, Maru's mechanics are top noch and then also aknowledge that he relies in preparation? I know he does bad in weekenders but arent weekenders the ones that rely tthe more on mechanics?


Well, if you look at Maru's games it's pretty clear his micro and macro are very good, preparation time alone don't magically enhance mechanics.
Still, he loses weekenders and he dominates Code S; it must be some psychological factor or the inability of reading series on the fly, I'm not sure.


Yeah right because dominating Code S does not require reading series on the fly.


Less so than a weekender I guess. In any of case, I am not sure why Maru is doing relatively bad in non preparation formats, but I think we can agree there must be one reason?
It seems to happen too often, what is your explanation?

Well weekenders are typically overseas events. There's a good chance he just isn't as good with travel. Some people aren't.

He also plays terran which (for the last nearly two years) does badly in weekenders. It's not like Maru does badly compared to other terrans in them.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
April 13 2019 10:38 GMT
#31
On April 13 2019 19:27 ValM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 18:46 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 14:45 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 05:02 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 04:32 Argonauta wrote:
How peopel can say, Maru's mechanics are top noch and then also aknowledge that he relies in preparation? I know he does bad in weekenders but arent weekenders the ones that rely tthe more on mechanics?


Well, if you look at Maru's games it's pretty clear his micro and macro are very good, preparation time alone don't magically enhance mechanics.
Still, he loses weekenders and he dominates Code S; it must be some psychological factor or the inability of reading series on the fly, I'm not sure.


Yeah right because dominating Code S does not require reading series on the fly.


Less so than a weekender I guess. In any of case, I am not sure why Maru is doing relatively bad in non preparation formats, but I think we can agree there must be one reason?
It seems to happen too often, what is your explanation?


Just the fact that you suggest that reading a BoX in a Code S is different to that of in a weekend tournament completely blows my mind.

There is no point in me explaining anything more.


Then there is no point in you replying to me at all since you actually did not say anything.

"On the fly" of course means immediately, preparation however involves imaginining different scenarios in the boX making it more comfortable to actually face the full series; during KeSpa times in Brood Wars players used to meticolously analize every single move that could be made as counter to the builds they were planning to use, I guess that makes it easier to react accordingly, don't you?

ValM
Profile Joined May 2010
India408 Posts
April 13 2019 10:49 GMT
#32
On April 13 2019 19:38 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 19:27 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 18:46 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 14:45 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 05:02 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 04:32 Argonauta wrote:
How peopel can say, Maru's mechanics are top noch and then also aknowledge that he relies in preparation? I know he does bad in weekenders but arent weekenders the ones that rely tthe more on mechanics?


Well, if you look at Maru's games it's pretty clear his micro and macro are very good, preparation time alone don't magically enhance mechanics.
Still, he loses weekenders and he dominates Code S; it must be some psychological factor or the inability of reading series on the fly, I'm not sure.


Yeah right because dominating Code S does not require reading series on the fly.


Less so than a weekender I guess. In any of case, I am not sure why Maru is doing relatively bad in non preparation formats, but I think we can agree there must be one reason?
It seems to happen too often, what is your explanation?


Just the fact that you suggest that reading a BoX in a Code S is different to that of in a weekend tournament completely blows my mind.

There is no point in me explaining anything more.


Then there is no point in you replying to me at all since you actually did not say anything.

"On the fly" of course means immediately, preparation however involves imaginining different scenarios in the boX making it more comfortable to actually face the full series; during KeSpa times in Brood Wars players used to meticolously analize every single move that could be made as counter to the builds they were planning to use, I guess that makes it easier to react accordingly, don't you?



I did say something. Read the first line of my post.

You on the whole count preparation way too much as a factor. The level these guys are almost nothing can make it comfortable to face the full series as you say. Even if they having some expectation of the kind of openers their opponent would go for all that can be shaken up by one cheesy build. A recent example would be Classic vs Dark.

Another example is Mary vs TY season 3 finals. You can see Maru constantly adapting to TY throughout the series and still opening proxy rax almost each game. Maru never really had specific builds prepared for each map or anything. By the end the way TY had been playing overall Maru knew that TY would go for the safest/greediest build and thus went for an allin. So how is that different from reading a series during a weekender?
The Terran Prince is now the king. Maru | MMA | Mvp forever
Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
April 13 2019 11:07 GMT
#33
On April 13 2019 19:49 ValM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 19:38 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 19:27 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 18:46 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 14:45 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 05:02 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 04:32 Argonauta wrote:
How peopel can say, Maru's mechanics are top noch and then also aknowledge that he relies in preparation? I know he does bad in weekenders but arent weekenders the ones that rely tthe more on mechanics?


Well, if you look at Maru's games it's pretty clear his micro and macro are very good, preparation time alone don't magically enhance mechanics.
Still, he loses weekenders and he dominates Code S; it must be some psychological factor or the inability of reading series on the fly, I'm not sure.


Yeah right because dominating Code S does not require reading series on the fly.


Less so than a weekender I guess. In any of case, I am not sure why Maru is doing relatively bad in non preparation formats, but I think we can agree there must be one reason?
It seems to happen too often, what is your explanation?


Just the fact that you suggest that reading a BoX in a Code S is different to that of in a weekend tournament completely blows my mind.

There is no point in me explaining anything more.


Then there is no point in you replying to me at all since you actually did not say anything.

"On the fly" of course means immediately, preparation however involves imaginining different scenarios in the boX making it more comfortable to actually face the full series; during KeSpa times in Brood Wars players used to meticolously analize every single move that could be made as counter to the builds they were planning to use, I guess that makes it easier to react accordingly, don't you?



I did say something. Read the first line of my post.

You on the whole count preparation way too much as a factor. The level these guys are almost nothing can make it comfortable to face the full series as you say. Even if they having some expectation of the kind of openers their opponent would go for all that can be shaken up by one cheesy build. A recent example would be Classic vs Dark.

Another example is Mary vs TY season 3 finals. You can see Maru constantly adapting to TY throughout the series and still opening proxy rax almost each game. Maru never really had specific builds prepared for each map or anything. By the end the way TY had been playing overall Maru knew that TY would go for the safest/greediest build and thus went for an allin. So how is that different from reading a series during a weekender?


Ok, let's assume preparation does not count: Maru always has top notch mechanics, his ability of reading the series and adapting on the spot is immaculate; how comes he only won one weekender? He definitely doesn't love travelling and that might be a factor; it has to be noted Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World are played in Korea just as Code S.
Fango
Profile Joined July 2016
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-13 11:22:34
April 13 2019 11:22 GMT
#34
On April 13 2019 20:07 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 19:49 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 19:38 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 19:27 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 18:46 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 14:45 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 05:02 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 04:32 Argonauta wrote:
How peopel can say, Maru's mechanics are top noch and then also aknowledge that he relies in preparation? I know he does bad in weekenders but arent weekenders the ones that rely tthe more on mechanics?


Well, if you look at Maru's games it's pretty clear his micro and macro are very good, preparation time alone don't magically enhance mechanics.
Still, he loses weekenders and he dominates Code S; it must be some psychological factor or the inability of reading series on the fly, I'm not sure.


Yeah right because dominating Code S does not require reading series on the fly.


Less so than a weekender I guess. In any of case, I am not sure why Maru is doing relatively bad in non preparation formats, but I think we can agree there must be one reason?
It seems to happen too often, what is your explanation?


Just the fact that you suggest that reading a BoX in a Code S is different to that of in a weekend tournament completely blows my mind.

There is no point in me explaining anything more.


Then there is no point in you replying to me at all since you actually did not say anything.

"On the fly" of course means immediately, preparation however involves imaginining different scenarios in the boX making it more comfortable to actually face the full series; during KeSpa times in Brood Wars players used to meticolously analize every single move that could be made as counter to the builds they were planning to use, I guess that makes it easier to react accordingly, don't you?



I did say something. Read the first line of my post.

You on the whole count preparation way too much as a factor. The level these guys are almost nothing can make it comfortable to face the full series as you say. Even if they having some expectation of the kind of openers their opponent would go for all that can be shaken up by one cheesy build. A recent example would be Classic vs Dark.

Another example is Mary vs TY season 3 finals. You can see Maru constantly adapting to TY throughout the series and still opening proxy rax almost each game. Maru never really had specific builds prepared for each map or anything. By the end the way TY had been playing overall Maru knew that TY would go for the safest/greediest build and thus went for an allin. So how is that different from reading a series during a weekender?
it has to be noted Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World are played in Korea just as Code S.

The fact he didn't seem to give a shit about super tournaments and GSLvsTW would probably suggest why he didn't do as well. Even his mechanics were worse in those events than in Code S, which fits with the fact he said he didn't practice and used them as break time.
Zest, sOs, PartinG, Dark, and Maru are the real champs. ROOT_herO is overrated. Snute, Serral, and Scarlett are the foreigner GOATs
seemsgood
Profile Joined January 2016
5527 Posts
April 13 2019 14:25 GMT
#35
On April 12 2019 16:51 pvsnp wrote:
Five years.

Five years of endless war, of skirmishes and battles, of shifting tides and fickle blessings. Five years of gains and losses across a war-torn nation, reduced to little more than churned mud and shed blood. Yet here he stands, in the same spot overlooking the same valley, ready to make it five years and a month.

Not all are so fortunate. High atop the ridge, he can still taste the smoke from the wreckage-strewn valley. Only a day ago those charnel heaps were proud armies under famed generals. He frowns at the nearest fallen standard. The Man of Iron had led the final charge, they said, a desperate, doomed attempt to break free of the slaughter field. Such was the fate of the forsaken. He squints at what looks like the Sun’s sigil, but the bloody rag of a banner could have been anything. The gods know there are plenty to choose from.

Delayed by a petty trap, he’d arrived at this familiar battleground just as dusk turned to night. Too late to do anything except make camp on the ruins of yesteryear. To rally the stragglers and hear out their grim tales of disaster. Listening painted him an eerily reminiscent picture. By all accounts the enemy was in earnest–nine full armies shrouded in a blessed nimbus. Dawn lights tawdry standards in the smoke, staking out each of their chieftain’s conquests. Psychopaths and Assassins and would-be Kingslayers abound. And over all of them, the mark of the Deformed Avatar.

In his youth he would have charged down there, filled with righteous fury, hurling his army at the enemy lines until they broke or he did. Five years ago, he’d done exactly that, and reaped a bloody toll in the doing. For a single glorious moment he’d outshone the gods themselves. But in the end, it was not enough. In the end, he’d been forced to accept that fury alone was no match for divinity.

Now he is older. Wiser. Smarter. Fury has its time and place, but so too does patience. And discipline. And deception. Five years is time enough to cross the span of heaven and earth. To make oneself anew. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

Now he wears the thrice-forged crown of the ancient homeland. He is king, and this is his kingdom. And even the gods cannot deny that.

someone pls give this man a cookie
Noonius
Profile Joined April 2012
Estonia17413 Posts
April 13 2019 15:45 GMT
#36
On April 13 2019 09:29 Die4Ever wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 06:37 burnturn wrote:
On April 12 2019 22:04 Nakajin wrote:
On April 12 2019 21:29 Rodya wrote:
The idea the Maru relies on having time to prepare is really dumb, but it is of course a lie that people trying to promote foreigners and WCS events will continue to perpetuate (so no point in engaging with it). Stop being so obsessed with stupid statistics and narratives and actually watch Maru play... his godlikeness is not because of his preparation, its his ridiculous intuition and mechanics.

In a recent interview, Maru said that the reason he didn't go far in IEM was because of his mental being bad - nothing to do with preparation. But no, armchair players would rather concoct their own crazy theories than listen to what Maru says.

Classic 4 - 3 Maru, and this could be even more one sided against Maru - Classic's preperation should be just too good.


Well it's more then he also underperformed at WESG... and Blizzcon... and Super Tournament... and GSLvsTW.. and the other Super Tournament. Whatever the reason clearly there something there, he's 4/4 getting to the final in GSL and 1/8 in weekender since the start of last year, so there must be something.

Still I think he beat Classic, his tvp seems unbeatable right now.

Edit: it's kinda like a reverse Taeja now that I think of it


I honestly think that people underrate him in the weekenders. Last year he made the semis of Katowice only to lose in a reverse sweep by the eventual champion and teammate in Rogue. Then he won WESG. And he made the semi's of GSL vs. the World, not bad results by any margin. The disappointments are ST and Blizzcon, but ST isn't all that important so the only real disappointment is Blizzcon and IEM this year. It really isn't as bad as you might think.

and he did make the finals of IEM Taipei 2015 and took Life to game 7 https://youtu.be/Kbwk2vwXNyU
(well now I'm sad, this should've been a long running rivalry by now)


Life probably let him win
Terran forever | Maru hater forever
Ej_
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
47656 Posts
Last Edited: 2019-04-13 15:56:55
April 13 2019 15:56 GMT
#37
On April 14 2019 00:45 Noonius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 09:29 Die4Ever wrote:
On April 13 2019 06:37 burnturn wrote:
On April 12 2019 22:04 Nakajin wrote:
On April 12 2019 21:29 Rodya wrote:
The idea the Maru relies on having time to prepare is really dumb, but it is of course a lie that people trying to promote foreigners and WCS events will continue to perpetuate (so no point in engaging with it). Stop being so obsessed with stupid statistics and narratives and actually watch Maru play... his godlikeness is not because of his preparation, its his ridiculous intuition and mechanics.

In a recent interview, Maru said that the reason he didn't go far in IEM was because of his mental being bad - nothing to do with preparation. But no, armchair players would rather concoct their own crazy theories than listen to what Maru says.

Classic 4 - 3 Maru, and this could be even more one sided against Maru - Classic's preperation should be just too good.


Well it's more then he also underperformed at WESG... and Blizzcon... and Super Tournament... and GSLvsTW.. and the other Super Tournament. Whatever the reason clearly there something there, he's 4/4 getting to the final in GSL and 1/8 in weekender since the start of last year, so there must be something.

Still I think he beat Classic, his tvp seems unbeatable right now.

Edit: it's kinda like a reverse Taeja now that I think of it


I honestly think that people underrate him in the weekenders. Last year he made the semis of Katowice only to lose in a reverse sweep by the eventual champion and teammate in Rogue. Then he won WESG. And he made the semi's of GSL vs. the World, not bad results by any margin. The disappointments are ST and Blizzcon, but ST isn't all that important so the only real disappointment is Blizzcon and IEM this year. It really isn't as bad as you might think.

and he did make the finals of IEM Taipei 2015 and took Life to game 7 https://youtu.be/Kbwk2vwXNyU
(well now I'm sad, this should've been a long running rivalry by now)


Life probably let him win

Life was actually extremely hangover during the series (had to vomit in between the games), which at least partially explains how Maru kept it competitive after the stomp in game 1.
"Technically the dictionary has zero authority on the meaning or words" - Rodya
Johny1
Profile Joined February 2019
Poland39 Posts
April 13 2019 18:04 GMT
#38
Classic looking good but.....when you actually watch Maru you suddenly realize he is in his bonjwa shoes atm. Untouchable unfuc...ble.
Anyway hoping for at least 6 games with one long macro.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27000 Posts
April 13 2019 18:37 GMT
#39
On April 13 2019 20:07 Xain0n wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2019 19:49 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 19:38 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 19:27 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 18:46 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 14:45 ValM wrote:
On April 13 2019 05:02 Xain0n wrote:
On April 13 2019 04:32 Argonauta wrote:
How peopel can say, Maru's mechanics are top noch and then also aknowledge that he relies in preparation? I know he does bad in weekenders but arent weekenders the ones that rely tthe more on mechanics?


Well, if you look at Maru's games it's pretty clear his micro and macro are very good, preparation time alone don't magically enhance mechanics.
Still, he loses weekenders and he dominates Code S; it must be some psychological factor or the inability of reading series on the fly, I'm not sure.


Yeah right because dominating Code S does not require reading series on the fly.


Less so than a weekender I guess. In any of case, I am not sure why Maru is doing relatively bad in non preparation formats, but I think we can agree there must be one reason?
It seems to happen too often, what is your explanation?


Just the fact that you suggest that reading a BoX in a Code S is different to that of in a weekend tournament completely blows my mind.

There is no point in me explaining anything more.


Then there is no point in you replying to me at all since you actually did not say anything.

"On the fly" of course means immediately, preparation however involves imaginining different scenarios in the boX making it more comfortable to actually face the full series; during KeSpa times in Brood Wars players used to meticolously analize every single move that could be made as counter to the builds they were planning to use, I guess that makes it easier to react accordingly, don't you?



I did say something. Read the first line of my post.

You on the whole count preparation way too much as a factor. The level these guys are almost nothing can make it comfortable to face the full series as you say. Even if they having some expectation of the kind of openers their opponent would go for all that can be shaken up by one cheesy build. A recent example would be Classic vs Dark.

Another example is Mary vs TY season 3 finals. You can see Maru constantly adapting to TY throughout the series and still opening proxy rax almost each game. Maru never really had specific builds prepared for each map or anything. By the end the way TY had been playing overall Maru knew that TY would go for the safest/greediest build and thus went for an allin. So how is that different from reading a series during a weekender?


Ok, let's assume preparation does not count: Maru always has top notch mechanics, his ability of reading the series and adapting on the spot is immaculate; how comes he only won one weekender? He definitely doesn't love travelling and that might be a factor; it has to be noted Super Tournaments and GSL vs the World are played in Korea just as Code S.

It honestly makes close to zero sense to me looking in as an outsider. Perhaps he just has certain particular nerve/environment issues or something like that. Can only speculate without knowing the guy and how he's wired. Some players show their absolute best level of play on ladder with nothing on the line and relaxing in their house, some people actually just play better in tournaments where adrenaline and pressure seems to help them focus, people are strange creatures.

It does just seem odd because unless you're terrible strategically, being a mechanical monster tends to be super, super important for a weekender. You can't prep, that works both ways, your opponents can't prep that hard for you either, so in theory Mr Mechanics should be able to be more consistent in that environment.

Taeja in weekenders wasn't particularly atypically smart or bringing new builds to a tournament, he seemed to mostly win with a mechanical/consistency of execution advantage over the fields of the day, and Maru absolutely has that advantage in his locker, although it's probably less pronounced and harder to be that much better than your opponents mechanically these days.

Also it is just difficult to win get over the line and win things anyway (just ask soO historically), his weekend record isn't that bad at all (well it's very good actually) he just hasn't actually won much. He's judged by his own crazy GSL peak rather than vs the standards of the scene. If some new Terran called Uram turned up and had equivalent weekender results, he'd be hyped as hell as one of the best players in the scene.

Starcraft 2 is quite similar to golf in competitivity, where placing top 10 consistently over a period means you're elite level, doing that and winning the odd tournament (especially a major) means you're 100% one of the best players in the world, and nobody has ever really won even close to every tournament they have entered, even the GOATs





'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
sneakyfox
Profile Joined January 2017
8216 Posts
April 13 2019 18:41 GMT
#40
It's time for Good vs Evil part II.

soO did it, he took down Serral. Now it's time for Classic to finish the job.

FIGHTING
"I saw what sneakyfox wrote on TL.net and it made me furious" - PartinG
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