On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
On April 13 2019 05:30 TheDougler wrote: Out of curiosity, what's the most of any premier tournaments (MSLs and OSLs etc) that a single player won in a row in Brood War? I think Flash won 3 OSLs in a row (and then later, 3 ASLs in a row). Has 4 of any one tournament in a row ever been done before?
Flash never won two OSL's in a row, only Jaedong and BoxeR did that. Flash did make 3 finals in a row (like BoxeR), won against Movie, lost to Effort, then beat Jaedong. NaDa & iloveoov won 3 MSL's in a row, Savior, Bisu & Flash won two in a row. Hydra got one between Flash's second and third win. Only Flash won multiple ASL's in a row (3).
No player in the history of BW ever won 4 of any premier tournament, which is still true since Effort beat Flash in his fourth final.
Jaedong (OSL), Savior (MSL), Flash (ASL) all reached one more final after winning 3. Nada even reached 3 more MSL finals after winning 3, but they all lost. BoxeR reached 6 OSL finals (most of any player) too, but only won 2. Savior managed to reach 5 MSL finals in a row (and won 3), which is longer than the SC2 record currently held by soO & Maru.
Didn't Jangbi win 2 in a row? They were in different years though.
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
It's funny how it's never the opposite.
Since LotV was released, Protoss only won 2 Code S, and Zerg only won a SINGLE Code S (compared to Terran 6). Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
well it would be extremely unwise to play race apologist's game.no one should ever mention race winning history or individual performance when talking about the current balance tho force them to play your own game and you will seldomly lose an argument
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
It's funny how it's never the opposite.
Since LotV was released, Protoss only won 2 Code S, and Zerg only won a SINGLE Code S (compared to Terran 6). Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
Well the goalposts just seem to shift all the time. When Terran have strong periods they’re just better players, when they have relative weak periods it’s ‘you have to be as good as Maru to win anything.’
Well no shit, you have to be amongst the best players of your race to win tournaments in the current era. Which is true across the races. Innovation just won WESG, Terrans don’t seem to be doing too badly in the Code S qualifications, although they had a bad super tournament.
I like Starcraft 2’s racial asymmetry a lot, more so than Brood War and certainly way more than Warcraft 3’s, although there are elements of those games I like a lot more than SC2
The races play differently in fundamentally ways, and they reward different skillsets so there’s room for different types of player to prosper.
Crudely (really crudely) speaking Protoss rely on tricks and super tight builds and timings, and mixing it up, although easiest mechanically. Zerg rely on reading tricks and making smart defensive decisions and juggling their larva mechanic, are crazy APM dependent if you are aiming to hit every inject and have a ton of ceiling there. Terran you do have to have some aggression and technical builds to slow down the other races, but you’re less reliant on outright tricks than Protoss, but you can get way more out of your units with micro, conversely your units are way worse with bad micro.
Terrans have balance whined since Wings (those that do) along a vague rationale of ‘we have to micro so hard’ or more nuanced variants, and ignore the other side of the coin consistently.
Regardless of who wins, and I hope it’s Classic (purely for him to get it before military and for being a consistently great player), there will 100% be at least one game where Classic is in some situation where Maru displays some stellar micro and crushes Classic and people wax lyrical about it, ignoring the fact that Classic literally can’t do that micro with his units.
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
well it would be extremely unwise to play race apologist's game.no one should ever mention race winning history or individual performance when talking about the current balance tho force them to play your own game and you will seldomly lose an argument
race winning history is not irrelevant. it is a testament to the general design of the races, as well as a benchmark for the effectiveness of subsequent balance changes.
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
It's funny how it's never the opposite.
Since LotV was released, Protoss only won 2 Code S, and Zerg only won a SINGLE Code S (compared to Terran 6). Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
Well the goalposts just seem to shift all the time. When Terran have strong periods they’re just better players, when they have relative weak periods it’s ‘you have to be as good as Maru to win anything.’
Well no shit, you have to be amongst the best players of your race to win tournaments in the current era. Which is true across the races. Innovation just won WESG, Terrans don’t seem to be doing too badly in the Code S qualifications, although they had a bad super tournament.
I like Starcraft 2’s racial asymmetry a lot, more so than Brood War and certainly way more than Warcraft 3’s, although there are elements of those games I like a lot more than SC2
The races play differently in fundamentally ways, and they reward different skillsets so there’s room for different types of player to prosper.
Crudely (really crudely) speaking Protoss rely on tricks and super tight builds and timings, and mixing it up, although easiest mechanically. Zerg rely on reading tricks and making smart defensive decisions and juggling their larva mechanic, are crazy APM dependent if you are aiming to hit every inject and have a ton of ceiling there. Terran you do have to have some aggression and technical builds to slow down the other races, but you’re less reliant on outright tricks than Protoss, but you can get way more out of your units with micro, conversely your units are way worse with bad micro.
Terrans have balance whined since Wings (those that do) along a vague rationale of ‘we have to micro so hard’ or more nuanced variants, and ignore the other side of the coin consistently.
Regardless of who wins, and I hope it’s Classic (purely for him to get it before military and for being a consistently great player), there will 100% be at least one game where Classic is in some situation where Maru displays some stellar micro and crushes Classic and people wax lyrical about it, ignoring the fact that Classic literally can’t do that micro with his units.
Yup, exactly. I've had people on this site literally tell me that the top Terran players are just more skilled lmfao
the only part is disagree with is that terran units are way worse with bad micro. Protoss armies are the worst with poor control . Not microing terran units has a higher opportunity cost, though.
I'm pulling for classic as well, for the same reason.
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
well it would be extremely unwise to play race apologist's game.no one should ever mention race winning history or individual performance when talking about the current balance tho force them to play your own game and you will seldomly lose an argument
race winning history is not irrelevant. it is a testament to the general design of the races, as well as a benchmark for the effectiveness of subsequent balance changes.
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
It's funny how it's never the opposite.
Since LotV was released, Protoss only won 2 Code S, and Zerg only won a SINGLE Code S (compared to Terran 6). Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
Well the goalposts just seem to shift all the time. When Terran have strong periods they’re just better players, when they have relative weak periods it’s ‘you have to be as good as Maru to win anything.’
Well no shit, you have to be amongst the best players of your race to win tournaments in the current era. Which is true across the races. Innovation just won WESG, Terrans don’t seem to be doing too badly in the Code S qualifications, although they had a bad super tournament.
I like Starcraft 2’s racial asymmetry a lot, more so than Brood War and certainly way more than Warcraft 3’s, although there are elements of those games I like a lot more than SC2
The races play differently in fundamentally ways, and they reward different skillsets so there’s room for different types of player to prosper.
Crudely (really crudely) speaking Protoss rely on tricks and super tight builds and timings, and mixing it up, although easiest mechanically. Zerg rely on reading tricks and making smart defensive decisions and juggling their larva mechanic, are crazy APM dependent if you are aiming to hit every inject and have a ton of ceiling there. Terran you do have to have some aggression and technical builds to slow down the other races, but you’re less reliant on outright tricks than Protoss, but you can get way more out of your units with micro, conversely your units are way worse with bad micro.
Terrans have balance whined since Wings (those that do) along a vague rationale of ‘we have to micro so hard’ or more nuanced variants, and ignore the other side of the coin consistently.
Regardless of who wins, and I hope it’s Classic (purely for him to get it before military and for being a consistently great player), there will 100% be at least one game where Classic is in some situation where Maru displays some stellar micro and crushes Classic and people wax lyrical about it, ignoring the fact that Classic literally can’t do that micro with his units.
Yup, exactly. I've had people on this site literally tell me that the top Terran players are just more skilled lmfao
the only part is disagree with is that terran units are way worse with bad micro. Protoss armies are the worst with poor control . Not microing terran units has a higher opportunity cost, though.
I'm pulling for classic as well, for the same reason.
I mean true, although I just tend to file that in ‘casting spells well’ rather than micro, although it is obviously micro.
If I fuck up my forcefields, or mess my Templar positioning or storm badly, I can just die outright, or I can be left in a position where I can’t gain nearly as much through ‘great gate unit micro as Terran can, with bio especially.
Relative to my skill, micro is by far the thing I’m best at in SC2 although my macro is ok. People were legitimately surprised way, way back when I switched to Terran from Protoss and got back to my Protoss MMR in about two weeks. Kind of made sense to me as I switched because I felt I couldn’t use my best skill enough as P in those days.
Again relative to my own skill, my best period by far in PvP was when it was 4 gate vs 4 gate. Protoss units are actually really microable in small engagements they just don’t scale all that well. I played a lot of Warcraft 3, I find micro the most enjoyable aspect of RTS, so I’m obviously going to prosper in 4 gate wars.
I’m absolutely terrible with Zerg though, which IMO is fine, and part of why I like SC2 a lot.
I was good with Protoss grinding similar builds and playing defensive reactive macro, I was good with Terran opening literally 1 rax gasless FE in all 3 matchups and trying to our mechanic my opponent. I was terrible at playing Zerg because I was and still am bad at making good reactive decisions with that race.
Which is super cool IMO, I like that it leaves that room, and this applies to matchups too.
I’ve generally always been one of the wonkiest players I know, but I like that and if one can understand why, it’s not really a balance thing.
Back in the day my friends gradually outstripped me in MMR as I stopped playing so much. My Terran friends would still practice with me because my PvT was so good relative to my other matchups, I think at one point my PvT was 70% plus vs my PvZ was around the 30s
Which I think is a cool thing about Starcraft 2. Obviously at the pro level you don’t want such huge gaps, but having the races play so differently and the matchups play differently is something I like about the game for sure.
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
well it would be extremely unwise to play race apologist's game.no one should ever mention race winning history or individual performance when talking about the current balance tho force them to play your own game and you will seldomly lose an argument
race winning history is not irrelevant. it is a testament to the general design of the races, as well as a benchmark for the effectiveness of subsequent balance changes.
negative.the stastics are too old for 2019 and might not related to one's claiming OP subject. for example ,If i say TvP is protoss favored because of chargelots then you guys shouldn't throw one billions terran's wins into my face and say TvP is fucking fine.Nope real men don't do that.reading stastics is uncle blizzard's job not us who give feedback and argue
@wombat or you know....may be when people whine about one race too stronk based on watching pro games.it already has nothing to do with thier daily shits at the beginning ...[/QUOTE]
On April 12 2019 21:29 Rodya wrote: The idea the Maru relies on having time to prepare is really dumb, but it is of course a lie that people trying to promote foreigners and WCS events will continue to perpetuate (so no point in engaging with it). Stop being so obsessed with stupid statistics and narratives and actually watch Maru play... his godlikeness is not because of his preparation, its his ridiculous intuition and mechanics.
In a recent interview, Maru said that the reason he didn't go far in IEM was because of his mental being bad - nothing to do with preparation. But no, armchair players would rather concoct their own crazy theories than listen to what Maru says.
Classic 4 - 3 Maru, and this could be even more one sided against Maru - Classic's preperation should be just too good.
Well it's more then he also underperformed at WESG... and Blizzcon... and Super Tournament... and GSLvsTW.. and the other Super Tournament. Whatever the reason clearly there something there, he's 4/4 getting to the final in GSL and 1/8 in weekender since the start of last year, so there must be something.
Still I think he beat Classic, his tvp seems unbeatable right now.
Edit: it's kinda like a reverse Taeja now that I think of it
I honestly think that people underrate him in the weekenders. Last year he made the semis of Katowice only to lose in a reverse sweep by the eventual champion and teammate in Rogue. Then he won WESG. And he made the semi's of GSL vs. the World, not bad results by any margin. The disappointments are ST and Blizzcon, but ST isn't all that important so the only real disappointment is Blizzcon and IEM this year. It really isn't as bad as you might think.
and he did make the finals of IEM Taipei 2015 and took Life to game 7 (well now I'm sad, this should've been a long running rivalry by now)
Yeah it really should have. Life was my favorite Zerg when he was around, and he could have had great rivalries with some of the players of today like Maru, sOs, INno, Serral, Neeb, etc. and SCII would have been better for it. I watched that finals though and it was a fun watch, one of my favorites.
On April 14 2019 08:59 seemsgood wrote: @wombat or you know....may be when people whine about one race too stronk based on watching pro games.it already has nothing to do with thier daily shits at the beginning ...
Haha, also that.
There are periods where it’s not always wrong either, Terrans have been balance whining more consistently then the other two races over SC2’s life. Micro is hard or something, which is the only thing to take into consideration in ascertaining a good player, screw good planning or strategic reads.
The old Slayers blue flame hellion drop build was, absolutely silly. Or the 1/1/1 allin for a period. Protoss players had a hard time when the early Roach max was refined. Protoss players had a horrible time when BL/Infestor was so strong.
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
well it would be extremely unwise to play race apologist's game.no one should ever mention race winning history or individual performance when talking about the current balance tho force them to play your own game and you will seldomly lose an argument
race winning history is not irrelevant. it is a testament to the general design of the races, as well as a benchmark for the effectiveness of subsequent balance changes.
On April 14 2019 07:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
On April 14 2019 05:30 BerserkSword wrote:
On April 14 2019 04:05 brickrd wrote:
On April 12 2019 19:57 Harris1st wrote:
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
It's funny how it's never the opposite.
Since LotV was released, Protoss only won 2 Code S, and Zerg only won a SINGLE Code S (compared to Terran 6). Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
Well the goalposts just seem to shift all the time. When Terran have strong periods they’re just better players, when they have relative weak periods it’s ‘you have to be as good as Maru to win anything.’
Well no shit, you have to be amongst the best players of your race to win tournaments in the current era. Which is true across the races. Innovation just won WESG, Terrans don’t seem to be doing too badly in the Code S qualifications, although they had a bad super tournament.
I like Starcraft 2’s racial asymmetry a lot, more so than Brood War and certainly way more than Warcraft 3’s, although there are elements of those games I like a lot more than SC2
The races play differently in fundamentally ways, and they reward different skillsets so there’s room for different types of player to prosper.
Crudely (really crudely) speaking Protoss rely on tricks and super tight builds and timings, and mixing it up, although easiest mechanically. Zerg rely on reading tricks and making smart defensive decisions and juggling their larva mechanic, are crazy APM dependent if you are aiming to hit every inject and have a ton of ceiling there. Terran you do have to have some aggression and technical builds to slow down the other races, but you’re less reliant on outright tricks than Protoss, but you can get way more out of your units with micro, conversely your units are way worse with bad micro.
Terrans have balance whined since Wings (those that do) along a vague rationale of ‘we have to micro so hard’ or more nuanced variants, and ignore the other side of the coin consistently.
Regardless of who wins, and I hope it’s Classic (purely for him to get it before military and for being a consistently great player), there will 100% be at least one game where Classic is in some situation where Maru displays some stellar micro and crushes Classic and people wax lyrical about it, ignoring the fact that Classic literally can’t do that micro with his units.
Yup, exactly. I've had people on this site literally tell me that the top Terran players are just more skilled lmfao
the only part is disagree with is that terran units are way worse with bad micro. Protoss armies are the worst with poor control . Not microing terran units has a higher opportunity cost, though.
I'm pulling for classic as well, for the same reason.
I mean true, although I just tend to file that in ‘casting spells well’ rather than micro, although it is obviously micro.
If I fuck up my forcefields, or mess my Templar positioning or storm badly, I can just die outright, or I can be left in a position where I can’t gain nearly as much through ‘great gate unit micro as Terran can, with bio especially.
Relative to my skill, micro is by far the thing I’m best at in SC2 although my macro is ok. People were legitimately surprised way, way back when I switched to Terran from Protoss and got back to my Protoss MMR in about two weeks. Kind of made sense to me as I switched because I felt I couldn’t use my best skill enough as P in those days.
Again relative to my own skill, my best period by far in PvP was when it was 4 gate vs 4 gate. Protoss units are actually really microable in small engagements they just don’t scale all that well. I played a lot of Warcraft 3, I find micro the most enjoyable aspect of RTS, so I’m obviously going to prosper in 4 gate wars.
I’m absolutely terrible with Zerg though, which IMO is fine, and part of why I like SC2 a lot.
I was good with Protoss grinding similar builds and playing defensive reactive macro, I was good with Terran opening literally 1 rax gasless FE in all 3 matchups and trying to our mechanic my opponent. I was terrible at playing Zerg because I was and still am bad at making good reactive decisions with that race.
Which is super cool IMO, I like that it leaves that room, and this applies to matchups too.
I’ve generally always been one of the wonkiest players I know, but I like that and if one can understand why, it’s not really a balance thing.
Back in the day my friends gradually outstripped me in MMR as I stopped playing so much. My Terran friends would still practice with me because my PvT was so good relative to my other matchups, I think at one point my PvT was 70% plus vs my PvZ was around the 30s
Which I think is a cool thing about Starcraft 2. Obviously at the pro level you don’t want such huge gaps, but having the races play so differently and the matchups play differently is something I like about the game for sure.
I mean even aside from spell casting, there is so much you have to micro as Protoss. splitting zealots when engaging bio + mine, blink, warp prism micro, etc. It's funny because I actually used to main protoss, then I switched to terran because the protoss army is too difficult to control. But yea most non-protoss players dont seem to understand how unforgiving protoss micro can be. If your HTs are in the wrong place, or you use a dumb storm, or you slip on some force fields, bad disruptor shot, etc, your ridiculously expensive army could just get steamrolled.
Funny thing i used to play a lot of wc3 and am garbage with zerg as well
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
well it would be extremely unwise to play race apologist's game.no one should ever mention race winning history or individual performance when talking about the current balance tho force them to play your own game and you will seldomly lose an argument
race winning history is not irrelevant. it is a testament to the general design of the races, as well as a benchmark for the effectiveness of subsequent balance changes.
On April 14 2019 07:51 Wombat_NI wrote:
On April 14 2019 05:30 BerserkSword wrote:
On April 14 2019 04:05 brickrd wrote:
On April 12 2019 19:57 Harris1st wrote:
On April 12 2019 19:32 HolydaKing wrote: Classic 4-0 Maru let's go!
On one hand, that would be really funny. On the other hand, that would mean the TvP matchup needs to be looked at immediately
the fact that people actually think this way is so absurd to me. we literally worship individual players to the point where they aren't "allowed" to have off days or play badly. it's so intellectually bankrupt to be planning balance whines ahead of time just in case someone loses, without having seen any games. we used to do this with Innovation too
It's funny how it's never the opposite.
Since LotV was released, Protoss only won 2 Code S, and Zerg only won a SINGLE Code S (compared to Terran 6). Nobody bats an eye at those facts tho
Well the goalposts just seem to shift all the time. When Terran have strong periods they’re just better players, when they have relative weak periods it’s ‘you have to be as good as Maru to win anything.’
Well no shit, you have to be amongst the best players of your race to win tournaments in the current era. Which is true across the races. Innovation just won WESG, Terrans don’t seem to be doing too badly in the Code S qualifications, although they had a bad super tournament.
I like Starcraft 2’s racial asymmetry a lot, more so than Brood War and certainly way more than Warcraft 3’s, although there are elements of those games I like a lot more than SC2
The races play differently in fundamentally ways, and they reward different skillsets so there’s room for different types of player to prosper.
Crudely (really crudely) speaking Protoss rely on tricks and super tight builds and timings, and mixing it up, although easiest mechanically. Zerg rely on reading tricks and making smart defensive decisions and juggling their larva mechanic, are crazy APM dependent if you are aiming to hit every inject and have a ton of ceiling there. Terran you do have to have some aggression and technical builds to slow down the other races, but you’re less reliant on outright tricks than Protoss, but you can get way more out of your units with micro, conversely your units are way worse with bad micro.
Terrans have balance whined since Wings (those that do) along a vague rationale of ‘we have to micro so hard’ or more nuanced variants, and ignore the other side of the coin consistently.
Regardless of who wins, and I hope it’s Classic (purely for him to get it before military and for being a consistently great player), there will 100% be at least one game where Classic is in some situation where Maru displays some stellar micro and crushes Classic and people wax lyrical about it, ignoring the fact that Classic literally can’t do that micro with his units.
Yup, exactly. I've had people on this site literally tell me that the top Terran players are just more skilled lmfao
the only part is disagree with is that terran units are way worse with bad micro. Protoss armies are the worst with poor control . Not microing terran units has a higher opportunity cost, though.
I'm pulling for classic as well, for the same reason.
I mean true, although I just tend to file that in ‘casting spells well’ rather than micro, although it is obviously micro.
If I fuck up my forcefields, or mess my Templar positioning or storm badly, I can just die outright, or I can be left in a position where I can’t gain nearly as much through ‘great gate unit micro as Terran can, with bio especially.
Relative to my skill, micro is by far the thing I’m best at in SC2 although my macro is ok. People were legitimately surprised way, way back when I switched to Terran from Protoss and got back to my Protoss MMR in about two weeks. Kind of made sense to me as I switched because I felt I couldn’t use my best skill enough as P in those days.
Again relative to my own skill, my best period by far in PvP was when it was 4 gate vs 4 gate. Protoss units are actually really microable in small engagements they just don’t scale all that well. I played a lot of Warcraft 3, I find micro the most enjoyable aspect of RTS, so I’m obviously going to prosper in 4 gate wars.
I’m absolutely terrible with Zerg though, which IMO is fine, and part of why I like SC2 a lot.
I was good with Protoss grinding similar builds and playing defensive reactive macro, I was good with Terran opening literally 1 rax gasless FE in all 3 matchups and trying to our mechanic my opponent. I was terrible at playing Zerg because I was and still am bad at making good reactive decisions with that race.
Which is super cool IMO, I like that it leaves that room, and this applies to matchups too.
I’ve generally always been one of the wonkiest players I know, but I like that and if one can understand why, it’s not really a balance thing.
Back in the day my friends gradually outstripped me in MMR as I stopped playing so much. My Terran friends would still practice with me because my PvT was so good relative to my other matchups, I think at one point my PvT was 70% plus vs my PvZ was around the 30s
Which I think is a cool thing about Starcraft 2. Obviously at the pro level you don’t want such huge gaps, but having the races play so differently and the matchups play differently is something I like about the game for sure.
I mean even aside from spell casting, there is so much you have to micro as Protoss. splitting zealots when engaging bio + mine, blink, warp prism micro, etc. It's funny because I actually used to main protoss, then I switched to terran because the protoss army is too difficult to control. But yea most non-protoss players dont seem to understand how unforgiving protoss micro can be. If your HTs are in the wrong place, or you use a dumb storm, or you slip on some force fields, bad disruptor shot, etc, your ridiculously expensive army could just get steamrolled.
Funny thing i used to play a lot of wc3 and am garbage with zerg as well
Yeah Protoss is super unforgiving, Terran is also unforgiving but you can get more.
Protoss is like you can fuck up forcefields and micro like a god and still die. Terran you can fuck up but micro like a god and maybe you can recover. Warcraft 3 is less volatile, longer engagements, so if you have better micro by a decent degree you can make a mistake and still always win if you microva long engagement consistently better.
Which is cool, on the other hand in WC3 you can approach an engagement way better initially strategically, initially execute better and still ultimately die because your opponent micros little things better over minutes of game time.
On April 13 2019 05:30 TheDougler wrote: Out of curiosity, what's the most of any premier tournaments (MSLs and OSLs etc) that a single player won in a row in Brood War? I think Flash won 3 OSLs in a row (and then later, 3 ASLs in a row). Has 4 of any one tournament in a row ever been done before?
Flash never won two OSL's in a row, only Jaedong and BoxeR did that. Flash did make 3 finals in a row (like BoxeR), won against Movie, lost to Effort, then beat Jaedong. NaDa & iloveoov won 3 MSL's in a row, Savior, Bisu & Flash won two in a row. Hydra got one between Flash's second and third win. Only Flash won multiple ASL's in a row (3).
No player in the history of BW ever won 4 of any premier tournament, which is still true since Effort beat Flash in his fourth final.
Jaedong (OSL), Savior (MSL), Flash (ASL) all reached one more final after winning 3. Nada even reached 3 more MSL finals after winning 3, but they all lost. BoxeR reached 6 OSL finals (most of any player) too, but only won 2. Savior managed to reach 5 MSL finals in a row (and won 3), which is longer than the SC2 record currently held by soO & Maru.
Didn't Jangbi win 2 in a row? They were in different years though.
You're quite right! When going through the history I kinda just discarded the SC2 era in my mind because of how messy it was, but Jangbi definitely deserves to be on that list too. Jangbi & Fantasy each defeated Flash in play-offs to have the finals between them twice, after all, so no lucky breaks there.
Feel like Classic will make it an epic series. HIs preparation has been stellar in the last 2 series. I can tell from his games and from his reaction after beating Dark that he wants to win so badly. I hope he does win this one 4-3.
EPT
