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On February 28 2019 10:46 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2019 06:08 Fango wrote:On February 27 2019 23:52 DieuCure wrote:On February 27 2019 23:46 starkiller123 wrote:On February 27 2019 23:40 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2019 21:53 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote:
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. 2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable. not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player. not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past. Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue. INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny, Byun, Byul and hero are retired players lol. soO peaked a year and 4 months ago i guess, Classic last year, Dark is regular. Even if they practice less harder ( for some players) than in 2014, how can you say that they are weaker since they have 5+ years of accumulation of knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice.Same goes for the brood war scene.
you don't continuously improve as you practice more. If that would be true young players would never be able to break into the scene because their opponents have 5+ years more of accumulated practice.
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 28 2019 12:47 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2019 10:46 DieuCure wrote:On February 28 2019 06:08 Fango wrote:On February 27 2019 23:52 DieuCure wrote:On February 27 2019 23:46 starkiller123 wrote:On February 27 2019 23:40 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2019 21:53 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote:
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. 2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable. not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player. not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past. Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue. INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny, Byun, Byul and hero are retired players lol. soO peaked a year and 4 months ago i guess, Classic last year, Dark is regular. Even if they practice less harder ( for some players) than in 2014, how can you say that they are weaker since they have 5+ years of accumulation of knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice.Same goes for the brood war scene. you don't continuously improve as you practice more. If that would be true young players would never be able to break into the scene because their opponents have 5+ years more of accumulated practice.
Well not necesserely if the whole scene gets better then the younger player will have better practice at the start and wont have to figure out everything the older one did, it's basicly the whole reason why some scene are better than other and why the scene improved. And it work in traditionnaly sports too you if you have to figure out how to do a decent slapshot on your own then you"ll have an harder time then the one comming after you and using what you did.
Dosen't mean the older player can't be improving, just that the younger one should get to their skills level faster than they themself did.
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Cant' help but chuckle when looking at SpeCials group.
Godspeed.
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On February 28 2019 12:47 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2019 10:46 DieuCure wrote:On February 28 2019 06:08 Fango wrote:On February 27 2019 23:52 DieuCure wrote:On February 27 2019 23:46 starkiller123 wrote:On February 27 2019 23:40 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2019 21:53 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote:
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. 2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable. not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player. not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past. Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue. INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny, Byun, Byul and hero are retired players lol. soO peaked a year and 4 months ago i guess, Classic last year, Dark is regular. Even if they practice less harder ( for some players) than in 2014, how can you say that they are weaker since they have 5+ years of accumulation of knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice.Same goes for the brood war scene. you don't continuously improve as you practice more. If that would be true young players would never be able to break into the scene because their opponents have 5+ years more of accumulated practice.
Obviously, the notion of diminishing returns would be appropriate here.
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On February 28 2019 00:23 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2019 23:57 DieuCure wrote:
Top players i mean, how can you think that TY for example is weaker than in the past ? just quoting myself here Show nested quote +On November 27 2018 00:37 Charoisaur wrote:On November 26 2018 22:45 Xain0n wrote:On November 26 2018 22:27 Hvvacha wrote:On November 26 2018 21:20 kajtarp wrote:On November 26 2018 21:12 ParksonVN wrote:
It's a fact that no matter how many titles Serral gets from now on, he will never surpass MVP, Inno, Life, Zest or even sOs in the SC2 all time ranking. Why? Becoz the Korean scene, aka the main scene is dead, this era is by far not the highest skilled one because i don't see that in the games. When you are as talented and hard-working and live with as many advantages as Serral, it's not hard to continue the dominance compared to the top Korean. At least Serral can farm 4 ez-money WCS a year while the rest of the best players have to compete for just 3 GSLs and a super tournament.
SC2 can get better i believe, but in "entertainment wise", not "skill wise" or "esport wise" when the main scene is that restricted (not all Blizzard's fault though). I disagree. Yes, the level of GSL RO32 is not really strong anymore. I must admit, i tend to skip it most of the time. But the top of the scene remained more or less from the top of HotS (most GSL,Blizzcon and SSL winners from the end) with some new stars emerging like TY, Stats and Rogue. GSL RO16 is still very very strong. We lost Life due to his matchfixing, and we lost Rain to Brood War, Taeja coming back. Other than that, who did we lose who was GSL/SSL/Blizzcon winning caliber in 2015? If we take a look at the current GSL Ro16's it's mostly stacked with mutliple GSL/SS/Blizzcon winners. you forgot that all these gsl/ssl/blizzcon winners are far past their prime and became older, less motivated etc etc. and serral is younger than everybody + maru. Older for sure, FAR past their prime not that true, less motivated i doubt since money prizes have skyrocketed. In BW the oldest player to ever win an OSL was Jangbi with 23 years. Usually players couldn't keep up anymore at an advanced age and got surpassed by the younger generation. The reason the current koreans are still competitive is because there's no new blood to surpass them. If you think players don't get worse at a higher age than you must think that it's just a coincidence that every single bw player older than 23 couldn't keep up anymore. You can even see it in the foreign scene with Nerchio, Snute and Mana suddenly being surpassed by Serral, Neeb, Elazer, Reynor and co despite being the top foreigners for years. Did they just get lazy? I don't think so. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the youngest player in the korean scene is now suddenly dominating the scene in his 8th year as a progamer. TY is only 24 and was quite of a late bloomer so he specificially might be stronger than in like 2014 but the majority of the korean scene is way weaker now.
This is interesting.
Why do you think that is? With the new blood I mean. Opportunity? I mean, money is still good. Region lock can't be it, BW Pro's didn't travel to foreign land. Why not just give it a shot? There are enough online cups to get yourself started, if Code S is too hard yet.
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On February 28 2019 12:47 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2019 10:46 DieuCure wrote:On February 28 2019 06:08 Fango wrote:On February 27 2019 23:52 DieuCure wrote:On February 27 2019 23:46 starkiller123 wrote:On February 27 2019 23:40 Charoisaur wrote:On February 27 2019 21:53 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote:
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. 2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable. not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player. not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past. Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue. INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny, Byun, Byul and hero are retired players lol. soO peaked a year and 4 months ago i guess, Classic last year, Dark is regular. Even if they practice less harder ( for some players) than in 2014, how can you say that they are weaker since they have 5+ years of accumulation of knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice.Same goes for the brood war scene. you don't continuously improve as you practice more. If that would be true young players would never be able to break into the scene because their opponents have 5+ years more of accumulated practice.
There is such a thing as bad practice where you just play to do the same thing over and over without actively trying to do it better or adjust your play to minimize your weaknesses but it is worth remembering that the scene as a whole improves as a group, one player gets ahead and everyone either catches up or is left behind.
The new players that make it don't have to waste as much time doing stuff that is sub-optimal and have the advantage of not having to deal with the bad habits that sub-optimal play might have left behind.
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EPT
