Raynor won't get an easier bracket than that, also I think there's a world where Probe stumble his way to a upper bracket qualification (something like Rail upset Reynor, then we get a Probe-True/ Probe-Parting)
All the auto-forfeits in the 3rd brackets (Classic, SortOf and Bomber) kind of hurts the "quality" of the top side especially, so I think Reynor takes it pretty easily (unless PartinG can put on some bigboy pants when the time is right?)
they needed to reseed the bracket since classics absence and not just fill his place with a no name. pretty unbalanced now. soo or gumiho should be there
On February 26 2019 18:06 midhigh wrote: Where is Classic? Why did he decide to stay at home?
didn't get approval to travel (Korean adult males who haven't fulfilled military service need to get prior approval of some sort before going overseas)
On February 26 2019 18:06 midhigh wrote: Where is Classic? Why did he decide to stay at home?
didn't get approval to travel (Korean adult males who haven't fulfilled military service need to get prior approval of some sort before going overseas)
Thanks for the explanation. It seemed so odd that he would cancel his trip on his own account. Do you know if it was a question of applying to late or would he have gotten a rejection no matter what?
wardi is much more bearable when he doesn't go on a random tangent for the first 5 minutes, doesn't argue with twitch chat 50% of the time, and doesn't ask people to subscribe the other 50% of the time
This nydus play from TRUE really is the starcraft equivalent of a hail mary. There is still skill in it, but it does also feel like the outcome is very random
On February 26 2019 19:31 Heartland wrote: I hope this nydus stuff ends soon
Creator has a decent chance if PartinG takes out Reynor. His PvP is actually not terrible. If he has to play Reynor, soO, or Gumiho I don't see him winning
On February 26 2019 19:48 Fango wrote: Creator has a decent chance if PartinG takes out Reynor. His PvP is actually not terrible. If he has to play Reynor, soO, or Gumiho I don't see him winning
Creator got crazy lucky with his bracket given that classic dropped out. He essentially has to win one best of three, and even if he loses he is still high up in the losers bracket.
The problem with having watched starcraft for 8 and a half years is that I feel really attached to 90% of pro players and I want all of them to advance.
So far looking like the balance of this tournament is zerg favored against protoss and protoss favored against terran. But we will see how this still stands up when we get to the round of 24.
On February 26 2019 20:48 Pandain wrote: So far looking like the balance of this tournament is zerg favored against protoss and protoss favored against terran. But we will see how this still stands up when we get to the round of 24.
On February 26 2019 20:48 Pandain wrote: So far looking like the balance of this tournament is zerg favored against protoss and protoss favored against terran. But we will see how this still stands up when we get to the round of 24.
Terran dominated the online qualifiers and here in the ro76 there aren't many. I expect(ed) at least one to get to the main event but actually aLive and Keen kind of overperformed compared to their recent standards; Gumiho losing to Hurrican is one hell of an upset, he's still in the loser bracket tho.
On February 26 2019 20:48 Pandain wrote: So far looking like the balance of this tournament is zerg favored against protoss and protoss favored against terran. But we will see how this still stands up when we get to the round of 24.
On February 26 2019 20:46 seemsgood wrote: gumiho lost to hurricane ??? come on...
Game 2 was horrible, it's really really hard to win a TvP.
this is not GSL, players don't have time to prepare with that much ppl in a group and that means we will see a clearly picture of the current stage of this game this kind of bracket is nothing but a group of pro players playing pub against each other
On February 26 2019 20:59 Xain0n wrote: Terran dominated the online qualifiers and here in the ro76 there aren't many. I expect(ed) at least one to get to the main event but actually aLive and Keen kind of overperformed compared to their recent standards; Gumiho losing to Hurrican is one hell of an upset, he's still in the loser bracket tho.
They players overperforming here are the three ro32 GSL Zergs.
On February 26 2019 20:48 Pandain wrote: So far looking like the balance of this tournament is zerg favored against protoss and protoss favored against terran. But we will see how this still stands up when we get to the round of 24.
On February 26 2019 20:46 seemsgood wrote: gumiho lost to hurricane ??? come on...
Game 2 was horrible, it's really really hard to win a TvP.
this is not GSL, players don't have time to prepare with that much ppl in a group and that means we will see a clearly picture of the current stage of this game this kind of bracket is nothing but a group of pro players playing pub against each other
That's too dismissive. Sure, you have more time to prepare for specific matchups in GSL, but arguably even more you are preparing for the player. I think a weekender, where literally everyone just goes in with their fundamentals, are a better source of balance discussion.
Also everyone is bringing their A game here. It's a 400,000 dollar prize pool that is very well spread out. This is not just playing pub.
Edit: For a note I'm not trying to balance whine. I'm just pointing out things that are very interesting. Maru, TY, and Innovation could take out absolutely any Protoss.
On February 26 2019 20:48 Pandain wrote: So far looking like the balance of this tournament is zerg favored against protoss and protoss favored against terran. But we will see how this still stands up when we get to the round of 24.
On February 26 2019 20:46 seemsgood wrote: gumiho lost to hurricane ??? come on...
Game 2 was horrible, it's really really hard to win a TvP.
this is not GSL, players don't have time to prepare with that much ppl in a group and that means we will see a clearly picture of the current stage of this game
It's bizarre how much better terran do in GSL than weekenders over the last year or so. The only weekender to have a terran in the final in the last 18 months was WeSG.
Although it could be that terran is just weaker/not doing well in general and Maru simply went HAM specifically for GSL.
On February 26 2019 20:48 Pandain wrote: So far looking like the balance of this tournament is zerg favored against protoss and protoss favored against terran. But we will see how this still stands up when we get to the round of 24.
On February 26 2019 20:48 DieuCure wrote:
On February 26 2019 20:46 seemsgood wrote: gumiho lost to hurricane ??? come on...
Game 2 was horrible, it's really really hard to win a TvP.
this is not GSL, players don't have time to prepare with that much ppl in a group and that means we will see a clearly picture of the current stage of this game this kind of bracket is nothing but a group of pro players playing pub against each other
I think a weekender, where literally everyone just goes in with their fundamentals, are a better source of balance discussion.
Not really, you can bring some new builds and win because of it ( not only, i know ), and then they become irrelevant, Rogue's nydus vs Protoss for example.
On February 26 2019 20:59 Xain0n wrote: Terran dominated the online qualifiers and here in the ro76 there aren't many. I expect(ed) at least one to get to the main event but actually aLive and Keen kind of overperformed compared to their recent standards; Gumiho losing to Hurrican is one hell of an upset, he's still in the loser bracket tho.
They players overperforming here are the three ro32 GSL Zergs.
I agree Leenock and Ragnarok overperformed and that Nydus seems a little too strong; on the other hand, you can't deny that aLive and Keen went 0-4 in their Code S groups so they did way better than expected, too.
soO looked overwhelming in the Lair phase during some of his recent matches, but his late-game struggles vs Kelazhur and MLord suggest this is the same old soO who will lose his will to live if he plays Maru or TY in a late game :[
On February 26 2019 20:48 Pandain wrote: So far looking like the balance of this tournament is zerg favored against protoss and protoss favored against terran. But we will see how this still stands up when we get to the round of 24.
On February 26 2019 20:48 DieuCure wrote:
On February 26 2019 20:46 seemsgood wrote: gumiho lost to hurricane ??? come on...
Game 2 was horrible, it's really really hard to win a TvP.
this is not GSL, players don't have time to prepare with that much ppl in a group and that means we will see a clearly picture of the current stage of this game this kind of bracket is nothing but a group of pro players playing pub against each other
I think a weekender, where literally everyone just goes in with their fundamentals, are a better source of balance discussion.
Not really, you can bring some new builds and win because of it ( not only, i know ), and then they become irrelevant
You can do the same in GSL. Probably to a greater extent as you only have to win on that day. A full weekender, especially with an open bracket, requires a variety of strats to be prepared.
On February 26 2019 21:10 Waxangel wrote: soO looked overwhelming in the Lair phase during some of his recent matches, but his late-game struggles vs Kelazhur and MLord suggest this is the same old soO who will lose his will to live if he plays Maru or TY in a late game :[
On February 26 2019 20:48 Pandain wrote: So far looking like the balance of this tournament is zerg favored against protoss and protoss favored against terran. But we will see how this still stands up when we get to the round of 24.
On February 26 2019 20:48 DieuCure wrote:
On February 26 2019 20:46 seemsgood wrote: gumiho lost to hurricane ??? come on...
Game 2 was horrible, it's really really hard to win a TvP.
this is not GSL, players don't have time to prepare with that much ppl in a group and that means we will see a clearly picture of the current stage of this game this kind of bracket is nothing but a group of pro players playing pub against each other
I think a weekender, where literally everyone just goes in with their fundamentals, are a better source of balance discussion.
Not really, you can bring some new builds and win because of it ( not only, i know ), and then they become irrelevant, Rogue's nydus vs Protoss for example.
That also counts for GSL. Like innovation when he played that best of seven against Dark and brought out two port banshee into mech.
And at a weekender you literally have everyone seeing what you are doing throughout the entire tournament. There's no secrets, it's very hard to surprise in the finals with a new strategy.
Anyway, the point I'm making is that the debate about what is the best source of "balance discussion" between GSL and weekenders is way murkier than some people believe.
On February 26 2019 20:59 Xain0n wrote: Terran dominated the online qualifiers and here in the ro76 there aren't many. I expect(ed) at least one to get to the main event but actually aLive and Keen kind of overperformed compared to their recent standards; Gumiho losing to Hurrican is one hell of an upset, he's still in the loser bracket tho.
They players overperforming here are the three ro32 GSL Zergs.
I agree Leenock and Ragnarok overperformed and that Nydus seems a little too strong; on the other hand, you can't deny that aLive and Keen went 0-4 in their Code S groups so they did way better than expected, too.
Keen won TvT only here, and aLive had a really tough group, 0-4 but against Rogue, and Zest.
On February 26 2019 21:10 Waxangel wrote: soO looked overwhelming in the Lair phase during some of his recent matches, but his late-game struggles vs Kelazhur and MLord suggest this is the same old soO who will lose his will to live if he plays Maru or TY in a late game :[
he has always been clueless about hive tech ZvT engagement and there is 0 indication that this will ever change :/
On February 26 2019 21:10 Waxangel wrote: soO looked overwhelming in the Lair phase during some of his recent matches, but his late-game struggles vs Kelazhur and MLord suggest this is the same old soO who will lose his will to live if he plays Maru or TY in a late game :[
I don't even remember the last time soO didn't fall apart in a late game. His match against Maru from GSL vs The World was pretty decent I guess (even if he did lose to a Maru playing a 70%).
On February 26 2019 21:10 Waxangel wrote: soO looked overwhelming in the Lair phase during some of his recent matches, but his late-game struggles vs Kelazhur and MLord suggest this is the same old soO who will lose his will to live if he plays Maru or TY in a late game :[
fingers crossed ragnarok makes a breakthrough because his late game was beastly yesterday, and he had some sick late games vs maru on the KR ladder (e.g. )
On February 26 2019 21:10 Waxangel wrote: soO looked overwhelming in the Lair phase during some of his recent matches, but his late-game struggles vs Kelazhur and MLord suggest this is the same old soO who will lose his will to live if he plays Maru or TY in a late game :[
he has always been clueless about hive tech ZvT engagement and there is 0 indication that this will ever change :/
I think his lategame in general sucks in all matchups. I still remember him basically freezing when the final match vs Rogue at Blizzcon reached the lategame.
On February 26 2019 21:10 Waxangel wrote: soO looked overwhelming in the Lair phase during some of his recent matches, but his late-game struggles vs Kelazhur and MLord suggest this is the same old soO who will lose his will to live if he plays Maru or TY in a late game :[
he has always been clueless about hive tech ZvT engagement and there is 0 indication that this will ever change :/
I think his lategame in general sucks in all matchups. I still remember him basically freezing when the final match vs Rogue at Blizzcon reached the lategame.
as far as I remember his ZvP was alright. But the contrast between his mastery at lair tech and his cluelessness at hive tech is impressive.
On February 26 2019 21:10 Waxangel wrote: soO looked overwhelming in the Lair phase during some of his recent matches, but his late-game struggles vs Kelazhur and MLord suggest this is the same old soO who will lose his will to live if he plays Maru or TY in a late game :[
he has always been clueless about hive tech ZvT engagement and there is 0 indication that this will ever change :/
I think his lategame in general sucks in all matchups. I still remember him basically freezing when the final match vs Rogue at Blizzcon reached the lategame.
as far as I remember his ZvP was alright. But the contrast between his mastery at lair tech and his cluelessness at hive tech is impressive.
tbh I don't really remember any real ZvP lategame from him. he always goes for timings
On February 26 2019 21:23 seemsgood wrote: parting vs MrLord game was miserable
Parting vs MLord is kind of like seeing the cool high school bad boys in their 30 working at minimum wage. (No offense to anyone working minimum wage I do too)
I love that they're trying to fill break time, but I think spectators would way love other things rather than post-analysis or game re-caps after every single game. Maybe try to do creative things like casual interviews with pros, or invite pros up to the table for a conversation, or show cool footage of Katowice outside.
On February 26 2019 21:59 Pandain wrote: I love that they're trying to fill break time, but I think spectators would way love other things rather than post-analysis or game re-caps after every single game. Maybe try to do creative things like casual interviews with pros, or invite pros up to the table for a conversation, or show cool footage of Katowice outside.
On February 26 2019 21:59 Pandain wrote: I love that they're trying to fill break time, but I think spectators would way love other things rather than post-analysis or game re-caps after every single game. Maybe try to do creative things like casual interviews with pros, or invite pros up to the table for a conversation, or show cool footage of Katowice outside.
What do you guys think?
Bringing in some more pros for casual interviews would be cool. But the post game analysis is great. Better than filler footage from katowice for sure.
On February 26 2019 22:15 Charoisaur wrote: those stalker immortal battles are horrible to watch with those skin. No idea why they want to force this garbage down our throat.
Well that's how they make money, like the only way they make money with SC esport
On February 26 2019 22:57 neutralrobot wrote: I'm a huge Reynor fan, but fuck it's nice seeing a win like that for Creator.
Was about to type something like this. Its hard to cheer against Creator, and he played really well so he deserved it. Now its the same thing but with GumihO 8(
Terran players are the laziest. They have Raven with very useful and impactful abilities and yet it is almost never used appropriately. Terran players depend too much on their fast hands to exploit brute strength of Terran units but they rarely everly use their heads to try to use units' skills properly. Raven can synergise very well with Mech. Dumb Terran!
On February 26 2019 23:38 TheSky123 wrote: Terran players are the laziest. They have Raven with very useful and impactful abilities and yet it is almost never used appropriately. Terran players depend too much on their fast hands to exploit brute strength of Terran units but they rarely everly use their heads to try to use units' skills properly. Raven can synergise very well with Mech. Dumb Terran!
On February 26 2019 23:50 Akio wrote: Is GuMiho really going to make this comeback?
I don't think he was ever far behind. There was that moment when reynor got in his nat, but at the same time gumiho was doing a lot of damage to reynor.
On February 26 2019 23:50 Akio wrote: Is GuMiho really going to make this comeback?
I don't think he was ever far behind. There was that moment when reynor got in his nat, but at the same time gumiho was doing a lot of damage to reynor.
That is true, he made the decision to counterattack which prolonged the clearing of his nat
I loved that Gumiho was basically down and out and then they focused the camera on him. Instead of looking like he was about to give up, he was seemingly talking to himself while moving the mouse around. Sick comeback from there. Loved it.
On February 26 2019 23:57 vult wrote: Mass cyclone is so difficult to watch. There is no way a Terran should lose them unless he just stops paying attention.
I mean yeah it can look frustrating to play against but I think there is a reason that no good Terran other than GuMiho does it
On February 26 2019 23:57 vult wrote: Mass cyclone is so difficult to watch. There is no way a Terran should lose them unless he just stops paying attention.
I mean yeah it can look frustrating to play against but I think there is a reason that no good Terran other than GuMiho does it
You see TY do it on stream a lot but I agree that GuMiho is probably the best with it. The comp really relies on the "critical mass" of cyclones, its efficiency jumps up massively after that
On February 26 2019 23:57 vult wrote: Mass cyclone is so difficult to watch. There is no way a Terran should lose them unless he just stops paying attention.
Well those flanks from Reynor worked very well
e: and if you can force the Cyclones into a corner
Feels like Reynor already gave up plans for a longer game before the game was over when the nydus all in failed, even though he was up in workers but down in army and tech.
On February 26 2019 23:57 vult wrote: Mass cyclone is so difficult to watch. There is no way a Terran should lose them unless he just stops paying attention.
but zerg players said classic mEch style is boring tho its hard to live a life as a terran apparently
On February 27 2019 00:17 argonautdice wrote: Feels like Reynor already gave up plans for a longer game before the game was over when the nydus all in failed, even though he was up in workers but down in army and tech.
He lost all his queens with the nydus all in, he was kind of screwed at that point - valiant effort to stay in the game though
Did Reynor do enough damage with that attack with the nydus that he could have retreated and instead of going up that rank and be ahead? On game 2 he also thought he was going to end it and abandoned defense. Well very good tense games that game 2 was beautiful. This IEM offline qualifiers is insane
On February 27 2019 00:17 argonautdice wrote: Feels like Reynor already gave up plans for a longer game before the game was over when the nydus all in failed, even though he was up in workers but down in army and tech.
We knew that, he didn't. He just saw how a pretty all-inish move failed, so I understand his "...fuck..." expression after losing all the queens. Sometimes we forget that the players don't have the observer bar like we do.
On February 27 2019 00:17 argonautdice wrote: Feels like Reynor already gave up plans for a longer game before the game was over when the nydus all in failed, even though he was up in workers but down in army and tech.
He was up in workers but was down in economy zerg needs more workers and bases then terran to be equal
On February 27 2019 00:14 sneakyfox wrote: Korea taking 8/9 spots so far
Currently koreans are 71-20 in matches and 34-6 in series. Foreigners might be getting better but (apart from Serral) koreans still seem to be on a different level.
On February 27 2019 00:19 DieuCure wrote: Rofl, Code S champion barely win a bo3 against Reynor, and zergs are complaining, nice.
2017 Code S Champion, he definitely isn't as strong as he was. With the appropriate amount of vipers cyclones get rekt, complaining is foolish. It seems that Nydus is handled better by the korean Zerg whose approach is generally more aggressive.
On February 27 2019 00:14 sneakyfox wrote: Korea taking 8/9 spots so far
Currently koreans are 71-20 in matches and 34-6 in series. Foreigners might be getting better but (apart from Serral) koreans still seem to be on a different level.
These qualifiers so far are exceedingly in korean favor making korean elitists predictions actually fair. Clearly not what we were observing last year.
On February 27 2019 00:14 sneakyfox wrote: Korea taking 8/9 spots so far
Currently koreans are 71-20 in matches and 34-6 in series. Foreigners might be getting better but (apart from Serral) koreans still seem to be on a different level.
I do feel that the koreans are putting on a great show, but posting korean winrates vs foreigners in the tournament is a bit disingenuous because there's only specific foreigners that anyone actually expects to be winning.
Most people watching, even the ones with a foreigner bias, likely expect that almost every participating korean has a good shot of getting through. Whereas I am sure these people would agree that maybe only 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4 foreigners actually has a shot at getting through.
On February 27 2019 00:34 travis wrote: I do feel that the koreans are putting on a great show, but posting korean winrates vs foreigners in the tournament is a bit disingenuous because there's only specific foreigners that anyone actually expects to be winning.
If that is to be be assumed surely the korean elitists are already kinda correct?
On February 27 2019 00:34 travis wrote: I do feel that the koreans are putting on a great show, but posting korean winrates vs foreigners in the tournament is a bit disingenuous because there's only specific foreigners that anyone actually expects to be winning.
Most people watching, even the ones with a foreigner bias, likely expect that almost every participating korean has a good shot of getting through. Whereas I am sure these people would agree that maybe only 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4 foreigners actually has a shot at getting through.
well it's been like 1 in 40... no matter how you look at it, thinking foreigners are doing well is just rose tinted glasses and reading the tea leaves. no facts agree with foreigner bias so far
On February 27 2019 00:34 travis wrote: I do feel that the koreans are putting on a great show, but posting korean winrates vs foreigners in the tournament is a bit disingenuous because there's only specific foreigners that anyone actually expects to be winning.
If that is to be be assumed surely the korean elitists are already kinda correct?
No? Korean elitists are the ones who believe that average koreans are expected to beat top foreigners every day, in every situation and are those who think Code S is impossibly harder and more prestigious than any tournament in the world.
In reality, only a handful of foreigners at the highest level can hope to prevail against the best players in Korea; that's a very remarkable improvement from the darkest days in HoTS when not a single foreigner could be listed in the top 20 players in the world.
Today it seems we are going many years backwards but an unbiased observer would be surprised to see Trust 2-0ing Lambo, for example.
On February 27 2019 01:05 argonautdice wrote: Did gumiho just hide his power level in the first series to lull Hurricane into a false sense of security?
On February 27 2019 00:34 travis wrote: I do feel that the koreans are putting on a great show, but posting korean winrates vs foreigners in the tournament is a bit disingenuous because there's only specific foreigners that anyone actually expects to be winning.
Most people watching, even the ones with a foreigner bias, likely expect that almost every participating korean has a good shot of getting through. Whereas I am sure these people would agree that maybe only 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4 foreigners actually has a shot at getting through.
well it's been like 1 in 40... no matter how you look at it, thinking foreigners are doing well is just rose tinted glasses and reading the tea leaves. no facts agree with foreigner bias so far
There is no foreigner bias, there only is korean bias. It's not like ShowTimE, Reynor, Elazer, Lambo were hyped for winning Go4Sc2, they had victories and placements against top tier koreans in the most prestigious tournaments. These qualifiers are going abnormally bad for foreigners considering we are in 2019 playing LoTV.
Interestingly, almost every qualified players (even the unfinished bracket 4) qualified by only having to beat one Korean except Dear who beat 3 Koreans (!), Ragnarok who had to beat two, and Creator who only played foreigners.
On February 27 2019 01:01 Xain0n wrote: In reality, only a handful of foreigners at the highest level can hope to prevail against the best players in Korea; that's a very remarkable improvement from the darkest days in HoTS when not a single foreigner could be listed in the top 20 players in the world.
And it's a phenomenal improvement from Brood War, where best foreigner in the world Idra could be expected to lose 1-2 to a b-teamer in the first round of the offline qualifiers.
If that's the norm you learned when you got into StarCraft, modern Korean elitism feels really silly.
On February 27 2019 01:01 Xain0n wrote: In reality, only a handful of foreigners at the highest level can hope to prevail against the best players in Korea; that's a very remarkable improvement from the darkest days in HoTS when not a single foreigner could be listed in the top 20 players in the world.
And it's a phenomenal improvement from Brood War, where best foreigner in the world Idra could be expected to lose 1-2 to a b-teamer in the first round of the offline qualifiers.
If that's the norm you learned when you got into StarCraft, modern Korean elitism feels really silly.
The point is Korean elitism in BW(especially, nodoby ever had a chanche to win after Grrr) and in HoTS were on point, results don't lie.
Instead, unlike what these qualifiers are showing, mindless foreigner bashing was very much out of place throughout LoTV; the average tone being "lulwut this Lambo nab will never reach Trust level" is kinda off if not outright irritating
We could for sure say "what is happening with foreigners?" or "is 2014 back again?".
Does anybody know the music track that is being used at IEM this year before/after games are played? I haven't heard the new music track that is being used before/after games are played. The music track I am referring to is this: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/386943807?t=00h26m11s
Is there a link to the original music file on Youtube or maybe an MP3?
On February 27 2019 02:06 La1 wrote: Koreans are dominating this event so far 1 non korean out of 11 spots so far!
It's that time of the year where Scarlett is a monster again? Hopefully she doesn't fail to qualify for BlizzCon because she has points spread out between GSL/WCS tho
On February 27 2019 02:06 La1 wrote: Koreans are dominating this event so far 1 non korean out of 11 spots so far!
It's that time of the year where Scarlett is a monster again? Hopefully she doesn't fail to qualify for BlizzCon because she has points spread out between GSL/WCS tho
On February 27 2019 02:06 La1 wrote: Koreans are dominating this event so far 1 non korean out of 11 spots so far!
It's that time of the year where Scarlett is a monster again? Hopefully she doesn't fail to qualify for BlizzCon because she has points spread out between GSL/WCS tho
On February 27 2019 02:06 La1 wrote: Koreans are dominating this event so far 1 non korean out of 11 spots so far!
It's that time of the year where Scarlett is a monster again? Hopefully she doesn't fail to qualify for BlizzCon because she has points spread out between GSL/WCS tho
On February 27 2019 02:06 La1 wrote: Koreans are dominating this event so far 1 non korean out of 11 spots so far!
It's that time of the year where Scarlett is a monster again? Hopefully she doesn't fail to qualify for BlizzCon because she has points spread out between GSL/WCS tho
Last year at this time she benefited a lot from dropperlords in ZVP, she needs to really step up her game to get similar results now.
So far only really disappointing result was ShowTime losing to aLive and dropping out. Reynor did go 1-2 against Koreans and I would say that the two matches that he lost were most entertaining matches of today so far. Thus, I would not be disappointed about him losing. Generally I think that there is only few foreign players that can be expected to better against Koreans. This does not mean that they are expected to win most of their matches against Koreans. This means that you have to check out their matches and consider MU, current form, balance, etc. Such foreign players for me are: Protoss: Neeb (not playing yet), ShowTime (0-1) Terran: Special (not playing yet), uThermal (not playing yet), HeRoMaRinE (1-2) Zerg: Serral (not playing yet), Scarlett (1-0), Reynor (1-2), Lambo ( currently 0-1), Elazer, (currently 0-1)
Lambo and Elazer hopefully win matches later in losers bracket, but their results seem bit disappointing so far.
On February 27 2019 02:45 herwo wrote: time to see if lambo does better than elazer against impact. it's his chance to show off the european zvz he's been lauding
Yeah Impact really smashed Elazer, wonder if Lambo will meet the same fate
On February 27 2019 02:45 herwo wrote: time to see if lambo does better than elazer against impact. it's his chance to show off the european zvz he's been lauding
On February 27 2019 02:06 La1 wrote: Koreans are dominating this event so far 1 non korean out of 11 spots so far!
It's that time of the year where Scarlett is a monster again? Hopefully she doesn't fail to qualify for BlizzCon because she has points spread out between GSL/WCS tho
I'll be honest, she has a good shot to win
yeah a shot in a million
Rofl, although it's true
I see you don't keep up with the latest Scarlett Fan club news, she almost got to the GSL round of 32-> Almost won GSL, she should be a favourite going foward
On February 27 2019 02:45 herwo wrote: time to see if lambo does better than elazer against impact. it's his chance to show off the european zvz he's been lauding
Wasn't aware it's August today, thank you. What were Impact's results in the following four months? Lambo was evidently in better shape at the end of 2018, not to mention EU ZvZ actually looked very fine in that patch.
On February 27 2019 03:12 Musicus wrote: Okay, I haven't played for a while. But what happened to Hydras? What is it with the roach/ravager into swarmhosts?
I think Hydra retired. Not sure about multiple Hydras.
Honestly Elazer- Trust and Lambo Impact much better matchup for the foreigners. Let's see what happens this time.
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
When did it happen?
2016 when Nerchio won WCS and thought he was hot shit (he was top foreigner at the time). He trolled Maru who wasn't that successful at the time, even though he admitted he had the best terran micro when he went to play in Korea
In a funny Nerchio banter way tho, nothing serious
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
Tbf, Maru defnitely was overrated in LR threads in 2016. Didn't manage to do anything outside of proleague that year.
But obviously he was much better than Nerchio still
WTF is wrong with ToD this tournament?.... he's constantly bashing the other casters, balance whining, lazy, etc. Looks like he doesn't want to be there, it's annoying to watch...
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
On February 27 2019 04:20 Elmonti wrote: WTF is wrong with ToD this tournament?.... he's constantly bashing the other casters, balance whining, lazy, etc. Looks like he doesn't want to be there, it's annoying to watch...
He's back to playing WC3 (idk since how long tho) and so he maybe found his old self if you're right. I can't comment since I'm watching TakeTV (imba downtime cat).
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
The inteview with Olli was definitely from 2016 and before Kespa Cup. He was never being serious, just trolling people on TL. He literally had "Nerchio - I am the best" in his signature just to trigger people.
I completely forgot that Maru took it so serious too. That shit got so overblown. But yeah that girlfriend joke was from 2017, mixed that up for sure.
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
The inteview with Olli was definitely from 2016 and before Kespa Cup. He was never being serious, just trolling people on TL. He literally had "Nerchio - I am the best" in his signature just to trigger people.
I completely forgot that Maru took it so serious too. That shit got so overblown. But yeah that girlfriend joke was from 2017, mixed that up for sure.
Why is he not trolling anymore now that he is b tier foreigner tho?
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
The inteview with Olli was definitely from 2016 and before Kespa Cup. He was never being serious, just trolling people on TL. He literally had "Nerchio - I am the best" in his signature just to trigger people.
I completely forgot that Maru took it so serious too. That shit got so overblown. But yeah that girlfriend joke was from 2017, mixed that up for sure.
Why is he not trolling anymore now that he is b tier foreigner tho?
He is pretty active here on TL, he might answer you if he reads this.
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
The inteview with Olli was definitely from 2016 and before Kespa Cup. He was never being serious, just trolling people on TL. He literally had "Nerchio - I am the best" in his signature just to trigger people.
I completely forgot that Maru took it so serious too. That shit got so overblown. But yeah that girlfriend joke was from 2017, mixed that up for sure.
Why is he not trolling anymore now that he is b tier foreigner tho?
Why did all the pros stop posting on TL? Nerchio was one of the few who kept engaging with the TL community, but I guess he got tired of getting shit on for everything he said, serious or not. But he still posts sometimes.
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
The inteview with Olli was definitely from 2016 and before Kespa Cup. He was never being serious, just trolling people on TL. He literally had "Nerchio - I am the best" in his signature just to trigger people.
I completely forgot that Maru took it so serious too. That shit got so overblown. But yeah that girlfriend joke was from 2017, mixed that up for sure.
Why is he not trolling anymore now that he is b tier foreigner tho?
I don't know why you'd be so insulting to a fellow teamliquid.net poster; I thought we had a code of civility
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
The inteview with Olli was definitely from 2016 and before Kespa Cup. He was never being serious, just trolling people on TL. He literally had "Nerchio - I am the best" in his signature just to trigger people.
I completely forgot that Maru took it so serious too. That shit got so overblown. But yeah that girlfriend joke was from 2017, mixed that up for sure.
Why is he not trolling anymore now that he is b tier foreigner tho?
You have to back it up with wins otherwise you get laughed at. In 2016 he was free to shit talk koreans because he almost never actually played them, and because he was actually a top player back then
On February 27 2019 04:28 Heartland wrote: It's really a fun stream... and why on earth does DeMuuslim have a shirt with an image of the Swedish king with a mask?
Ben moved to Sweden about a year ago and dates a very nice Swedish lady. Its all good mate.
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
The inteview with Olli was definitely from 2016 and before Kespa Cup. He was never being serious, just trolling people on TL. He literally had "Nerchio - I am the best" in his signature just to trigger people.
I completely forgot that Maru took it so serious too. That shit got so overblown. But yeah that girlfriend joke was from 2017, mixed that up for sure.
Why is he not trolling anymore now that he is b tier foreigner tho?
You have to back it up with wins otherwise you get laughed at. In 2016 he was free to shit talk koreans because he almost never actually played them, and because he was actually a top player back then
On February 27 2019 04:28 Heartland wrote: It's really a fun stream... and why on earth does DeMuuslim have a shirt with an image of the Swedish king with a mask?
Ben moved to Sweden about a year ago and dates a very nice Swedish lady. Its all good mate.
Ah, yes, I vaguuely remember that. It's a real hipster shirt
On February 27 2019 03:57 sneakyfox wrote: Good for Lambo that he won. The mockery could have reached Scarlett-esque levels had he not
Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
The inteview with Olli was definitely from 2016 and before Kespa Cup. He was never being serious, just trolling people on TL. He literally had "Nerchio - I am the best" in his signature just to trigger people.
I completely forgot that Maru took it so serious too. That shit got so overblown. But yeah that girlfriend joke was from 2017, mixed that up for sure.
Why is he not trolling anymore now that he is b tier foreigner tho?
You have to back it up with wins otherwise you get laughed at. In 2016 he was free to shit talk koreans because he almost never actually played them, and because he was actually a top player back then
bah you all love Dark for the same thing
Well Dark backs it up with wins usually, but even he got a fair share of laughs after losing to Serral :D
On February 27 2019 04:00 Fango wrote: [quote] Remember when Nerchio called Maru overrated
I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
The inteview with Olli was definitely from 2016 and before Kespa Cup. He was never being serious, just trolling people on TL. He literally had "Nerchio - I am the best" in his signature just to trigger people.
I completely forgot that Maru took it so serious too. That shit got so overblown. But yeah that girlfriend joke was from 2017, mixed that up for sure.
Why is he not trolling anymore now that he is b tier foreigner tho?
You have to back it up with wins otherwise you get laughed at. In 2016 he was free to shit talk koreans because he almost never actually played them, and because he was actually a top player back then
bah you all love Dark for the same thing
Well Dark backs it up with wins usually, but even he got a fair share of laughs after losing to Serral :D
On February 27 2019 04:01 Musicus wrote: [quote] I actually can't, link please
Was back in 2016 when Nerchio was trying to make out he was the best zerg in the world and better than koreans. He posted that Maru seemed overrated in LR threads, then iirc in the interview for his kespa cup group he said the same. Maru replied by taking him out of the tournament 2-1 with a bunch of manner mules at the end. He lost 0-3 and 0-3 again in their meetings since then.
I do remember that, but it's not as you said. He just said he was confident in beating Maru and made a joke about Maru probably having a girlfriend. In the following interview with Olli this happened:
Olli: I found one of your posts yesterday, saying it would be easy to beat Maru. Would it be?
Nerchio: Probably not, but it's more fun if you give some strong opinions from time to time.
Nerchio was just being entertaining, but everybody blew it out of proportions, misquoting him over and over and Korean fans actually went really crazy.
That was in 2017, in 2016 he openly said he thought Maru was overrated in both LR threads and live interview. Maru even said post game that he heard Nerchio called him overrated and wanted to beat him up for it
The inteview with Olli was definitely from 2016 and before Kespa Cup. He was never being serious, just trolling people on TL. He literally had "Nerchio - I am the best" in his signature just to trigger people.
I completely forgot that Maru took it so serious too. That shit got so overblown. But yeah that girlfriend joke was from 2017, mixed that up for sure.
Why is he not trolling anymore now that he is b tier foreigner tho?
You have to back it up with wins otherwise you get laughed at. In 2016 he was free to shit talk koreans because he almost never actually played them, and because he was actually a top player back then
bah you all love Dark for the same thing
Well Dark backs it up with wins usually, but even he got a fair share of laughs after losing to Serral :D
I want Serral to trash talk more now.
You mean at all
Although on a serious note that would be amazing for the scene. Dark is basically the only elite player that does it anymore
Let's hope Special practiced hard for TvP! Group D is very interesting and uncertain, Serral gets Gumiho who he never previously beat(if i remember correctly)
groups b and d start after a and c finish right? so main stream, wardii and zombie can cover all the games with 3 at the same time? or does the main stream gets less while setting up taking longer?
lol did blizzard rig the groups again so there aren't too many protoss advancing? also group D had weaker players than the ones that just qualified lol
On February 27 2019 05:00 ShAd_1337 wrote: scarlett has excellent chances to advance
"Excellent" is a bit too much, but yeah, I can see TY and Soo advancing, and then the third spot is gonna be hard: Bunny , uThermal, Scarlett and Dear are kind on the same level. Brutal groups.
On February 27 2019 05:03 Musicus wrote: No polish player left .
Even Impact, the most Polish player in Code S, didn't make it through. The Polish people have to choose a new representative out of the top 24. And that representative should be forced to go everywhere with a Polish flag.
On February 27 2019 05:00 ShAd_1337 wrote: scarlett has excellent chances to advance
"Excellent" is a bit too much, but yeah, I can see TY and Soo advancing, and then the third spot is gonna be hard: Bunny , uThermal, Scarlett and Dear are kind on the same level. Brutal groups.
On what world do you live rofl; these players are nowhere near of Bunny's lvl.
On February 27 2019 05:15 Solar424 wrote: Poor Special lmao. Dude hates Protoss so much and this is the group he gets.
Well, at least he must have been practicing nothing but TvP for a while and he can forget about the other matchups now.
I mean he wasn't in INno's position of knowing that he'd be in an all-Protoss group a month in advance. His group could have ended up balanced, so he couldn't go all-in on practicing TvP.
On February 27 2019 05:15 Solar424 wrote: Poor Special lmao. Dude hates Protoss so much and this is the group he gets.
Well, at least he must have been practicing nothing but TvP for a while and he can forget about the other matchups now.
I mean he wasn't in INno's position of knowing that he'd be in an all-Protoss group a month in advance. His group could have ended up balanced, so he couldn't go all-in on practicing TvP.
True and by the third player he probably will have used all his strats :/.
On February 27 2019 05:15 Solar424 wrote: Poor Special lmao. Dude hates Protoss so much and this is the group he gets.
Well, at least he must have been practicing nothing but TvP for a while and he can forget about the other matchups now.
I mean he wasn't in INno's position of knowing that he'd be in an all-Protoss group a month in advance. His group could have ended up balanced, so he couldn't go all-in on practicing TvP.
He could have got Leenock and Lambo but he got Stats and herO
On February 27 2019 05:37 Colouss wrote: Trap and Dear must be so happy to not end up in group A given their track record in PvP.
On the other hand Stats, Zest, herO, Patience, and Creator have all been insane in the matchup historically. Any of them could reasonably beat any other (except maybe herO as he's out of practice a bit).
Even Creator and Patience, while usually weaker in group stages, both probably have PvP as their best MU.
C is easily the Group of Death. Not even Serral will have an easy time getting through Rogue/Inno/Solar/Gumiho, and I wouldn't be surprised if his winstreak gets broken.
A is still less predictable though, B is pretty standard, and D obviously the easiest.
TY got the best deal in these groups and Major the worst. The 5 guys meme is making the rounds on reddit.
Group C is a bit above the others. But really every group has at most one player who couldn't make it into Code S Ro16. There is definitely no group that is easy to win.
On February 27 2019 06:11 pvsnp wrote: C is easily the Group of Death. Not even Serral will have an easy time getting through Rogue/Inno/Solar/Gumiho, and I wouldn't be surprised if his winstreak gets broken.
A is still less predictable though, B is pretty standard, and D obviously the easiest.
TY got the best deal in these groups and Major the worst. The 5 guys meme is making the rounds on reddit.
Group D was the easiest before soO, Dear and Scarlett were drawn into it, Maru&co have a smoother path imho; Group C is definitely hard but not the hardest it could be.
Serral's streak is every day closer to its end simply because it is already gigantic and has lasted an unholy amount of time.
Nice to see Serral facing some Korean Terrans. He had a total of one victory over a Korean Terran with a pulse in 2018 in a best of 3+ and that was the 4th best. If Inno and GuMi are on point and Solar or Rogue channel some of their previous ZvZ excellence, Serral could fail to get out of this group.
If Creator's PvP is good, I really hope he finds a way to make it out of this group. I'd love to see him somehow make top 4.
Best case scenario top 4: Creator, Maru, INnoVation, and Rogue.
On February 27 2019 07:34 Boggyb wrote: Nice to see Serral facing some Korean Terrans. He had a total of one victory over a Korean Terran with a pulse in 2018 in a best of 3+ and that was the 4th best. If Inno and GuMi are on point and Solar or Rogue channel some of their previous ZvZ excellence, Serral could fail to get out of this group.
If Creator's PvP is good, I really hope he finds a way to make it out of this group. I'd love to see him somehow make top 4.
Best case scenario top 4: Creator, Maru, INnoVation, and Rogue.
Serral faced two Korean Terran in offline Premier Tournaments during the whole 2018, one of which was the best player in the world, months before Serral himself could claim this title. You make it seem like he was struggling to defeat them while he didn't have the opportunity to play against them -.- HSC was technically a Major, yet Serral beat Bunny twice, TaeJa and Inno once more; how convenient not to say that, right?
Serral's shape should be very bad for him to drop out of the group after ten months of not losing a single offline series; Rogue never ceased to be strong in ZvZ, Serral was just better as clearly showcased by their extremely high level BlizzCon semifinal.
Best case scenario has more than a single foreigner advancing to the ro12.
On February 27 2019 07:34 Boggyb wrote: Nice to see Serral facing some Korean Terrans. He had a total of one victory over a Korean Terran with a pulse in 2018 in a best of 3+ and that was the 4th best. If Inno and GuMi are on point and Solar or Rogue channel some of their previous ZvZ excellence, Serral could fail to get out of this group.
If Creator's PvP is good, I really hope he finds a way to make it out of this group. I'd love to see him somehow make top 4.
Best case scenario top 4: Creator, Maru, INnoVation, and Rogue.
Serral faced two Korean Terran in offline Premier Tournaments during the whole 2018, one of which was the best player in the world, months before Serral himself could claim this title. You make it seem like he was struggling to defeat them while he didn't have the opportunity to play against them -.-
Serral didn't have an opportunity to play against them because he ducked out on trying to qualify for any of the GSLs and Maru got Protoss'ed in the Global Finals by the ultimate Protossing Protoss after basically single handily carrying TvP in 2018 by playing a super aggressive and cheesy style. (As compared to Zerg which was favored in both match ups, sometimes insanely [ZvP to start the year was WoL levels of broken])
On February 27 2019 07:34 Boggyb wrote: Nice to see Serral facing some Korean Terrans. He had a total of one victory over a Korean Terran with a pulse in 2018 in a best of 3+ and that was the 4th best. If Inno and GuMi are on point and Solar or Rogue channel some of their previous ZvZ excellence, Serral could fail to get out of this group.
If Creator's PvP is good, I really hope he finds a way to make it out of this group. I'd love to see him somehow make top 4.
Best case scenario top 4: Creator, Maru, INnoVation, and Rogue.
Serral faced two Korean Terran in offline Premier Tournaments during the whole 2018, one of which was the best player in the world, months before Serral himself could claim this title. You make it seem like he was struggling to defeat them while he didn't have the opportunity to play against them -.-
Serral didn't have an opportunity to play against them because he ducked out on trying to qualify for any of the GSLs and Maru got Protoss'ed in the Global Finals by the ultimate Protossing Protoss after basically single handily carrying TvP in 2018 by playing a super aggressive and cheesy style. (As compared to Zerg which was favored in both match ups, sometimes insanely [ZvP to start the year was WoL levels of broken])
With that logic Maru dodge HSC to defend his "best player in the world" pretention (which in the back half of 2018 was back "only" by a GSL win with 3 tournament lost 2 of them before the semi).
On February 27 2019 07:34 Boggyb wrote: Nice to see Serral facing some Korean Terrans. He had a total of one victory over a Korean Terran with a pulse in 2018 in a best of 3+ and that was the 4th best. If Inno and GuMi are on point and Solar or Rogue channel some of their previous ZvZ excellence, Serral could fail to get out of this group.
If Creator's PvP is good, I really hope he finds a way to make it out of this group. I'd love to see him somehow make top 4.
Best case scenario top 4: Creator, Maru, INnoVation, and Rogue.
Serral faced two Korean Terran in offline Premier Tournaments during the whole 2018, one of which was the best player in the world, months before Serral himself could claim this title. You make it seem like he was struggling to defeat them while he didn't have the opportunity to play against them -.-
Serral didn't have an opportunity to play against them because he ducked out on trying to qualify for any of the GSLs and Maru got Protoss'ed in the Global Finals by the ultimate Protossing Protoss after basically single handily carrying TvP in 2018 by playing a super aggressive and cheesy style. (As compared to Zerg which was favored in both match ups, sometimes insanely [ZvP to start the year was WoL levels of broken])
Enlightening, really. So are Zerg an inferior breed of korean super proplayers by failing to stop that coward Serral who was playing in his own region in the first real season of full time progaming, despite being so blatantly favored against T and P? Maru winning code S is easily explained by him being the ultimate savior of the Terran race in a sea of Zerg, but the evil evil Protosses somehow found a way to drag him down in the weekenders! How saddening...
I see no facts, overshadowed by a towering wall of bias.
On February 27 2019 07:34 Boggyb wrote: Nice to see Serral facing some Korean Terrans. He had a total of one victory over a Korean Terran with a pulse in 2018 in a best of 3+ and that was the 4th best. If Inno and GuMi are on point and Solar or Rogue channel some of their previous ZvZ excellence, Serral could fail to get out of this group.
If Creator's PvP is good, I really hope he finds a way to make it out of this group. I'd love to see him somehow make top 4.
Best case scenario top 4: Creator, Maru, INnoVation, and Rogue.
Serral faced two Korean Terran in offline Premier Tournaments during the whole 2018, one of which was the best player in the world, months before Serral himself could claim this title. You make it seem like he was struggling to defeat them while he didn't have the opportunity to play against them -.-
Serral didn't have an opportunity to play against them because he ducked out on trying to qualify for any of the GSLs and Maru got Protoss'ed in the Global Finals by the ultimate Protossing Protoss after basically single handily carrying TvP in 2018 by playing a super aggressive and cheesy style. (As compared to Zerg which was favored in both match ups, sometimes insanely [ZvP to start the year was WoL levels of broken])
yeah ZvP was so ridiculously imbalanced at some points last year, thank god I'm no a toss player
What is the map score between Maru and Serral now? Has Serral ever beaten TY or Gumiho? I don't remember them playing but they must have. I score GSL victories more highly than any other weekend style tournament but maybe times have changed.
On February 27 2019 12:04 J. Corsair wrote: What is the map score between Maru and Serral now? Has Serral ever beaten TY or Gumiho? I don't remember them playing but they must have. I score GSL victories more highly than any other weekend style tournament but maybe times have changed.
Maru-Serral are 3-3 in map and 2-1 for Serral in match, but Maru won the big one (WESG) 3-0 Serral-TY played against each other once.... in 2014 a 2-1 victory for TY at the time As for Gumiho he's 9-5 in map vs Serral and 3-1 in match all in 2017 including a couple of win at Blizzcon that eliminated Serral from the global final
All time Serral has a 43% winrate vs Korean terran both in map and match, and in 2018 he had a 66% map score and a 8 and 1 record vs Korean T, his only lost being of course the WESG one vs Maru.
So overall not a lot of info, he did also had a loss against Uthermal at the start of last year, rest is all win and two bo1 loss (vs UT and Kella, second one isn't really a lost, just count as bo1 because it was Nation War he won 2-1)
to be fair, reynor's losses were all throws at some point. he had a win in a bag but couldn't close the game. i hope he gets some more systematic practice to perfect his late game and closers because he's obviously capable to handle high level games..
also after reynor vs gumiho, i don't see why people would think gumi stands a chance vs serral.. everyone in group C is an underdog to Serral. upsets can happen of course. curious about rnk vs gumi
Every time people bring the argument "Serral duck out on participating in GSL" I seriously question their ability to think.
No, the person should not be forced to go live in a foreign, very distant country for months, without being surrounded by friends, family and comfortable environment, and exclude himself from earning a very good living, only because you on the forum want him to "prove himself". What is wrong with people. Paricipating in GSL is a choice, not an obligation.
On February 27 2019 20:26 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Every time people bring the argument "Serral duck out on participating in GSL" I seriously question their ability to think.
No, the person should not be forced to go live in a foreign, very distant country for months, without being surrounded by friends, family and comfortable environment, and exclude himself from earning a very good living, only because you on the forum want him to "prove himself". What is wrong with people. Paricipating in GSL is a choice, not an obligation.
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. He doesn't need to be of course if he just wants to earn money and have fun playing starcraft (which is perfectly fine) but that's just how it is.
On February 27 2019 20:26 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Every time people bring the argument "Serral duck out on participating in GSL" I seriously question their ability to think.
No, the person should not be forced to go live in a foreign, very distant country for months, without being surrounded by friends, family and comfortable environment, and exclude himself from earning a very good living, only because you on the forum want him to "prove himself". What is wrong with people. Paricipating in GSL is a choice, not an obligation.
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. He doesn't need to be of course if he just wants to earn money and have fun playing starcraft (which is perfectly fine) but that's just how it is.
Or he just has to win all the prestigious international tournaments where everybody shows up from all regions... such as GSL vs the World, or Blizzcon. The best player in the world does not necessarily play in the GSL. Perhaps we should require Maru to play in WCS Europe, because that's where the best player in the world plays...
IEM is obviously another excellent arena for players from different regions to clash, and we'll see how the favourites do.
On February 27 2019 12:04 J. Corsair wrote: What is the map score between Maru and Serral now? Has Serral ever beaten TY or Gumiho? I don't remember them playing but they must have. I score GSL victories more highly than any other weekend style tournament but maybe times have changed.
Maru-Serral are 3-3 in map and 2-1 for Serral in match, but Maru won the big one (WESG) 3-0 Serral-TY played against each other once.... in 2014 a 2-1 victory for TY at the time As for Gumiho he's 9-5 in map vs Serral and 3-1 in match all in 2017 including a couple of win at Blizzcon that eliminated Serral from the global final
All time Serral has a 43% winrate vs Korean terran both in map and match, and in 2018 he had a 66% map score and a 8 and 1 record vs Korean T, his only lost being of course the WESG one vs Maru.
So overall not a lot of info, he did also had a loss against Uthermal at the start of last year, rest is all win and two bo1 loss (vs UT and Kella, second one isn't really a lost, just count as bo1 because it was Nation War he won 2-1)
This post is brought you by Aligulac
Gumiho vs Serral was insane on abyssal reef, and Serral threw it iirc, I don't think he can win now, plus if he barely win against Reynor, there is no chance against Serral
It felt like Reynor was kinda caught of guard by Gumiho's unique builds and wasn't prepared. When you give Gumiho the chance to go full on cyclone he really excels.
Serral is the favorite vs everyone in his group besides Rogue maybe. Rogue is more of a 50:50 thing, depending on game length. Last year Serral's lategame was the best there is. Curious if he can keep it up this year
On February 27 2019 20:26 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Every time people bring the argument "Serral duck out on participating in GSL" I seriously question their ability to think.
No, the person should not be forced to go live in a foreign, very distant country for months, without being surrounded by friends, family and comfortable environment, and exclude himself from earning a very good living, only because you on the forum want him to "prove himself". What is wrong with people. Paricipating in GSL is a choice, not an obligation.
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. He doesn't need to be of course if he just wants to earn money and have fun playing starcraft (which is perfectly fine) but that's just how it is.
Or he just has to win all the prestigious international tournaments where everybody shows up from all regions... such as GSL vs the World, or Blizzcon. The best player in the world does not necessarily play in the GSL. Perhaps we should require Maru to play in WCS Europe, because that's where the best player in the world plays...
IEM is obviously another excellent arena for players from different regions to clash, and we'll see how the favourites do.
But Maru is banned to participate in WCS Europe...
And the problem for Serral is that there are too few International tournaments to participate to asses is strength over longer periods of time.
No one forces Serral to participate in GSL, but If you want to be considered the BEST you need to face the hardest competition possible regularly.
But I bet Serral doesnt care if we consider him the best or not, that's why he stays in Suomi
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
There are two challenges with this statement.
1. The logic is not proven. I.e. being the best in the hardest region does mean you are the best. Being the best elsewhere does not mean you are not the best. 2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable. And that's fine. Problem is when people label you a "chicken" or a "fraud" for "dodging hardest competition" and forcing you to do things that reduce the quality of your life and can potentially hurt mentally (we had these cases before).
On February 27 2019 20:26 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Every time people bring the argument "Serral duck out on participating in GSL" I seriously question their ability to think.
No, the person should not be forced to go live in a foreign, very distant country for months, without being surrounded by friends, family and comfortable environment, and exclude himself from earning a very good living, only because you on the forum want him to "prove himself". What is wrong with people. Paricipating in GSL is a choice, not an obligation.
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. He doesn't need to be of course if he just wants to earn money and have fun playing starcraft (which is perfectly fine) but that's just how it is.
Or he just has to win all the prestigious international tournaments where everybody shows up from all regions... such as GSL vs the World, or Blizzcon. The best player in the world does not necessarily play in the GSL. Perhaps we should require Maru to play in WCS Europe, because that's where the best player in the world plays...
IEM is obviously another excellent arena for players from different regions to clash, and we'll see how the favourites do.
But Maru is banned to participate in WCS Europe...
And the problem for Serral is that there are too few International tournaments to participate to asses is strength over longer periods of time.
No one forces Serral to participate in GSL, but If you want to be considered the BEST you need to face the hardest competition possible regularly.
But I bet Serral doesnt care if we consider him the best or not, that's why he stays in Suomi
Serral doesn't care because he actually IS the best, and he is considered as such even here on TL! Despite the incredibly vocal attitude of korean elitists, polls show the majority believes Serral to be the best, not to mention his official Player of the Year 2018 award which assures us even the staff is convinced of that.
Thus said, it would be amazing to see him play in Code S and this year could theorically be a good year; going in 2018 would have been a senseless decision. In any of case, Serral didn't seem interested in doing so after HSC and we can only hope he changes opinion; he is not, by any means, required to do it to please you guys.
On February 27 2019 20:26 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Every time people bring the argument "Serral duck out on participating in GSL" I seriously question their ability to think.
No, the person should not be forced to go live in a foreign, very distant country for months, without being surrounded by friends, family and comfortable environment, and exclude himself from earning a very good living, only because you on the forum want him to "prove himself". What is wrong with people. Paricipating in GSL is a choice, not an obligation.
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. He doesn't need to be of course if he just wants to earn money and have fun playing starcraft (which is perfectly fine) but that's just how it is.
Or he just has to win all the prestigious international tournaments where everybody shows up from all regions... such as GSL vs the World, or Blizzcon. The best player in the world does not necessarily play in the GSL. Perhaps we should require Maru to play in WCS Europe, because that's where the best player in the world plays...
IEM is obviously another excellent arena for players from different regions to clash, and we'll see how the favourites do.
But Maru is banned to participate in WCS Europe...
No he isn't. If Maru were to move to Europe, he could play in WCS Europe.
He's just banned from flying in 3 times a year for a weekender while living in Korea.
On February 27 2019 20:26 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Every time people bring the argument "Serral duck out on participating in GSL" I seriously question their ability to think.
No, the person should not be forced to go live in a foreign, very distant country for months, without being surrounded by friends, family and comfortable environment, and exclude himself from earning a very good living, only because you on the forum want him to "prove himself". What is wrong with people. Paricipating in GSL is a choice, not an obligation.
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. He doesn't need to be of course if he just wants to earn money and have fun playing starcraft (which is perfectly fine) but that's just how it is.
Or he just has to win all the prestigious international tournaments where everybody shows up from all regions.
When Serral does that, let me know. Last year he lost the two most prestigious international tournaments he played in - WESG and most importantly IEM. GSL vs The World is a vacation time for Koreans, Blizzcon isn't a challenging tournament compared to IEM or Super Tournament (let alone Code S), and homestory cup, while his one great win in my opinion, does not make him the best player in the world. Before Homestory Cup, his year was still worse than Classics (regardless of what biased commentators said).
And the fact that Serral fans think hes the best player in the world doesn't mean he is. It is not possible to rank Serral because he is good enough to do well at a couple weekenders, but he refuses to participate in the major leagues (GSL). If he wants to play in the minor leagues (WCS) and rack up wins and money, that's his decision, but saying he's the best player in the world isn't something an objective observer could say. Note that if Classic hadn't had to withdral from Group D, the only european in this IEM other than Serral would be someone who got in during the EU qualifiers (where Koreans cant really play, and he got in AFTER the two best NA players and other strong NA player didn't even show up and most likely would have qualified if she had). That says something about the region.
It's so sad how, when Artosis or one of the writers on this website say something (like that the people who say Serral isn't the best player in the world are Korean Elitists, or that the scene is divided between Serral fans and Korean Elitists), soon you have 90% of this forum parroting it like it's gospel. The amount of fanboying on this website for Sharp is another example of this - it's ridiculous how many more fans Sharp has than Last when the latters' play is so much more inspired and has worked just as hard (if not harder) than Sharp.
On February 27 2019 20:26 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Every time people bring the argument "Serral duck out on participating in GSL" I seriously question their ability to think.
No, the person should not be forced to go live in a foreign, very distant country for months, without being surrounded by friends, family and comfortable environment, and exclude himself from earning a very good living, only because you on the forum want him to "prove himself". What is wrong with people. Paricipating in GSL is a choice, not an obligation.
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. He doesn't need to be of course if he just wants to earn money and have fun playing starcraft (which is perfectly fine) but that's just how it is.
Or he just has to win all the prestigious international tournaments where everybody shows up from all regions.
When Serral does that, let me know. Last year he lost the two most prestigious international tournaments he played in - WESG and most importantly IEM. GSL vs The World is a vacation time for Koreans, Blizzcon isn't a challenging tournament compared to IEM or Super Tournament (let alone Code S), and homestory cup, while his one great win in my opinion, does not make him the best player in the world. Before Homestory Cup, his year was still worse than Classics (regardless of what biased commentators said).
And the fact that Serral fans think hes the best player in the world doesn't mean he is. It is not possible to rank Serral because he is good enough to do well at a couple weekenders, but he refuses to participate in the major leagues (GSL). If he wants to play in the minor leagues (WCS) and rack up wins and money, that's his decision, but saying he's the best player in the world isn't something an objective observer could say. Note that if Classic hadn't had to withdral from Group D, the only european in this IEM other than Serral would be someone who got in during the EU qualifiers (where Koreans cant really play, and he got in AFTER the two best NA players and other strong NA player didn't even show up and most likely would have qualified if she had). That says something about the region.
It's so sad how, when Artosis or one of the writers on this website say something (like that the people who say Serral isn't the best player in the world are Korean Elitists, or that the scene is divided between Serral fans and Korean Elitists), soon you have 90% of this forum parroting it like it's gospel. The amount of fanboying on this website for Sharp is another example of this - it's ridiculous how many more fans Sharp has than Last when the latters' play is so much more inspired and has worked just as hard (if not harder) than Sharp.
i'm impressed by how much effort you put into your baits, like proper punctuation and proper paragraphs and so on
On February 27 2019 20:26 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Every time people bring the argument "Serral duck out on participating in GSL" I seriously question their ability to think.
No, the person should not be forced to go live in a foreign, very distant country for months, without being surrounded by friends, family and comfortable environment, and exclude himself from earning a very good living, only because you on the forum want him to "prove himself". What is wrong with people. Paricipating in GSL is a choice, not an obligation.
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. He doesn't need to be of course if he just wants to earn money and have fun playing starcraft (which is perfectly fine) but that's just how it is.
Or he just has to win all the prestigious international tournaments where everybody shows up from all regions.
When Serral does that, let me know. Last year he lost the two most prestigious international tournaments he played in - WESG and most importantly IEM. GSL vs The World is a vacation time for Koreans, Blizzcon isn't a challenging tournament compared to IEM or Super Tournament (let alone Code S), and homestory cup, while his one great win in my opinion, does not make him the best player in the world. Before Homestory Cup, his year was still worse than Classics (regardless of what biased commentators said).
And the fact that Serral fans think hes the best player in the world doesn't mean he is. It is not possible to rank Serral because he is good enough to do well at a couple weekenders, but he refuses to participate in the major leagues (GSL). If he wants to play in the minor leagues (WCS) and rack up wins and money, that's his decision, but saying he's the best player in the world isn't something an objective observer could say. Note that if Classic hadn't had to withdral from Group D, the only european in this IEM other than Serral would be someone who got in during the EU qualifiers (where Koreans cant really play, and he got in AFTER the two best NA players and other strong NA player didn't even show up and most likely would have qualified if she had). That says something about the region.
It's so sad how, when Artosis or one of the writers on this website say something (like that the people who say Serral isn't the best player in the world are Korean Elitists, or that the scene is divided between Serral fans and Korean Elitists), soon you have 90% of this forum parroting it like it's gospel. The amount of fanboying on this website for Sharp is another example of this - it's ridiculous how many more fans Sharp has than Last when the latters' play is so much more inspired and has worked just as hard (if not harder) than Sharp.
You should stick to Brood War where the korean only scene allows you to judge more objectively. Sharp has won nothing but recently he is in a great shape and people love him whereas Last was clearly better in his post KeSpa career, judging by feats alone.
Coming to sc2, not only Serral's fan think he is the best; the majority is not usually right, but when datas, analists and the biggest number of fans all converge towards one conclusion you might be induced to think it's more likely the truth even if it doesn't mirror your opinion.
You could have frankly avoided to embarass yourself by saying that Classic's 2018 was better than Serral's since HSC to one unbiased observer; I won't comment on how you rate tournaments, i'll just ask you how can WESG be more important than BlizzCon given that the historical prestige, the money prize and even the korean density of the second are way higher. Ah, I can't help but remind you that Innovation would have surely 3-0d Serral at that vacation tournament named GSL vs The World.
I will never cease to repeat WESG and IEM took place before Serral's ascension to best player in the world, and even then he placed 3rd and 3rd/4th; this cannot be called a failure. His amazing consistence and unprecedent streak are added value to his 2018 victories and that's too easily disregarded by those who try to diminish his results. There isn't a single player in Starcraft's history who has been as unbeatable as Serral has been from April until now; everyone, as his peak, has dropped one series or lost one turnaments without doubters rushing to dethrone him early. Were Serral to lose this weekend he would likely still be the best in the world; as I previously said, one single tournament rarely is highly indicative while trends tell a deeper truth.
Concluding, it's true that foreigners, and europeans especially, underperformed at IEM's qualifiers in 2019. What does this have to do with Serral's 2018 results? Moreover, NA seems to be better than EU atm in its best players if we exclude Serral but EU depth is still higher.
On February 27 2019 20:26 fLyiNgDroNe wrote: Every time people bring the argument "Serral duck out on participating in GSL" I seriously question their ability to think.
No, the person should not be forced to go live in a foreign, very distant country for months, without being surrounded by friends, family and comfortable environment, and exclude himself from earning a very good living, only because you on the forum want him to "prove himself". What is wrong with people. Paricipating in GSL is a choice, not an obligation.
If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players. He doesn't need to be of course if he just wants to earn money and have fun playing starcraft (which is perfectly fine) but that's just how it is.
Or he just has to win all the prestigious international tournaments where everybody shows up from all regions.
When Serral does that, let me know. Last year he lost the two most prestigious international tournaments he played in - WESG and most importantly IEM. GSL vs The World is a vacation time for Koreans, Blizzcon isn't a challenging tournament compared to IEM or Super Tournament (let alone Code S), and homestory cup, while his one great win in my opinion, does not make him the best player in the world. Before Homestory Cup, his year was still worse than Classics (regardless of what biased commentators said).
And the fact that Serral fans think hes the best player in the world doesn't mean he is. It is not possible to rank Serral because he is good enough to do well at a couple weekenders, but he refuses to participate in the major leagues (GSL). If he wants to play in the minor leagues (WCS) and rack up wins and money, that's his decision, but saying he's the best player in the world isn't something an objective observer could say. Note that if Classic hadn't had to withdral from Group D, the only european in this IEM other than Serral would be someone who got in during the EU qualifiers (where Koreans cant really play, and he got in AFTER the two best NA players and other strong NA player didn't even show up and most likely would have qualified if she had). That says something about the region.
It's so sad how, when Artosis or one of the writers on this website say something (like that the people who say Serral isn't the best player in the world are Korean Elitists, or that the scene is divided between Serral fans and Korean Elitists), soon you have 90% of this forum parroting it like it's gospel. The amount of fanboying on this website for Sharp is another example of this - it's ridiculous how many more fans Sharp has than Last when the latters' play is so much more inspired and has worked just as hard (if not harder) than Sharp.
Back from your time-out already?
There is so much wrong in this post, I don't even know where to begin. So I just don't
On February 27 2019 12:04 J. Corsair wrote: What is the map score between Maru and Serral now? Has Serral ever beaten TY or Gumiho? I don't remember them playing but they must have. I score GSL victories more highly than any other weekend style tournament but maybe times have changed.
Serral hasn't beaten Gumiho, he lost 0-2 and 1-2 when they met at blizzcon 2017. He's never faced TY.
Offline he's 1-3 in maps against Maru. With Maru winning 3-0 at wesg, and Serral winning a bo1 showmatch at gsl vs the world.
IEM is the only real tournament, no region lock, only one invitation, Blizzcon/WCS are jokes, Rodya is right. Serral is one of the best tho, but you cant say that he is THE best since he didnt have to play against players like Maru and TY or others top world Terrans to win the WCS.
On February 27 2019 23:30 DieuCure wrote: IEM is the only real tournament, no region lock, only one invitation, Blizzcon/WCS are jokes, Rodya is right. Serral is one of the best tho, but you cant say that he is THE best since he didnt have to play against players like Maru and TY or others top world Terrans to win the WCS.
IEM are the final test
i liked rodya's bait more. while you make a concession to mask it, your statements are still very strong and not disguised by the amount of text rodya wrote. also i think the emoji usage is a little outdated. between this emoji and rodya's brood war paragraph, i favor rodya's approach.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
On February 27 2019 21:53 Xain0n wrote:
Serral doesn't care because he actually IS the best, and he is considered as such even here on TL! Despite the incredibly vocal attitude of korean elitists, polls show the majority believes Serral to be the best, not to mention his official Player of the Year 2018 award which assures us even the staff is convinced of that.
You mean the majority of the foreign community think he's the best. Not surprising that after 20 years of being overshadowed by koreans they jump on the opportunity to call the first foreign player who's on the level of top koreans the best player.
On February 27 2019 23:30 DieuCure wrote: IEM is the only real tournament, no region lock, only one invitation, Blizzcon/WCS are jokes, Rodya is right. Serral is one of the best tho, but you cant say that he is THE best since he didnt have to play against players like Maru and TY or others top world Terrans to win the WCS.
IEM are the final test
i liked rodya's bait more. while you make a concession to mask it, your statements are still very strong and not disguised by the amount of text rodya wrote. also i think the emoji usage is a little outdated. between this emoji and rodya's brood war paragraph, i favor rodya's approach.
There is not bait dude, if you consider region locked and invitationals tournament better than IEM then i cant help.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
This is perfect. I agree with a couple of your nominations and disagree with the others. Thats a definition of something being subjective. Until there is a defined term for the "best" - you really can't get away with such shit.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past
There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past
There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past.
I can't put into words how much I disagree with this. This is really just Artosis way to get people hyped about the current scene and I see very little arguments for why that should be the case.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
Serral doesn't care because he actually IS the best, and he is considered as such even here on TL! Despite the incredibly vocal attitude of korean elitists, polls show the majority believes Serral to be the best, not to mention his official Player of the Year 2018 award which assures us even the staff is convinced of that.
You mean the majority of the foreign community think he's the best. Not surprising that after 20 years of being overshadowed by koreans they jump on the opportunity to call the first foreign player who's on the level of top koreans the best player.
He was not at the level of, he was better than every korean he faced after April, and he was rightfully called the best players for his unprecedent streak and domination. The hype due to his nationality is real but so are his results.
I have no insight into Sc2's korean community so I can't confirm, but after BlizzCon someome posted their reactions on TL and they seemed to think Serral was the best; do you have confirmation that this is not the case?
On February 27 2019 23:57 DieuCure wrote: Top players i mean, how can you think that TY for example is weaker than in the past ?
They are about the same except they don't practice necessarily as much as in the past since there is far less competition. So they are probably a bit weaker.
On February 27 2019 23:57 DieuCure wrote: Top players i mean, how can you think that TY for example is weaker than in the past ?
They are about the same except they don't practice necessarily as much as in the past since there is far less competition. So they are probably a bit weaker.
And how would you judge this? LoTV is a more mechanically demanding game, I see very impressive games at the highest levels. You could only wonder what would have happened if KeSpa had switched to LoTV, we will never have the answer.
Sc2 always had the problem that the tournament scene is segregated and thus the top players won't all participate in each important tournament. In bw it was easy to say who the strongest players are simply because all the top players went for MSL, OSL and proleague, there really was noone else who would be considered. In sc2 we always had weekend tournaments where a bunch of top players were missing and even in gsl some players didn't show up who would strengthen it. Tbf though, in the case of gsl it was almost negligible, at least in direct comparison to the other way around. I don't think that changed too much, especially with a bunch of the best foreigners trying in gsl regularly, it is really just serral who doesn't ever. While none of the top koreans try in wcs for obvious reasons. That is why gsl is still seen as the highest lvl of competition. With that being said, serral won a bunch of high lvl tournaments, denying that is dumb at this point, if that meant his year was more impressive than maru's is another question and imo one can make a case for both povs here. (though serral simply ended the year strongly while maru did not, so serral's claim might be stronger on that front, maru just did too poorly at blizzcon)
Guys, FlaSh wasn't the objectively best player in brood war in 2017. It's all subjective because forum-guy has a different opinion. Actually the best player was BeSt :s
And sorry for saying WESG > Blizzcon, actually they are about the same. Ranking of tournaments is Code S > IEM > Super Tournament > Homestory Cup > Blizzcon/WESG > GSL vs The World > Invitational tournaments in China with Koreans > WCS events. Serral is definitely climbing the ladder, but he's far from the top currently.
On February 27 2019 23:57 DieuCure wrote: Top players i mean, how can you think that TY for example is weaker than in the past ?
I mean yeah maybe TY is better than he was in 2014 but there are so many top players that are no longer around and the scene has a fraction of the depth it used to have
isn't it kinda funny that serral fans argue in one thread that the WCS circuit events are top tier and perfectly good for measuring of Serral's skill even though Koreans don't participate, and in another thread point out how almost none of his competitors can make it through qualifiers against these Koreans and that region lock must stay?
On November 26 2018 21:12 ParksonVN wrote: It's a fact that no matter how many titles Serral gets from now on, he will never surpass MVP, Inno, Life, Zest or even sOs in the SC2 all time ranking. Why? Becoz the Korean scene, aka the main scene is dead, this era is by far not the highest skilled one because i don't see that in the games. When you are as talented and hard-working and live with as many advantages as Serral, it's not hard to continue the dominance compared to the top Korean. At least Serral can farm 4 ez-money WCS a year while the rest of the best players have to compete for just 3 GSLs and a super tournament. SC2 can get better i believe, but in "entertainment wise", not "skill wise" or "esport wise" when the main scene is that restricted (not all Blizzard's fault though).
I disagree. Yes, the level of GSL RO32 is not really strong anymore. I must admit, i tend to skip it most of the time. But the top of the scene remained more or less from the top of HotS (most GSL,Blizzcon and SSL winners from the end) with some new stars emerging like TY, Stats and Rogue. GSL RO16 is still very very strong.
We lost Life due to his matchfixing, and we lost Rain to Brood War, Taeja coming back. Other than that, who did we lose who was GSL/SSL/Blizzcon winning caliber in 2015?
If we take a look at the current GSL Ro16's it's mostly stacked with mutliple GSL/SS/Blizzcon winners.
you forgot that all these gsl/ssl/blizzcon winners are far past their prime and became older, less motivated etc etc. and serral is younger than everybody + maru.
Older for sure, FAR past their prime not that true, less motivated i doubt since money prizes have skyrocketed.
In BW the oldest player to ever win an OSL was Jangbi with 23 years. Usually players couldn't keep up anymore at an advanced age and got surpassed by the younger generation. The reason the current koreans are still competitive is because there's no new blood to surpass them. If you think players don't get worse at a higher age than you must think that it's just a coincidence that every single bw player older than 23 couldn't keep up anymore. You can even see it in the foreign scene with Nerchio, Snute and Mana suddenly being surpassed by Serral, Neeb, Elazer, Reynor and co despite being the top foreigners for years. Did they just get lazy? I don't think so. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the youngest player in the korean scene is now suddenly dominating the scene in his 8th year as a progamer.
TY is only 24 and was quite of a late bloomer so he specificially might be stronger than in like 2014 but the majority of the korean scene is way weaker now.
Age is one important factor but sometimes it happens that the last generation is simply stronger than the previous one and that's the case with the foreigner scene.
Circuit's level was high in 2018 as shown by Scarlett's Pyeongchang victory and deep code S runs by her, Neeb, Reynor and Special; Korea, of course, is still better. Katowice's 2019 qualifiers went bad for foreigners but this doesn't necessarily imply Circuit's level has gone down, just that many of its players aren't in their best shape at the moment.
even if serral won code S, people here would say he only won 1, while others won 3, so serral hasn't proved himself. if he won 3 x GSL, then his runs must've been easy. truth is, if you understand the game, you can tell who's better by watching them play without having to look up past results
On February 28 2019 02:13 herwo wrote: even if serral won code S, people here would say he only won 1, while others won 3, so serral hasn't proved himself. if he won 3 x GSL, then his runs must've been easy. truth is, if you understand the game, you can tell who's better by watching them play without having to look up past results
I agree a lot!
the problem with some people, especially korean biased ppl (for example rodya, whose post cant be taken seriously) is, that they seem to like to argue, but dont understand the game a lot. by watching the players play, u can judge a lot about their skill level - well only if u have deep understand of the game of course. beeing high master / grandmaster can help, but some ppl still prove that its no security for a valid judgement.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past
There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past.
Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue.
INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny,
On February 28 2019 02:13 herwo wrote: even if serral won code S, people here would say he only won 1, while others won 3, so serral hasn't proved himself. if he won 3 x GSL, then his runs must've been easy. truth is, if you understand the game, you can tell who's better by watching them play without having to look up past results
I agree a lot!
the problem with some people, especially korean biased ppl (for example rodya, whose post cant be taken seriously) is, that they seem to like to argue, but dont understand the game a lot. by watching the players play, u can judge a lot about their skill level - well only if u have deep understand of the game of course. beeing high master / grandmaster can help, but some ppl still prove that its no security for a valid judgement.
Yeah, its the minority opinion that comes from being a sub m1 player, not the majority opinion. Makes sense to me.
Anyway i dont like to argue, its just annoying to see people lie so much. Lets just watch the games this week and see the results.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past
There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past.
Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue.
INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny,
Byun, Byul and hero are retired players lol.
soO peaked a year and 4 months ago i guess, Classic last year, Dark is regular.
Even if they practice less harder ( for some players) than in 2014, how can you say that they are weaker since they have 5+ years of accumulation of knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past
There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past.
Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue.
INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny,
Byun, Byul and hero are retired players lol.
soO peaked a year and 4 months ago i guess, Classic last year, Dark is regular.
Even if they practice less harder ( for some players) than in 2014, how can you say that they are weaker since they have 5+ years of accumulation of knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice.
Same goes for the brood war scene.
The skill progression level is not linear, there is a such thing as atrophy and declining motivation. You can argue experience is though (which is especially important on the psychological front for offline events). The 5+ years of playing doesn't necessarily carry over through to different expansions and metas either. A prime example is ByuL who suffered big time when the meta didn't favor his trusty mutalisks which was one of the defining attributes of his play.
I agree on Dark still being at his usual level. herO isn't retired, he's currently in the group stages of IEM, unless he's Stephano "retired" and I didn't hear about it. As for soO, I mean yeah his 2017 was killer but I still think 2014 soO puts him away. soO has never had a game in LotV as impressive as this one imo:
Note the amount of workers he loses, his opponent is peak Flash (who just won an IEM) and who has some of the best macro in the business, and yet still...
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past
There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past.
Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue.
INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny,
Byun, Byul and hero are retired players lol.
soO peaked a year and 4 months ago i guess, Classic last year, Dark is regular.
Even if they practice less harder ( for some players) than in 2014, how can you say that they are weaker since they have 5+ years of accumulation of knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice.
Same goes for the brood war scene.
you don't continuously improve as you practice more. If that would be true young players would never be able to break into the scene because their opponents have 5+ years more of accumulated practice.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past
There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past.
Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue.
INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny,
Byun, Byul and hero are retired players lol.
soO peaked a year and 4 months ago i guess, Classic last year, Dark is regular.
Even if they practice less harder ( for some players) than in 2014, how can you say that they are weaker since they have 5+ years of accumulation of knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice.
Same goes for the brood war scene.
you don't continuously improve as you practice more. If that would be true young players would never be able to break into the scene because their opponents have 5+ years more of accumulated practice.
Well not necesserely if the whole scene gets better then the younger player will have better practice at the start and wont have to figure out everything the older one did, it's basicly the whole reason why some scene are better than other and why the scene improved. And it work in traditionnaly sports too you if you have to figure out how to do a decent slapshot on your own then you"ll have an harder time then the one comming after you and using what you did. Dosen't mean the older player can't be improving, just that the younger one should get to their skills level faster than they themself did.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past
There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past.
Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue.
INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny,
Byun, Byul and hero are retired players lol.
soO peaked a year and 4 months ago i guess, Classic last year, Dark is regular.
Even if they practice less harder ( for some players) than in 2014, how can you say that they are weaker since they have 5+ years of accumulation of knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice.
Same goes for the brood war scene.
you don't continuously improve as you practice more. If that would be true young players would never be able to break into the scene because their opponents have 5+ years more of accumulated practice.
Obviously, the notion of diminishing returns would be appropriate here.
On November 26 2018 21:12 ParksonVN wrote: It's a fact that no matter how many titles Serral gets from now on, he will never surpass MVP, Inno, Life, Zest or even sOs in the SC2 all time ranking. Why? Becoz the Korean scene, aka the main scene is dead, this era is by far not the highest skilled one because i don't see that in the games. When you are as talented and hard-working and live with as many advantages as Serral, it's not hard to continue the dominance compared to the top Korean. At least Serral can farm 4 ez-money WCS a year while the rest of the best players have to compete for just 3 GSLs and a super tournament. SC2 can get better i believe, but in "entertainment wise", not "skill wise" or "esport wise" when the main scene is that restricted (not all Blizzard's fault though).
I disagree. Yes, the level of GSL RO32 is not really strong anymore. I must admit, i tend to skip it most of the time. But the top of the scene remained more or less from the top of HotS (most GSL,Blizzcon and SSL winners from the end) with some new stars emerging like TY, Stats and Rogue. GSL RO16 is still very very strong.
We lost Life due to his matchfixing, and we lost Rain to Brood War, Taeja coming back. Other than that, who did we lose who was GSL/SSL/Blizzcon winning caliber in 2015?
If we take a look at the current GSL Ro16's it's mostly stacked with mutliple GSL/SS/Blizzcon winners.
you forgot that all these gsl/ssl/blizzcon winners are far past their prime and became older, less motivated etc etc. and serral is younger than everybody + maru.
Older for sure, FAR past their prime not that true, less motivated i doubt since money prizes have skyrocketed.
In BW the oldest player to ever win an OSL was Jangbi with 23 years. Usually players couldn't keep up anymore at an advanced age and got surpassed by the younger generation. The reason the current koreans are still competitive is because there's no new blood to surpass them. If you think players don't get worse at a higher age than you must think that it's just a coincidence that every single bw player older than 23 couldn't keep up anymore. You can even see it in the foreign scene with Nerchio, Snute and Mana suddenly being surpassed by Serral, Neeb, Elazer, Reynor and co despite being the top foreigners for years. Did they just get lazy? I don't think so. I also don't think it's a coincidence that the youngest player in the korean scene is now suddenly dominating the scene in his 8th year as a progamer.
TY is only 24 and was quite of a late bloomer so he specificially might be stronger than in like 2014 but the majority of the korean scene is way weaker now.
This is interesting. Why do you think that is? With the new blood I mean. Opportunity? I mean, money is still good. Region lock can't be it, BW Pro's didn't travel to foreign land. Why not just give it a shot? There are enough online cups to get yourself started, if Code S is too hard yet.
On February 27 2019 20:42 Charoisaur wrote: If you want to be considered the best then you need to play in the hardest region and compete vs the best players.
2. Being considered the best is subjective and and such will always be arguable.
not always. Flash was the best player in 2010, that's not subjective it's a fact. Or other examples Mvp in 2011, Zest in 2014, Life from Blizzcon 2014 to GSL season 1 2015, Inno for most of 2017 etc. If Serral doesn't play in GSL he will never reach that level where he's universally considered the best player.
not to mention the korean scene is a shadow of what it was in the past and the game is just less competitive than it has been in the past
There isnt the same depth for sure, but the players are better than in the past.
Out of all the elite players, the only ones who are playing at their career best right now are Serral, maybe Maru, and sometimes Stats/Rogue.
INno, ByuN, Zest, hero, Classic, soO, Solar, Dark, ByuL etc, just about every other elite or formally elite korean player is beyond their peak or retired. The only ones you can argue are playing at their career highs are lower level guys like Bunny,
Byun, Byul and hero are retired players lol.
soO peaked a year and 4 months ago i guess, Classic last year, Dark is regular.
Even if they practice less harder ( for some players) than in 2014, how can you say that they are weaker since they have 5+ years of accumulation of knowledge of the game, and a lot of practice.
Same goes for the brood war scene.
you don't continuously improve as you practice more. If that would be true young players would never be able to break into the scene because their opponents have 5+ years more of accumulated practice.
There is such a thing as bad practice where you just play to do the same thing over and over without actively trying to do it better or adjust your play to minimize your weaknesses but it is worth remembering that the scene as a whole improves as a group, one player gets ahead and everyone either catches up or is left behind. The new players that make it don't have to waste as much time doing stuff that is sub-optimal and have the advantage of not having to deal with the bad habits that sub-optimal play might have left behind.
EPT
IEM Season XIII - Katowice
Basior 
SpaceMarine 
TRUE 
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/134236f14244de7d804808281c8b6d83.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/rzF7Nf3.png)
