|
|
|
|
|
On April 06 2018 21:24 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2018 21:19 Sakkreth wrote:On April 06 2018 21:17 pvsnp wrote:On April 06 2018 21:14 Sakkreth wrote:On April 06 2018 21:09 pvsnp wrote:On April 06 2018 21:08 Sakkreth wrote:On April 06 2018 21:05 pvsnp wrote:On April 06 2018 21:03 Mun_Su wrote:
whatr does the new collosus? 2-shots marines now, just like the HotS colossus, except also Protoss gateway tech is stronger and Marauders are weaker. And deals less dmg to non light units. Stop being biased. Yeah, so marauders are better against Colossi......except for the part where marauders got nerfed and stalkers buffed. Like I said, the matchup isn't super imbalanced as long as Terran just allins. Fighting Colossi just doesn't work. It works, if you are not behind in macro or keep throwing units into a good defense. Stalkers still suck vs marauders, so do collosi. Sorry, gonna have to trust Maru over you on this. You saw the finals, I presume. There's a reason Maru, famous for his MARUders and Blink-era success against Protoss, used a bunch of mindgames and cheeses in the finals and avoided macro like the plague. Stats is too good in macro, bsesides Maru was never really a straightup macro player. He's the aggressor. ......or maybe Maru is just doing what it takes to win. There are plenty of games where Maru does this against Protoss, just go look at his Katowice games against sOs, Dear, etc. Show me the plenty of games where another top Terran macros to victory against Protoss (they don't exist).
Maybe because Stats is way above sOs and Dear in long macro games. So yeah Maru did what it takes to win, avoiding long macro games as Stats is a beast in such situations. Besides, Maru showed that there is plenty of cheesy, aggressive options for terran.
|
On April 06 2018 21:41 Ej_ wrote:
My favorite thing about this entire discussion is that whenever Protoss has ever proxied anything it's because the racenis fucking broken and the player is an abuser, but when Terrans do the same, it's because macro is unplayable.
That's because there's a basis behind that. Protoss are doing a lot of proxies while also being favoured I macro games.
Terran are doing a lot of cheeses/all-ins lately while also sucking in macro games, hence why it appears that they're forced into doing them. According to aligulac, every top terran in Korea got worse on TvP since 4.0, while all the toss got better.
Also I'm confused, are people suddenly trying to argue that protoss isn't favoured in the matchup? I didn't realise that was even up for debte right now. Both TvP and PvZ have had obvious issues since 4.0.
|
On April 07 2018 01:44 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2018 21:41 Ej_ wrote:
My favorite thing about this entire discussion is that whenever Protoss has ever proxied anything it's because the racenis fucking broken and the player is an abuser, but when Terrans do the same, it's because macro is unplayable. That's because there's a basis behind that. Protoss are doing a lot of proxies while also being favoured I macro games. Terran are doing a lot of cheeses/all-ins lately while also sucking in macro games, hence why it appears that they're forced into doing them. According to aligulac, every top terran in Korea got worse on TvP since 4.0, while all the toss got better. Also I'm confused, are people suddenly trying to argue that protoss isn't favoured in the matchup? I didn't realise that was even up for debte right now. Both TvP and PvZ have had obvious issues since 4.0.
No it's not. Protoss before that were weak in macro, therefore had to rely on cheese. See that's easy.
It's because Terran was heavily favored before 4.0, now it's about even 
|
That was a long discussion. Did folks expect the Stats vs Byun series to be close?
|
Just one week later, folks return to disrespecting Stats as usual by acting like him stomping a mid-tier terran is worth a balance discussion. I mean sure, PVT is at 48-49%. It's not that terran favored yet. Let's get that down to 45%.
|
On April 07 2018 01:47 Sakkreth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 01:44 Fango wrote:On April 06 2018 21:41 Ej_ wrote:
My favorite thing about this entire discussion is that whenever Protoss has ever proxied anything it's because the racenis fucking broken and the player is an abuser, but when Terrans do the same, it's because macro is unplayable. That's because there's a basis behind that. Protoss are doing a lot of proxies while also being favoured I macro games. Terran are doing a lot of cheeses/all-ins lately while also sucking in macro games, hence why it appears that they're forced into doing them. According to aligulac, every top terran in Korea got worse on TvP since 4.0, while all the toss got better. Also I'm confused, are people suddenly trying to argue that protoss isn't favoured in the matchup? I didn't realise that was even up for debte right now. Both TvP and PvZ have had obvious issues since 4.0. No it's not. Protoss before that were weak in macro, therefore had to rely on cheese. See that's easy. It's because Terran was heavily favored before 4.0, now it's about even
Complete nonsense. I can see that terran was slightly favoured before 4.0 maybe. But protoss never relied to cheese to win, you're just making that up. Even in times where protosses were cheesing almost every game (e.g. blink stalker), they were still good in the lategame.
Choosing to cheese/allin because the macro game is unfair/feels impossible to win, is very different from choosing to cheese/allin because it's simply better or another viable option. The key difference is cheesing simply when you want to, and cheesing when you're forced to.
Every top terran player is struggling in TvP right now, almost without exception. Meanwhile all the protosses have suddenly become gods in the matchup. You think every terran happened to slump while all the protosses just happened to improve? Even Maru, the #1 player in the world, who has improved hugely since 4.0, still has a shite winrate in TvP.
|
On April 07 2018 02:08 yangluphil wrote:
Just one week later, folks return to disrespecting Stats as usual by acting like him stomping a mid-tier terran is worth a balance discussion. I mean sure, PVT is at 48-49%. It's not that terran favored yet. Let's get that down to 45%.
No one is disrespecting Stats here. ByuN was trash in comparison to him. The match was just one-sided enough that it's not worth talking about and people ended up disucssing the meta/balance.
|
On April 07 2018 02:37 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 01:47 Sakkreth wrote:On April 07 2018 01:44 Fango wrote:On April 06 2018 21:41 Ej_ wrote:
My favorite thing about this entire discussion is that whenever Protoss has ever proxied anything it's because the racenis fucking broken and the player is an abuser, but when Terrans do the same, it's because macro is unplayable. That's because there's a basis behind that. Protoss are doing a lot of proxies while also being favoured I macro games. Terran are doing a lot of cheeses/all-ins lately while also sucking in macro games, hence why it appears that they're forced into doing them. According to aligulac, every top terran in Korea got worse on TvP since 4.0, while all the toss got better. Also I'm confused, are people suddenly trying to argue that protoss isn't favoured in the matchup? I didn't realise that was even up for debte right now. Both TvP and PvZ have had obvious issues since 4.0. No it's not. Protoss before that were weak in macro, therefore had to rely on cheese. See that's easy. It's because Terran was heavily favored before 4.0, now it's about even Complete nonsense. I can see that terran was slightly favoured before 4.0 maybe. But protoss never relied to cheese to win, you're just making that up. Even in times where protosses were cheesing almost every game (e.g. blink stalker), they were still good in the lategame. Choosing to cheese/allin because the macro game is unfair/feels impossible to win, is very different from choosing to cheese/allin because it's simply better or another viable option. The key difference is cheesing simply when you want to, and cheesing when you're forced to. Every top terran player is struggling in TvP right now, almost without exception. Meanwhile all the protosses have suddenly become gods in the matchup. You think every terran happened to slump while all the protosses just happened to improve? Even Maru, the #1 player in the world, who has improved hugely since 4.0, still has a shite winrate in TvP.
The only reason you might be "forced" to cheese in TvP vs Stats, is because Stats is a fucking monster in macro. No, they are not struggling, neither is Maru. He won vs sOs and then vs Stats to take GSL trophy.
For you to say the matchup is fine, is if Terrans play certain way vs Protoss - playing macro games only, has at least 55% winrate(as pre 4.0 that meant only slightly favored, but 53% for protoss now is a major problem) and winning championships, or maybe no, winning championships as terrans doesn't matter, they should win every one of it, because they naturally got more skillz
|
So much for winning this liquibet season -. -
|
United States97276 Posts
Stats vs Byun as expected
INno pulled off the upset? I'm surprised
|
On April 07 2018 04:01 Shellshock wrote:
Stats vs Byun as expected
INno pulled off the upset? I'm surprised
I only caught one game, but in that one at least, he was looking pretty good. Maybe he's on the rise again? Though I don't know that it's that much of an upset. Rogue had a suddenly great run at IEM, but he still hasn't been looking solid lately overall. It's hard to know what to expect from him.
Edit: Actually, I'm not even sure he had a "great run" so much as literally one great day. He's obviously still capable of greatness, and I still think he'll get himself together again, but I think he's shaky still ATM.
|
Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
Byun  (
|
On April 07 2018 05:15 Lorning wrote:Byun (
Dirty Terran shut down by GOAT
|
No idea why I liquibetted ByuN.
|
On April 07 2018 05:33 Charoisaur wrote:
No idea why I liquibetted ByuN.
you believed in a thing called cyclone?
|
On April 07 2018 03:30 Sakkreth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2018 02:37 Fango wrote:On April 07 2018 01:47 Sakkreth wrote:On April 07 2018 01:44 Fango wrote:On April 06 2018 21:41 Ej_ wrote:
My favorite thing about this entire discussion is that whenever Protoss has ever proxied anything it's because the racenis fucking broken and the player is an abuser, but when Terrans do the same, it's because macro is unplayable. That's because there's a basis behind that. Protoss are doing a lot of proxies while also being favoured I macro games. Terran are doing a lot of cheeses/all-ins lately while also sucking in macro games, hence why it appears that they're forced into doing them. According to aligulac, every top terran in Korea got worse on TvP since 4.0, while all the toss got better. Also I'm confused, are people suddenly trying to argue that protoss isn't favoured in the matchup? I didn't realise that was even up for debte right now. Both TvP and PvZ have had obvious issues since 4.0. No it's not. Protoss before that were weak in macro, therefore had to rely on cheese. See that's easy. It's because Terran was heavily favored before 4.0, now it's about even Complete nonsense. I can see that terran was slightly favoured before 4.0 maybe. But protoss never relied to cheese to win, you're just making that up. Even in times where protosses were cheesing almost every game (e.g. blink stalker), they were still good in the lategame. Choosing to cheese/allin because the macro game is unfair/feels impossible to win, is very different from choosing to cheese/allin because it's simply better or another viable option. The key difference is cheesing simply when you want to, and cheesing when you're forced to. Every top terran player is struggling in TvP right now, almost without exception. Meanwhile all the protosses have suddenly become gods in the matchup. You think every terran happened to slump while all the protosses just happened to improve? Even Maru, the #1 player in the world, who has improved hugely since 4.0, still has a shite winrate in TvP. The only reason you might be "forced" to cheese in TvP vs Stats, is because Stats is a fucking monster in macro. No, they are not struggling, neither is Maru. He won vs sOs and then vs Stats to take GSL trophy. For you to say the matchup is fine, is if Terrans play certain way vs Protoss - playing macro games only, has at least 55% winrate(as pre 4.0 that meant only slightly favored, but 53% for protoss now is a major problem) and winning championships, or maybe no, winning championships as terrans doesn't matter, they should win every one of it, because they naturally got more skillz
Every single game in Maru vs Stats was decided by early aggression though. Three base/four base TvP off an even footing is slanted pretty far in Protoss' favour right now.
|
juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
Was any of this recommended?
|
Whoever draws any kind of balance infos from Byun vs Stats has to be stupid. That was Byun in a terrible shape, fucking up the early game (game 1,2) and using terrible builds (game 2,3).
Same for the innovation vs rogue one.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
2014 Global StarCraft II League Season 1/Code S
