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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
 GSL Season 1Streams & CastersFormat
Map Pool Semi FinalsResultsCSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
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DarkGamer
Germany323 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Mike L
Germany162 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
 Dark 2-4  Maru | ||
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Haku
Germany550 Posts
Well SC schedules are really killing me currently... | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
In this series, I expect that Maru will now have some more practice against Dark's anti-raven tactics in particular. I also expect that Maru will figure out how to get into Dark's head again. I think Dark will have great prep and Maru will break his spirit anyway and take it in the end. It's just a question of how long Dark takes to crack. If Dark holds strong, it's anyone's series. Otherwise, Maru wins for sure. IMO, smart money overall is on Maru 4-3 Dark. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19237 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Dark 4-3 | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On March 23 2018 21:18 Ej_ wrote: Dark 4-2 with ravagers His favourite build doesn't work anymore with the drop nerf. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On March 24 2018 04:53 Charoisaur wrote: His favourite build doesn't work anymore with the drop nerf. He does it without drops too, dw | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
He's also done it with lair because of cloaked banshees before. | ||
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Toua
Denmark318 Posts
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rotta
5586 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
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buffzerg33
96 Posts
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 05:57 rotta wrote: How many Barracks will be proxied? Over/Under 5.5? | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Maru will be better prepared for Dark's SH and harass tactics, but he probably can't rely on proxies to win 2 games again. Dark on the other hand will be out for blood but probably more cautious, which might let Maru run away with some greed. At a guess, Maru relies more on bio than mech and loses if he cheeses. Dark will go for more aggressive early stuff. The series will probably be decided by the success of those Ravager/Ling timings against the 3rd CC that Dark loves so much. | ||
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romson87
Poland487 Posts
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
this is your GSL !!! YOUR NOT A KONG !!!!!! | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
I'm guessing .5 of a proxy rax is when you build it so it get scouted and then just go helion banshee withot building anything out of it? | ||
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Loccstana
United States833 Posts
Zerg: Then we will fight in the DARK. | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
Maru Hwaiting! 2 Hours 52 minutes! | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
With no Code A, GSL qualifiers no longer have direct monetary prize associated, whereas WCS qualifiers still have money prize. LATAM and CHINA qualifiers alone totaled $16.5K. | ||
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Togekiss
Canada154 Posts
On a serious note, I expect this to be a very close series like the one at WESG. As much as I want Maru to take it, he will need to have better preparation than he did last time vs Dark, because I'm afraid relying so heavily on his 2 rax play just won't cut it this time around. What will be key (in my mind) to Maru's success is as follows: 1: Not taking so much early game damage when Dark decides to get super-aggressive. 2: Being able to make it past 4 bases in the long, drawn-out macro games. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1106 Posts
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
Hmmm... How many barracks were proxied back when 5-rax reaper was a thing? | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On March 24 2018 10:08 KR_4EVR wrote: TBH I don't want to see another Dark v. Stats. Maru Hwaiting! 2 Hours 52 minutes! Good point. I also dislike watching the highest quality gameplay lotv can provide. | ||
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
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RogerChillingworth
2844 Posts
Dark may have downloaded Maru a bit but crossing my fingers Maru has concocted new potions. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 11:29 Cricketer12 wrote: Good point. I also dislike watching the highest quality gameplay lotv can provide. SC2 is way more entertaining when the quality of play is terrible. | ||
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 12:33 The_Templar wrote: SC2 is way more entertaining when the quality of play is terrible. It depends. The best games are when players are of a very close level (regardless of what level that is) and interact in a unique way. Although it's true that the real highest level games are usually one sided and end with timing attacks. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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sOvrn
United States678 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 12:36 Fango wrote: It depends. The best games are when players are of a very close level (regardless of what level that is) and interact in a unique way. Although it's true that the real highest level games are usually one sided and end with timing attacks. Most certainly. While Stats vs Dark would probably be decent gameplay-wise, I for one am heartily sick of PvZ finals after the past 5/6 finals. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
On March 24 2018 12:36 Fango wrote: It depends. The best games are when players are of a very close level (regardless of what level that is) and interact in a unique way. Although it's true that the real highest level games are usually one sided and end with timing attacks. I think maybe part of the entertainment formula is very high level players, but they're playing out relatably clowny scenarios that your average player has encountered in a ladder match. Like when two top players both do unscouted all-in cheeses in the same game. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:12 Moobutt wrote: Maru game 1 proxy odds?!!? Go! would have been crazy xD | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:13 Fango wrote: Odds on Maru proxying neon violet? Pretty good. I hope he proxies a stargate in the pocket base rather than a boring 2-rax proxy though. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:14 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Pretty good. I hope he proxies a stargate in the pocket base rather than a boring 2-rax proxy though. Might work. Dark would still be stunned from the race switch. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:16 Fango wrote: In wesg on this map, Maru played marine-tank and destroyed him. Was the most one-sided game of the final. Looked almost like a Maru vs foreigner game. How was the opening compared to this game? Dark seems to be in a pretty decent spot. | ||
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heartlxp
United States1258 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:17 The_Templar wrote: How was the opening compared to this game? Dark seems to be in a pretty decent spot. I can't remember exactly but it was a fairly standard opening. Dark didn't take much damage early on, he just got out macro'd/multitasked | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:17 pvsnp wrote: So looks like Game 1 is bio, wonder how much Maru will mech, if at all Mech is pretty map dependent for Maru, and due to GSL using an outdated map pool it's hard to tell. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:21 pvsnp wrote: Massing roaches against Tanks seems questionable but I assume Dark knows what he's doing Dark is much better with Roaches vs Terran than basically any one in the world at this point. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Hmm, not sure if that was good enough. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
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phodacbiet
United States1740 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:32 Solar424 wrote: You don't need workers when you have MULEs Dark had a huge worker advantage but I'm pretty sure that a lot of the time he was mining on 1-1.5 bases. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:32 Solar424 wrote: You don't need workers when you have MULEs Workers mean jack shit if you don't have hatcheries with minerals to mine | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
Poll: Game 1 ★★★★★ - Amazing Game (20) ★★★★ - Great Game (5) ★★★ - Decent Game (0) ★★ - Meh Game (0) ★ - Bad Game (0) 25 total votes Your vote: Game 1 (Vote): ★★★★★ - Amazing Game | ||
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heartlxp
United States1258 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:32 Solar424 wrote: You don't need workers when you have MULEs Dark was 3x the worker count but it didn't matter because he only had one base mining, they both had almost the same income at the end. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:13 Fango wrote: Odds on Maru proxying neon violet? On March 24 2018 13:35 Fango wrote: Pool first vs proxy rax is build order win for dark Dark knew | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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heartlxp
United States1258 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
He has to redeem himself after missing the completely obvious game 6 proxy at WESG. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
inb4 Maru proxies again | ||
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
Yeah especially after Maru picked up the win on map 1. I don't think there is any universe in which Maru doesn't proxy rax after taking 1-0 lead | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:38 Solar424 wrote: This is more a testament as to how stubborn Maru is, not his micro. To be fair, he had some sick hellion micro | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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woody60707
United States1863 Posts
So you would if you only had 4 units to control, and two of those units were SCVs. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:41 Morbidius wrote: Why did maru lower the depot and try to fight at the ramp? Was that the correct reaction to the incoming baneling bust? I don't think there was a 'correct' reaction--he was dead no matter what. | ||
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:41 Morbidius wrote: Why did maru lower the depot and try to fight at the ramp? Was that the correct reaction to the incoming baneling bust? Did Dark scout the banes with his second barracks? He could've just assumed incorrectly that Dark would transition to macro after blind countering the proxy. He may have though that killing those lings was the end of the rush? | ||
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yubo56
688 Posts
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CCa1ss1e
Canada3231 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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woody60707
United States1863 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:41 Morbidius wrote: Why did maru lower the depot and try to fight at the ramp? Was that the correct reaction to the incoming baneling bust? Well I'm sure Maru wish he didn't do that for 2 Marines, but mistakes happen. But looks at it this way. if he saved those two Marines, thats less zerglings for bangs, and well he was going to lose that game 99 of 100 times. maybe those two marines make it 98 out of 100. When you are looking at a for sure loss, why not take a huge chance. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:50 pvsnp wrote: I always forget that GSL is still using the old maps + Darkness Sanctuary. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
What's Darkness Sanctuary? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
That's what the players said | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
We'll know if we reach game 6. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
They gave Maru a 40 supply lead Oh and the now the game | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:59 Solar424 wrote: Nothing is more demoralizing than having a bunch of marines attacking your base, then trying to counter-attack and realizing that that was only half the Terran's army. Almost as depressing as realizing whiners will credit everything impressive from another race as the fault of balance | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:00 Fango wrote: When the terran gods are peaking (Maru, Inno, ByuN etc) they make banelings look irrelevent when i try that i just run my marines into banelings T_T | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:00 Fango wrote: When the terran gods are peaking (Maru, Inno, ByuN etc) they make banelings look irrelevent Banes were buffed to 35 hp since HotS while Marines are still the same, and yet sheer skill bridges that gap | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:01 pvsnp wrote: Banes were buffed to 35 hp since HotS while Marines are still the same, and yet sheer skill bridges that gap To be 100% fair, stronger Siege Tanks helps a lot too. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:02 Charoisaur wrote: Maru showing that 2/1/1 is still viable. Just micro like Maru Tbh 2-1-1 is probably the best all round TvZ build in LoTV. The only reason it went out of style is because zergs got used to holding it. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:02 Vindicare605 wrote: To be 100% fair, stronger Siege Tanks helps a lot too. They help kill banes in general, they don't help when it's just a ball of marines sniping banes. Which was what Maru did. He did target-fire banes with his tank too, but I was referring to the marines. And to be fair, the lack of ling screen from the mine connection helped too | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:02 Charoisaur wrote: Maru showing that 2/1/1 is still viable. Just micro like Maru He had a really favorable opening tbf | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:05 Nakajin wrote: Can't the reaper hug the gas to keep the drone to rebuild the extractor? You can block the construction of an extractor by moving a unit close to the geyser before the drone gets there, but iirc once there's an extractor building the unit is further away so you can quickly cancel and rebuild the extractor and the unit isn't close enough to block it. So it's essentially the opposite of BW. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Also, Abyssal is once again delivering on the lategame. Truly this map is the best ever | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:14 pvsnp wrote: Prepare the memes, here come the Ravens Please don't prepare the memes.  | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:15 pvsnp wrote: Bought his CCs at Costco lmao I prefer to get mine at Walmart. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
I guess so | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:17 pvsnp wrote: Is the answer to Ravens just ling/bane? I guess so Crazy how that works, huh. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:17 pvsnp wrote: Is the answer to Ravens just ling/bane? Tier 3 terran (ghosts, libs, ravens) probably loses to LBH in a straight fight | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:17 pvsnp wrote: Is the answer to Ravens just ling/bane? I guess so Nah, the answer is just asking for a nerf  | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:17 pvsnp wrote: Is the answer to Ravens just ling/bane? I guess so And attack before they have too much energy it seems. | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote: And attack before they have too much energy it seems. Dark also showed some amazing splits and micro vs ravens at WESG. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:16 Fango wrote: Is maru's turtle terran viable on this map? I feel like dark just takes the whole map There's probably no better map for this | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:18 ZigguratOfUr wrote: And attack before they have too much energy it seems. Actually I don't think it matters. Just suicide a full army of ling/bane in to drain the Raven energy, then remax and go in for round 2 while all the Ravens are empty. Ling/bane is super cheap compared to a full Tier 3 zerg army The key here is the economy, Dark had basically his whole half of the map | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
Yep, but he was too much behind. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:19 neutralrobot wrote: Dark also showed some amazing splits and micro vs ravens at WESG. What? Impossible. You can't split or micro vs Raven. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
Backwater. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
You say that but it was 8 base zerg to 4 base terran. Despite how cost effective ghosts and ravens supposedly are, if the zerg is ahead a few expansions they will still win. That's why usually in Maru's lategame he sends banshees and ghosts to take out hatcheries | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:21 Fango wrote: You say that but it was 8 base zerg to 4 base terran. Despite how costs effective ghosts and ravens supposedly are, if the zerg is ahead a few expansions they will still win. That's why usually in Maru's lategame he sends banshees and ghosts to take out hatcheries Yeah, it was the eco that killed him. Dark got too many bases and kept them mining unopposed. Mech with the banshee hit squad + hellion runbys is probably the better choice since you have a solid tank line to fall back to | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:17 pvsnp wrote: Is the answer to Ravens just ling/bane? I guess so It is the answer when you can afford remaxing at least twice | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:23 yangluphil wrote: It is the answer when you can afford remaxing at least twice Ling/bane is really cheap compared to an army full of tech units. If a lategame Zerg can't afford to max out on ling/bane twice they're in a really rough spot already | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:23 yangluphil wrote: It is the answer when you can afford remaxing at least twice Tbf being able to insta-remax a few times is common for Zerg in the late game. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:23 yangluphil wrote: It is the answer when you can afford remaxing at least twice Which is perfectly reasonable given that a terran turtling to mass raven isn't much of a threat until they actually get there. Zerg can just out-expand them. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:21 Fango wrote: You say that but it was 8 base zerg to 4 base terran. Despite how cost effective ghosts and ravens supposedly are, if the zerg is ahead a few expansions they will still win. That's why usually in Maru's lategame he sends banshees and ghosts to take out hatcheries His mistake was probably as Tastosis pointed out that he took the harder to defend bases first. No way Dark can attack like this when Maru sits on the "normal" first 5 bases | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:18 Fango wrote: Tier 3 terran (ghosts, libs, ravens) probably loses to LBH in a straight fight yeah, if by straight fight you mean a-moving each other with no spell casting allowed. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:25 Charoisaur wrote: His mistake was probably as Tastosis pointed out that he took the harder to defend bases first. No way Dark can attack like this when Maru sits on the "normal" first 5 bases It was definitely a factor but I think Dark just wins on round 3 or 4 instead. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:25 yangluphil wrote: yeah, if by straight fight you mean a-moving each other with no spell casting allowed. Doesn't matter if Zerg loses that fight, their army is worth way less. Just remax and attack again when all the Ravens are out of energy. The key is still economy. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:25 yangluphil wrote: yeah, if by straight fight you mean a-moving each other with no spell casting allowed. What spellcasting? Raven missiles don't do that much damage to ground units that aren't stacked. You can remake LBH faster that raven energy can come back, Snipe isn't really enough to do much either. It's good against expensive units like ultras and broods. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:27 pvsnp wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if Maru goes for mech into Ravens on this map. Ling/bane just evaporates if you have enough tanks. SH are always a concern, but outmaneuvering them is doable for Maru I think. I think Maru would welcome seeing swarmhosts. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:24 Fango wrote: Which is perfectly reasonable given that a terran turtling to mass raven isn't much of a threat until they actually get there. Zerg can just out-expand them. I agree in this particular game. Maru was at a big disadvantage from mid-game and opted for massing siege tanks to turtle on 4 bases, with no harassing units, trying to hang on. This gave Dark the chance to out expand the terran. Ravens only break the game when terrans and zerg are fighting on equal terms from mid-game. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:32 yangluphil wrote: I agree in this particular game. Maru was at a big disadvantage from mid-game and opted for massing siege tanks to turtle on 4 bases, with no harassing units, trying to hang on. This gave Dark the chance to out expand the terran. Ravens only break the game when terrans and zerg are fighting on equal terms from mid-game. Ravens can only break the game if you let Terran get a critical mass of them, which takes a shitload of gas and a very long time. Zerg expanding and repeatedly attacking a transitioning Terran can win, as demonstrated by Dark. Imagine Maru survived that fatal wave of ling/bane. How far behind do you think the next wave was? The wave after that? As long as Dark had an undisturbed economy (and Maru didn't) he would inevitably win. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:27 pvsnp wrote: Doesn't matter if Zerg loses that fight, their army is worth way less. Just remax and attack again when all the Ravens are out of energy. The key is still economy. I never said it necessarily matter. But the statement tier 3 terran units would lose in a straight fight vs LBH is a bit too much. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Guess not. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:39 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Fleet beacon already? Huh? | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Fusion core :/ I keep on mixing up my buildings. | ||
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DieuCure
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The_Templar
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On March 24 2018 14:40 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Fusion core :/ I keep on mixing up my buildings. Oh, I thought you had a running joke about Maru playing Protoss. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:39 Fango wrote: Will dark wait until Maru makes ravens then just attack and win? He should've, but he built brood lords instead | ||
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pvsnp
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:41 pvsnp wrote: Maru's in a much better position than last game, the question is whether it will matter in the end I'm guessing it won't. Dark is already ready to engage again. | ||
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pvsnp
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Fango
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On March 24 2018 14:43 pvsnp wrote: Dark is being ridiculously wasteful, which will kill him in the long run. But if he wins in the short run that hardly matters Doesn't matter when you have 3x the income. Dark has done this against Maru so much | ||
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:45 Fango wrote: Doesn't matter when you have 3x the income. Dark has done this against Maru so much Maru's doing a pretty good job staying in this tbh. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:47 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I'd like to see Dark expand to the bottom base on Maru's side of the map. If he doesn't, he'll eventually starve. Time is on Maru's side here. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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The_Templar
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:48 The_Templar wrote: How do the pro players always see the nuke? It's a tiny red dot.. They'll almost always target hatcheries, so that cuts down on the possibilities | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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The_Templar
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:48 The_Templar wrote: How do the pro players always see the nuke? It's a tiny red dot.. I think it's more the audio cue, then checking each base. There aren't a lot of places that a Terran will want to nuke. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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DieuCure
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:51 Inflicted wrote: Maru will just slowly die to mass lings Looks like it. Who knew the zergling countered the raven? | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
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Solar424
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yangluphil
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ZigguratOfUr
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On March 24 2018 14:51 The_Templar wrote: Looks like it. Who knew the zergling countered the raven? It's not really a news flash. I remember watching Darkforce win a game against Mvp with mass ling. | ||
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starkiller123
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starkiller123
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FrostedMiniWheats
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Can we just, like...kick Stats out of the finals and have these two rematch? No, somehow Stats is going to win this GSL. | ||
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DieuCure
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Solar424
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yht9657
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On March 24 2018 14:54 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Can we just, like...kick Stats out of the finals and have these two rematch? If someone deserves to be put in the finals that is soO. | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:54 Solar424 wrote: I get that casters are supposed to keep the hype going, but Dark has been dead for the last 5 minutes. Is he? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Solar424
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Maru has had double the army supply for a while, and Dark is out of bases to mine from. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:56 Solar424 wrote: Maru has had double the army supply for a while, and Dark is out of bases to mine from. Only as long as Maru keeps denying the fresh bases | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:56 Solar424 wrote: Maru has had double the army supply for a while, and Dark is out of bases to mine from. Only as long as Maru keeps denying the fresh bases. Again, eco is the key. Always. | ||
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yangluphil
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:57 Moobutt wrote: Dark might just have to pull workers for a final fight, right? Drones against 3-3 bio? Good luck. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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heartlxp
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Moobutt
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e: no maru cheese! | ||
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Fango
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neutralrobot
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Mnijykmirl
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Germany15958 Posts
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yangluphil
318 Posts
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DieuCure
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:59 chipmonklord17 wrote: Maru has never been in a code S finals right? He's just won OSL and SSL Neither has Dark, who's made 3 SSL finals. | ||
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TheSneak
Australia118 Posts
I'm exhausted and Im just watching and drinking iced coffee | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:00 Charoisaur wrote: In this game I saw Dark multiple times pulling the targeted unit away from the rest of his army despite TL experts telling me it's impossible. And then proceeding to take too much damage from the missile anyway. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On March 24 2018 14:59 chipmonklord17 wrote: Maru has never been in a code S finals right? He's just won OSL and SSL This is correct. He is on the verge of getting the Korean Starleague triple crown Dark has never been there either. Total opposite of the other semi | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:00 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Who the hell voted bad game? Expose yourself! It was me! jk | ||
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TentativePanda
United States800 Posts
Also of note, ghosts need an HP nerf. They tank like marauders and shoot like libertors lmao | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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Melix
United States89 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:00 Charoisaur wrote: In this game I saw Dark multiple times pulling the targeted unit away from the rest of his army despite TL experts telling me it's impossible. It helps when they're lings and even then he messed up half of the splits. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:02 ZigguratOfUr wrote: It helps when they're lings and even then he messed up half of the splits. He split both corruptors and hydras on multiple occasions | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:01 TentativePanda wrote: That game omg. Also of note, ghosts need an HP nerf. They tank like marauders and shoot like libertors lmao Rofl inevitably Terran wins late game -> Eh, nerf that, that and that | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:02 ZigguratOfUr wrote: It helps when they're lings and even then he messed up half of the splits. splitting is hard for zerg players, give him a break | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
He made creditable attempts at the very least. | ||
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Durnuu
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AUGcodon
Canada536 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:03 ZigguratOfUr wrote: He made creditable attempts at the very least. Also split corruptors | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:04 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: sOs is grinning somewhere Isn't he in the audience? Thought I saw him. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Those attempts were rather less creditable. I'm not sure if he actually limited the amount of damage more than a fifth of the time. | ||
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Well, in that case, he's grinning in the audience. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:00 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Who the hell voted bad game? Expose yourself! Someone raging about ravens. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
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pvsnp
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starkiller123
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SetGuitarsToKill
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pvsnp
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On March 24 2018 15:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Those attempts were rather less creditable. I'm not sure if he actually limited the amount of damage more than a fifth of the time. They were better than last time, which was better than nothing. Practice makes perfect; the more Terrans use AAM the better Zergs will get at splitting. Obviously there's a skill ceiling somewhere but right now they are light-years beneath that. | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:09 pvsnp wrote: They were better than last time, which was better than nothing. Practice makes perfect; the more Terrans use AAM the better Zergs will get at splitting. Obviously there's a skill ceiling somewhere but right now they are light-years beneath that. Do terrans also need more practice splitting against Parasitic Bomb? | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:10 yht9657 wrote: I don't see how Dark could win this unless Maru throws really hard. Maru's taking this slow, just gonna assemble his perfect army | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:11 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Do terrans also need more practice splitting against Parasitic Bomb? Honestly, yes. And I was arguing mech was better than bio at the new year when everyone was saying Vikings evaporate so it's not a new thing. Also there's the issue of 1 PB vs many AAM, but that's seperate. | ||
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DieuCure
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SetGuitarsToKill
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ZigguratOfUr
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On March 24 2018 15:13 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: wtf swarm hosts at this point? Ah yes the counter to large amounts of banshees. edit: And ghosts apparently. Ouch. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:13 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: wtf swarm hosts at this point? Dark loves making them when he's behind | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:13 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: wtf swarm hosts at this point? Surely a tip from Rogue | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
To be fair, good move from Maru for the hidden base this game. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
That Ghost firing squad tho | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Ghost gud unit | ||
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starkiller123
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:15 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Snipe is so fucking OP what the fuck Absolutely shocking that it beats undefended units that are sitting there exposed. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Didn't even matter tho | ||
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TheSneak
Australia118 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:17 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Absolutely shocking that it beats undefended units that are sitting there exposed. Madness! | ||
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Solar424
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ZigguratOfUr
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On March 24 2018 15:17 DieuCure wrote: Maru is trolling us He's trying to surpass his performance against Serral. | ||
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your Country52797 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:18 The_Templar wrote: I'm pretty sure Dark wins this game. yeah i just don't see how Maru wins, mine out map is the only thing that comes to mind but idk if that works | ||
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:18 The_Templar wrote: I'm pretty sure Dark wins this game. Raven/ghost is extremely cost efficient, I wouldn't bet on it. Dark also needs to catch up on air upgrades atm | ||
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Moobutt
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:19 Morbidius wrote: I wonder why people like these NR 20 maps. Cause amazing lategames | ||
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DieuCure
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:19 Morbidius wrote: I wonder why people like these NR 20 maps. Except Dark did ravager rush. And in these spawns the rush distance isn't actually that long. And no one actually likes this map. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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sashkata
Bulgaria3241 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:21 Morbidius wrote: I think Dark loses unless Maru has a heart attack or something right? Unless he breaks Maru It's possible but Maru definitely has an edge | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:18 The_Templar wrote: I'm pretty sure Dark wins this game. Going to quote this. | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
Feel free. I have been very wrong many times before. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:22 yht9657 wrote: This is like the last game all over again, Dark keeps trading units for economy and buildings and Maru just kills him with a perfect army. Dark was behind going into the late game this game whereas he was ahead in the previous one. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:22 yht9657 wrote: This is like the last game all over again, Dark keeps trading units for economy and buildings and Maru just kills him with a perfect army. Last game was a scrappy slugfest that was decided by denying bases. This game is completely different. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:21 sashkata wrote: I have to learn how to use ghosts. When I see them in game they seem ridiculous, when I use them, they don't do shit. lol they are so hard to use, my diamond skills cannot get anything worthwhile out of them lol | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Dark was behind going into the late game this game whereas he was ahead in the previous one. Dark was ahead in game 5 after losing his 4th base early on? | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:23 starkiller123 wrote: they are so hard to use, my diamond skills cannot get anything worthwhile out of them lol The ghost/cyclone opening that Special and a few other terrans used to do is fun and not too difficult. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:24 Durnuu wrote: Dark was ahead in game 5 after losing his 4th base early on? For a fair bit of the lategame Dark was ahead. Not in this game. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Dark was behind going into the late game this game whereas he was ahead in the previous one. Doesn't matter since the outcome is the same... | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:24 Durnuu wrote: Dark was ahead in game 5 after losing his 4th base early on? I'd have to rewatch, but I think so. He had pulled back to being slightly in the lead before he started morphing brood lords imo. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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your Country52797 Posts
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France3713 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
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Morbidius
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
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Moobutt
United States1996 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:26 The_Templar wrote: Every time a ghost dies I remember that first nukes + seuss funday monday. Every time I think of funday monday day9's laughter fills my head. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:26 The_Templar wrote: Every time a ghost dies I remember that first nukes + seuss funday monday. I think I remember that one. There's the bit where Day[9] refuses to acknowledge that Seuss rhymes with 'voice' and not 'deuce'. | ||
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
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Moobutt
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TentativePanda
United States800 Posts
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yangluphil
318 Posts
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Solar424
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Crazy | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:29 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I think I remember that one. There's the bit where Day[9] refuses to acknowledge that Seuss rhymes with 'voice' and not 'deuce'. Yeah, he kept pronouncing his name as "Zeus". :D | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
Poll: Game 6 ★★★★★ - Amazing Game (19) ★★★★ - Great Game (8) ★★★ - Decent Game (4) ★★ - Meh Game (0) ★ - Bad Game (2) 33 total votes Your vote: Game 6 (Vote): ★★★★★ - Amazing Game Poll: Game 7 ★★★★★ - Amazing Game (11) ★★★★ - Great Game (3) ★★★ - Decent Game (2) ★★ - Meh Game (1) ★ - Bad Game (3) 20 total votes Your vote: Game 7 (Vote): ★★★★★ - Amazing Game | ||
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DieuCure
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pvsnp
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yoshi245
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:32 DieuCure wrote: Oke so i call it now, nerf BC, Ravens, Ghost, Marines, Libe, nukes, medivacs, Maru, PF and Mules Are you crazy? You need to at least nerf SCVs in addition to those units. | ||
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heartlxp
United States1258 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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HyDrA_solic
Portugal491 Posts
So basically we have a spell that: - Deals little damage - AoE - Cuts down armor However!, it can be massed (like everything in SC2) and has absolutely no counter micro possible. Maru did play way better than Dark in these two last games, but I can't find any possible reason for this design to be in the game. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:32 The_Templar wrote: Are you crazy? You need to at least nerf SCVs in addition to those units. What the hell are you two talking about?! The bunker has to be adjusted | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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sOvrn
United States678 Posts
On March 24 2018 13:01 sOvrn wrote: Maru is taking this 4-2 watch it guys!! I called it! Grats to Maru! What a great series. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:34 sOvrn wrote: I called it! Grats to Maru! What a great series. Brofist | ||
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Hikki_Hibiki1
12 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:33 HyDrA_solic wrote: Can anyone tell me the reason behind seeker missile design? So basically we have a spell that: - Deals little damage - AoE - Cuts down armor However!, it can be massed (like everything in SC2) and has absolutely no counter micro possible. Maru did play way better than Dark in these two last games, but I can't find any possible reason for this design to be in the game. blizzard sucks at designing spellcasters that don't feel cheesy and dumb lategame. It's a shame because the idea of an armor shredding unit to help terran deal with things like ultras is pretty cool. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:34 sOvrn wrote: I called it! Grats to Maru! What a great series. Nice prediction. I ended up picking a ZvZ finals. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
What a guy. | ||
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Solar424
United States4001 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:32 The_Templar wrote: Are you crazy? You need to at least nerf SCVs in addition to those units. Nerf HP by 5 to bring it in line with the other races' workers. Seriously though, why do SCV's have 5 more HP than Drones and Probes? In BW they had 60, which makes no sense at all. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
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TentativePanda
United States800 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:35 Solar424 wrote: Nerf HP by 5 to bring it in line with the other races' workers. Seriously though, why do SCV's have 5 more HP than Drones and Probes? In BW they had 60, which makes no sense at all. I'm guessing that it's because probes and drones regenerate naturally. And it's probably been discussed to death at this point. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:35 Solar424 wrote: Nerf HP by 5 to bring it in line with the other races' workers. Seriously though, why do SCV's have 5 more HP than Drones and Probes? In BW they had 60, which makes no sense at all. Because they don't regen. health? Nerfing SCV health would make TvP way worse of a dumpster fire. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:35 yangluphil wrote: As much as I hate AAM. I think nerfing banshee's speed by a little bit, buffing viking HP without touching ravens can be a good adjustment. Lul the moment you get to see someone use them effectively. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
Mostly because of adepts | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:33 HyDrA_solic wrote: Can anyone tell me the reason behind seeker missile design? So basically we have a spell that: - Deals little damage - AoE - Cuts down armor However!, it can be massed (like everything in SC2) and has absolutely no counter micro possible. Maru did play way better than Dark in these two last games, but I can't find any possible reason for this design to be in the game. yeah like parasitic bomb vs air units!! wait I'm thinking of a word that starts with s and ends in plitting that is good against both, weird | ||
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Hikki_Hibiki1
12 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:35 TentativePanda wrote: Impossible task: Name a zerg unit that counters the ghost zerglings/banelings counter ghosts pretty well, but comparing one on one units to find counters is kinda pointless. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:35 TentativePanda wrote: Impossible task: Name a zerg unit that counters the ghost Impossible task: Get salty whiners to stop whining | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:36 Wildmoon wrote: Lul the moment you get to see someone use them effectively. I loved banshee's speed buff initially, which in itself is a good attempt to make units viable. What's wrong is the synergy between strong mid-game harass and unbeatable late game units that are AAM ravens and ghosts. | ||
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HyDrA_solic
Portugal491 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:36 starkiller123 wrote: yeah like parasitic bomb vs air units!! wait I'm thinking of a word that starts with s and ends in plitting that is good against both, weird You're kidding right? Have you seen Dark (the best Zerg in the world) trying to split vs that many seeker missiles? It's inhuman to do it effectivly. What I'm trying to say is: Seeker Missile has 0 counter play at the moment. That's the single reason that mass raven is being abused | ||
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Topin
Peru10077 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:37 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I can't believe this is Maru's first GSL finals we need more nerfs to Terran to kep seeing him in finals | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:37 pvsnp wrote: Impossible task: Get salty whiners to stop whining well of course, the best terran beating probably the best zerg in a close series must mean that terran is op | ||
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JabuSeika
United States607 Posts
Let's hope Maru makes it a final win. | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:38 yangluphil wrote: I loved banshee's speed buff initially, which in itself is a good attempt to make units viable. What's wrong is the synergy between strong mid-game harass and unbeatable late game units that are AAM ravens and ghosts. It's not unbeatable. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:38 HyDrA_solic wrote: You're kidding right? Have you seen Dark (the best Zerg in the world) trying to split vs that many seeker missiles? It's inhuman to do it effectivly. What I'm trying to say is: Seeker Missile has 0 counter play at the moment. That's the single reason that mass raven is being abused Yeah Terran is dominating the game. | ||
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TentativePanda
United States800 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:37 Hikki_Hibiki1 wrote: zerglings/banelings counter ghosts pretty well, but comparing one on one units to find counters is kinda pointless. LOL. Did you not see all the banelings getting kited this series (and when they do detonate ghosts are as tanky as marauders). Also, good luck surrounding unprotected ghosts with 50 lings for 30 seconds while the lings slowlyyy chew through their armor | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:38 HyDrA_solic wrote: You're kidding right? Have you seen Dark (the best Zerg in the world) trying to split vs that many seeker missiles? It's inhuman to do it effectivly. What I'm trying to say is: Seeker Missile has 0 counter play at the moment. That's the single reason that mass raven is being abused and I'm saying you are wrong, there is counter play, he literally smashed ravens on Abyssal Reef with ling bane hydra ultra viper but whatever its not worth debating with you | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:39 Ansibled wrote: Ghosts sniping things is actually the best sound in the game. https://clips.twitch.tv/MagnificentPrettiestAppleKAPOW Dunno about that. I think it would sound pretty nice if they played the overlord sound each time a ghost fired. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Stats trying to be sexy in his jacket. Maru just hamming it up | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:40 starkiller123 wrote: and I'm saying you are wrong, there is counter play, he literally smashed ravens on Abyssal Reef with ling bane hydra ultra viper but whatever its not worth debating with you No point in arguing with whiners drowning in salt. Give them time to vent and cool off at least. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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yangluphil
318 Posts
It's unbeatable, when one of the conditions is met: 1) Zerg's bank dropped below 1k 2) Terran gets a bank Both of which gives ravens and ghosts a buffer to get energy and room for error. And boy you need to make a lot of errors as a terran to lose after that stage. | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:38 JabuSeika wrote: Dark played pretty bad at times, throwing tons of expensive units away. Let's hope Maru makes it a final win. That last game did seem quite uninspired from Dark. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:40 pvsnp wrote: No point in arguing with whiners drowning in salt. Give them time to vent and cool off at least. yeah pretty much, I'm super looking forward to this finals, should be a sick one. I think i favor Maru in it but I'm a big fan of both players so whoever wins I'm happy | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:40 pvsnp wrote: Maru has gotten super good at the lategame, doubly impressive from a guy that struggled in the turtle-mech era of 2015 Yet he still made GSL ro4 during the turtle-mech era. Just like he did in the blink era. Terran can be the strongest or weakest race and he ends up the same. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:42 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: That last game did seem quite uninspired from Dark. Bad Roach lings timing is 100% Dark | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:42 Ansibled wrote: I like how Dark being the best zerg in the world is an argument being used when Maru is also the best Terran. Maru - "Rogue is better than Dark" | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:41 yangluphil wrote: It's unbeatable, when one of the conditions is met: 1) Zerg's bank dropped below 1k 2) Terran gets a bank Both of which gives ravens and hosts a buffer to get energy and room for error. And boy you need to make a lot of errors as a terran to lose after that stage. It's not. The line of argument that you need terran to make a lot of error to beat it does not work. Being able to make errors is what keep things balanced in the first place. The game is balanced around humans. If terran is not dominating the game then the game is balanced. You can argue about design problem all you want but the MU is not showing the sign of imbalance at this point with the available evidence. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:42 Ansibled wrote: I like how Dark being the best zerg in the world is an argument being used when Maru is also the best Terran. Maru specifically credited Rogue for preparing him so well, and added that Rogue > Dark | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:42 ToKoreaWithLove wrote: That last game did seem quite uninspired from Dark. Dark might have gotten a bit tilty when he saw the sneaky expansion. He already looked like all the blood had drained out of his face going into the game. That said, claiming that Dark played "pretty bad" at any point seems like quite a stretch. At worst, he played imperfectly under pressure. | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:44 pvsnp wrote: Maru specifically credited Rogue for preparing him so well, and added that Rogue > Dark Rogue helped to kick two fellow Zergs out of GSL finals, what a traitor. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
Also an argument can be made that on that particular map keeping the terran to 4 bases should be a priority. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:47 DieuCure wrote: Living with Cure must help strongly It must be great motivation. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:41 yangluphil wrote: It's unbeatable, when one of the conditions is met: 1) Zerg's bank dropped below 1k 2) Terran gets a bank Both of which gives ravens and ghosts a buffer to get energy and room for error. And boy you need to make a lot of errors as a terran to lose after that stage. So you're saying the player with the bigger bank wins? Isn't that how it's supposed to be? | ||
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CCa1ss1e
Canada3231 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
A cautionary tale | ||
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ToKoreaWithLove
Norway10161 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:46 neutralrobot wrote: Dark might have gotten a bit tilty when he saw the sneaky expansion. He already looked like all the blood had drained out of his face going into the game. That said, claiming that Dark played "pretty bad" at any point seems like quite a stretch. At worst, he played imperfectly under pressure. Ah, I did not mean Dark played badly, it is more that I'm used to be amazed by Dark and his ability to solve Starcraft composition and strategies. Much of the last game felt like him going through the motions a bit, more so than other games I've seen him play. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
"This is why we practice. To avoid this fate." | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
You guys think only Maru can do this. Wait for season 2. Maru specifically waited for all terrans to drop out from GSL, IEM before pulling this build for the first time. That's pretty smart and deserves credit. But "If ravens is so op why are terrans suffering?" does not hold ground because of it. Again, nothing against Terran and they should be buffed in other aspect. Only against the late game unit comp that became easier to transition into because of banshees, and stronger than ever before because of AAM. One of those things is probably ok to experiment with but not both. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37023 Posts
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:53 pvsnp wrote: "This is why we practice. To avoid this fate." Rofl, what can I say ? | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:53 yangluphil wrote: I agree with Maru. Rogue > Dark. Still, Rogue specifically said at IEM after beating Maru that ZvT late game is too hard for him to win at the moment. Look up his interview. You guys think only Maru can do this. Wait for season 2. Maru specifically waited for all terrans to drop out from GSL, IEM before pulling this build for the first time. That's pretty smart and deserves credit. But "If ravens is so op why are terrans suffering?" does not hold ground because of it. Again, nothing against Terran and they should be buffed in other aspect. Only against the late game unit comp that became easier to transition into because of banshees, and stronger than ever before because of AAM. One of those things is probably ok to experiment with but not both. Let's wait until the evidence comes in to back up the claim then? | ||
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engesser1
264 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:54 Seeker wrote: I am so saddened right now... My heart is absolutely crushed... soO loses to Stats, Dark loses to Maru twice... This is horrible... I am so fucking angry right now. You can ban yourself, try it it's helpful. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:48 Charoisaur wrote: So you're saying the player with the bigger bank wins? Isn't that how it's supposed to be? No, read again. I'm saying to contain Terran and starve them out of resources is extremely difficult in the sense that you need a massive bank AND terran cannot have any bank. Pretty much you need to almost already win the game going into the late game to deny those two conditions. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:58 Wildmoon wrote: Let's wait until the evidence comes in to back up the claim then? What evidence? To counter the argument that "If ravens is so op why are terrans suffering?", I only need this evidence: "Maru specifically waited for all terrans to drop out from GSL, IEM before pulling this build for the first time." which is a fact. What you quote there would be just icing on the cake. Leave it out and the argument still stands. But I'm happy to revisit it comes S2, so there's that. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:03 yangluphil wrote: What evidence? To counter the argument that "If ravens is so op why are terrans suffering?", I only need this evidence: "Maru specifically waited for all terrans to drop out from GSL, IEM before pulling this build for the first time." which is a fact. What you quote would be just icing on the case. But feel free quote me comes S2. The evidence is when the MU is dominated by terran in late game all across the board. That's the time to nerf it. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:03 yangluphil wrote: What evidence? To counter the argument that "If ravens is so op why are terrans suffering?", I only need this evidence: "Maru specifically waited for all terrans to drop out from GSL, IEM before pulling this build for the first time." which is a fact. What you quote there would be just icing on the cake. Leave it out and the argument still stands. But I'm happy to revisit it comes S2, so there's that. Except you have no way of knowing why Maru uses specific strategies at specific times. For all you know he didn't even come up with the strategy until all the other Terrans dropped out. Claiming Maru did something for a specific reason is bullshit unless you can read minds. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1106 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:35 TentativePanda wrote: Impossible task: Name a zerg unit that counters the ghost User was warned for this post neuraled ghosts | ||
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Wildmoon
Thailand4189 Posts
Show me the stats to back it up, because they don't exist. You misunderstand what I am saying. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:03 yangluphil wrote: What evidence? To counter the argument that "If ravens is so op why are terrans suffering?", I only need this evidence: "Maru specifically waited for all terrans to drop out from GSL, IEM before pulling this build for the first time." which is a fact. What you quote there would be just icing on the cake. Leave it out and the argument still stands. But I'm happy to revisit it comes S2, so there's that. Are you serious? Your fact is garbage--the raven was buffed on January 29th, and by the time Maru played his Ro16 GSL group all the other terrans were gone. Technically he could have come up with it in 24 hours after the patch hit and cunningly hid it when playing against Ragnarok in the Ro32, but that sounds on the face of it unlikely. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
You are correct, sorry about that. I apologize for the misunderstanding, we are saying the same thing. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:06 Wildmoon wrote: The evidence is when the MU is dominated by terran in late game all across the board. That's the time to nerf it. What ? Only Maru is dominating in late game after holding a roach ravagers lings push with 4 bases ( 1 hidden )/killing a 4th. And except TY none of the others Terrans can match Zerg in such a late game. On the other side, Blizzard assumed that win before ultras during a year. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:45 Fango wrote: Was worth styaing up till 7AM for anyway Really? I was looking for you, thinking u had to be put on suicide watch, now that instead oz ZvZ (as you said it surely gonna happen) the GSL finals is a PvT. What will you be crying about now? That the top 4 had only 1 terran, and that s statistical proof that it s still under-powered, since it should have had 1.33 terrans? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:11 DieuCure wrote: What ? Only Maru is dominating in late game after holding a roach ravagers lings push with 4 bases ( 1 hidden )/killing a 4th. And except TY none of the others Terrans can match Zerg in such a late game. On the other side, *Blizzard assumed* that *win before ultras* during a year. Lol you are making the same mistake I did. That's exactly what the dude is saying, the evidence doesn't exist yet and so nerfs are unjustified until it does. Open up the nested quotes and read them. He's not a Zerg whiner, he's arguing against them | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
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starkiller123
United States4030 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:13 Geo.Rion wrote: Really? I was looking for you, thinking u had to be put on suicide watch, now that instead oz ZvZ (as you said it surely gonna happen) the GSL finals is a PvT. What will you be crying about now? That the top 4 had only 1 terran, and that s statistical proof that it s still under-powered, since it should have had 1.33 terrans, he's probably happy to see good and entertaining starcraft games? not too hard to figure out | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:13 Geo.Rion wrote: Really? I was looking for you, thinking u had to be put on suicide watch, now that instead oz ZvZ (as you said it surely gonna happen) the GSL finals is a PvT. What will you be crying about now? That the top 4 had only 1 terran, and that s statistical proof that it s still under-powered, since it should have had 1.33 terrans, Got it, putting you on suicide watch now. Excessive salt consumption can have detrimental effects on your health. Seriously just cool down, raging on the forums doesn't change the fact that Maru won. It only makes you look petty. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Are you serious? Your fact is garbage--the raven was buffed on January 29th, and by the time Maru played his Ro16 GSL group all the other terrans were gone. Technically he could have come up with it in 24 hours after the patch hit and cunningly hid it when playing against Ragnarok in the Ro32, but that sounds on the face of it unlikely. Yes I'm serious. I'm confused what your point is. The meat of the argument is "If ravens is so op why are terrans suffering?" is garbage. And that fact no matter how garbage it is (Maru did wait in IEM) is true and so defeats the argument. You are saying Maru did not cunningly wait in GSL. ok I give you that, so what. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:13 Geo.Rion wrote: Really? I was looking for you, thinking u had to be put on suicide watch, now that instead oz ZvZ (as you said it surely gonna happen) the GSL finals is a PvT. What will you be crying about now? That the top 4 had only 1 terran, and that s statistical proof that it s still under-powered, since it should have had 1.33 terrans? Lmao calm down. I don't seem to be the one who's gonna cry right now | ||
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AUGcodon
Canada536 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:15 yangluphil wrote: Yes I'm serious. I'm confused what your point is. The meat of the argument is "If ravens is so op why are terrans suffering?" is garbage. And that fact no matter how garbage it is (Maru did wait in IEM) is true and so defeats the argument. You are saying Maru did not cunningly wait in GSL. ok I give you that, so what. By wait you mean literally breaking it out against the first Zerg he faced, solar? He didn't face any Zerg in the open bracket or group stages. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:15 pvsnp wrote: Got it, putting you on suicide watch now. Excessive salt consumption can have detrimental effects on your health. Seriously just cool down, raging on the forums doesn't change the fact that Maru won. It only makes you look petty. Great comeback mate, how did u come up with it? Also i will try to calm down my raging, aka the one comment i posted here calling out another user for very wrongly predicting ZvZ finals, and by extension the other forums members, apparently this includes you, who preemptively whined about the finals being ZvZ or ZvX, when the GSL was still in the Ro8 and Ro4. Couldnt watch the games as it were starting at dawn for me, i made literally 0 comments about Maru's play or the series here, so yeah, not sure what you re on about. | ||
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jarodtou
167 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:23 Geo.Rion wrote: Great comeback mate, how did u come up with it? Also i will try to calm down my raging, aka the one comment i posted here calling out another user for very wrongly predicting ZvZ finals, and by extension the other forums members, apparently this includes you, who preemptively whined about the finals being ZvZ or ZvX, when the GSL was still in the Ro8 and Ro4. Couldnt watch the games as it were starting at dawn for me, i made literally 0 comments about Maru's play or the series here, so yeah, not sure what you re on about. Apologies for confusing you with one of the salty whiners. Your post wasn't exactly the most civil. If you haven't watched them, I'd recommend actually watching the games instead of throwing shit at TL posters though. There were some masterful displays on both sides. And I said ZvZ finals are a shitshow, which is my own opinion. I never whined about these finals specifically being a ZvZ. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:27 pvsnp wrote: Apologies for confusing you with one of the salty whiners. Your post wasn't exactly the most civil. If you haven't watched them, I'd recommend actually watching the games instead of throwing shit at TL posters though. There were some masterful displays on both sides. And I said ZvZ finals are a shitshow, which is my own opinion. I never whined about these finals specifically being a ZvZ. I am sure there were, and i absolutely gonna watch the series as soon as the VODs are out. But yeah, I do think there should be at least this much repercussions for preemptive whining: being called out after the fact. By no means is Fango the only one, i just remembered his comment cuz it was particularly whiny, for reference: On March 14 2018 22:59 Fango wrote: Yes all the races have good players, so you'd expect all three to get decent results right? Which isn't the case. By any measure, zerg is overperforming and terran is underperforming. That's why one is getting nerfed and the other isn't. The last 7 premier tournaments have had either ZvZ or ZvP final. With zerg winning 5 of them (sure some people will ignore IEM pyeongchang due to the strange qualifying system). It'll be a miracle if this GSL isn't a ZvZ final for the first time since WoL. Even if you look at the few tournaments since 4.0: HSC XVI had one terran in the ro8, GSL Code S had one terran in the ro8, WCS Leipzig had one terran in the ro8, and IEM katowice had 2 terrans in the ro12. It's obvious which race is weaker. So praise the lord, it s a miracle | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
The game changes, sometimes Protoss is OP, other times Terran is OP, then Zerg is OP. In case some of you blockheads don't know: Every race is OP at some point, and then that same OP race can be complete trash at another point. Whining won't change anything, it'll waste your time in arguments that benefit no one and you might get banned trying to convince ppl shit that they will forever disagree with you with, so why go though all that effort, just to get banned? I swear you whiners are idiots. User was warned for this post | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:33 AzAlexZ wrote: Will you people stop whining? The game changes, sometimes Protoss is OP, other times Terran is OP, then Zerg is OP. in case some of you don't know this : Every race is OP at some point, and then that same OP race can ve complete trash at another point. Whining won't change anything, it'll waste your time in arguments that benefit no one and you might get banned trying to convince ppl shit that they will forever disagree with you with, so why go though all that effort, just to get banned? I swear you whiners are idiots. The tricky bit is that whining does in fact seem to change things due to the balance team being a bit too pliant. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:33 AzAlexZ wrote: Will you people stop whining? The game changes, sometimes Protoss is OP, other times Terran is OP, then Zerg is OP. In case some of you blockheads don't know: Every race is OP at some point, and then that same OP race can be complete trash at another point. Whining won't change anything, it'll waste your time in arguments that benefit no one and you might get banned trying to convince ppl shit that they will forever disagree with you with, so why go though all that effort, just to get banned? I swear you whiners are idiots. Whichever race wins will always be claimed as OP by the whiners. If Dark had won the Terran whiners would all be screaming how OP Zerg was, that Ravens were trash, etc, etc. Since he lost, we got this thread instead. Guaranteed that either "Protoss OP" or "Terran OP" gets repeated ad nauseam after the GSL finals happen. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33388 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:36 pvsnp wrote: Whichever race wins will always be claimed as OP by the whiners. Guaranteed that either Protoss OP or Terran OP gets repeated ad nauseam after the GSL finals happen. yes yes whatever but don't respond to the post that blanket insults people | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:36 Waxangel wrote: yes yes whatever but don't respond to the post that blanket insults people Rip, am I next on the ban list? T_T But seriously, should I requote his post to include the red warning text? | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
Your reasoning is bizarre. I complained it's been 7 premier tournaments without a terran in the final. Why would I become suicidal because there actually is? You don't think I'd be overwhelmed with joy? I don't think you understand how complaining works, or even human emotions in general lol. And yes it's a miracle. soO had literally the best ro4 success rate of all time, and Maru had literally the worst. It was the obvious choice. What happened this weak is a turning point in sc2 history. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote: The tricky bit is that whining does in fact seem to change things due to the balance team being a bit too pliant. It does, but considering the inevitable kneejerk whine from whichever race lost a high-profile match like this one, I think the balance team is smart enough to not just blindly accept this whine as gospel truth. It also helps that reddit (which they seem to pay an inordinate amount of attention to) tends to downvote such whine as a matter of course. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:37 pvsnp wrote: Rip, am I next on the ban list? T_T But seriously, should I requote his post to include the red warning text? Quoting stuff that gets warned/banned isn't usually an offense (the main exceptions being rainbow sheep, and Finnish gifs). On March 24 2018 16:45 pvsnp wrote: It does, but considering the inevitable kneejerk whine from whichever race lost a high-profile match like this one, I think the balance team is smart enough to not just blindly accept this whine as gospel truth. It also helps that reddit (which they seem to pay an inordinate amount of attention to) tends to downvote such whine as a matter of course. Ehh...my faith in the balance team is pretty low. They seem to listen to the loudest voices in the community much more than what the different voices are saying. For example they haven't said a single word about PvT late-midgame/early-lategame over the past two months, since it has been overshadowed in community discussions by other stuff like ravens and ling drops. And to my mind that's a much more pressing issue than changing or not changing the raven. The devs shouldn't need the community to prod them to consider problems. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:38 Fango wrote: Your reasoning is bizarre. I complained it's been 7 premier tournaments without a terran in the final. Why would I become suicidal because there actually is? You don't think I'd be overwhelmed with joy? I don't think you understand how complaining works, or even human emotions in general lol. And yes it's a miracle. soO had literally the best ro4 success rate of all time, and Maru had literally the worst. It was the obvious choice. What happened this weak is a turning point in sc2 history. No, for some perverse reason, you and others Terran watch these tournaments and hope the Terran loses. You re going in saying Terran gonna lose. If they do lose you cry a fucking river, and cook up convoluted stats (Well, if you look at the ro6 of these tournaments i randomly selected and ignored every other criteria, notice the stats support me) or flat-out false statements. And if the terrans win you guys try to dissect the other guy`s mistakes, arguing it s nothing to do with balance, on the contrary the Terran, in this case Maru, overcame the very real imbalance that still exists, and his win still proof that Terran is underpowered, since he could only win with 2 rax, or could only win cuz Dark misclicked or some other shit. And you immediately try to discredit the opponent that literally hours ago you claimed gonna crush the series(Oh, Dark is so much worse then Rogue, Rogue could have won easily) Im a zerg, i like zergs, i cheer on zergs. I hoped Dark would make it to the finals, he didnt, tough luck, gonna watch a PvT finals, the world wont end. Balance whine I get, it s been around since forever. But at least a while back users waited until the tourney was over, before using the results to support their balance whine. But no, lately you (plural) have to cry in advance, about how it s gonna be ZVZ all over again, like every GSL finals since 2015, am i right? | ||
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
On March 24 2018 16:32 Waxangel wrote: Hey guys, let's not make TOO large generalizations about balance based off a series between two of the best players in the world (unless, I mean, you want Blizzard to specifically balance SC2 for series between top 3 players of each race. In that case... uhhh, ionno, that's an interesting opinion, and maybe I actually agree to some small degree!) Uhhh, that would be like chasing your shadow. The players will vary in skill from day to day and balance tweaks could even cause the top 3 to change. | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
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buffzerg33
96 Posts
Maru is playing games of his life!!! Cant get much better then that! Insaine. | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On March 24 2018 17:22 Mun_Su wrote: INnoVation didn't make it through the ro8 while Maru did it. Thus, Terran must be weak. Quod erat demonstrandum | ||
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Poopi
France12875 Posts
Maru saves terran once again .TvP finals is gonna be super hard tho | ||
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buffzerg33
96 Posts
2. Rogue Lee, Byung Ryul $546,907.84 3. sOs Kim, Yoo Jin $528,839.27 I mean....JinAir Greenwings WTF!!! These dudes took everything!!! | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/MN0amKY.png) Jin Air Greenwings is the new US Postal | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
.I wish him good luck in the finals vs the Protoss player Stats and in all next iterations of the game! | ||
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Mun_Su
France2063 Posts
On March 24 2018 17:30 buffzerg33 wrote: 1. Maru Cho, Sung Choo $552,784.10 2. Rogue Lee, Byung Ryul $546,907.84 3. sOs Kim, Yoo Jin $528,839.27 I mean....JinAir Greenwings WTF!!! These dudes took everything!!! Looks like team environment matter after all | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
On March 24 2018 17:46 Ej_ wrote: I'm glad Maru could display the heights of his skill by winning 60 workers down, truly the raven and ghost micro was incredible, what a player .I wish him good luck in the finals vs the Protoss player Stats and in all next iterations of the game! Personally I think the first player to 100 workers should win. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On March 24 2018 17:46 Ej_ wrote: I wish him good luck in the finals vs the Protoss player Stats and in all next iterations of the game! Are you implying Maru can only have success in the current iteration of the game? There is probably no player that is less dependant on a favorable meta. Not to mention this is one of the worst metas for terran in a long time (worst since the blink era?) | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On March 24 2018 18:36 Charoisaur wrote: Are you implying Maru can only have success in the current iteration of the game? There is probably no player that is less dependant on a favorable meta. Not to mention this is one of the worst metas for terran in a long time (worst since the blink era?) Terran whine at his finest "he wins but Terran is weak". Geo.Rion sums up the situation pretty well. | ||
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RHoudini
Belgium3627 Posts
TvZ still the best matchup in Starcraft . | ||
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Penev
28477 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On March 24 2018 19:56 Tyrhanius wrote: Terran whine at his finest "he wins but Terran is weak". Geo.Rion sums up the situation pretty well. and that coming from the biggest balance whiner on the forums... | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
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Lexender
Mexico2647 Posts
On March 24 2018 19:56 Tyrhanius wrote: Terran whine at his finest "he wins but Terran is weak". Geo.Rion sums up the situation pretty well. If by "sums up the situation pretty well" you mean insult and make personal attacks on anyone that disagrees with him don't be surprised no one takes you seriously either. | ||
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stilt
France2749 Posts
For once, I might cheer for the protoss lol | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On March 24 2018 21:45 Shuffleblade wrote: Just watched the twitch vod since the semifinals was 5 AM for me. This match had a lot of the best games I've seen in a long time, it was amazing. TvZ is in a really great place in terms of how entertaining it is for spectators. Please let Maru take his triple crown, that would make me so happy! Maru is a god =D ^-- I'm with this guy. Days like today are what it's all about! I'm also hoping that Maru tears Stats apart limb from limb. My ideal is a 4-0 in Maru's favour, with several really close entertaining games and at least one psyche-shattering stomp. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
On March 24 2018 21:45 Shuffleblade wrote: Just watched the twitch vod since the semifinals was 5 AM for me. This match had a lot of the best games I've seen in a long time, it was amazing. TvZ is in a really great place in terms of how entertaining it is for spectators. Please let Maru take his triple crown, that would make me so happy! Maru is a god =D I thought Triple crown is for winning a premier tournament in KR, NA and EU, I think you mean Triple Premier Starleague wins (AKA at least a win in one GSL, one OSL and one SSL), which is a title ONLY POSSIBLE for Maru since the only other SC2 OSL Winner Rain is retired. Unless OSL return back to SC2 | ||
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
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ionONE
Germany605 Posts
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
On March 24 2018 21:20 Charoisaur wrote: and that coming from the biggest balance whiner on the forums... And I've forgotten that when you doesn't agree with a terran you're "a big whiner" | ||
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GrandTerran
71 Posts
On March 24 2018 23:29 juicyjames wrote: Was this recommended? Great series. Is there a way to hide the length of the video? I knew the result by towards the middle of game 6 | ||
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-NegativeZero-
United States2141 Posts
On March 24 2018 21:45 Shuffleblade wrote: Just watched the twitch vod since the semifinals was 5 AM for me. This match had a lot of the best games I've seen in a long time, it was amazing. TvZ is in a really great place in terms of how entertaining it is for spectators. Please let Maru take his triple crown, that would make me so happy! Maru is a god =D didn't you get the memo? you aren't supposed to be actually enjoying the games and appreciating the players' skill, you're just supposed to be whining about how your favorite race is underpowered | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
mech/skyterran with tons of turrets, PFs, sensor towers with a zerg repeatedly trying and failing to throw units into a wall and trade effectively is something we've seen before, it wasn't interesting then, and it's not interesting now just because maru can spam snipes really fast or because ravens have a differently colored missile now i have no idea if it's "balanced" - maybe maru is better than dark. but it looks like literally the same shit that pro turtle tvz has always been, and how anyone can call that good for spectators baffles me maru vs stats should be great though | ||
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Deleted User 3420
24492 Posts
It's not that Maru isn't excellent, or maybe even the more skilled player. He's clearly extremely extremely good ,and can use his skill to win games with all sorts of strategies. But the style he is relying on.... is kind of like.. well it's like he could tell his opponent everything he is planning on doing and it still wouldn't matter. There is no psychology or counter. It's just in his execution. If he is patient and executes it correctly, then his (zerg) opponent cannot win. | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On March 25 2018 00:23 travis wrote: So, this is the same as what I saw at WESG, and what I complained about then (and other people are complaining about). It's not that Maru isn't excellent, or maybe even the more skilled player. He's clearly extremely extremely good ,and can use his skill to win games with all sorts of strategies. But the style he is relying on.... is kind of like.. well it's like he could tell his opponent everything he is planning on doing and it still wouldn't matter. There is no psychology or counter. It's just in his execution. If he is patient and executes it correctly, then his (zerg) opponent cannot win. Hmm, is the excitement of the game for you mostly about the mind games and build-order strategies generally? I find it a bit of a weird criticism considering how game 6 hinged on sneaky play and game 2 was both players doing early game cheese. And considering Maru went mech in some games and bio in others... And considering how WESG had 3 games that went in Dark's favour and he looked like he had Maru's number in the late game if not for those final two cheeses. I mean, if that's how it looked to you, that's how it looked. But I'm finding it hard to see it from your angle. To me, he looks very good but not unbeatable (though he was a step ahead of Dark overall in this series, unlike WESG), and he also looks like he's varying his play. But then again, I remember when PartinG had strategies where he would literally say the build he was going to do and he would win with it all the time anyway because of his insane execution, and I thought that was amazing and very entertaining to watch, so maybe I'm also more entertained by incredible top-end micro intensive execution in general. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On March 24 2018 22:20 AzAlexZ wrote: I thought Triple crown is for winning a premier tournament in KR, NA and EU, I think you mean Triple Premier Starleague wins (AKA at least a win in one GSL, one OSL and one SSL), which is a title ONLY POSSIBLE for Maru since the only other SC2 OSL Winner Rain is retired. Unless OSL return back to SC2 Inno is GSL, SSL and VSL winner | ||
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GrandTerran
71 Posts
But I thought Darks micro was pretty bad in alot of cases, he lost alot of banelings needlessly and their cost adds up. Also was hoping to see him do more drop play. Maru played pretty flawlessly to be honest. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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Carminedust
487 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On March 24 2018 23:29 juicyjames wrote: Was this recommended? Games 1 and 5 were excellent | ||
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Bub
United States3518 Posts
Wow, that game1, what a great start to the series! | ||
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Fran_
United States1024 Posts
On March 24 2018 17:46 Ej_ wrote: I'm glad Maru could display the heights of his skill by winning 60 workers down, truly the raven and ghost micro was incredible, what a player .I wish him good luck in the finals vs the Protoss player Stats and in all next iterations of the game! That game was insanity! "Ok, he's dead... how is he winning it?" | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On March 25 2018 04:12 Fran_ wrote: That game was insanity! "Ok, he's dead... how is he winning it?" Ejmill strikes again | ||
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Poopi
France12875 Posts
On March 25 2018 04:12 Fran_ wrote: That game was insanity! "Ok, he's dead... how is he winning it?" He was way ahead in army so even tho the map is big it was easy at that point The guy you are quoting is a low mmr zerg trolling / being sarcastic tho | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:15 yangluphil wrote: Game is over. But let's pretend it's an epic game 10 minutes later. To be fair, good move from Maru for the hidden base this game. Gotta love these 30 minutes games that are over by 10 minutes mark. So easy to call yet so epic and 'insane'. False tension is good to feast on, pretensively I guess. If anything, Dark vs Inno last season was a much better series. Terran fans don't see that the complain here is not due to 'a terran won', which most fans are and should be perfectly ok with. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:35 yangluphil wrote: Gotta love these 30 minutes games that are over by 10 minutes mark. So easy to call yet so epic and 'insane'. False tension is good to feast on, pretensively I guess. If anything, Dark vs Inno last season was a much better series. Terran fans don't see that the complain here is not due to 'a terran won', which most fans are and should be perfectly ok with. Why are you replying to yourself? | ||
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Fran_
United States1024 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:19 Poopi wrote: He was way ahead in army so even tho the map is big it was easy at that point The guy you are quoting is a low mmr zerg trolling / being sarcastic tho Fair enough. I was referring to map 1 which really impressed me. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
I thought that's a quote button instead of reply button? Did I read it wrong? I saw many people think the games are incredible, which sickens me. Game was over as I and many people called here at 10 minutes mark (this particular post was for G6). Even tasteless repeatedly said there's no way for Dark to win despite having 11k bank and 2/3 of the map, and the game having false tension. It takes a REALLY one sided game for a caster to say something like this. All it took for Maru was patience and not suiciding his entire army. If you are not blind and know the game to some extent, you know this. So that was why I'm quoting myself, my friend. | ||
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djack0666
Belarus219 Posts
Great, great, great series.. and for those who said that Maru wouldn't have beaten Dark on macro games.. wink wink | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On March 25 2018 07:55 yangluphil wrote: I thought that's a quote button instead of reply button? Did I read it wrong? I saw many people think the games are incredible, which sickens me. Game was over as I and many people called here at 10 minutes mark (this particular post was for G6). Even tasteless repeatedly said there's no way for Dark to win despite having 11k bank and 2/3 of the map, and the game having false tension. It takes a REALLY one sided game for a caster to say something like this. All it took for Maru was patience and not suiciding his entire army. If you are not blind and know the game to some extent, you know this. So that was why I'm quoting myself, my friend. Game 6 was far from over 10 minutes in, not that it matters, using tasteless expert knowledge of SC2 as your source says it all. It sickens you that fans of starcraft liked the games? You are a sad person and I really hope you learn to not be sick when other people enjoy something you don't. Try to be happy for them instead, to each their own, I loved the games but that doesn't mean I don't respect the opinion of others that did not enjoy them or thought they were low quality. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 25 2018 08:07 Shuffleblade wrote: Game 6 was far from over 10 minutes in, not that it matters, using tasteless expert knowledge of SC2 as your source says it all. It sickens you that fans of starcraft liked the games? You are a sad person and I really hope you learn to not be sick when other people enjoy something you don't. Try to be happy for them instead, to each their own, I loved the games but that doesn't mean I don't respect the opinion of others that did not enjoy them or thought they were low quality. Tasteless as my source of knowledge? That's a twist. I quoted my own call there. If you go back the earlier in this game thread and WESG's, you will find in-game calls for other games too. Yes it sickens me if a bad series is held high regard. No it does not sicken me when fans like games in general. You can misconstruct my point by childish word play all you want, I'm glad you loved the games. Calling me a sad person all you want, I'm only interested in arguments not personal attacks. If you think it is wrong in general to argue on game state after a series, then ok we disagree about that. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On March 25 2018 08:18 yangluphil wrote: Tasteless as my source of knowledge? That's a twist. I quoted my own call there. If you go back the earlier in this game thread and WESG's, you will find in-game calls for other games too. Yes it sickens me if a bad series is held high regard. No it does not sicken me when fans like games in general. You can misconstruct my point by childish word play all you want, I'm glad you loved the games. Calling me a sad person all you want, I'm only interested in arguments not personal attacks. If you think it is wrong in general to argue on game state after a series, then ok we disagree about that. Argue game state by all means, I have yet to see you do that here though. The "quality" of a game(or game series) is all you have been arguing about the last couple of pages. Earlier I see quite a bit of balance whine, something that has nothing to do with one semifinals and surely does not belong here. When your balance whine fail you turn to whining about game quality, you obviously are not looking to "argue" anything here only push your subjective opinions onto others. "Game quality" is subjective, there are no criteria as to what series should be "held in high regard". Some viewers consider mind games or build order centric series of high quality, others prefer micro intense, harass centric, macro heavy or varied ones best. This is why when you say that it sickens you that other fans consider this series high quality it basically translates into this: "I don't like this series, I don't consider it good, other people do, I don't like when other people like things that I don't like, I want everyone to like what I like". You go on these forums and try to convince others that while they are of course allowed to "enjoy" these games, they need to realize they aren't "really" good since you don't think they are good. The fact that you think this qualifies as "arguing" just makes it sadder. | ||
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On March 25 2018 08:01 djack0666 wrote: It's just sad that such an amazing series is being overshadowed by whining and balance complaints. Great, great, great series.. and for those who said that Maru wouldn't have beaten Dark on macro games.. wink wink Yeah, I haven't seen the complaining volume dial turned up this high in a while. Maybe since tankivacs? Though I don't even remember that being so charged. Honestly, I can understand why people as spectators would want Blizzard to find a different way to balance lategame terran (which, as far as I can tell, is mostly viable right now because of unintended gameplay), but I can't quite wrap my head around this level of upset. Literally one terran in the world right now is looking unbelievably good and the sight of it seems to be giving a lot of people rabies. Is it the historical (but not current) terran dominance? http://aligulac.com/periods/ I'm even reading about comparisons to the old turtle mech days... I guess people don't quite remember how different those were, but I remember INnoVation's games back then turning into these really slow methodical pushes that took forever and looked nearly invincible (unless ByuL got mad enough to put INnoVation on tilt). The closest we got to anything even remotely resembling that in this series was game 6, and despite Maru taking a sneaky early expansion, that game had a lot of action to it, even if Maru was ahead. The old slow push style was just... not really there as far as I could see. And that game only could work out how it did because of that crazy early game economy boost. Which was a risk, not a playstyle. So this leads me to think that some people are just having a radically different perception of these games and reading some stuff into them that might be more based on their personal feelings than anything else. Which is cool, we all do that. I'm doing it too: I like these games even more than I ordinarily would because I'm a fan of Maru and glad he's in form again. I think the key is to recognise when you're doing it and try to bring something to the discussion that leaves some room for different viewpoints. Having been following SC2 discussions since the beta, I'm not going to pretend like I have some high expectation that everyone's gonna do that. But I think it'd be nice. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
When Blizzard inevitably nerfs ravens, I'd like their nerf to be to their speed, not their anti-armor missile. The reason the unit is so powerful is because it brings aoe damage without any real positional requirement because they fly and are decently fast. Terran needs some of that to actually stand toe to toe with late game Zerg, especially with the ability to remax instantly, but it is somewhat too good at that making it hard to play around them. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Blizzard will also nerf something if there's significant community outcry–refer to 4.0 creating BL/Infestor and Disruptor drops–but the community outcry already happened with Ravens, and the backlash of community outcry against that was enough to stop the proposed nerf. Though a minority of the community continues to whine, the amount of attention that whine receives has decreased substantially–reasonable people get sick of the same whine if repeated incessantly. As an example of what I'm talking about, Skytoss was very obviously Protoss-favored for about a year (from 3.8 to 4.0), but despite continuous Zerg whine, Blizzard never significantly nerfed Skytoss because the winrates remained balanced and there wasn't enough outrage in the community. (As an aside, I do find it rather ironic that as soon as Zerg finally managed to counter Skytoss, they now have to deal with Skyterran) Unless something big happens to change the status quo, I can't see them going forward with a Raven nerf. Despite what the whiners claim about the sky falling, Ravens have enough exploitable weaknesses that I doubt the winrates will change drastically. Likewise, the whine about a new strategy is always the worst when that strategy first appears; as time goes on people figure out counters and it simply becomes part of the new meta. Blizzard might throw the whiners a bone by applying some token nerf though (maybe AAM energy increase or something). TL;DR I'll believe a Raven nerf is happening once I read the community update that says it is. Until then people are just fantasizing about what they want, not what actually is. | ||
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Weavel
Finland9221 Posts
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
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AaBbCc
New Zealand110 Posts
 Keep in mind no one else has shown Raven use to that level, it sucks when one player, often a Terran, single-handedly causes a nerf by virtue of getting sickeningly good with a style or strat and usually through control and execution just becomes straight-up better than everyone else making it look imba in the process. The anti-Byun reaper nerf definitely comes to mind. I reckon give AAM single target damage, with only the spell's AA effect having splash. Makes dealing with those ling/bling attacks Dark was trying to use a lot harder. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On March 25 2018 18:02 AaBbCc wrote: Agreed, Raven needs toning down but only After Maru takes down Stats ofc Keep in mind no one else has shown Raven use to that level, it sucks when one player, often a Terran, single-handedly causes a nerf by virtue of getting sickeningly good with a style or strat and usually through control and execution just becomes straight-up better than everyone else making it look imba in the process. The anti-Byun reaper nerf definitely comes to mind. I reckon give AAM single target damage, with only the spell's AA effect having splash. Makes dealing with those ling/bling attacks Dark was trying to use a lot harder. this is the reason why we can never have a Flash in SC2. Whenever a player becomes disgustingly good with a style it gets nerfed. In this case I agree with a Raven nerf though just because I think it's badly designed. Mass spellcaster usage is just not very fun to watch. | ||
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Vertical
Indonesia4317 Posts
On March 25 2018 18:54 Charoisaur wrote: this is the reason why we can never have a Flash in SC2. Whenever a player becomes disgustingly good with a style it gets nerfed. In this case I agree with a Raven nerf though just because I think it's badly designed. Mass spellcaster usage is just not very fun to watch. aahhh the good old time of Byun's reapers | ||
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IcemanAsi
Israel681 Posts
On March 25 2018 18:54 Charoisaur wrote: this is the reason why we can never have a Flash in SC2. Whenever a player becomes disgustingly good with a style it gets nerfed. In this case I agree with a Raven nerf though just because I think it's badly designed. Mass spellcaster usage is just not very fun to watch. That's actually a really interesting point, does one player having extreme success with something make that something OP if no one else can pull it off? | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On March 25 2018 22:44 IcemanAsi wrote: That's actually a really interesting point, does one player having extreme success with something make that something OP if no one else can pull it off? It doesn't make it op, it could be op though. But noone would be able to prove it one way or another in the first place. Broodlord infestor anyone could see it is op, literally every zerg could do it. Raven/Ghost? We still need more games from multiple terrans to really have a good idea, it certainly looks quite strong when maru does it. I wonder if in the interview rogue did he was just joking (said it is fun to play vs lategame terran) or if he actually found success vs it, which would be vs maru ofc. | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
On March 25 2018 23:20 The_Red_Viper wrote: It doesn't make it op, it could be op though. But noone would be able to prove it one way or another in the first place. Broodlord infestor anyone could see it is op, literally every zerg could do it. Raven/Ghost? We still need more games from multiple terrans to really have a good idea, it certainly looks quite strong when maru does it. I wonder if in the interview rogue did he was just joking (said it is fun to play vs lategame terran) or if he actually found success vs it, which would be vs maru ofc. One fact you need to consider is that when Rogue had that interview Dark was beating Maru in the late game. Maru pulled it back with two rushes so he won the match but the long games Dark won. Thats what makes this semifinal with Maru vs Dark even cooler for me, because Maru obviously had holes in his play a week ago but as Maru says in his winner interview after the semifinals he thanks Rogue for helping him plug the holes. Maybe Rogue did have success against Maru late game a week ago, just like Dark had but does he still though? Its so incredible cool to see the meta and the balance twist and turn inbefore your eyes. Terran was having a lot of problems and only Maru qualified for RO8 GSL and he went on to show a new style that later was defeated by Dark and (based on the interview manageable for Rogue) and now in the semifinals Maru has developed his late game style even further and breaks the wall that Dark put before him earlier. How balanced is it, impossible to say because we are literally in the middle of the meta shifting like hell. | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
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Fran_
United States1024 Posts
On March 26 2018 02:21 mierin wrote: Honestly while Ravens are annoying I think ghosts are the real problem. Having a pack of invisible, tanky, lightning fast sniping machines in combination with the ravens is what makes it frustrating to watch for me. Ghosts are very easily counter-able by fungal or banelings and are very micro intensive. | ||
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Boggyb
2855 Posts
On March 26 2018 02:21 mierin wrote: Honestly while Ravens are annoying I think ghosts are the real problem. Having a pack of invisible, tanky, lightning fast sniping machines in combination with the ravens is what makes it frustrating to watch for me. Have redundant detection and the invisibility isn't a problem. If the Terran player is spending 3-5 snipes to take out your overseers, he isn't sniping more valuable units. They are only tanky because Maru is investing 3/3 into them. Ghosts are only faster than most Zerg units off of creep. If they're not on a covert mission on creep, they are going to be supported by army units which means their speed isn't particularly relevant. You watch a player like Maru kill a bunch of expensive Zerg units with ghosts and get disgusted but don't take into account that that is somewhat counterbalanced by the expense when he inevitably loses them. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On March 26 2018 02:46 Fran_ wrote: Ghosts are very easily counter-able by fungal or banelings and are very micro intensive. With burrowed fungal removed and Steady Targeting refunding energy, it's really not that "easy" anymore. But really it's the raven that enables this play. AAM on broods, corruptors or even just ling/bane/hydra just takes so much of a burden off the ghosts, plus interference matrix being able to disable spellcasters. Before 4.0 late game was Zerg favored unless the Terran played some perfect ghost/liberator (which didn't really happen much because most Terrans tried to end it before that point because that's very hard to play), and pretty much only Maru and TY nail that play style. With the raven it's now easier to play, but if you removed it I believe those 2 would still be fine. Against Zerg. Super late game TvP would probably be borderline unplayable again. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
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FritzPfotl_
Austria30 Posts
On March 26 2018 00:29 Shuffleblade wrote: One fact you need to consider is that when Rogue had that interview Dark was beating Maru in the late game. Maru pulled it back with two rushes so he won the match but the long games Dark won. Thats what makes this semifinal with Maru vs Dark even cooler for me, because Maru obviously had holes in his play a week ago but as Maru says in his winner interview after the semifinals he thanks Rogue for helping him plug the holes. Maybe Rogue did have success against Maru late game a week ago, just like Dark had but does he still though? Its so incredible cool to see the meta and the balance twist and turn inbefore your eyes. Terran was having a lot of problems and only Maru qualified for RO8 GSL and he went on to show a new style that later was defeated by Dark and (based on the interview manageable for Rogue) and now in the semifinals Maru has developed his late game style even further and breaks the wall that Dark put before him earlier. How balanced is it, impossible to say because we are literally in the middle of the meta shifting like hell. Good points. I really like to see those slow shifts in the meta game when the pros are figuring out the new strategies. I am sure the top Zergs will be able to adapt to Maru's late game style, but only time will tell. I think that Maru had a clear plan for the particular map in game 6, because he used mech, speed banshees, hidden expansion only on this map. It is always nice to see a player having a well thought out strategy and being able to execute it perfectly. I guess that's why it looked OP for some spectators but as I said, I am looking forward to see how Zergs will adapt. | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 25 2018 18:54 Charoisaur wrote: this is the reason why we can never have a Flash in SC2. Whenever a player becomes disgustingly good with a style it gets nerfed. In this case I agree with a Raven nerf though just because I think it's badly designed. Mass spellcaster usage is just not very fun to watch. We had Flash for a while and I don't think he was that successful (well, he was good, but not godlike)_ | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
On March 26 2018 04:30 FritzPfotl_ wrote: Good points. I really like to see those slow shifts in the meta game when the pros are figuring out the new strategies. I am sure the top Zergs will be able to adapt to Maru's late game style, but only time will tell. I think that Maru had a clear plan for the particular map in game 6, because he used mech, speed banshees, hidden expansion only on this map. It is always nice to see a player having a well thought out strategy and being able to execute it perfectly. I guess that's why it looked OP for some spectators but as I said, I am looking forward to see how Zergs will adapt. I'ma afraid that the onlyu solution in current state of the game, that pro Zergs can figure out is just some kind of allin- "kill them before they get there"- and i don't think it's good for the game unfortunaly. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On March 26 2018 03:56 hiroshOne wrote: Thats why they need nerf Ravens and nerf Protoss in some ways. I think they should start with toning down chronoboost as pretty much that's the problem especially in TvP with 2/2 Protoss gateway timings. This semis and final will shiw the problem. How Terran in lategame with turtling Maru style is stomping Zerg, and in the finals Stats will stomp Maru in the same way. The game is in a good state, but it's not balanced yet. I think terrans lack of answers to Collossus play is the much bigger problem than upgrades. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4943 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
On March 26 2018 07:18 Charoisaur wrote: I think terrans lack of answers to Collossus play is the much bigger problem than upgrades. It's ok, Maru hard-counters them with marauders. | ||
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SJ158
Brazil24 Posts
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hiroshOne
Poland425 Posts
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yangluphil
318 Posts
What's different now is how easy it is to get to mass ravens. Don't get me wrong, there should be a strategy for terrans to consistently get to late game assuming they don't make mistakes. Otherwise, what's the point of having the strong late game units? However, it feels that with speed buff, banshees in the mid-game are way too good. Hydras on creep can't even properly defend them. They are safer, deals more damage and requires less multitasking than bio drops. Did I mention that they seamlessly transition to mass ravens? To me, mass banshees should be a harass strategy that can force opponents to reposition so that it can buy time for ravens. But it should not make Terrans have the upper hand in mid-game and should be a bit riskier than as is. That's just straight from game design's POV and it has nothing to do with balance (I do realize pre-buff banshees were just gimmicks so I don't mean we should go back). I'd be perfectly fine to have an adjustment that buffs terrans overall if it improves the state of the game. | ||
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fronkschnonk
Germany622 Posts
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On March 27 2018 16:20 fronkschnonk wrote: Funny how everyone forgets that the matches of Maru vs Dark were very close. It's not that Maru dominated Dark to the ground. Very long doesn't mean very close ;o | ||
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Ansibled
United Kingdom9872 Posts
Are you really trying to say that the series weren't close? | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On March 27 2018 23:26 Ansibled wrote: Are you really trying to say that the series weren't close? A couple games were close...others especially the last were utterly one sided | ||
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nath
United States1788 Posts
I haven't watched all TvZ's recently but I don't see other Terran having the same late-game success. Maybe give the kid some credit? | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
On March 29 2018 09:17 nath wrote: It seems ... weird to contend that Maru's success says something is wrong with late game Terran. I haven't watched all TvZ's recently but I don't see other Terran having the same late-game success. Maybe give the kid some credit? It seems weird because you're giving the Zerg whiners too much credit. Maru won --> they whine. Maru plays Terran --> they whine about Terran. Maru used Ravens --> they whine about Ravens. etc If Maru was a Protoss player that used Carriers to win, they'd whine about that too. To be fair, if Dark won there would also be whine from Terran. And no matter who wins in the finals, there will most certainly be a great deal of whine about them. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 29 2018 09:17 nath wrote: It seems ... weird to contend that Maru's success says something is wrong with late game Terran. I haven't watched all TvZ's recently but I don't see other Terran having the same late-game success. Maybe give the kid some credit? Where did you get the impression that criticism is targeted at Maru the player or Terran the race? Maru is my second favorite terran (love all JAGW players) behind TY. I don't like Inno's playstyle at all but I had no problem with him winning so much last year. Rain is my favorite player of all time and I argue against force field and how PVZ is broken for the whole HOTS era. Phoenix adept too was utterly broken last year, and there's nothing wrong pointing that out after herO wins GSL ST. We can't even discuss the game? There are balance whiners on one hand. There are balance whine whiners, who whine everything is balance whine, on the other. | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 27 2018 23:26 Ansibled wrote: Are you really trying to say that the series weren't close? G1 and G5, especially G5 was reasonably close. G2 was short and one-sided. G3,G4 and G6 were all one sided albeit long, including the game that Dark won. It was super easy to call the winner just based on whether Terran could stabilize for a while at 8-10 ravens. If Zerg takes a short break in continuous remaxing and throwing swarms at the terran's outskirt base during this stage (e.g., because bank ran out or w/e) then he would lose, and it would not matter if Zerg can regain a 10k bank or higher after this hiatus. Latter half of the games were just going through the motions. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4943 Posts
On March 27 2018 23:39 Cricketer12 wrote: A couple games were close...others especially the last were utterly one sided you mean the one which maru was on 3 CC and Dark allined and failed? the surprise was that dark ddint gg out after the attack | ||
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yangluphil
318 Posts
On March 24 2018 15:58 Wildmoon wrote: Let's wait until the evidence comes in to back up the claim then? Hey TvZ at 60% GSL S2 even with raven nerf and TvP appears playable. Who would have thunk. | ||
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