TY is the clear favorite and this is a Bo5 so even if iA pulls some crazy stuff he's unlikely to take more than 2 games. Inno stomped herO 2-0 recently in SSL. Rogue's ZvZ is close to soO-level, and Dark always loses to soO. soO isn't in the finals.
hope ESL can get their shit together today. Chinese audience are pretty mad about them yesterday.
Edit: For those who don't know 1. No proper Chinese stream, ESL somehow provide a Chinese stream with English soundtrack. Streaming to the local website with VPN on, so the Chinese stream is very laggy. 2. No TIME's game was broadcast or staged yesterday, even the recap section in the English stream was cut into CMs in the Chinese stream. There are audience traveled thousand miles to watch these games, but result in learning their Chinese players get eliminated an hour later, on liquidpedia....
On July 29 2017 10:49 usopsama wrote: Is it true that there are no Chinese casters, despite it being an event held in China? If that is true, that is pretty fucked up.
no there's chinese casters and chinese audio for the crowd
On July 29 2017 10:49 usopsama wrote: Is it true that there are no Chinese casters, despite it being an event held in China? If that is true, that is pretty fucked up.
no there's chinese casters and chinese audio for the crowd
On July 29 2017 10:49 usopsama wrote: Is it true that there are no Chinese casters, despite it being an event held in China? If that is true, that is pretty fucked up.
no there's chinese casters and chinese audio for the crowd
On July 29 2017 11:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the only way to truly hang with the best is to do what grrr did. move to korea and assimilate.
He is playing at the SC:R event :O
the year he was champ he was asked what his practice record was. he said he played 1500 games and lost more than he won. "if i won more than i lost in practise i'd be wasting my time."
On July 29 2017 11:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the only way to truly hang with the best is to do what grrr did. move to korea and assimilate.
He is playing at the SC:R event :O
the year he was champ he was asked what his practice record was. he said he played 1500 games and lost more than he won. "if i won more than i lost in practise i'd be wasting my time."
On July 29 2017 11:56 JimmyJRaynor wrote: the only way to truly hang with the best is to do what grrr did. move to korea and assimilate.
He is playing at the SC:R event :O
the year he was champ he was asked what his practice record was. he said he played 1500 games and lost more than he won. "if i won more than i lost in practise i'd be wasting my time."
I agree with the idea of lost games being better for improving. Though it's strange because it seems most of the koreans nowadays just grind out the ladder and get 30+ winstreaks quite easliy
On July 29 2017 12:04 Fango wrote: Though it's strange because it seems most of the koreans nowadays just grind out the ladder and get 30+ winstreaks quite easliy
i bet you a structured team house would work better though.
On July 29 2017 11:55 Fango wrote: iAsonu is really good, but he's playing against the potential best TvZ in the world
He played TY and not Innovation
TY doesn't lose TvZs though :p
Well at least not this tournament
In 2017, his only (significant) offline TvZ loss was 3-2 to soO in GSL. He was litterally 1 map of a perfect TvZ score for 2017
TY played 11 offline TvZ matches this year with a win% of 81% (9-2). Inno played 27 with 89% (24-3) I mean cmon
The 0-1 loss to ByuL isn't a big deal imo as it was a bo1 and in a qualifer I think.
Why said his only significant offline TvZ loss this year is to soO in GSL (where he was 2-0 up). Inno has actually lost TvZ matches recently (to solar and dark).
On July 29 2017 11:55 Fango wrote: iAsonu is really good, but he's playing against the potential best TvZ in the world
He played TY and not Innovation
TY doesn't lose TvZs though :p
Well at least not this tournament
In 2017, his only (significant) offline TvZ loss was 3-2 to soO in GSL. He was litterally 1 map of a perfect TvZ score for 2017
TY played 11 offline TvZ matches this year with a win% of 81% (9-2). Inno played 27 with 89% (24-3) I mean cmon
The 0-1 loss to ByuL isn't a big deal imo as it was a bo1 and in a qualifer I think.
Why said his only significant offline TvZ loss this year is to soO in GSL (where he was 2-0 up). Inno has actually lost TvZ matches recently (to solar and dark).
On July 29 2017 11:55 Fango wrote: iAsonu is really good, but he's playing against the potential best TvZ in the world
He played TY and not Innovation
TY doesn't lose TvZs though :p
Well at least not this tournament
In 2017, his only (significant) offline TvZ loss was 3-2 to soO in GSL. He was litterally 1 map of a perfect TvZ score for 2017
TY played 11 offline TvZ matches this year with a win% of 81% (9-2). Inno played 27 with 89% (24-3) I mean cmon
The 0-1 loss to ByuL isn't a big deal imo as it was a bo1 and in a qualifer I think.
Why said his only significant offline TvZ loss this year is to soO in GSL (where he was 2-0 up). Inno has actually lost TvZ matches recently (to solar and dark).
1TvZ loss > 2 TvZ losses
I mean i know you aren't 100% serious here Let's just say that TY looked good in TvZ this tournament so far
On July 29 2017 11:55 Fango wrote: iAsonu is really good, but he's playing against the potential best TvZ in the world
He played TY and not Innovation
TY doesn't lose TvZs though :p
Well at least not this tournament
In 2017, his only (significant) offline TvZ loss was 3-2 to soO in GSL. He was litterally 1 map of a perfect TvZ score for 2017
TY played 11 offline TvZ matches this year with a win% of 81% (9-2). Inno played 27 with 89% (24-3) I mean cmon
The 0-1 loss to ByuL isn't a big deal imo as it was a bo1 and in a qualifer I think.
Why said his only significant offline TvZ loss this year is to soO in GSL (where he was 2-0 up). Inno has actually lost TvZ matches recently (to solar and dark).
1TvZ loss > 2 TvZ losses
Sample size. Inno has played more and won more.
True true. But TY hasn't lost a TvZ in over 5 months now, whereas we've seen that Inno recently can actually lose (solar, dark)
On July 29 2017 11:55 Fango wrote: iAsonu is really good, but he's playing against the potential best TvZ in the world
He played TY and not Innovation
TY doesn't lose TvZs though :p
Well at least not this tournament
In 2017, his only (significant) offline TvZ loss was 3-2 to soO in GSL. He was litterally 1 map of a perfect TvZ score for 2017
TY played 11 offline TvZ matches this year with a win% of 81% (9-2). Inno played 27 with 89% (24-3) I mean cmon
The 0-1 loss to ByuL isn't a big deal imo as it was a bo1 and in a qualifer I think.
Why said his only significant offline TvZ loss this year is to soO in GSL (where he was 2-0 up). Inno has actually lost TvZ matches recently (to solar and dark).
1TvZ loss > 2 TvZ losses
Sample size. Inno has played more and won more.
True true. But TY hasn't lost a TvZ in over 5 months now, whereas we've seen that Inno recently can actually lose (solar, dark)
There is not such a thing as "cannot lose". Inno has the best TvZ in the world, that doesn't mean he cannot lose some games and matches here and there against really good zerg players though.
On July 29 2017 11:55 Fango wrote: iAsonu is really good, but he's playing against the potential best TvZ in the world
He played TY and not Innovation
TY doesn't lose TvZs though :p
Well at least not this tournament
In 2017, his only (significant) offline TvZ loss was 3-2 to soO in GSL. He was litterally 1 map of a perfect TvZ score for 2017
TY played 11 offline TvZ matches this year with a win% of 81% (9-2). Inno played 27 with 89% (24-3) I mean cmon
The 0-1 loss to ByuL isn't a big deal imo as it was a bo1 and in a qualifer I think.
Why said his only significant offline TvZ loss this year is to soO in GSL (where he was 2-0 up). Inno has actually lost TvZ matches recently (to solar and dark).
1TvZ loss > 2 TvZ losses
Sample size. Inno has played more and won more.
True true. But TY hasn't lost a TvZ in over 5 months now, whereas we've seen that Inno recently can actually lose (solar, dark)
There is not such a thing as "cannot lose". Inno has the best TvZ in the world, that doesn't mean he cannot lose some games and matches here and there against really good zerg players though.
Well reddit told me that ByuN has the best TvZ in the world so I guess Inno and TY need to sit down :p
On July 29 2017 11:55 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] He played TY and not Innovation
TY doesn't lose TvZs though :p
Well at least not this tournament
In 2017, his only (significant) offline TvZ loss was 3-2 to soO in GSL. He was litterally 1 map of a perfect TvZ score for 2017
TY played 11 offline TvZ matches this year with a win% of 81% (9-2). Inno played 27 with 89% (24-3) I mean cmon
The 0-1 loss to ByuL isn't a big deal imo as it was a bo1 and in a qualifer I think.
Why said his only significant offline TvZ loss this year is to soO in GSL (where he was 2-0 up). Inno has actually lost TvZ matches recently (to solar and dark).
1TvZ loss > 2 TvZ losses
Sample size. Inno has played more and won more.
True true. But TY hasn't lost a TvZ in over 5 months now, whereas we've seen that Inno recently can actually lose (solar, dark)
There is not such a thing as "cannot lose". Inno has the best TvZ in the world, that doesn't mean he cannot lose some games and matches here and there against really good zerg players though.
Well reddit told me that ByuN has the best TvZ in the world so I guess Inno and TY need to sit down :p
Reddit obsesses over reapers, and ByuN, and ByuN reapers.
On July 29 2017 11:55 The_Red_Viper wrote: [quote] He played TY and not Innovation
TY doesn't lose TvZs though :p
Well at least not this tournament
In 2017, his only (significant) offline TvZ loss was 3-2 to soO in GSL. He was litterally 1 map of a perfect TvZ score for 2017
TY played 11 offline TvZ matches this year with a win% of 81% (9-2). Inno played 27 with 89% (24-3) I mean cmon
The 0-1 loss to ByuL isn't a big deal imo as it was a bo1 and in a qualifer I think.
Why said his only significant offline TvZ loss this year is to soO in GSL (where he was 2-0 up). Inno has actually lost TvZ matches recently (to solar and dark).
1TvZ loss > 2 TvZ losses
Sample size. Inno has played more and won more.
True true. But TY hasn't lost a TvZ in over 5 months now, whereas we've seen that Inno recently can actually lose (solar, dark)
There is not such a thing as "cannot lose". Inno has the best TvZ in the world, that doesn't mean he cannot lose some games and matches here and there against really good zerg players though.
Well reddit told me that ByuN has the best TvZ in the world so I guess Inno and TY need to sit down :p
In 2017, his only (significant) offline TvZ loss was 3-2 to soO in GSL. He was litterally 1 map of a perfect TvZ score for 2017
TY played 11 offline TvZ matches this year with a win% of 81% (9-2). Inno played 27 with 89% (24-3) I mean cmon
The 0-1 loss to ByuL isn't a big deal imo as it was a bo1 and in a qualifer I think.
Why said his only significant offline TvZ loss this year is to soO in GSL (where he was 2-0 up). Inno has actually lost TvZ matches recently (to solar and dark).
1TvZ loss > 2 TvZ losses
Sample size. Inno has played more and won more.
True true. But TY hasn't lost a TvZ in over 5 months now, whereas we've seen that Inno recently can actually lose (solar, dark)
There is not such a thing as "cannot lose". Inno has the best TvZ in the world, that doesn't mean he cannot lose some games and matches here and there against really good zerg players though.
Well reddit told me that ByuN has the best TvZ in the world so I guess Inno and TY need to sit down :p
reddit thinks a lot of stupid things
"but he's no.1 on aligulac"
"and reapers aren't OP it's just byun has the best micro ever"
On July 29 2017 12:56 The_Red_Viper wrote: I don't understand it, take the third instead of the natural so inno will 100% scout the gold. The place where you proxy the stargate. OK
It was a panic move. He had proxy nexus in mind and still went for it
On July 29 2017 13:24 geokilla wrote: Damn that was a great game by herO. Did everything perfectly. The defense, the attacks, the harass, wow.
I mean it's not that hard to "defend" when you can tag the entire enemy army and thus the opponent doesn't even try to harass you. Srsly that spell is kinda stupid
On July 29 2017 13:24 geokilla wrote: Damn that was a great game by herO. Did everything perfectly. The defense, the attacks, the harass, wow.
I mean it's not that hard to "defend" when you can tag the entire enemy army and thus the opponent doesn't even try to harass you. Srsly that spell is kinda stupid
Is David Kim's spirit offered to cut the duration of revelation in half in exchange for cutting the energy cost in half would you say yes?
On July 29 2017 13:26 JimmyJRaynor wrote: imo, ZvZ is the worst of the 3 mirrors by far. i hope i get proven wrong in this next series.
ZvZ has always been like ZvZ but personally I think it is still is better than ever in current meta. After the roach war stage. Once tier 2/3 units like lurkers/ultra/infestor comes in the late game is much more interesting than back in HotS. Occaionally muta games are fun as well.
On July 29 2017 13:24 geokilla wrote: Damn that was a great game by herO. Did everything perfectly. The defense, the attacks, the harass, wow.
I mean it's not that hard to "defend" when you can tag the entire enemy army and thus the opponent doesn't even try to harass you. Srsly that spell is kinda stupid
Is David Kim's spirit offered to cut the duration of revelation in half in exchange for cutting the energy cost in half would you say yes?
I mean in theory the protoss has to be more active that way, but i don't think it would change much, maybe make it even stronger because you theoretically have more energy for other things when you don't wanna tag. But yeah dunno, the spell itself shouldn't tag every unit in the area or something. (aka limiting the number of units). Oh well
On July 29 2017 13:30 seemsgood wrote: Also Zvz is the only match up we could see lurkers in action.Not sure what's wrong with this unit in this years.
Lurkers also pop up in PvZ though less often than a few months ago.
On July 29 2017 13:24 geokilla wrote: Damn that was a great game by herO. Did everything perfectly. The defense, the attacks, the harass, wow.
I mean it's not that hard to "defend" when you can tag the entire enemy army and thus the opponent doesn't even try to harass you. Srsly that spell is kinda stupid
Is David Kim's spirit offered to cut the duration of revelation in half in exchange for cutting the energy cost in half would you say yes?
I mean in theory the protoss has to be more active that way, but i don't think it would change much, maybe make it even stronger because you theoretically have more energy for other things when you don't wanna tag. But yeah dunno, the spell itself shouldn't tag every unit in the area or something. (aka limiting the number of units). Oh well
It would help a lot with defending DTs, banshees, and especially mines early on mostly. And make it weaker in the later phases of the game. What if David Kim's spirit offered to nerf the range to 7 from 9 on top of that?
On July 29 2017 13:30 seemsgood wrote: Also Zvz is the only match up we could see lurkers in action.Not sure what's wrong with this unit in this years.
Lurkers also pop up in PvZ though less often than a few months ago.
There was a time they are used in ZvT as well, back when people still experimenting with hydra after the buff. Who knows, if the hydra ling/baneling meta stays someone might figure out a use for it again in ZvT
On July 29 2017 13:24 geokilla wrote: Damn that was a great game by herO. Did everything perfectly. The defense, the attacks, the harass, wow.
I mean it's not that hard to "defend" when you can tag the entire enemy army and thus the opponent doesn't even try to harass you. Srsly that spell is kinda stupid
Is David Kim's spirit offered to cut the duration of revelation in half in exchange for cutting the energy cost in half would you say yes?
I mean in theory the protoss has to be more active that way, but i don't think it would change much, maybe make it even stronger because you theoretically have more energy for other things when you don't wanna tag. But yeah dunno, the spell itself shouldn't tag every unit in the area or something. (aka limiting the number of units). Oh well
It would help a lot with defending DTs, banshees, and especially mines early on mostly. And make it weaker in the later phases of the game. What if David Kim's spirit offered to nerf the range to 7 from 9 on top of that?
Good point about defending early stuff. I mean you kinda nerf it, but my problem is the design behind it really. One click and you can see the whole enemy army. That's kinda ridiculous and that doesn't really change with some small tweaks here and there. Even if it is technically worse.
On July 29 2017 13:30 seemsgood wrote: Also Zvz is the only match up we could see lurkers in action.Not sure what's wrong with this unit in this years.
Lurkers also pop up in PvZ though less often than a few months ago.
There was a time they are used in ZvT as well, back when people still experimenting with hydra after the buff. Who knows, if the hydra ling/baneling meta stays someone might figure out a use for it again in ZvT
But i realized avilo's figured it out even in pre-3.8.
On July 29 2017 13:30 seemsgood wrote: Also Zvz is the only match up we could see lurkers in action.Not sure what's wrong with this unit in this years.
Lurkers also pop up in PvZ though less often than a few months ago.
There was a time they are used in ZvT as well, back when people still experimenting with hydra after the buff. Who knows, if the hydra ling/baneling meta stays someone might figure out a use for it again in ZvT
Lurkers just look really bad against almost everything Terran could conceivably go for.
And wow Wax is doing a great job with the news ticker.
On July 29 2017 13:34 Waxangel wrote: ZvZ is good sometimes D:
At least it has a higher chance to be good than in WoL or HotS
Or BW.
I actually really like bw zvz, there were some really good games in ASL and SSL, tense as fuck. You don't see a huge variety of unit compositions though
On July 29 2017 13:34 Waxangel wrote: ZvZ is good sometimes D:
At least it has a higher chance to be good than in WoL or HotS
Or BW.
I actually really like bw zvz, there were some really good games in ASL and SSL, tense as fuck. You don't see a huge variety of unit compositions though
There's that one game out of 30 that goes to an epic late game air battle, another game out of 30 where one pros tries for hydras and then shows us why you don't try for hydras, and the 28 other games are the same ling into muta/scourge.
On July 29 2017 13:24 geokilla wrote: Damn that was a great game by herO. Did everything perfectly. The defense, the attacks, the harass, wow.
I mean it's not that hard to "defend" when you can tag the entire enemy army and thus the opponent doesn't even try to harass you. Srsly that spell is kinda stupid
Is David Kim's spirit offered to cut the duration of revelation in half in exchange for cutting the energy cost in half would you say yes?
I mean in theory the protoss has to be more active that way, but i don't think it would change much, maybe make it even stronger because you theoretically have more energy for other things when you don't wanna tag. But yeah dunno, the spell itself shouldn't tag every unit in the area or something. (aka limiting the number of units). Oh well
It would help a lot with defending DTs, banshees, and especially mines early on mostly. And make it weaker in the later phases of the game. What if David Kim's spirit offered to nerf the range to 7 from 9 on top of that?
Why on earth are we even discussing a protoss nerf at this point?
On July 29 2017 13:24 geokilla wrote: Damn that was a great game by herO. Did everything perfectly. The defense, the attacks, the harass, wow.
I mean it's not that hard to "defend" when you can tag the entire enemy army and thus the opponent doesn't even try to harass you. Srsly that spell is kinda stupid
Is David Kim's spirit offered to cut the duration of revelation in half in exchange for cutting the energy cost in half would you say yes?
I mean in theory the protoss has to be more active that way, but i don't think it would change much, maybe make it even stronger because you theoretically have more energy for other things when you don't wanna tag. But yeah dunno, the spell itself shouldn't tag every unit in the area or something. (aka limiting the number of units). Oh well
It would help a lot with defending DTs, banshees, and especially mines early on mostly. And make it weaker in the later phases of the game. What if David Kim's spirit offered to nerf the range to 7 from 9 on top of that?
Why on earth are we even discussing a protoss nerf at this point?
On July 29 2017 13:24 geokilla wrote: Damn that was a great game by herO. Did everything perfectly. The defense, the attacks, the harass, wow.
I mean it's not that hard to "defend" when you can tag the entire enemy army and thus the opponent doesn't even try to harass you. Srsly that spell is kinda stupid
Is David Kim's spirit offered to cut the duration of revelation in half in exchange for cutting the energy cost in half would you say yes?
I mean in theory the protoss has to be more active that way, but i don't think it would change much, maybe make it even stronger because you theoretically have more energy for other things when you don't wanna tag. But yeah dunno, the spell itself shouldn't tag every unit in the area or something. (aka limiting the number of units). Oh well
It would help a lot with defending DTs, banshees, and especially mines early on mostly. And make it weaker in the later phases of the game. What if David Kim's spirit offered to nerf the range to 7 from 9 on top of that?
Why on earth are we even discussing a protoss nerf at this point?
On July 29 2017 13:44 seemsgood wrote: sc2 in china isn't censored right ? Everything just blow up in your face ,nothing was cutted. Dota 2 is no the case lol........
Sc2 doesn't have as many skeletons to trigger the censors.
On July 29 2017 13:34 Waxangel wrote: ZvZ is good sometimes D:
At least it has a higher chance to be good than in WoL or HotS
Or BW.
I actually really like bw zvz, there were some really good games in ASL and SSL, tense as fuck. You don't see a huge variety of unit compositions though
There's that one game out of 30 that goes to an epic late game air battle, another game out of 30 where one pros tries for hydras and then shows us why you don't try for hydras, and the 28 other games are the same ling into muta/scourge.
Oh yeah it's basically always ling into muta scourge, but that can be pretty exciting imo depending on the expansion timings, etc. The best games in SSL/ASL were zvzs and most people enjoyed them actually :D The nature of the low eco style really creates a unique scenario, dunno i like it
On July 29 2017 13:34 Waxangel wrote: ZvZ is good sometimes D:
At least it has a higher chance to be good than in WoL or HotS
Or BW.
I actually really like bw zvz, there were some really good games in ASL and SSL, tense as fuck. You don't see a huge variety of unit compositions though
There's that one game out of 30 that goes to an epic late game air battle, another game out of 30 where one pros tries for hydras and then shows us why you don't try for hydras, and the 28 other games are the same ling into muta/scourge.
Oh yeah it's basically always ling into muta scourge, but that can be pretty exciting imo depending on the expansion timings, etc. The best games in SSL/ASL were zvzs and most people enjoyed them actually :D The nature of the low eco style really creates a unique scenario, dunno i like it
That sounds like the same explanation Olli gives for why HotS PvP is the best match-up.
On July 29 2017 13:44 seemsgood wrote: sc2 in china isn't censored right ? Everything just blow up in your face ,nothing was cutted. Dota 2 is no the case lol........
It is censored, similar to the Korean version you can see on some of the Korean tournament stream. Mostly just removed death animation and blood. And some cutscenes.
On July 29 2017 13:24 geokilla wrote: Damn that was a great game by herO. Did everything perfectly. The defense, the attacks, the harass, wow.
I mean it's not that hard to "defend" when you can tag the entire enemy army and thus the opponent doesn't even try to harass you. Srsly that spell is kinda stupid
Is David Kim's spirit offered to cut the duration of revelation in half in exchange for cutting the energy cost in half would you say yes?
I mean in theory the protoss has to be more active that way, but i don't think it would change much, maybe make it even stronger because you theoretically have more energy for other things when you don't wanna tag. But yeah dunno, the spell itself shouldn't tag every unit in the area or something. (aka limiting the number of units). Oh well
It would help a lot with defending DTs, banshees, and especially mines early on mostly. And make it weaker in the later phases of the game. What if David Kim's spirit offered to nerf the range to 7 from 9 on top of that?
Why on earth are we even discussing a protoss nerf at this point?
It's a design thing not a balance thing.
People in the sc2 community never wanna discuss design
On July 29 2017 13:34 Waxangel wrote: ZvZ is good sometimes D:
At least it has a higher chance to be good than in WoL or HotS
Or BW.
I actually really like bw zvz, there were some really good games in ASL and SSL, tense as fuck. You don't see a huge variety of unit compositions though
There's that one game out of 30 that goes to an epic late game air battle, another game out of 30 where one pros tries for hydras and then shows us why you don't try for hydras, and the 28 other games are the same ling into muta/scourge.
Oh yeah it's basically always ling into muta scourge, but that can be pretty exciting imo depending on the expansion timings, etc. The best games in SSL/ASL were zvzs and most people enjoyed them actually :D The nature of the low eco style really creates a unique scenario, dunno i like it
That sounds like the same explanation Olli gives for why HotS PvP is the best match-up.
If you wanna say that muta scourge micro is similar to colossus micro, sure Decent zvz example:
On July 29 2017 13:34 Waxangel wrote: ZvZ is good sometimes D:
At least it has a higher chance to be good than in WoL or HotS
Or BW.
I actually really like bw zvz, there were some really good games in ASL and SSL, tense as fuck. You don't see a huge variety of unit compositions though
There's that one game out of 30 that goes to an epic late game air battle, another game out of 30 where one pros tries for hydras and then shows us why you don't try for hydras, and the 28 other games are the same ling into muta/scourge.
Oh yeah it's basically always ling into muta scourge, but that can be pretty exciting imo depending on the expansion timings, etc. The best games in SSL/ASL were zvzs and most people enjoyed them actually :D The nature of the low eco style really creates a unique scenario, dunno i like it
A ZvZ was also the only series EffOrt lost in SSL, with a swift 12hatch vs 9pool
On July 29 2017 13:24 geokilla wrote: Damn that was a great game by herO. Did everything perfectly. The defense, the attacks, the harass, wow.
I mean it's not that hard to "defend" when you can tag the entire enemy army and thus the opponent doesn't even try to harass you. Srsly that spell is kinda stupid
Is David Kim's spirit offered to cut the duration of revelation in half in exchange for cutting the energy cost in half would you say yes?
I mean in theory the protoss has to be more active that way, but i don't think it would change much, maybe make it even stronger because you theoretically have more energy for other things when you don't wanna tag. But yeah dunno, the spell itself shouldn't tag every unit in the area or something. (aka limiting the number of units). Oh well
It would help a lot with defending DTs, banshees, and especially mines early on mostly. And make it weaker in the later phases of the game. What if David Kim's spirit offered to nerf the range to 7 from 9 on top of that?
Why on earth are we even discussing a protoss nerf at this point?
It's a design thing not a balance thing.
Ah. Ok.
Medivacs are bad design, delete them. Libs too. Mines have no place in a RTS either. Queens should have no attack as they are micro units. Creep provides too much vision, double tumor cost. Etc etc.
All in the name of design of course.
(Hint: take balance whine to it's own thread please.)
On July 29 2017 13:34 Waxangel wrote: ZvZ is good sometimes D:
At least it has a higher chance to be good than in WoL or HotS
Or BW.
I actually really like bw zvz, there were some really good games in ASL and SSL, tense as fuck. You don't see a huge variety of unit compositions though
There's that one game out of 30 that goes to an epic late game air battle, another game out of 30 where one pros tries for hydras and then shows us why you don't try for hydras, and the 28 other games are the same ling into muta/scourge.
Oh yeah it's basically always ling into muta scourge, but that can be pretty exciting imo depending on the expansion timings, etc. The best games in SSL/ASL were zvzs and most people enjoyed them actually :D The nature of the low eco style really creates a unique scenario, dunno i like it
A ZvZ was also the only series EffOrt lost in SSL, with a swift 12hatch vs 9pool
I mean yeah that happens as well^^ But there were quite a few pretty good zvzs iirc. Maybe it's just me though :D
Its still hard to become a bogus'fan in 2017.Oh wait...i already say that....
fucking idiot cant win every tournament he plays
Looking at his stats it's just disappointing tbh. Unreal win% but barely titles/really high finishes to make it matter. Still SSL/GSL/GSL vs the world to make up for it though
On July 29 2017 14:34 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue might win this tourney
Rogue will not win a game against ByuN/herO/TY
That statement is absurd, unless you think that soO wins against Byun and then beats Rogue
ByuN will beat soO and 3-0 Rogue easily. If you've seen SSL you'll know why I'm saying that. Rogue just couldn't deal with widow mines, it was sad to see
On July 29 2017 14:34 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue might win this tourney
Rogue will not win a game against ByuN/herO/TY
That statement is absurd, unless you think that soO wins against Byun and then beats Rogue
ByuN will beat soO and 3-0 Rogue easily. If you've seen SSL you'll know why I'm saying that. Rogue just couldn't deal with widow mines, it was sad to see
I mean 3-0 can happen but it's definitely not the most likely result if Rogue and Byun meet.
On July 29 2017 14:34 Charoisaur wrote: Rogue might win this tourney
Rogue will not win a game against ByuN/herO/TY
That statement is absurd, unless you think that soO wins against Byun and then beats Rogue
ByuN will beat soO and 3-0 Rogue easily. If you've seen SSL you'll know why I'm saying that. Rogue just couldn't deal with widow mines, it was sad to see
I have seen Byun get destroyed like a little bitch by Zest, the worst player in the SSL. it was sad to see
Well I favour soO for the tournament now because TY can't beat herO, ByuN is I guess his strongest opponent. I like soO's chances in ZvZ no matter who he is playing.
I love PiG but I have to point out that soOand Byun are on relatively even worker count. The harass really did the damage needed for Byun to transition.
Man hydras are suck against bios.Back in HOTS they couldn't trade cost efficient against pure MMM and widow mines. Terran players just too abuse in the new siege tank and forget good ol marauders.
Byun depends too much on reaper, when this unit get patched, i wonder what he will become, because so far all of his achievement had been coming from mass reaper
On July 29 2017 16:17 ParksonVN wrote: Byun depends too much on reaper, when this unit get patched, i wonder what he will become, because so far all of his achievement had been coming from mass reaper
Remember when he massed reapers in his Zergless GSL bracket? Oh boy that was broken.
Nobody describes marines, with medivacs, liberators and widowmines and sometimes a few tanks as mass marines. Why should it be different for reapers?
because making 15 to 20 reapers before any other unit is massing reapers, probably
Yes but you can open CC first with 3 gasless rax and produce 15-20 marines before any other tech is out. I agree that he is massing reapers at the beginning but I wouldn't describe his army composition as mass reapers (unless it was pretty much just reapers and medivacs)
On July 29 2017 16:12 romson87 wrote: One unit ruining the best match-up..
So true, it went from beeing my favorite to least favorite
PvT is the best matchup at present, but even that has issues. As to reapers they cant nerf it because of one player who is exceptional at early game micro imho
The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
On July 29 2017 16:33 Elentos wrote: The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
They should give reapers stim and remove grenade then.
On July 29 2017 16:33 Elentos wrote: The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
They should give reapers stim and remove grenade then.
On July 29 2017 16:33 Elentos wrote: The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
The reaper has many abilities other races must have researched first. All in the very early game. I don't even care if they nerf reapers into the grounds, but watching this mass reaper style every game is very boring to watch. Obviously it's not Byun's fault that the game design team made many bad choices, if we were in his place we would also use all tools at our disposal. In the end they all want to win games and earn money.
On July 29 2017 16:33 Elentos wrote: The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
They should give reapers stim and remove grenade then.
And permanent cloak
They should unnerf Tempest back to 22 range.
While they are at it, the Colossus and adepts also need 22 range.
On July 29 2017 16:33 Elentos wrote: The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
They should give reapers stim and remove grenade then.
And permanent cloak
They should unnerf Tempest back to 22 range.
While they are at it, they should give the Colossus and adepts 22 range as well.
Liberators should be able to move faster than oracles while in seige mode and shoot and move, it's common sense
On July 29 2017 16:33 Elentos wrote: The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
They should give reapers stim and remove grenade then.
And permanent cloak
They should unnerf Tempest back to 22 range.
While they are at it, they should give the Colossus and adepts 22 range as well.
Liberators should be able to move faster than oracles while in seige mode and shoot and move, it's common sense
As long as all zerg units have 8 armors, including drones.
On July 29 2017 16:33 Elentos wrote: The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
They should give reapers stim and remove grenade then.
And permanent cloak
They should unnerf Tempest back to 22 range.
While they are at it, they should give the Colossus and adepts 22 range as well.
Liberators should be able to move faster than oracles while in seige mode and shoot and move, it's common sense
As long as all zerg units have 8 armors, including drones.
You guys really find reapers more abusive than say, the proxy photon overcharge rush?
I just don't get the hate on reapers, if you could just a move and cheese with em, it would make sense to me.
If you nerf the reaper, whats the point of the unit anymore? Seriously, it kills nothing but lingsand drones. If this were a TvT complaint it would make much more sense to me.
I couldn't stand invulnerable nydus all ins when they were all the rage..... you would see guys like TY cheeesed out by it all the time....
I think you guys should admit you just don't like BYUN, lol which is fine.... My thing is the players should be able to stop this.
You know people KEEP saying it's not BYUN reapers that are OP. They banned me cause I made a lot of post illustrating how sOO destroyed Marus reapers in GSL. But here he struggles vs Byuns reapers, but people still wanna make it about the REAPER, AND not BYUN
You don't see Innova doing it, do you nerf mech cause gumiho is a God with it? In fact, is it mech good, or is it just Gumiho Is a god with it? I watched Ryung crush Penguin with it twice, then somehow STILLNOT make it ti IEM.
People were crying about GSL vs the World, and gumiho gets knocked out by the Chinese zerg. Where was the unbeatable mech there? Yall still crying over Bullsshit man.....
On July 29 2017 16:33 Elentos wrote: The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
Blizzard "missing their original design goal and refusing to go back to the drawing board"? Haha. Hahahaha. No. That's never happened. Not once in the history of StarCraft 2 has that been the case. :D
But don't worry, at this rate we'll be getting yet another "rework" in about 18 months' time that will yet again ignore community suggestions in favour of some bizarre off-handed bandaid that still doesn't fix the fundamental problems.
By the way, I'm personally not that salty about Reapers as others are (though I obviously understand why they feel that way), it's just that I strongly agree with Elentos' post and this is easily one of SC2's biggest problems over the last 7 years, if not more if we're considering WoL's development as well.
We can criticize the Chinese IEM for some mistakes, but one thing they are doing well - the VODs from today are already availble at youtube. Such speed!!!
On July 29 2017 18:13 Aocowns wrote: just watched soo vs byun, just wanna pop by and say terran is stupid and imba
this is not the "letting of steam thread" you know?....
is there anything ppl DONT complain about? - first adepts, then sh, now the reaper?...seriously,..just ban all the units and make it "rock paper scissors -craft 2"...but i bet even then ppl will complain like " rock tooo stronk!!!"...jeez ppl..
On July 29 2017 18:13 Aocowns wrote: just watched soo vs byun, just wanna pop by and say terran is stupid and imba
this is not the "letting of steam thread" you know?....
is there anything ppl DONT complain about? - first adepts, then sh, now the reaper?...seriously,..just ban all the units and make it "rock paper scissors -craft 2"...but i bet even then ppl will complain like " rock tooo stronk!!!"...jeez ppl..
Please don't forget the imba carriers, the imba teleporting battlecruisers, and the imba ravens with their seeker missiles.
On July 29 2017 16:33 Elentos wrote: The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
Blizzard "missing their original design goal and refusing to go back to the drawing board"? Haha. Hahahaha. No. That's never happened. Not once in the history of StarCraft 2 has that been the case. :D
Yeah that's why Warhounds and HERCs are still in the game, right?
On July 29 2017 16:33 Elentos wrote: The most striking thing about the reaper grenade is really that they missed their original design goal - to give reapers more strength in the mid- and late game instead of having it just be used in the early game or for cheese - by a hundred miles but refused to go back to the drawing board.
Blizzard "missing their original design goal and refusing to go back to the drawing board"? Haha. Hahahaha. No. That's never happened. Not once in the history of StarCraft 2 has that been the case. :D
Yeah that's why Warhounds and HERCs are still in the game, right?
Well yeah they removed the most catastrophic ones, but all the insidious problems have remained. Good job cherry picking two of the very few examples of them scrapping ideas that would very clearly have crippled the game.
I mean I could literally just say "brood lord infestor for almost an entire year" and just win the argument, but there are way way more that may be slightly less obvious.
I actually second that. I wanna see how Rogue handles the reapers, esp since he's great with lings. He's apparently been number 1 on Korean ladder for awhile, if he smashes the reaper build, people need to stop complaining.
If you saw rogues games vs Marus at WESG qualifiers, you would swear on a stack of bibles the 2-1-1 was imba....
I'm still trying to figure out how you lose 30 drones to hellions, I guess we should nerf hellions too cause some zerg got smashed by a hellions opening...
On July 29 2017 20:04 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: I'm still trying to figure out how you lose 30 drones to hellions, I guess we should nerf hellions too cause some zerg got smashed by a hellions opening...
Unfortunately for you people are not strawmen and only complain about broken garbage like reapers.
On July 29 2017 20:04 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: I'm still trying to figure out how you lose 30 drones to hellions, I guess we should nerf hellions too cause some zerg got smashed by a hellions opening...
I will NEVER understand how some people watch an amazing tournament, with some of the best players in the world, and instead of enjoying the game, they come here to whine about balance / design / whatever..
Are you not able to enjoy anything? Just.. enjoy some entertainment without having to start with the snarky comments and the petty remarks.. ?
On July 30 2017 00:29 VHbb wrote: I will NEVER understand how some people watch an amazing tournament, with some of the best players in the world, and instead of enjoying the game, they come here to whine about balance / design / whatever..
Are you not able to enjoy anything? Just.. enjoy some entertainment without having to start with the snarky comments and the petty remarks.. ?
This so much. I swear.... any time a player of either race wins a battle in a match it's a flood of "omg X race so imba". And any time a player loses, everyone just starts saying the PRO player is BAD.
On July 29 2017 16:56 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: You guys really find reapers more abusive than say, the proxy photon overcharge rush?
I just don't get the hate on reapers, if you could just a move and cheese with em, it would make sense to me.
If you nerf the reaper, whats the point of the unit anymore? Seriously, it kills nothing but lingsand drones. If this were a TvT complaint it would make much more sense to me.
I couldn't stand invulnerable nydus all ins when they were all the rage..... you would see guys like TY cheeesed out by it all the time....
I think you guys should admit you just don't like BYUN, lol which is fine.... My thing is the players should be able to stop this.
You know people KEEP saying it's not BYUN reapers that are OP. They banned me cause I made a lot of post illustrating how sOO destroyed Marus reapers in GSL. But here he struggles vs Byuns reapers, but people still wanna make it about the REAPER, AND not BYUN
I gave up on convincing people with facts and numbers. I had a detailed post with aligulac records and numbers and percentages and people just ignored it and refused to look at the numbers.
And all the bs on uthermal kelazhur major blah blah blah.
Really? Out of all the players people claim to abuse reapers, Byun is the ONLY one that has won significant tournaments because of it.
In Europe, when we talk about the very best players, we have Elazer, Showtime, Nerchio, Snute, Serral. uThermal is nowhere near the conversation.
In America, most would recognize Neeb as the clear Top player with Major, Scarlett and Kelazhur close.
And come on, who won the last WCS? Elazer !! A Zerg !!
If reapers are really so breaking, Terrans should be winning everything !!
This isn't like gglord/winfestor. That was broken because zerg was winning everything with it at its peak !! Suddenly every top player in the scene at that time and up and comers were all zerg ! Those units were broken.
It is not like Terrans are winning everything with reapers. We don't even see foreigner terrans dominate the scene with it.
Sure they win some games against Zerg with it. But i have also seen Korean zergs completely shut it off when other terrans try it. Good example would be Maru. He just wasn't good enough at it.
I still stick to my point. It is not reapers which is OP. It is Byun. Some people are hating on it just because they don't like to see people win games with Micro. But guess what. A lot of people also enjoying seeing Micro skill instead of just Macro skills.
On July 30 2017 00:29 VHbb wrote: I will NEVER understand how some people watch an amazing tournament, with some of the best players in the world, and instead of enjoying the game, they come here to whine about balance / design / whatever..
Are you not able to enjoy anything? Just.. enjoy some entertainment without having to start with the snarky comments and the petty remarks.. ?
This so much. I swear.... any time a player of either race wins a battle in a match it's a flood of "omg X race so imba". And any time a player loses, everyone just starts saying the PRO player is BAD.
Can people just enjoy the games?
Thing is, whenever something is legit imbalanced, there are always comments like this. "just because someone lost to it doesn't mean it's imbalanced", "just enjoy the games"
No one's saying reapers need a nerf because soO lost to ByuN, its that its almost impossible for any zerg to trade cost efficiently against 3RR if controlled right.
On July 30 2017 00:29 VHbb wrote: I will NEVER understand how some people watch an amazing tournament, with some of the best players in the world, and instead of enjoying the game, they come here to whine about balance / design / whatever..
Are you not able to enjoy anything? Just.. enjoy some entertainment without having to start with the snarky comments and the petty remarks.. ?
This so much. I swear.... any time a player of either race wins a battle in a match it's a flood of "omg X race so imba". And any time a player loses, everyone just starts saying the PRO player is BAD.
Can people just enjoy the games?
Thing is, whenever something is legit imbalanced, there are always comments like this. "just because someone lost to it doesn't mean it's imbalanced", "just enjoy the games"
No one's saying reapers need a nerf because soO lost to ByuN, its that its almost impossible for any zerg to trade cost efficiently against 3RR if controlled right.
Fango, the problem with your argument is that most people will enter the conversation with their minds made up and take whatever 'evidence' they can find to fit the argument they want to make, and ignore the rest. If you're debating something is 'legit imbalanced', you have to have statistics or some way of backing your argument up.
It can't be that it simply 'seems' broken. Kaizor in the post above you, as well as many others have already brought the numbers into the mix, and it just does not seem to support the argument that this imbalance exists.
All this reaper whine and the only player that can pull it off consistently is Byun. Even when other top level players try it like Maru, he'll lose more than half the times he does. Let's just ignore that - reaper OP, reaper OP, reaper OP!
Is it fair that a unit is nerfed because ONE player is amazing at it? Should this happen everytime some player masters a particular unit?
All this whine is stupid. Instead of being amazed at how good byun is with reapers, people are crying the unit is OP when it clearly isn't if you look at average win rates across ALL players. Which is what you should be doing.
On July 29 2017 16:56 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: You guys really find reapers more abusive than say, the proxy photon overcharge rush?
I just don't get the hate on reapers, if you could just a move and cheese with em, it would make sense to me.
If you nerf the reaper, whats the point of the unit anymore? Seriously, it kills nothing but lingsand drones. If this were a TvT complaint it would make much more sense to me.
I couldn't stand invulnerable nydus all ins when they were all the rage..... you would see guys like TY cheeesed out by it all the time....
I think you guys should admit you just don't like BYUN, lol which is fine.... My thing is the players should be able to stop this.
You know people KEEP saying it's not BYUN reapers that are OP. They banned me cause I made a lot of post illustrating how sOO destroyed Marus reapers in GSL. But here he struggles vs Byuns reapers, but people still wanna make it about the REAPER, AND not BYUN
I gave up on convincing people with facts and numbers. I had a detailed post with aligulac records and numbers and percentages and people just ignored it and refused to look at the numbers.
And all the bs on uthermal kelazhur major blah blah blah.
Really? Out of all the players people claim to abuse reapers, Byun is the ONLY one that has won significant tournaments because of it.
In Europe, when we talk about the very best players, we have Elazer, Showtime, Nerchio, Snute, Serral. uThermal is nowhere near the conversation.
In America, most would recognize Neeb as the clear Top player with Major, Scarlett and Kelazhur close.
And come on, who won the last WCS? Elazer !! A Zerg !!
If reapers are really so breaking, Terrans should be winning everything !!
This isn't like gglord/winfestor. That was broken because zerg was winning everything with it at its peak !! Suddenly every top player in the scene at that time and up and comers were all zerg ! Those units were broken.
It is not like Terrans are winning everything with reapers. We don't even see foreigner terrans dominate the scene with it.
Sure they win some games against Zerg with it. But i have also seen Korean zergs completely shut it off when other terrans try it. Good example would be Maru. He just wasn't good enough at it.
I still stick to my point. It is not reapers which is OP. It is Byun. Some people are hating on it just because they don't like to see people win games with Micro. But guess what. A lot of people also enjoying seeing Micro skill instead of just Macro skills.
June 2017, out of 1546 games, TvZ win rate : 47.15%
May 2017, out of 1684 games, TvZ win rate : 47.15%
April 2017, out of 1597 games, TvZ win rate : 49.03%
March 2017, out of 1406 games, TvZ win rate : 48.08%
In fact you had to go back to Jan 2017 before Terrans had a over 50% win rate over Zergs.
But yeah, people would just ignore it. This is why people like trump become president.
great post
this is exactly why people like trump become president, people can watch 15-20 min long games where soo is up 50 supply, watch him crash like 40+ supply of banes into tanks/marauders and at the end say "darn those reapers to hell!!!"
On July 30 2017 00:29 VHbb wrote: I will NEVER understand how some people watch an amazing tournament, with some of the best players in the world, and instead of enjoying the game, they come here to whine about balance / design / whatever..
Are you not able to enjoy anything? Just.. enjoy some entertainment without having to start with the snarky comments and the petty remarks.. ?
This so much. I swear.... any time a player of either race wins a battle in a match it's a flood of "omg X race so imba". And any time a player loses, everyone just starts saying the PRO player is BAD.
Can people just enjoy the games?
Thing is, whenever something is legit imbalanced, there are always comments like this. "just because someone lost to it doesn't mean it's imbalanced", "just enjoy the games"
No one's saying reapers need a nerf because soO lost to ByuN, its that its almost impossible for any zerg to trade cost efficiently against 3RR if controlled right.
Fango, the problem with your argument is that most people will enter the conversation with their minds made up and take whatever 'evidence' they can find to fit the argument they want to make, and ignore the rest. If you're debating something is 'legit imbalanced', you have to have statistics or some way of backing your argument up.
It can't be that it simply 'seems' broken. Kaizor in the post above you, as well as many others have already brought the numbers into the mix, and it just does not seem to support the argument that this imbalance exists.
This exactly, everyone who is crying IMBA has no facts to prove their argument.
people just arent comfortable with being attacked until the skill difference between their opponent and themselves gets muddied by 3 bases of saturation
On July 30 2017 00:29 VHbb wrote: I will NEVER understand how some people watch an amazing tournament, with some of the best players in the world, and instead of enjoying the game, they come here to whine about balance / design / whatever..
Are you not able to enjoy anything? Just.. enjoy some entertainment without having to start with the snarky comments and the petty remarks.. ?
This so much. I swear.... any time a player of either race wins a battle in a match it's a flood of "omg X race so imba". And any time a player loses, everyone just starts saying the PRO player is BAD.
Can people just enjoy the games?
Thing is, whenever something is legit imbalanced, there are always comments like this. "just because someone lost to it doesn't mean it's imbalanced", "just enjoy the games"
No one's saying reapers need a nerf because soO lost to ByuN, its that its almost impossible for any zerg to trade cost efficiently against 3RR if controlled right.
Fango, the problem with your argument is that most people will enter the conversation with their minds made up and take whatever 'evidence' they can find to fit the argument they want to make, and ignore the rest. If you're debating something is 'legit imbalanced', you have to have statistics or some way of backing your argument up.
It can't be that it simply 'seems' broken. Kaizor in the post above you, as well as many others have already brought the numbers into the mix, and it just does not seem to support the argument that this imbalance exists.
I haven't gone through every TvZ and worked out the % that 3RR wins. Because obviously not every TvZ is 3RR. My point is that I have no clue how zergs are supposed to trade cost efficiently against in (if the reapers are controlled properly). I'm not saying it's as broken as BL/infestor, or blink stalker allins or anything like that
I have nothing against ByuN for doing it, because he's clearly better at it than standard TvZ. And I think that 3/5 RR should always be a viable proxy/cheese. I just think it's far too effective right now, and not risky enough. You can transition into a CC so easily even if the reapers are mostly shut down. Most people don't even consider it a cheese/allin anymore, just a viable opening.
Honestly, if I was the balance team I would simply reduce (or remove) the damage from the KD8 charge. It makes reapers too cost efficiant against lings. Increasing build time would mess up terran macro
On July 30 2017 03:38 Snijjer wrote:This exactly, everyone who is crying IMBA has no facts to prove their argument.
I actually play terran and open with 3RR against zerg, and proxy 3RR against terran (excluding maps where it isn't viable). Now ofc I'm not GM, and my games aren't an indicator of balance. I'm just saying people can call something out for being OP without it being due to salt