Guys where is the hype, wcs is going on. The best players all over the world have met in jönpöngköng and are playing to be crowned champion. GET IN HERE
On June 17 2017 22:13 The_Red_Viper wrote: Guys where is the hype, wcs is going on. The best players all over the world have met in jönpöngköng and are playing to be crowned champion. GET IN HERE
On June 17 2017 22:13 The_Red_Viper wrote: Guys where is the hype, wcs is going on. The best players all over the world have met in jönpöngköng and are playing to be crowned champion. GET IN HERE
On June 17 2017 22:13 The_Red_Viper wrote: Guys where is the hype, wcs is going on. The best players all over the world have met in jönpöngköng and are playing to be crowned champion. GET IN HERE
On June 18 2017 02:49 Fango wrote: Lol parasitic bomb is the most stressful spell to play against I swear. Even seeker missile can be avoid by 1Aing away.
Upgraded seeker missile can't be avoided in practice, parasidic bomb can be avoided mostly
Lilekanin making the HOTS mistake - going too many ravens over actual damaging units (thors/libs/bc) that can punch through the zerg army once you get enough ravens to protect them
On June 18 2017 02:57 Lyyna wrote: Lilekanin making the HOTS mistake - going too many ravens over actual damaging units (thors/libs/bc) that can punch through the zerg army once you get enough ravens to protect them
I thought his mistake was literally never leaving his base.
On June 18 2017 02:57 Lyyna wrote: Lilekanin making the HOTS mistake - going too many ravens over actual damaging units (thors/libs/bc) that can punch through the zerg army once you get enough ravens to protect them
I thought his mistake was literally never leaving his base.
Well the two are related. If you have a pure raven army, you can't rly move forward. If you have 10 thors, or 10 Bcs, supported by all these ravens, all of a sudden you can punch him in the face in his own base.
On June 18 2017 02:57 Lyyna wrote: Lilekanin making the HOTS mistake - going too many ravens over actual damaging units (thors/libs/bc) that can punch through the zerg army once you get enough ravens to protect them
I thought his mistake was literally never leaving his base.
with that turtle to mass raven style I think it's the best way to play. Just needs to be more cost-efficient
On June 18 2017 02:49 Fango wrote: Lol parasitic bomb is the most stressful spell to play against I swear. Even seeker missile can be avoid by 1Aing away.
Upgraded seeker missile can't be avoided in practice, parasidic bomb can be avoided mostly
Depends how close the ravens are. The issue with PB is that I'm used to 1Aing away air units when being targeting by stuff. If you get hit with PB and they clump up it's horrible.
On June 18 2017 03:17 Aeromi wrote: Wow Stephano cursing live on stream while it is not allowed according to the handbook.
there should be made exclusions especially for Steph
"You don't have to follow the rules if you are likable!"
Or Trump.
or likable and Trump
That sounds like an oxymoron
You don't become president if you're hated by all.
But anyway, the foreign scene are really dragged down by all the zergs. I can live with lower skill level than Korea but I sure as hell won't stay and watch a lot of ZvZ games.
I really wish TIME would stream when he's in Korea, I really like an up and coming player that is not European and who is willing to go abroad to get better.
On June 18 2017 04:18 Nakajin wrote: we got a Stephano-Sen game coming up, what year is this?
I still remember in some random online team league before Stephano broke out, Sen offraced him as protoss and still won. Then we later got the glorious Stephano Bratok series thanks to Sen
On June 18 2017 04:53 Solar424 wrote: One of TRUE and Scarlett not making it past day one is pretty inexcusable. I'd love to see how the seeding for this worked.
I believe the seeding was to try and have 3+ players of the same race in as many groups as possible
On June 18 2017 04:53 Solar424 wrote: One of TRUE and Scarlett not making it past day one is pretty inexcusable. I'd love to see how the seeding for this worked.
2 players from qualies and 2 from the open bracket in each stage 3 group
On June 18 2017 05:00 Fango wrote: If scarlett trained in Korea for months and even missed out on Austin, just to lose to True and Serral on day one of Jonkoping....
On June 18 2017 04:53 Solar424 wrote: One of TRUE and Scarlett not making it past day one is pretty inexcusable. I'd love to see how the seeding for this worked.
Did you see TRUE's glorious qualifier for this event?
On June 18 2017 05:00 Fango wrote: If scarlett trained in Korea for months and even missed out on Austin, just to lose to True and Serral on day one of Jonkoping....
Korea doesn't really have the best ZvZ practice, and the gods of luck screwing her over once again by putting two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament in her group didn't help much.
On June 18 2017 05:00 Fango wrote: If scarlett trained in Korea for months and even missed out on Austin, just to lose to True and Serral on day one of Jonkoping....
Korea doesn't really have the best ZvZ practice, and the gods of luck screwing her over once again by putting two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament in her group didn't help much.
this post starts with a pretty big reach and then goes to amazing lengths with "two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament" when describing a group that TRUE is a part of
On June 18 2017 05:00 Fango wrote: If scarlett trained in Korea for months and even missed out on Austin, just to lose to True and Serral on day one of Jonkoping....
Korea doesn't really have the best ZvZ practice, and the gods of luck screwing her over once again by putting two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament in her group didn't help much.
this post starts with a pretty big reach and then goes to amazing lengths with "two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament" when describing a group that TRUE is a part of
On June 18 2017 05:00 Fango wrote: If scarlett trained in Korea for months and even missed out on Austin, just to lose to True and Serral on day one of Jonkoping....
Korea doesn't really have the best ZvZ practice, and the gods of luck screwing her over once again by putting two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament in her group didn't help much.
this post starts with a pretty big reach and then goes to amazing lengths with "two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament" when describing a group that TRUE is a part of
TRUE is strong in early game ZvZ. He's just awful at the later stages
On June 18 2017 05:00 Fango wrote: If scarlett trained in Korea for months and even missed out on Austin, just to lose to True and Serral on day one of Jonkoping....
Korea doesn't really have the best ZvZ practice, and the gods of luck screwing her over once again by putting two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament in her group didn't help much.
Just because EU is 80% zerg doesn't mean Korean ZvZ is on a lower level. Solar Dark byuL soO rogue have all been near the top of the ladder recently. Apparently Life was even spotted up there
On June 18 2017 05:00 Fango wrote: If scarlett trained in Korea for months and even missed out on Austin, just to lose to True and Serral on day one of Jonkoping....
Korea doesn't really have the best ZvZ practice, and the gods of luck screwing her over once again by putting two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament in her group didn't help much.
this post starts with a pretty big reach and then goes to amazing lengths with "two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament" when describing a group that TRUE is a part of
TRUE is strong in early game ZvZ. He's just awful at the later stages
>TRUE is strong in early game ZvX. He's just awful at the later stages
On June 18 2017 05:00 Fango wrote: If scarlett trained in Korea for months and even missed out on Austin, just to lose to True and Serral on day one of Jonkoping....
Korea doesn't really have the best ZvZ practice, and the gods of luck screwing her over once again by putting two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament in her group didn't help much.
this post starts with a pretty big reach and then goes to amazing lengths with "two of the best ZvZ players in the tournament" when describing a group that TRUE is a part of
On June 18 2017 04:53 Solar424 wrote: One of TRUE and Scarlett not making it past day one is pretty inexcusable. I'd love to see how the seeding for this worked.
Having both the EU and NA qualifier winners in the same group as a start is just weird indeed.
On June 18 2017 05:40 Elentos wrote: I'm pretty sure the true reason Neeb cut through the Korean Zergs is because it was Rogue and Pet and not someone good
On June 18 2017 05:40 Elentos wrote: I'm pretty sure the true reason Neeb cut through the Korean Zergs is because it was Rogue and Pet and not someone good
On June 18 2017 05:40 Elentos wrote: I'm pretty sure the true reason Neeb cut through the Korean Zergs is because it was Rogue and Pet and not someone good
On June 18 2017 05:40 Elentos wrote: I'm pretty sure the true reason Neeb cut through the Korean Zergs is because it was Rogue and Pet and not someone good
On June 18 2017 05:59 Solar424 wrote: Kelazhur: If you build a Nexus I'll leave the game "Showtime has rebuilt their base and is no longer being revealed" Kelazhur: GG
Do you know where he got his minerals from? When Kelazhur wrote the message Showtime had 165 minerals.
On June 18 2017 05:59 Solar424 wrote: Kelazhur: If you build a Nexus I'll leave the game "Showtime has rebuilt their base and is no longer being revealed" Kelazhur: GG
Do you know where he got his minerals from? When Kelazhur wrote the message Showtime had 165 minerals.
Yeah I was confused as well and so was the guy casting on TaKeTV
On June 18 2017 05:59 Solar424 wrote: Kelazhur: If you build a Nexus I'll leave the game "Showtime has rebuilt their base and is no longer being revealed" Kelazhur: GG
Do you know where he got his minerals from? When Kelazhur wrote the message Showtime had 165 minerals.
he had his nexus already built but the message didn't show up yet.
On June 18 2017 05:59 Solar424 wrote: Kelazhur: If you build a Nexus I'll leave the game "Showtime has rebuilt their base and is no longer being revealed" Kelazhur: GG
Do you know where he got his minerals from? When Kelazhur wrote the message Showtime had 165 minerals.
he had his nexus already built but the message didn't show up yet.
i think he had ordered the command to build it, probe just hadn't arrived yet
On June 18 2017 05:59 Solar424 wrote: Kelazhur: If you build a Nexus I'll leave the game "Showtime has rebuilt their base and is no longer being revealed" Kelazhur: GG
Do you know where he got his minerals from? When Kelazhur wrote the message Showtime had 165 minerals.
he had his nexus already built but the message didn't show up yet.
i think he had ordered the command to build it, probe just hadn't arrived yet
On June 18 2017 05:59 Solar424 wrote: Kelazhur: If you build a Nexus I'll leave the game "Showtime has rebuilt their base and is no longer being revealed" Kelazhur: GG
Do you know where he got his minerals from? When Kelazhur wrote the message Showtime had 165 minerals.
he had his nexus already built but the message didn't show up yet.
i think he had ordered the command to build it, probe just hadn't arrived yet
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
pretty much. the only other relevant terrans beside uthermy went to overwatch and suck now when they tried to come back
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
pretty much. the only other relevant terrans beside uthermy went to overwatch and suck now when they tried to come back
And Neeb switched from terran to become a god.
Terran is just too weak for foreigners, or Zerg is too easy, you chose
I'm sure there is plenty of talented terran, but they took the wrong race
What is this world where two canadians, two mexicans, one brazilian and one american make it to the Ro16 ? That's way more american than what I was used to.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
pretty much. the only other relevant terrans beside uthermy went to overwatch and suck now when they tried to come back
And Neeb switched from terran to become a god.
Terran is just too weak for foreigners, or Zerg is too easy, you chose
I'm sure there is plenty of talented terran, but they took the wrong race
As Cou put it: "How the hell can you play a race in which worker builds buildings".
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Map pool is obviously good for Zergs. It's just sad that Kelazhur Showtime and uThermal were put in one group, while Namshar advanced by beating JonSnow.
On June 18 2017 06:20 Boucot wrote: What is this world where two canadians, two mexicans, one brazilian and one american make it to the Ro16 ? That's way more american than what I was used to.
Polt joined the military, France switched to Overwatch.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
pretty much. the only other relevant terrans beside uthermy went to overwatch and suck now when they tried to come back
And Neeb switched from terran to become a god.
Terran is just too weak for foreigners, or Zerg is too easy, you chose
I'm sure there is plenty of talented terran, but they took the wrong race
They have been looking up though. Major is playing sick recently
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
I'd hardly say Zerg is dominant in China and NA. Masa won NA Challenger for Valencia, Neeb won WCS Austin, and iAsonu and Scarlett have the best players in their regions for years, so it's not because of balance. Zerg has struggled in Korea since LotV came out, and Blizzard is balancing around the highest skill level. There's not some magic feature in the game that makes foreign Protoss and Terran players worse, there just are less of them.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
I'd hardly say Zerg is dominant in China and NA. Masa won NA Challenger for Valencia, Neeb won WCS Austin, and iAsonu and Scarlett have the best players in their regions for years, so it's not because of balance. Zerg has struggled in Korea since LotV came out, and Blizzard is balancing around the highest skill level. There's not some magic feature in the game that makes foreign Protoss and Terran players worse, there just are less of them.
I'm not talking about one tournamente here, another there, i'm talking about overall.
Ye zerg is struggling so hard in Korea since LoTV came out that they was at the two first place in 2016.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
???????????
the idea is zerg is easier to play but has a lower skill cap. At the top level zerg doesn't win but at lower levels it's dominant
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
I'd hardly say Zerg is dominant in China and NA. Masa won NA Challenger for Valencia, Neeb won WCS Austin, and iAsonu and Scarlett have the best players in their regions for years, so it's not because of balance. Zerg has struggled in Korea since LotV came out, and Blizzard is balancing around the highest skill level. There's not some magic feature in the game that makes foreign Protoss and Terran players worse, there just are less of them.
I'm not talking about one tournamente here, another there, i'm talking about overall.
Ye zerg is struggling so hard in Korea since LoTV came out that they was at the two first place in 2016.
Since LotV came out there have been one, zero, one, and two Zergs in the Ro8. The last time before last year a race was completely shut out of the Ro8 was in WoL. Dark and Solar were the only Zergs that made it to the Ro16 in the SSL last year; they both made the finals because they were better than everyone else. Stop saying that Zerg is an easy race when the best players can't win with it.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
???????????
it's quite clear that europeans have always been ahead in the meta and thus better players
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
???????????
It's all about skill cap, it's easier to reach a top lvl as zerg ( foreigners dont train as much as korean ), the progression curve is concave, but the T progression curve is """convex"""", there is way more potential in terran race, but you have to be a korean beast to deal with it
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
???????????
the idea is zerg is easier to play but has a lower skill cap. At the top level zerg doesn't win but at lower levels it's dominant
I call bullshit on that. Peak Life, peak Dark or peak soO have all shown that the skill cap for Zerg is incredibly high
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
I'd hardly say Zerg is dominant in China and NA. Masa won NA Challenger for Valencia, Neeb won WCS Austin, and iAsonu and Scarlett have the best players in their regions for years, so it's not because of balance. Zerg has struggled in Korea since LotV came out, and Blizzard is balancing around the highest skill level. There's not some magic feature in the game that makes foreign Protoss and Terran players worse, there just are less of them.
I'm not talking about one tournamente here, another there, i'm talking about overall.
Ye zerg is struggling so hard in Korea since LoTV came out that they was at the two first place in 2016.
In the first GSL of 2016, only one zerg made it to the Ro8, and none to the semifinals. In the second GSL of 2016, no zerg made it to the Ro8, and only 3 made it to the Ro16.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
???????????
the idea is zerg is easier to play but has a lower skill cap. At the top level zerg doesn't win but at lower levels it's dominant
I call bullshit on that. Peak Life, peak Dark or peak soO have all shown that the skill cap for Zerg is incredibly high
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
???????????
the idea is zerg is easier to play but has a lower skill cap. At the top level zerg doesn't win but at lower levels it's dominant
I call bullshit on that. Peak Life, peak Dark or peak soO have all shown that the skill cap for Zerg is incredibly high
all three of those go through times when they single handedly prevent buffs to zerg. that being said, inno/maru/ty/byun/alive/gumiho etc are doing insane. they shouldn't lose maps to any foreigner tbh. right now it's only soO for zerg.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
???????????
the idea is zerg is easier to play but has a lower skill cap. At the top level zerg doesn't win but at lower levels it's dominant
I call bullshit on that. Peak Life, peak Dark or peak soO have all shown that the skill cap for Zerg is incredibly high
Yes , we dont say there is no skill cap as zerg, but it's easier to reach a certain lvl.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
I'd hardly say Zerg is dominant in China and NA. Masa won NA Challenger for Valencia, Neeb won WCS Austin, and iAsonu and Scarlett have the best players in their regions for years, so it's not because of balance. Zerg has struggled in Korea since LotV came out, and Blizzard is balancing around the highest skill level. There's not some magic feature in the game that makes foreign Protoss and Terran players worse, there just are less of them.
I'm not talking about one tournamente here, another there, i'm talking about overall.
Ye zerg is struggling so hard in Korea since LoTV came out that they was at the two first place in 2016.
In the first GSL of 2016, only one zerg made it to the Ro8, and none to the semifinals. In the second GSL of 2016, no zerg made it to the Ro8, and only 3 made it to the Ro16.
Yes but they made it through SSL, an throughout the year they took more points, Solar and Dark was at the 2 and 1 place.
cure's fan does raise a good point. at lower-mid level zerg is easily better than terran and it's easier to win. at top level it's a lot harder. lingbane being a good example, even the best zergs will barely win with LB vs maru inno etc
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
???????????
the idea is zerg is easier to play but has a lower skill cap. At the top level zerg doesn't win but at lower levels it's dominant
I call bullshit on that. Peak Life, peak Dark or peak soO have all shown that the skill cap for Zerg is incredibly high
Yes , we dont say there is no skill cap as zerg, but it's easier to reach a certain lvl.
On June 18 2017 06:40 Fango wrote: in LoTV korean zerg has been awful, especially this year. soO seems to play perfect and that's it, vs like 5 or 6 top terrans
None of the top Terrans are perfect either. TY is weak against top Zergs, Inno is weak against top Terrans, Maru and ByuN haven't won any tournaments so far this year, aLive+Gumiho have great TvT but lesser TvP/TvZ.
This is true for every top player: Stats is weak against Protoss, Classic against Zerg, soO against Terran, Dark against Zerg, etc, etc.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
On June 18 2017 06:40 Fango wrote: in LoTV korean zerg has been awful, especially this year. soO seems to play perfect and that's it, vs like 5 or 6 top terrans
None of the top Terrans are perfect either. TY is weak against top Zergs, Inno is weak against top Terrans, Maru and ByuN haven't won any tournaments so far this year, aLive+Gumiho have great TvT but lesser TvP/TvZ.
This is true for every top player: Stats is weak against Protoss, Classic against Zerg, soO against Terran, Dark against Zerg, etc, etc.
The situation in Korea is basically inverse the situation outside of Korea. In Korea, there are a few AMAZING zergs which can be competitive at the very top, and then there's a lot of Terrans and Tosses, ranging from good to great. Outside of Korea, there are some REALLY good non-zergs at the very top (Neeb, Showtime, uThermal, Special, etc.) and then there's a big dropoff.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
Zerg is easier for foreigners but harder for koreans (since they underperform in korea)?
???????????
the idea is zerg is easier to play but has a lower skill cap. At the top level zerg doesn't win but at lower levels it's dominant
I call bullshit on that. Peak Life, peak Dark or peak soO have all shown that the skill cap for Zerg is incredibly high
Yes , we dont say there is no skill cap as zerg, but it's easier to reach a certain lvl.
To be honest if you can't kite slow banes with stimmed marines (that's what Inno does here, just in case), you really have no business being in running for a pro player imho.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule. Also, "silly" is overstating it. Loss, yes.
On June 18 2017 06:47 ZigguratOfUr wrote: Man, what happened to Showtime? Can't even blame it on the maps since they're actually pretty balanced in TvP.
You never know where you're gonna be when the slump hits you
On June 18 2017 06:40 Fango wrote: in LoTV korean zerg has been awful, especially this year. soO seems to play perfect and that's it, vs like 5 or 6 top terrans
None of the top Terrans are perfect either. TY is weak against top Zergs, Inno is weak against top Terrans, Maru and ByuN haven't won any tournaments so far this year, aLive+Gumiho have great TvT but lesser TvP/TvZ.
This is true for every top player: Stats is weak against Protoss, Classic against Zerg, soO against Terran, Dark against Zerg, etc, etc.
I don't been perfect like 100% winrate, only a few players have ever reached that level. I'm talking about which players have a good chance at winning a cup. soO is the only zerg I can see doing it right now (maybe Dark is guess but he's been lacking results). Inno, TY, maru, byun, alive, gumiho could all win a cup and no one would be suprised
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
look silly is an exaggeration, they could maybe go toe to toe with them but rarely did the KR terrans look outclassed
On June 18 2017 06:43 Fango wrote: cure's fan does raise a good point. at lower-mid level zerg is easily better than terran and it's easier to win. at top level it's a lot harder. lingbane being a good example, even the best zergs will barely win with LB vs maru inno etc
Wouldn't that be a case of Terran rewarding skill more than Zerg, rather than Zerg being easier?
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
On June 18 2017 06:40 Fango wrote: in LoTV korean zerg has been awful, especially this year. soO seems to play perfect and that's it, vs like 5 or 6 top terrans
None of the top Terrans are perfect either. TY is weak against top Zergs, Inno is weak against top Terrans, Maru and ByuN haven't won any tournaments so far this year, aLive+Gumiho have great TvT but lesser TvP/TvZ.
This is true for every top player: Stats is weak against Protoss, Classic against Zerg, soO against Terran, Dark against Zerg, etc, etc.
Only Cure is perfect against all races.
I agree but Cure isnt a random top player like Classic is, he is the GOAT
the ZvZs could go either way. Neeb should beat sortof but his PvZ is questionable. neeb should be the only contest to major getting the final. assuming kela's TvT is as shaky as earlier
On June 18 2017 06:40 Fango wrote: in LoTV korean zerg has been awful, especially this year. soO seems to play perfect and that's it, vs like 5 or 6 top terrans
None of the top Terrans are perfect either. TY is weak against top Zergs, Inno is weak against top Terrans, Maru and ByuN haven't won any tournaments so far this year, aLive+Gumiho have great TvT but lesser TvP/TvZ.
This is true for every top player: Stats is weak against Protoss, Classic against Zerg, soO against Terran, Dark against Zerg, etc, etc.
Only Cure is perfect against all races.
if you don't play any games you can't lose to other races. cure ahead of the meta. keep hating
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
But now we have to wait GSL vs World ( if it's a competitive tournament ) to see if it's still the same after 10 month without kespa team ( except JA )
PvZ is rather balanced now, its not the problem. You have only 4 good protoss players in the west namely Neeb, Showtime, Harstem and Ptitdrogo. 2 of them have been eliminated by terrans. The problem is with ZvT and PvT. There are no Terrans in the west that are really very highly skilled, nevertheless we could mention Major, Kelazhur, uThermal, Heromarine, Masa as being top tier. 2 of them didnt even bother to come. Major, Kelazhur and uThermal will wipe the floor and get another free win unless a miracle happens.
On June 18 2017 06:40 Fango wrote: in LoTV korean zerg has been awful, especially this year. soO seems to play perfect and that's it, vs like 5 or 6 top terrans
None of the top Terrans are perfect either. TY is weak against top Zergs, Inno is weak against top Terrans, Maru and ByuN haven't won any tournaments so far this year, aLive+Gumiho have great TvT but lesser TvP/TvZ.
This is true for every top player: Stats is weak against Protoss, Classic against Zerg, soO against Terran, Dark against Zerg, etc, etc.
I don't been perfect like 100% winrate, only a few players have ever reached that level. I'm talking about which players have a good chance at winning a cup. soO is the only zerg I can see doing it right now (maybe Dark is guess but he's been lacking results). Inno, TY, maru, byun, alive, gumiho could all win a cup and no one would be suprised
I don't mean invincible. I mean that even the best players (Terran or otherwise) have preferred MUs and weak MUs, and thus can (and do) get sniped by non-top players. Exhibit A: Gumiho.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this.
On June 18 2017 06:53 Kafka777 wrote: PvZ is rather balanced now, its not the problem. You have only 4 good protoss players in the west namely Neeb, Showtime, Harstem and Ptitdrogo. 2 of them have been eliminated by terrans. The problem is with ZvT and PvT. There are no Terrans in the west that are really very highly skilled, nevertheless we could mention Major, Kelazhur, uThermal, Heromarine, Masa as being top tier. 2 of them didnt even bother to come. Major, Kelazhur and uThermal will wipe the floor and get another free win unless a miracle happens.
PvZ itself may be balanced, but the map pool is pretty good for zerg atm.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this. https://youtu.be/qDlWuxOy5J8?t=602
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this. https://youtu.be/qDlWuxOy5J8?t=602
still lost to Bomber
Who then won the tournament, sweeping Jaedong in the finals. Scarlett at least took 2 games off him.
I think something is wrong with the bracket. As far as I know the 2 people who were in the same group can't meet each other up until the finals. But in the bracket Serral can meet Scarlett in the semis, Major can meet Snute in the semis, Nerchio and Semper, the same...
On June 18 2017 06:59 bulya wrote: I think something is wrong with the bracket. As far as I know the 2 people who were in the same group can't meet each other up until the finals. But in the bracket Serral can meet Scarlett in the semis, Major can meet Snute in the semis, Nerchio and Semper, the same...
This happened in Austin too with multiple players having a chance to meet each other in the playoffs before the final and Steisjo confirmed that there is no mistake. So I assume they do not care about that rule here.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this. https://youtu.be/qDlWuxOy5J8?t=602
still lost to Bomber
Who then won the tournament, sweeping Jaedong in the finals. Scarlett at least took 2 games off him.
2 games in a Bo5. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.
Sure, beating Maru was very impressive. But I specifically mentioned flukes vs consistency earlier, and Scarlett is not the latter.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this. https://youtu.be/qDlWuxOy5J8?t=602
still lost to Bomber
Who then won the tournament, sweeping Jaedong in the finals. Scarlett at least took 2 games off him.
not saying she wasn't good but it isn't true that she easily beat every korean terran.
On June 18 2017 06:53 Kafka777 wrote: PvZ is rather balanced now, its not the problem. You have only 4 good protoss players in the west namely Neeb, Showtime, Harstem and Ptitdrogo. 2 of them have been eliminated by terrans. The problem is with ZvT and PvT. There are no Terrans in the west that are really very highly skilled, nevertheless we could mention Major, Kelazhur, uThermal, Heromarine, Masa as being top tier. 2 of them didnt even bother to come. Major, Kelazhur and uThermal will wipe the floor and get another free win unless a miracle happens.
PvZ itself may be balanced, but the map pool is pretty good for zerg atm.
I'd argue that PvZ is currently slightly zerg favoured due to how good ling/bane/hydra is at the moment. But yeah the current WCS map pool is insanely zerg favoured (in PvZ that is. For TvZ it isn't too bad either way--terran has some very good maps like Blood Boil, but the median map seems a bit worse due to lack of drop space).
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this. https://youtu.be/qDlWuxOy5J8?t=602
Yh that's the one. Problem is when you look at them overall Maru and Scarlett just aren't on the same level. Still shows that a foreigner in amazing form can beat koreans that aren't
On June 18 2017 07:10 Shellshock wrote: looks like Special 4-2 Serral finals imo
tbh Special should have gone to the finals over Neeb at Austin. He was better in the macro game just needed to sort his defence vs adept allins.
This plus I'm kind of eh on Neeb's recent showings. I mean maybe he'll play lights out the last day but he seems vulnerable right now. lower bracket seems like Special's for the taking
On June 18 2017 07:10 Shellshock wrote: looks like Special 4-2 Serral finals imo
tbh Special should have gone to the finals over Neeb at Austin. He was better in the macro game just needed to sort his defence vs adept allins.
This plus I'm kind of eh on Neeb's recent showings. I mean maybe he'll play lights out the last day but he seems vulnerable right now. lower bracket seems like Special's for the taking
what's his TvT like tho? uthermy and kela are up and down
On June 18 2017 07:10 Shellshock wrote: looks like Special 4-2 Serral finals imo
tbh Special should have gone to the finals over Neeb at Austin. He was better in the macro game just needed to sort his defence vs adept allins.
This plus I'm kind of eh on Neeb's recent showings. I mean maybe he'll play lights out the last day but he seems vulnerable right now. lower bracket seems like Special's for the taking
MajOr the first foreign Terran at Blizzcon!? The hype is real. But I don't know how his TvT stacks up against uThermal/Kelazhur.
Wait, I remember Kela mentioning in an interview a couple hours ago that he and MajOr were tied in historical record.
On June 18 2017 07:10 Shellshock wrote: looks like Special 4-2 Serral finals imo
If Serral brings there his true skill he will be in the finals, but there are way more experienced players in his half like Snute, Nerchio, Scarlett, and even Stephano who he will play first.
If he will play to his form he will be in the finals, but a tournament is not another ladder game, so we'll see.
In the lower half, Major is one of the favorites, but don't count down Neeb, Uthermal, or even Kelazhur.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this. https://youtu.be/qDlWuxOy5J8?t=602
Yh that's the one. Problem is when you look at them overall Maru and Scarlett just aren't on the same level. Still shows that a foreigner in amazing form can beat koreans that aren't
Maru had won OSL literally 2 weeks before, I don't see how that isn't good form.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this. https://youtu.be/qDlWuxOy5J8?t=602
Yh that's the one. Problem is when you look at them overall Maru and Scarlett just aren't on the same level. Still shows that a foreigner in amazing form can beat koreans that aren't
Maru had won OSL literally 2 weeks before, I don't see how that isn't good form.
Form is temporary but class is permanent or something
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this. https://youtu.be/qDlWuxOy5J8?t=602
Yh that's the one. Problem is when you look at them overall Maru and Scarlett just aren't on the same level. Still shows that a foreigner in amazing form can beat koreans that aren't
Maru had won OSL literally 2 weeks before, I don't see how that isn't good form.
yeah but he was like 15 years old playing one of the first times overseas. Considering he also lost to aLive I think it's safe to say he wasn't playing at his full strength.
edit: now that I looked it up Scarlett also lost to aLive. so much to she beat every korean terran easily.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this. https://youtu.be/qDlWuxOy5J8?t=602
Yh that's the one. Problem is when you look at them overall Maru and Scarlett just aren't on the same level. Still shows that a foreigner in amazing form can beat koreans that aren't
Maru had won OSL literally 2 weeks before, I don't see how that isn't good form.
Yes and he looked like the player that would get kicked out in Ro32 of that OSL during S2 finals.
On June 18 2017 07:16 Charoisaur wrote: MajOr gets overhyped just because he's in korea. he isn't on the level of other top foreigners.
you didn't watch Austin?. He was on track to go to the finals then until Neeb's adept allins took him out. In the macro game he was miles ahead of Neeb or Serral. the so called best of their races.
There is the special consideration that has to be given to the particular matchup of KR Terran vs Foreign Protoss/Zerg, which almost always results in the KR Terran delivering a laughably onesided curbstomp. This is due to the fact that the typical Foreign Terrans that Foreign Protoss/Zerg players practice with are far inferior to KR Terrans, meaning that Foreigners will always be unprepared and inexperienced against KR Terrans.
Peak Stephano and peak Scarlett especially were capable of making even the best Korean Terrans look silly.
Note that I said "almost always." There have been exceptions.
But no foreigner has ever been able to contest top KR Terrans with any level of consistency. A fluke here or a fluke there, sure, but that's the exception that proves the rule.
hey that one time scarlett rekt maru in some cup that was a big talking point. nerchio beat KR terrans in bo1s in one episode of shoutcraft etc.
and then there's wesg....
Here's a vod from 2013. Maru had just won the OSL after sweeping Innovation, who most people considered to be the best Terran in the world, in the semi finals. Scarlett just crushes him with Muta/Ling/Bane. Pretty much every ZvT she played back then was like this. https://youtu.be/qDlWuxOy5J8?t=602
Yh that's the one. Problem is when you look at them overall Maru and Scarlett just aren't on the same level. Still shows that a foreigner in amazing form can beat koreans that aren't
Maru had won OSL literally 2 weeks before, I don't see how that isn't good form.
You have to watch his perfomance there to really see it, he wasn't playing on a starleague champion level. Understandable considering it was one of his first foreign events and he probably took a break after OSL. Plus as someone else said he was very young at the time
edit: losing in ro16 0-2 to scarlett and 0-2 to alive to be precise. yh not exactly good form
On June 18 2017 07:28 Fango wrote: Am I the only one that doesn't care for the bracket purely because ZvZ is the worst matchup to be a final
Nope, I wouldn't blame DH if they really did rig the bracket to prevent a ZvZ finals. Won't even bother watching the ZvZ matches in the Ro16. MU is too cancer.
On June 18 2017 07:42 temporary1 wrote: Looks like ZvT/TvZ/TvT/ZvZ final, after so many of top players gone. Gratz to Neeb and Drogo though, going that far with p protoss is formidable.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
I'd hardly say Zerg is dominant in China and NA. Masa won NA Challenger for Valencia, Neeb won WCS Austin, and iAsonu and Scarlett have the best players in their regions for years, so it's not because of balance. Zerg has struggled in Korea since LotV came out, and Blizzard is balancing around the highest skill level. There's not some magic feature in the game that makes foreign Protoss and Terran players worse, there just are less of them.
I'm not talking about one tournamente here, another there, i'm talking about overall.
Ye zerg is struggling so hard in Korea since LoTV came out that they was at the two first place in 2016.
3, Dark won 1 SSL and 1 Cross Final, Solar won 1 SSL, Solar vs Dark in the second SSL and Cross Final the other Cross final was won by Stats 1 GSL win for Byun 1 GSL win for Zest IEM Gyeonggi won by Inno so basically 3 Z wins, 2 P Wins, and 2 T wins who the fuk said Zerg was struggling in Korea since LOTV
more like Z is struggling in 2017 based on how many Z wins there are: 0 Currently 2 P wins and 1 T Win (SSL Challenger doesn't count)
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
I'd hardly say Zerg is dominant in China and NA. Masa won NA Challenger for Valencia, Neeb won WCS Austin, and iAsonu and Scarlett have the best players in their regions for years, so it's not because of balance. Zerg has struggled in Korea since LotV came out, and Blizzard is balancing around the highest skill level. There's not some magic feature in the game that makes foreign Protoss and Terran players worse, there just are less of them.
I'm not talking about one tournamente here, another there, i'm talking about overall.
Ye zerg is struggling so hard in Korea since LoTV came out that they was at the two first place in 2016.
3, Dark won 1 SSL and 1 Cross Final, Solar won 1 SSL, Solar vs Dark in the second SSL and Cross Final the other Cross final was won by Stats 1 GSL win for Byun 1 GSL win for Zest IEM Gyeonggi won by Inno so basically 3 Z wins, 2 P Wins, and 2 T wins who the fuk said Zerg was struggling in Korea since LOTV
Firstly cross finals means nothing. And secondly I suggest you take a look at the WCS standings from 2016. 2 zergs in the top 16 korea. Solar and Dark were the only zergs relevent in any tournament for the whole year.....
2017 is an improvement with soO and byuL returning to form but still. The only zerg we talk about being ontop is soO. Compared with 5 or 6 terrans and 2 or 3 protosses.
On June 18 2017 06:10 Soke wrote: 7 Zergs guaranteed through because of 80% winrate in challenger/groupstage 1 and 2, 10 total through. Balance kinda made this guaranteed
Right, because Spacemarine and Hades are way better than Snute and Bly.
Ye because there is only good zerg in europe since WoL and bad terrans ?
Foreign Terrans have always been bad aside from a select few. Stop trying to pretend that Zerg is suddenly unbeatable.
Since WoL = suddenly ?
Zerg is easier that's why they are dominant in CN/NA/EU
I'd hardly say Zerg is dominant in China and NA. Masa won NA Challenger for Valencia, Neeb won WCS Austin, and iAsonu and Scarlett have the best players in their regions for years, so it's not because of balance. Zerg has struggled in Korea since LotV came out, and Blizzard is balancing around the highest skill level. There's not some magic feature in the game that makes foreign Protoss and Terran players worse, there just are less of them.
I'm not talking about one tournamente here, another there, i'm talking about overall.
Ye zerg is struggling so hard in Korea since LoTV came out that they was at the two first place in 2016.
3, Dark won 1 SSL and 1 Cross Final, Solar won 1 SSL, Solar vs Dark in the second SSL and Cross Final the other Cross final was won by Stats 1 GSL win for Byun 1 GSL win for Zest IEM Gyeonggi won by Inno so basically 3 Z wins, 2 P Wins, and 2 T wins who the fuk said Zerg was struggling in Korea since LOTV
Firstly cross finals means nothing. And secondly I suggest you take a look at the WCS standings from 2016. 2 zergs in the top 16 korea. Solar and Dark were the only zergs relevent in any tournament for the whole year.....
2017 is an improvement with soO and byuL returning to form but still. The only zerg we talk about being ontop is soO. Compared with 5 or 6 terrans and 2 or 3 protosses.
that's a stupid argument, those 2 top 16 zergs are also the 2 highest in points over anyone, Dark took so many points lol, most of the other P's and T's have like very low points yet 1 of the only 2 Korean zergs and 1 of the only 2 Korean terrans in the Global finals made it all the way to the finals. Zest won 1 GSL then fell in a major slump and almost no other Protoss picked up after him, sOs had a miracle run that meant nothing in the end cuz he got mauled by Byun in the finals and Stats hasn't reached god-like levels like he did in 2017 yet. out of the Top 16 in Korea only Byun, TY, Zest (in early 2016), Stats, Dark and Solar were relevant, they were the only ones 'doing well' in Korea and that's why they are the top in Korea, no one performed close to them. Out of the 6 that I have listed all 6 of them were in the finals of one premier tournament before Blizzcon and 5 of them won a Starleague or Crossfinal TY was a GSL finalist, Dark and Solar won SSL, Stats and Dark won Cross Final, Zest and Byun won GSL.
Wow, foreign Zerg > Korean Zerg ? Really ? Tell me any foreign Zerg that is better than Dark, Soo, ByuL ? I only saw Dark stomped any foreigners he played every single time, and he is not even top 1 Korean Zerg atm.
Serral got easy highway to final, his zvz is amazing if nothing changed. Also same story for uThermal, he is already in 1/2 at least. Major vs Neeb is coming and it will be best quater.
Wow, foreign Zerg > Korean Zerg ? Really ? Tell me any foreign Zerg that is better than Dark, Soo, ByuL ? I only saw Dark stomped any foreigners he played every single time, and he is not even top 1 Korean Zerg atm.
I didn't say i agreed with it, nut that's what I'm getting from this thread
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