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Canada2764 Posts
On April 30 2017 11:51 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 11:50 Soularion wrote:On April 30 2017 11:49 pvsnp wrote:Who would you consider the top 5 best TvT players of ~2012-2014?
TaeJa, Mvp, INnoVation (he was insane with hellbat drops), Flash, MMA. In no particular order. TaeJa vs INnoVation on Newkirk is still the best game of Starcraft II, ever. Inno vs Mvp was a super sick series too. Flash, MMA, TaeJa and Mvp are all retired. INnoVation was never all that good outside of the hellbat era. The old TvTers are gone, and that's left a bit of a void where everything is scrappy and odd. well I mean if you want to get to the really old good TvTers Gumigod, Ryung, and aLive are having a resurgence
That's my point, though. With the combination of mechanics and TvT knowledge gone, you're left with people who either have the mechanical ability but not the matchup skill (Maru, INnoVation, TY, etc.) or the matchup skill but not as much mechanical ability (Ryung, GuMiho, aLive, etc.) making it seem as though there isn't a 'top tier' of TvT.
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There's also the question of whether building colossi arcs and a-moving is strategic.
War of the Worlds was reasonably entertaining though.
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United States97277 Posts
On April 30 2017 12:00 Soularion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 11:51 Shellshock wrote:On April 30 2017 11:50 Soularion wrote:On April 30 2017 11:49 pvsnp wrote:Who would you consider the top 5 best TvT players of ~2012-2014?
TaeJa, Mvp, INnoVation (he was insane with hellbat drops), Flash, MMA. In no particular order. TaeJa vs INnoVation on Newkirk is still the best game of Starcraft II, ever. Inno vs Mvp was a super sick series too. Flash, MMA, TaeJa and Mvp are all retired. INnoVation was never all that good outside of the hellbat era. The old TvTers are gone, and that's left a bit of a void where everything is scrappy and odd. well I mean if you want to get to the really old good TvTers Gumigod, Ryung, and aLive are having a resurgence That's my point, though. With the combination of mechanics and TvT knowledge gone, you're left with people who either have the mechanical ability but not the matchup skill (Maru, INnoVation, TY, etc.) or the matchup skill but not as much mechanical ability (Ryung, GuMiho, aLive, etc.) making it seem as though there isn't a 'top tier' of TvT.
that's fair it seems pretty fluid right now
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On April 30 2017 11:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 11:57 breaker1328 wrote:On April 30 2017 11:51 Fango wrote:
Boring yet strategic PvP > action-packed yet frustrating PvP I would prefer to play the former and watch the latter. There's also the question of whether building colossi arcs and a-moving is strategic.
The strategy is to not lose them, and use them to win the game. :D
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On April 30 2017 12:02 intotheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 11:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On April 30 2017 11:57 breaker1328 wrote:On April 30 2017 11:51 Fango wrote:
Boring yet strategic PvP > action-packed yet frustrating PvP I would prefer to play the former and watch the latter. There's also the question of whether building colossi arcs and a-moving is strategic. The strategy is to not lose them, and use them to win the game. :D
Im not sure i understand, please explain this deep strategy more
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Im not sure i understand, please explain this deep strategy more
Don't derp. 
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On April 30 2017 11:56 intotheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 11:54 D-light wrote:
Awesome run of winning against Namshar, Pilipili and Probe. Yup. I'd be happy to beat those guys 
I mean all of us scrubs here would be, but not the toughest trio compared to quite a few players in the tournament.
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On April 30 2017 11:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 11:57 breaker1328 wrote:On April 30 2017 11:51 Fango wrote:
Boring yet strategic PvP > action-packed yet frustrating PvP I would prefer to play the former and watch the latter. There's also the question of whether building colossi arcs and a-moving is strategic.
HoTS PvP was almost all strategy and position based, with good control and build order luck giving advantages to either side.
Hell of a lot better than "both players press the same button and no one knows whose gonna win" barely matters how good a player is strategically.a
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On April 30 2017 12:00 Soularion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 11:51 Shellshock wrote:On April 30 2017 11:50 Soularion wrote:On April 30 2017 11:49 pvsnp wrote:Who would you consider the top 5 best TvT players of ~2012-2014?
TaeJa, Mvp, INnoVation (he was insane with hellbat drops), Flash, MMA. In no particular order. TaeJa vs INnoVation on Newkirk is still the best game of Starcraft II, ever. Inno vs Mvp was a super sick series too. Flash, MMA, TaeJa and Mvp are all retired. INnoVation was never all that good outside of the hellbat era. The old TvTers are gone, and that's left a bit of a void where everything is scrappy and odd. well I mean if you want to get to the really old good TvTers Gumigod, Ryung, and aLive are having a resurgence That's my point, though. With the combination of mechanics and TvT knowledge gone, you're left with people who either have the mechanical ability but not the matchup skill (Maru, INnoVation, TY, etc.) or the matchup skill but not as much mechanical ability (Ryung, GuMiho, aLive, etc.) making it seem as though there isn't a 'top tier' of TvT.
Doom drops make TvT feel really swingy though, even with tankivacs removed from the game. Nerfing doom drops might help the top tier of TvT define itself. The real question is whether Maru would be part of that 'top tier', since his TvT relies so heavily upon it.
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On April 30 2017 12:04 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 11:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On April 30 2017 11:57 breaker1328 wrote:On April 30 2017 11:51 Fango wrote:
Boring yet strategic PvP > action-packed yet frustrating PvP I would prefer to play the former and watch the latter. There's also the question of whether building colossi arcs and a-moving is strategic. HoTS PvP was almost all strategic and position based, with good control and build order luck giving advantages to either side. Hell of a lot better than "both players press the same button and no one knows whose gonna win" barely matters how good a player is strategically.a
Idk about that, Neeb flanks with disrupters more and is better at not clumping them so they all get hit, not really random
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On April 30 2017 12:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 12:00 Soularion wrote:On April 30 2017 11:51 Shellshock wrote:On April 30 2017 11:50 Soularion wrote:On April 30 2017 11:49 pvsnp wrote:Who would you consider the top 5 best TvT players of ~2012-2014?
TaeJa, Mvp, INnoVation (he was insane with hellbat drops), Flash, MMA. In no particular order. TaeJa vs INnoVation on Newkirk is still the best game of Starcraft II, ever. Inno vs Mvp was a super sick series too. Flash, MMA, TaeJa and Mvp are all retired. INnoVation was never all that good outside of the hellbat era. The old TvTers are gone, and that's left a bit of a void where everything is scrappy and odd. well I mean if you want to get to the really old good TvTers Gumigod, Ryung, and aLive are having a resurgence That's my point, though. With the combination of mechanics and TvT knowledge gone, you're left with people who either have the mechanical ability but not the matchup skill (Maru, INnoVation, TY, etc.) or the matchup skill but not as much mechanical ability (Ryung, GuMiho, aLive, etc.) making it seem as though there isn't a 'top tier' of TvT. Doom drops make TvT feel really swingy though, even with tankivacs removed from the game. Nerfing doom drops might help the top tier of TvT define itself. The real question is whether Maru would be part of that 'top tier', since his TvT relies so heavily upon it.
You can nerf doomdrops and Maru would still commit 90% of his army to drops
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United States97277 Posts
Kelazhur actually beat Nerchio the last time they played in a tournament... a year ago in ASL prime league on NA server 
first offline event meeting
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On April 30 2017 12:03 pvsnp wrote:Don't derp.
Basically just do the least shitty things.
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Im on the Kelthuzad bandwagon ever since Maynarde used Kelthuzad, blockbuster and tvz in the same sentence earlier today.
GO BRAZIL!
(thx BaseTrade for setting up that team house btw great move. Someday your patronage of SC2 will be recognized... someday)
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On April 30 2017 12:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 12:00 Soularion wrote:On April 30 2017 11:51 Shellshock wrote:On April 30 2017 11:50 Soularion wrote:On April 30 2017 11:49 pvsnp wrote:Who would you consider the top 5 best TvT players of ~2012-2014?
TaeJa, Mvp, INnoVation (he was insane with hellbat drops), Flash, MMA. In no particular order. TaeJa vs INnoVation on Newkirk is still the best game of Starcraft II, ever. Inno vs Mvp was a super sick series too. Flash, MMA, TaeJa and Mvp are all retired. INnoVation was never all that good outside of the hellbat era. The old TvTers are gone, and that's left a bit of a void where everything is scrappy and odd. well I mean if you want to get to the really old good TvTers Gumigod, Ryung, and aLive are having a resurgence That's my point, though. With the combination of mechanics and TvT knowledge gone, you're left with people who either have the mechanical ability but not the matchup skill (Maru, INnoVation, TY, etc.) or the matchup skill but not as much mechanical ability (Ryung, GuMiho, aLive, etc.) making it seem as though there isn't a 'top tier' of TvT. Doom drops make TvT feel really swingy though, even with tankivacs removed from the game. Nerfing doom drops might help the top tier of TvT define itself. The real question is whether Maru would be part of that 'top tier', since his TvT relies so heavily upon it.
It was actually easier to defend doom drops with tankivacs
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On April 30 2017 12:05 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:
Im on the Kelthuzad bandwagon ever since Maynarde used Kelthuzad, blockbuster and tvz in the same sentence earlier today.
GO BRAZIL!
(thx BaseTrade for setting up that team house btw great move. Someday your patronage of SC2 will be recognized... someday)
What a sentence that must've been.
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Please have mercy Godchio and slay that terran fast so I, a withering worm, unworthy of looking at Your Majestic Play can go to sleep.
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Wait, no True vs Cham?
Was played off the main stage, I think Basetrade streamed it?
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On April 30 2017 12:04 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2017 11:59 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On April 30 2017 11:57 breaker1328 wrote:On April 30 2017 11:51 Fango wrote:
Boring yet strategic PvP > action-packed yet frustrating PvP I would prefer to play the former and watch the latter. There's also the question of whether building colossi arcs and a-moving is strategic. HoTS PvP was almost all strategy and position based, with good control and build order luck giving advantages to either side. Hell of a lot better than "both players press the same button and no one knows whose gonna win" barely matters how good a player is strategically.a
Getting caught with a bad arc would cause players to lose games outright with not even the chance of recovery that disruptors afford.
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EPT
