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On August 11 2016 04:36 opisska wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 04:32 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 11 2016 04:25 opisska wrote:On August 11 2016 04:18 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 11 2016 04:02 opisska wrote:
Depends really on your metric. It wasn't a game to study the fine details of highlevel play, that is for sure. But it was enormously hype and nailbiting. And honestly the final shitstorm was an interesting example of how you can get too cocky and die for it and it was quite the comeback - yes, even when the play is not perfect, making less mistakes than your opponent is a comeback.
Since foreigners don't play koreans anymore, I rarely feel invested into the outcome of a game, but there I was really cheering for Taeja to make it back from the grave and it was really fun. I would expect the rating system to be as objective as possible. That means that i vote reasonably even if my favorite player wins/loses. A good game isn't depending on which player i cheer for. I guess people disagree with this though and i think it's faulty  Just to be clear, I would consider it good even if Taeja lost. I am just saying that the significance of the game added to the enjoyment and it's hard to deny such significance. I am even a long-standing (albeit apparently not very reknown) "Taeja hater" and have always loudly criticized the infamous GOAT ranking. Nevertheless, even I admit that the circumstances of the game were extraordinary. And it was absurdly back-and-forth on top of that. In general, most of the memorable games I ever liked were not perfect showcases of great play. I like nonstandard situations and if there are mistakes, then so be it. I think you you being overly critical to the game is also based on who was playing - the butchery of the lead was so much more painful when it was executed by Zest. Don't get me wrong here, i don't think it was a bad game. I too think that these weird games are oftentimes more exciting and enjoyable than a perfectly executed allin or something like that. I simply think that this: Poll: Recommend Losers Match Game 3Excellent Game (76) 92% Bad Game (4) 5% Good Game (2) 2% Meh Game (1) 1% 83 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers Match Game 3 (Vote): Excellent Game
(Vote): Good Game
(Vote): Meh Game
(Vote): Bad Game
was kinda unreasonable and 100% wouldn't have been like this if two lesser known players would have played the same exact game. Even if Zest wins it there is no way this would have been even remotely close to this. Is it the biggest deal? No. But i noticed that these polls become more and more meaningless if you just wanna have a somewhat objective opinion, not just today but in general. But what is objective measure of goodness of a game? This is meant to be entertainment, the only real measure is how entertained people are and here apparently, the answer is very. The rest is just a matter of personal taste. You can probably devise a well-researched scientific scale ... but then I would just like to refer you back to the very GOAT list we make fun of all the time to see how objective that ended up.
If most of the enjoyment is about who wins and not necessarily how (meaning you rate your feelings towards a player more so than the gameplay) then there is a problem. I think it's the case here, maybe i am wrong though.
PS: Before someone says that i am surely one of the "meh" or "bad" votes, no i actually didn't vote at all apparently, was probably too busy being disappointed ^^
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On August 11 2016 03:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:Nobody is denying anything. But it should be allowed to point out that Zest played way under his usual lvl, especially in PvT. In general i am simply annoyed by this fake hype which is generated when Taeja wins. Yes he does have many fans, but can we be reasonable for a moment? Game 3 was not "excellent" , Taeja did nothing genius to come back from a pretty much unwinnable situation, etc Building a narrative around this win vs Zest in the sense of Taeja still being able to win vs the best of the best seems just extremely forced considering that Zest played like shit (he lost both PvT's, to players he really shouldn't lose to, made a lot of unforced mistakes, etc) and Taeja didn't even make it out of the group. But i feel like i am flogging a dead horse at this point, i am just the "Taeja hater" 
Well Taeja certainly is not a "genius" in that what he did was creative, but he is still a "genius" in different ways as much as Flash and other accoplished players are "gods".
My view is that people were touched that Taeja did not give up when things were looking bad and gave everything he got to allow mistakes to happen on zest's part. Sure, there was nothing new in what Taeja tried but I bet he did so bc those were his only choices. He's was there to do everything to win.
More importantly I don't think zest made a mistake but he crumbled under the pressure that Taeja was forcing him. Yes, zest made unusual mistakes, but many times I have seen many good players crumble in that very way just because the other player was that good at forcing mistakes (a good example of this is polt). I have seen it so often that I believe that forcing mistakes out of your opponent is a genuine skill and not an accidental mistake on the opponent's part, so let's give credit where it's due
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Well, Zest is surely completely focusing on Proleague at the moment, right guys?
... right?
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On August 11 2016 04:18 Deathstar wrote:
I still can't believe Zest didn't win the first fight in G3. I just saw a huge protoss army, and then a moshpit fight, and afterwards zest lost his entire army. Liberators are so deceiving in how fast they kill things jesus christ
That and no splash from zest. That's how a lot of protosses are losing PvTs it seems... especially trap
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On August 11 2016 04:36 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2016 23:29 The_Red_Viper wrote:On August 10 2016 23:15 stuchiu wrote:
I enjoy watching these ppl think Teaja is dead in game3. He was pretty dead until Zest decided it's a good idea to not defend a small "doomdrop" and lose his whole production because of that. That wasn't Taeja doing something amazingly intricate to come back into the game, that was Zest trying his hardest to still lose it. Zest did a warp in of Adepts to clean it up and the liberators seiged up before the warp in finished. He then warped in AGAIN and pylon got sniped. In a normal game that's enough to defend the drop, hence why Zest attacked. Obviously because the warpins failed he lost all his production, but he did TRY to defend it.
Ok sure that's fair enough. But we can agree that his execution of this defense was completely off (where he warps, etc) and that at some point he should probably notice that it doesn't work? Maybe he didn't realize how far ahead he was in the game, which seems kinda weird though.
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On August 11 2016 04:42 Ctesias wrote:
Well, Zest is surely completely focusing on Proleague at the moment, right guys?
... right?
I'm guessing he practiced PvP vs HerO and just assumed he would beat Ryung. He's still in SSL where he has to fight Patience then Dear (2 matches he should easily take).
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On August 11 2016 04:42 Ctesias wrote:
Well, Zest is surely completely focusing on Proleague at the moment, right guys?
... right?
Cataclysmic slump the likes we've never seen before
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too bad Taeja didn't advance, I wanted him to stall his retirement more 
Ryung advancing is awesome though!
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Love the games in Group A. A lot of unexpected results. I'm very happy that herO advances in first place but at the same I feel bad for Zest. He performed very poorly today. I think he was too confident with his PvT and didn't practice much. I feel like he came unprepared. Anyway,TaeJa and Ryung did so well today and definitely caught Zest by surprise. Kudos to them really. I'm glad that Ryung advances and he and herO are good friends too. How nice is that!
Also, I'm not sure what is the deal with bashing herO for his styles from people in this forum. He advances on top and still people trash-talked him he came last. Good game or bad game is personal taste. In the end of the day, it's his job to win and winning is all matter period! I thought his performance today was solid and smart. I find it's ridiculous that people think the games have to go 4 or 5 bases or some crazy base-trade to be considered "Excellent". I like that herO was decisive and as soon as he smelt blood in the water, he went for it to finish the game. Well-played really. Who on earth would think "Nah, I don't want to win right now. Let's cocoon up and go for 5 bases and max-out at 200 and then attack"? I agree that televised games should be entertaining and somehow dramatic for the sake of being entertaining but at the same time, they should be practical. Pro-gamers come in to play and win, not to act.
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sOs would've scouted that island base =)
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good bye Taeja, thanks for the awesome games :D
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Is the season of Zest over?
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rip Taeja
thx for the memories, you shall remain the greatest weekend warrior of all times! (and Nazgul's best pickup ever!)
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I am just happy he kicked Zest out of GSL. Not denying Zest is a good player. I really just do not like him.
Farewell Taeja. The reason I started to play this game more serious and actually try to get better.
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taeja's win vs zest was like Derek Jeter's last home game at yankee stadium or Kobe's last game
A well-liked veteran of the scene on the brink of retirement, bringing up magic one last time before leaving. Doesn't matter if certain circumstances ultimately made the moment pointless in the grand scheme of things. Zest played like shit. The orioles had nothing to play for (they were already in the playoffs and win or lose their seeding wouldn't be affected). The Jazz had nothing to play for (they were eliminated from playoff contention). Doesn't matter.
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Fuck yeah Ryung! Gonna have to watch these VODs.
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What I gathered from the TaejaClap case is:
1.- TL is for strictly analyze games and players statistically, hence flairs & storylines don't have a place here thus denying excitement and fanboyism
2.- TL is for cheering players, make former fans, drool over storylines and extraneous events, and press either 1 or 5 option in polls
Some ppl think that 1 and 2 are mutually exclusive, while others embrace a healthy mixture. I know where I'm standing 
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On August 11 2016 04:53 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 04:42 Ctesias wrote:
Well, Zest is surely completely focusing on Proleague at the moment, right guys?
... right? Cataclysmic slump the likes we've never seen before
Career-ending damage.
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On August 11 2016 04:18 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 04:04 Daswollvieh wrote:On August 11 2016 03:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:Nobody is denying anything. But it should be allowed to point out that Zest played way under his usual lvl, especially in PvT. In general i am simply annoyed by this fake hype which is generated when Taeja wins. Yes he does have many fans, but can we be reasonable for a moment? Game 3 was not "excellent" , Taeja did nothing genius to come back from a pretty much unwinnable situation, etc Building a narrative around this win vs Zest in the sense of Taeja still being able to win vs the best of the best seems just extremely forced considering that Zest played like shit (he lost both PvT's, to players he really shouldn't lose to, made a lot of unforced mistakes, etc) and Taeja didn't even make it out of the group. But i feel like i am flogging a dead horse at this point, i am just the "Taeja hater" Why not let just people be happy instead of explaining them why they're wrong again and again. If it annoys you when fans have a good time, maybe you should skip the LR thread after you made your point. There is a difference between having a good time and being completely unreasonable. Didn't see it in this thread but on reddit for example some people already suggested Taeja might win this GSL because he beat Zest. WTF. And just because i am in the minority regarding this i won't stop to voice my opinion just becaue Taeja fanatics can't stand the truth in their euphoria. (does that make me a douche? maybe but i am ok with that) Show nested quote +On August 11 2016 04:02 opisska wrote:
Depends really on your metric. It wasn't a game to study the fine details of highlevel play, that is for sure. But it was enormously hype and nailbiting. And honestly the final shitstorm was an interesting example of how you can get too cocky and die for it and it was quite the comeback - yes, even when the play is not perfect, making less mistakes than your opponent is a comeback.
Since foreigners don't play koreans anymore, I rarely feel invested into the outcome of a game, but there I was really cheering for Taeja to make it back from the grave and it was really fun. I would expect the rating system to be as objective as possible. That means that i vote reasonably even if my favorite player wins/loses. A good game isn't depending on which player i cheer for. I guess people disagree with this though and i think it's faulty
Why would you expect the rating system to be as objective as possible? A system in which random users vote on how "good" they thought a game was is pretty much as far from facilitating objectivity as you can get. Context the only thing that matters in a system like this, as you already know. Context meaning, the particular players, their backstories, their history, their strengths and weaknesses, and so on.
And let's be honest here, if a similar scenario happened with Flash instead of Taeja, I bet you'd be just a bit less inclined to complain... Maybe you'd still disagree in principle but I bet you'd be less vocal about how 'unreasonable' everybody is being. I've literally never seen a single user on TL (or, sports fan in general for that matter) who complained about how biased and irrational his fellow fans were being after his favorite player pulled off an unexpected (and perhaps fluke-y) victory. Because in the end, only salty people care about objectivity, and if you're happy about the outcome of a match, you'll just bask in that happiness and fuck what anyone else thinks. This dynamic exists in any competitive sport with dedicated fans, and I've observed it with such consistency that it's pretty clearly just human nature.
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EPT
