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On May 14 2016 22:55 Incognoto wrote:
I don't understand why people are mad.
There are win conditions for Starcraft. Kill all buildings.
There are draw conditions for Starcraft. We had draw conditions.
Polt tried to bring the game to draw conditions, rather than resigning. Why are people mad? Nerchio, Bunny, etc. you're all wrong, sorry.
Strange had to know the draw conditions and know that a timer was on his ass. He was indecisive, thus a draw took place. All there is to it!
The win conditions are
Destroy all buildings
That is the only condition. He would have managed to do so. The timer for anti-stalement is invented to prevent ladder abuse. so that should be Strange's win.
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Polt played for the draw and that was his only way to not drop out of the tournament. Giant game by him to get it to the point.
Strange and Polt have been aware of the timer, Strange just had to do the gut move a little bit earlier. In the end great play by Polt to get the tie (not draw, but tie), even if it is seen as unmannered, he did what he could to stay alive. Strange did not what he could to win this map.
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Canada2764 Posts
On May 14 2016 22:55 BretZ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 22:53 fezvez wrote:On May 14 2016 22:51 Elentos wrote:On May 14 2016 22:50 Ej_ wrote:
Honestly this is fucking retarded, arbitrary mechanic made for ladder games deciding a tournament game in a series that already had 1 possible outcome.
Good job Blizzard and Dreamhack referees. Strange had 10 minutes to go fucking kill him. Yup, no worries, the only thing that was racing in my mind was "How does Polt stall the game for 5 minutes?" when he had only his factory left. And he did If I know the stalemate rules, you can bet the pro players do/should. I would be one to argue stalemate has no place in professional play, especially when a player puts themselves in a position that they CAN STILL WIN. It'd be different, for me personally, if there was no win condition. But Strange clearly had won the game just moments before after a few small engagements with Polt's army, I'd argue.
Whether the stalemate has a place or not is debatable, but it was in the game and it happened and therefor it should be respected. Retroactively changing the rules would be dumb.
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France12992 Posts
On May 14 2016 22:54 Nakajin wrote:
Why is that in custom game, it is so fucking dum, it supose to be use on ladder but there is ref there WTF this is so fucking stupid I can't belive. Strange won the game 100% fuck that
He didn't manage to win in time, seriously played that scared looks like a fix almost o:
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Australia18228 Posts
On May 14 2016 22:56 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 22:54 pmp10 wrote:
If the timer was visible then it's a draw.
A dumb unfair draw but still a draw. I believe the auto-mechanic to prevent ladder abuse shouldnt decide and especially change a result of a WCS tournament. Strange won at that point.
In the future, it should be changed. But you can't award this win when Polt was playing towards the timer draw
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On May 14 2016 22:56 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 22:54 pmp10 wrote:
If the timer was visible then it's a draw.
A dumb unfair draw but still a draw. I believe the auto-mechanic to prevent ladder abuse shouldnt decide and especially change a result of a WCS tournament. Strange won at that point.
It's his fault the timer ran out. Besides, if Polt plays it out assuming the timer leads to a draw according to tournament rules, they can't just give a win to Strange.
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On May 14 2016 22:56 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 22:55 Incognoto wrote:
I don't understand why people are mad.
There are win conditions for Starcraft. Kill all buildings.
There are draw conditions for Starcraft. We had draw conditions.
Polt tried to bring the game to draw conditions, rather than resigning. Why are people mad? Nerchio, Bunny, etc. you're all wrong, sorry.
Strange had to know the draw conditions and know that a timer was on his ass. He was indecisive, thus a draw took place. All there is to it! The win conditions are Destroy all buildings That is the only condition. He would have managed to do so. The timer for anti-stalement is invented to prevent ladder abuse. so that should be Strange's win.
Pretty much this in my opinion too.
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Canada8990 Posts
The timer is made for ladder because there is no other way to have a draw, why the fuck should a game that is clearly not a draw be a draw there us refere.
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On May 14 2016 22:54 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 22:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 14 2016 22:50 Ej_ wrote:
Honestly this is fucking retarded, arbitrary mechanic made for ladder games deciding a tournament game in a series that already had 1 possible outcome.
Good job Blizzard and Dreamhack referees. The game's never over until it's over. We've seen plenty of throws, even this late in the game. And this isn't the first tournament draw either. tournament draws happen in games that are draws, not ones that have the outcome decided
No. Draws happen when the following conditions are met:
A stalemate occurs when all players are unable to complete any of the following actions:
Generate income
Produce a unit
Construct a building
Research an upgrade
Destroy an enemy building
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nonetheless, strange fucked up hard
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On May 14 2016 22:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 22:54 Ej_ wrote:On May 14 2016 22:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On May 14 2016 22:50 Ej_ wrote:
Honestly this is fucking retarded, arbitrary mechanic made for ladder games deciding a tournament game in a series that already had 1 possible outcome.
Good job Blizzard and Dreamhack referees. The game's never over until it's over. We've seen plenty of throws, even this late in the game. And this isn't the first tournament draw either. tournament draws happen in games that are draws, not ones that have the outcome decided The outcome is never decided until the game is actually over (i.e., until one person's structures are eliminated or they gg/ quit the game). Come on now, don't let your emotions overrule the facts.
ok, then resume from replay and let Strange win the game 
no emotions involved, the fact is that for unbestknown to anyone reason, a tournament game ispossibly beingdecided by a tool made for ladder games with no referees
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On May 14 2016 22:57 Soularion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 22:55 BretZ wrote:On May 14 2016 22:53 fezvez wrote:On May 14 2016 22:51 Elentos wrote:On May 14 2016 22:50 Ej_ wrote:
Honestly this is fucking retarded, arbitrary mechanic made for ladder games deciding a tournament game in a series that already had 1 possible outcome.
Good job Blizzard and Dreamhack referees. Strange had 10 minutes to go fucking kill him. Yup, no worries, the only thing that was racing in my mind was "How does Polt stall the game for 5 minutes?" when he had only his factory left. And he did If I know the stalemate rules, you can bet the pro players do/should. I would be one to argue stalemate has no place in professional play, especially when a player puts themselves in a position that they CAN STILL WIN. It'd be different, for me personally, if there was no win condition. But Strange clearly had won the game just moments before after a few small engagements with Polt's army, I'd argue. Whether the stalemate has a place or not is debatable, but it was in the game and it happened and therefor it should be respected. Retroactively changing the rules would be dumb.
Okay, it was in the game, but the argument is that it's a false draw. There was no draw scenario here.
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France12992 Posts
On May 14 2016 22:56 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 22:55 Incognoto wrote:
I don't understand why people are mad.
There are win conditions for Starcraft. Kill all buildings.
There are draw conditions for Starcraft. We had draw conditions.
Polt tried to bring the game to draw conditions, rather than resigning. Why are people mad? Nerchio, Bunny, etc. you're all wrong, sorry.
Strange had to know the draw conditions and know that a timer was on his ass. He was indecisive, thus a draw took place. All there is to it! The win conditions are Destroy all buildings That is the only condition. He would have managed to do so. The timer for anti-stalement is invented to prevent ladder abuse. so that should be Strange's win.
If the ingame screen said tie it should not be Strange's win, you actually have to win you know.
Why the draw mechanics were implemented is irrelevant to the matter.
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On May 14 2016 22:56 NarutO wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 22:55 Incognoto wrote:
I don't understand why people are mad.
There are win conditions for Starcraft. Kill all buildings.
There are draw conditions for Starcraft. We had draw conditions.
Polt tried to bring the game to draw conditions, rather than resigning. Why are people mad? Nerchio, Bunny, etc. you're all wrong, sorry.
Strange had to know the draw conditions and know that a timer was on his ass. He was indecisive, thus a draw took place. All there is to it! The win conditions are Destroy all buildings That is the only condition. He would have managed to do so. The timer for anti-stalement is invented to prevent ladder abuse. so that should be Strange's win.
I don't see the difference between ladder and tournament though.
They're both a game of Starcraft. I believe that the stalemate conditions are the same for any game of Starcraft, whether custom or on ladder.
Thus, if Polt can force stalemate conditions, then there is a stalemate.
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On May 14 2016 22:57 Nakajin wrote:
The timer is made for ladder because there is no other way to have a draw, why the fuck should a game that is clearly not a draw be a draw there us refere.
Exactly this.
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On May 14 2016 22:58 Makro wrote:
nonetheless, strange fucked up hard
Probably the only thing everyone can agree on.
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i'm gonna throw the magic word
matchfix
User was warned for this post
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On May 14 2016 22:55 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2016 22:54 Tiaraju9 wrote:On May 14 2016 22:53 Ej_ wrote:
the king has spoken That draw mechanic is part of the game. There is no other way around here. the argument that this mecanic is made for the ladder makes sens to me, i think admins should overule it
Something like this should be decided before the tournament, not during. I want Strange to win, but it won't be fair if Polt loses to a mid tournament rule change.
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It's pretty clear that this is what Polt was playing for - he had money in the bank and a factory, and could have built widow mines - actually quite a few of them - in a situation where his opponent had no obs. He knew the rules of the tourney and played to them. Strange knew the rules and played in spite of them. Regame is the right choice.
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EPT
