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Please keep the balance whine down, guys. Discussion's fine, whine is not. |
On February 03 2016 20:46 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 20:44 Soularion wrote:On February 03 2016 20:40 Wintex wrote:On February 03 2016 20:37 Charoisaur wrote:On February 03 2016 20:33 Soularion wrote:On February 03 2016 20:30 ecnahc wrote:On February 03 2016 20:29 Soularion wrote:
I agree with Scarlett's thoughts. TvZ is balanced, might be an amazing-er matchup if ultras are nerfed but let's wait and see if terrans can find a way around it first. Worst case, it's not like it's imba or anything. Terrans can still win, and win easily. people need to take this attitude towards all of the balance whine, just fucking play the game if you enjoy it and stop if it's making you grind your teeth Some balance whine is justified. I think adepts were hella gross, and I think BL-infestor was hella gross, but this is not either of those things. I'm entirely sure terrans will find an answer to it, so just let the game evolve naturally, guys. It's not like ultras being strong are costing us awesome games, judging from this goddamn series! i heard the exact same things being said about BL/infestor and adepts. just let the game evolve... The problem is, adepts literally made opening as T impossibly narrow and limited the game. A lategame issue can always be beaten if previous stuff has gone well, and there's more time to try develop a counter in the game. Another point to made is that BL-infestor actively won games no matter how behind the zerg was, while ultras only work as a 'free win' (read: if the zerg plays well, and if the terran's options are either not taken/don't quite work) if the zerg is ahead. Yugioh vs that terran on ohana, 2 base zvt broodlord infestor never forget.
can anyone remember the name? I recall the game and want to rewatch it
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Poll: Recommend Billowy vs Rogue Game 1Meh Game (7) 78% Bad Game (2) 22% Excellent Game (0) 0% Good Game (0) 0% 9 total votes Your vote: Recommend Billowy vs Rogue Game 1 (Vote): Excellent Game
(Vote): Good Game
(Vote): Meh Game
(Vote): Bad Game
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sorry i was afk, can anyone tell me the vetos?
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I remember an awful lot of salt about parade pushing up till drg/curious beat innovation.
I contributed to that salt.
Part of the reason was that you had a ton of patch-zergs in early HOTS being in leagues that they didn't actually deserve. Often time it was a top 10 teran beating a top 30 zerg.
Generally, after Overseer buff, the matchup was pretty balanced (if anything it was actually Zerg favored given that terran since then received more buffs and still didn't look favored towards the end of HOTS).
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On February 03 2016 20:50 Penev wrote:
this gaem is alive as fuck!
Somehow I don't trust any Korean numbers at all anymore. 
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 03 2016 20:48 Noonius wrote:I know crap all about toss but adept is more cost efficient
In lots of situations, yeah. Zealots are still useful in lots of ways though. If you want to damage buildings, for example. Charge zealots are also a better option for immortal/archon support.
Generally from what I've seen it's mostly zealot harass lategame.
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On February 03 2016 20:48 Noonius wrote:I know crap all about toss but adept is more cost efficient
that's how it feels like. feels bad for zealots.
i need to get to class so i won't see maru play ):
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Canada2764 Posts
On February 03 2016 20:42 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 20:29 Soularion wrote:
I agree with Scarlett's thoughts. TvZ is balanced, might be an amazing-er matchup if ultras are nerfed but let's wait and see if terrans can find a way around it first. Worst case, it's not like it's imba or anything. Terrans can still win, and win easily. God I hate this "find a way around it" logic. Let me make a counterexample, where we assume Mauraders get +50 damage during the beta. And now the game is released and Mauruaders dominate everything, and I respond by "let's wait to we see Zergs and protosses find a way to beat it. Oh and btw, I am not gonna give you any exact deadline for zergs and protosses, your just gonna have to suffer like this forever." No stupid shit is stupid shit. Ultralisks are an unfun a-move unit that never should have received better core stats, but instead should have been slightly faster. And it's not about win/rate in the matchup. If zerg wants other compensation buffs that's fine, but Ultralisks with their +2 armor is not the way to "balance" a matchup. We can also look at this logically: If terran
... But ultralisks aren't dominating everything.
They're dominating games in which the zerg plays properly, the terran makes mistakes, the terran doesn't take proper fights, and the terran is behind to begin with.
Not to mention that marauders are early/mid game, while ultralisks are late game, so ultralisks can pretty much immediately be defeated by getting a lead before they come out-- your metaphor makes literally no sense.
Ultralisks aren't even this 'a-move broken' unit; try and play zerg, get to late-game, build ultras and a-move to victory. If it's so easy, anyone should be able to do it, right? No. Obviously not. I hate the argument of 'oh its so easy' because ease is irrelevant, everything in starcraft has so many variables to make it difficult that no matter how 'easy' something is, it's not doable by people who aren't more skilled than their opponents anyway.
Let's look at the facts.
Do ultralisks provide bad games? Nope, this entire set was fucking -awesome- and pretty much everyone agrees on that.
Do ultralisks provide bad games for the players? No clue, but I'd imagine players aren't nearly as frustrated because they know they can improve on other things rather than just 'oh I was ahead and I lost because of ultras'. We'd have to ask them, though, although their answers might be biased.
Do ultralisks provide actual, statistical imbalance? Nope.
Do ultralisks allow zergs who play worse than terrans to win games? Nope. Curious thoroughly outplayed ByuN this series.
Ultralisks are not unreasonably broken. Play against them or play around them, and at the worst case if ultralisks make any of these clauses 'true' within a month or two when the game is more figured out and we're seeing better play, we can nerf the armor bonus then.
Until that time- just enjoy the damn game! It's awesome, and we should focus on that.
Kinda ranted a bit there ;p I think my points are functional, though.
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On February 03 2016 20:51 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 20:48 Noonius wrote:On February 03 2016 20:47 Incognoto wrote:
are zealots now useless units? I know crap all about toss but adept is more cost efficient that's how it feels like. feels bad for zealots. i need to get to class so i won't see maru play ):
from what i understand, adepts are superior if you can take the time to micro them, but once upgrades and multitask requirements increase zealots are superior kind of like lings vs burrow roaches
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Seems like a bad position to put your Forge and Twilight.
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On February 03 2016 20:50 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +I remember an awful lot of salt about parade pushing up till drg/curious beat innovation.
I contributed to that salt. Part of the reason was that you had a ton of patch-zergs in early HOTS being in leagues that they didn't actually deserve. Often time it was a top 5-top10 teran beating a top 30 zerg. Generally, after Overseer buff, the matchup was pretty balanced.
The problem was that in 90% of the games where terran got their 4th base up, 4m just mowed down zerg. Overseer buff was very good, but I still remember innovation vs soulkey etc just making macro tvz look stupid.
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France12904 Posts
On February 03 2016 20:50 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +I remember an awful lot of salt about parade pushing up till drg/curious beat innovation.
I contributed to that salt. Part of the reason was that you had a ton of patch-zergs in early HOTS being in leagues that they didn't actually deserve. Often time it was a top 5-top10 teran beating a top 30 zerg. Generally, after Overseer buff, the matchup was pretty balanced.
Stop dropping bombs like that, zergs deserve what they got
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On February 03 2016 20:48 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 20:48 HellHound wrote:On February 03 2016 20:47 Sif_ wrote:
just take ghosts away and give me a strong microless unit I like when terrans admit they just want to do roach all ins. It's called a hellbat push
Nah you still need to micro your addons while making supply depots and that takes a lot of multitasking
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one of my favorite things about lotv is that people are actively taking ol speed more and more often
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this is not gonna work\
okay good no atk
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On February 03 2016 20:53 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 20:50 Hider wrote:I remember an awful lot of salt about parade pushing up till drg/curious beat innovation.
I contributed to that salt. Part of the reason was that you had a ton of patch-zergs in early HOTS being in leagues that they didn't actually deserve. Often time it was a top 5-top10 teran beating a top 30 zerg. Generally, after Overseer buff, the matchup was pretty balanced. The problem was that in 90% of the games where terran got their 4th base up, 4m just mowed down zerg. Overseer buff was very good, but I still remember innovation vs soulkey etc just making macro tvz look stupid.
because they attacked. It later on turned out that against 4M based play you just defend and wait for the Terran to run out of money on 3-4 bases while you counterattack and make it impossible for him to defend a 5th. Basically what curious did here last game.
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i thought stalker comps were out of vogue in pvz atm?
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Canada2764 Posts
very interested to see how Rogue plays in ZvP, hopefully he pulls out some next level shit so I can fanboy over him
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On February 03 2016 20:55 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2016 20:53 bo1b wrote:On February 03 2016 20:50 Hider wrote:I remember an awful lot of salt about parade pushing up till drg/curious beat innovation.
I contributed to that salt. Part of the reason was that you had a ton of patch-zergs in early HOTS being in leagues that they didn't actually deserve. Often time it was a top 5-top10 teran beating a top 30 zerg. Generally, after Overseer buff, the matchup was pretty balanced. The problem was that in 90% of the games where terran got their 4th base up, 4m just mowed down zerg. Overseer buff was very good, but I still remember innovation vs soulkey etc just making macro tvz look stupid. because they attacked. It later on turned out that against 4M based play you just defend and wait for the Terran to run out of money on 3-4 bases while you counterattack and make it impossible for him to defend a 5th. Basically what curious did here last game.
It wasn't because they attacked, it was because they were able to defend the first push without losing too much to stop the push. Innovation vs Drg on all 3 games featured drg pushing and winning.
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On February 03 2016 20:47 Sif_ wrote:
just take ghosts away and give me a strong microless unit
I don't think we need that because we need a fair design if terran stronger in mid game then late game terran must has a harder time.But it's doesnt mean terran alway lose in late game just hard to win like TvP in WOL.
If you stronger than opponent in mid game but also stronger than late game then it's not fair.This is what i though about Bios vs zerg.
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EPT
