On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
Excellent description! Nobody else dares to pull this kind of strategies ...
He's by far the most successful and entertaining player for me. Other players like Maru, Life and Parting may have some sexy micro play, but their games can be rather predictable and one-dimensional after a while (like watching Marvel movies). Rogue has a bags of tricks too, but his plays still have a gimmicky feel and not good enough to beat top players at the highest level. Classic comes a distant second - he can be cheesy as hell, but also capable to macro up and play solid. (And for BW right now, Bisu is the most entertaining.)
Maybe it's just a Protoss bullshit thing
The same for me. He is very entertaining and primarily, he is not some "boring" robot, who perfectionized one style. He is very creative. Probably the most creative player from all current players. And it is not a creativity for the cost of losing, like Has.
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
Excellent description! Nobody else dares to pull this kind of strategies ...
He's by far the most successful and entertaining player for me. Other players like Maru, Life and Parting may have some sexy micro play, but their games can be rather predictable and one-dimensional after a while (like watching Marvel movies). Rogue has a bags of tricks too, but his plays still have a gimmicky feel and not good enough to beat top players at the highest level. Classic comes a distant second - he can be cheesy as hell, but also capable to macro up and play solid. (And for BW right now, Bisu is the most entertaining.)
Maybe it's just a Protoss bullshit thing
The same for me. He is very entertaining and primarily, he is not some "boring" robot, who perfectionized one style. He is very creative. Probably the most creative player from all current players. And it is not a creativity for the cost of losing, like Has.
That he manages to outsmart opponents at weekend tourneys (as opposed to straight-up outplay them using raw skill like Life, Taeja, Rain, etc.) probably also shows he's a natural creative genius (as opposed to having more time to be prepared by coaching and teammates).
It's a puzzle why he can't replicate his form in GSL and SSL. Maybe the preparation format negates his edge (opponents can prepare against him). Maybe Bo3 games don't favour his high-risk style (in a long series, he banks on winning more games than he drops). Maybe his true edge is handling sustained pressure in marathon tourneys better than any other player.
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
Excellent description! Nobody else dares to pull this kind of strategies ...
He's by far the most successful and entertaining player for me. Other players like Maru, Life and Parting may have some sexy micro play, but their games can be rather predictable and one-dimensional after a while (like watching Marvel movies). Rogue has a bags of tricks too, but his plays still have a gimmicky feel and not good enough to beat top players at the highest level. Classic comes a distant second - he can be cheesy as hell, but also capable to macro up and play solid. (And for BW right now, Bisu is the most entertaining.)
Maybe it's just a Protoss bullshit thing
The same for me. He is very entertaining and primarily, he is not some "boring" robot, who perfectionized one style. He is very creative. Probably the most creative player from all current players. And it is not a creativity for the cost of losing, like Has.
That he manages to outsmart opponents at weekend tourneys (as opposed to straight-up outplay them using raw skill like Life, Taeja, Rain, etc.) probably also shows he's a natural creative genius (as opposed to having more time to be prepared by coaching and teammates).
It's a puzzle why he can't replicate his form in GSL and SSL. Maybe the preparation format negates his edge (opponents can prepare against him). Maybe Bo3 games don't favour his high-risk style (in a long series, he banks on winning more games than he drops). Maybe his true edge is handling sustained pressure in marathon tourneys better than any other player.
I think, it has something to do with the internal motivation. I "lived" with him all the sad time in the middle of 2015. Not only he was losing games with mediocre opponents, he was also not playing well. Like he was not inspired. Not interested. And all the games, he won in the middle of 2015, he did not win by his great creative play, but by relying on his good micro and macro and waiting for the mistakes of the opponents and using them. But he was not "leading" the games. He was just reacting.
It was very sad compared with his yesterday's performance, when he was always setting the pace of the game. Then he found the inspiration at MSI and yesterday at IEM. And after that, he started playing well. I am so sorry that he will probably miss BlizzCon. That is so sad. I do not think that the current inspiration lasts for another 6 months to the next GSL and SSL. At least, we will see his genius at Proleague each week as the IEM victory should drive him for a few weeks / months more.
This talk about sOs winning in ways other Protoss can't makes me wonder: is it better, from a historical perspective, to win in a way nobody else ever can, or to win in a way that eventually gets, or already is, copied by everybody else?
On February 03 2016 16:34 Roadog wrote: This talk about sOs winning in ways other Protoss can't makes me wonder: is it better, from a historical perspective, to win in a way nobody else ever can, or to win in a way that eventually gets, or already is, copied by everybody else?
Probably the former. Shows that you were superhuman, god-like, one-in-a-million. Like Brazil and Spain winning the World Cups. Try as you might, you can't replicate their skills and styles (without years, if not decades, of careful nurturing from the grassroots).
Also, it's the former type of champions that keep winning. Because they can keep playing at a higher level than anyone else. Even if their skills and styles get copied, they have an extra gear to put them ahead again.
If Protoess players were to copy sOs' builds today and other players develop counters to them, he'll just come up with new builds and stay one step ahead of everyone else. He keeps winning in ways nobody else can because that's how he wins.
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
Excellent description! Nobody else dares to pull this kind of strategies ...
He's by far the most successful and entertaining player for me. Other players like Maru, Life and Parting may have some sexy micro play, but their games can be rather predictable and one-dimensional after a while (like watching Marvel movies). Rogue has a bags of tricks too, but his plays still have a gimmicky feel and not good enough to beat top players at the highest level. Classic comes a distant second - he can be cheesy as hell, but also capable to macro up and play solid. (And for BW right now, Bisu is the most entertaining.)
Maybe it's just a Protoss bullshit thing
The same for me. He is very entertaining and primarily, he is not some "boring" robot, who perfectionized one style. He is very creative. Probably the most creative player from all current players. And it is not a creativity for the cost of losing, like Has.
That he manages to outsmart opponents at weekend tourneys (as opposed to straight-up outplay them using raw skill like Life, Taeja, Rain, etc.) probably also shows he's a natural creative genius (as opposed to having more time to be prepared by coaching and teammates).
It's a puzzle why he can't replicate his form in GSL and SSL. Maybe the preparation format negates his edge (opponents can prepare against him). Maybe Bo3 games don't favour his high-risk style (in a long series, he banks on winning more games than he drops). Maybe his true edge is handling sustained pressure in marathon tourneys better than any other player.
I think, it has something to do with the internal motivation. I "lived" with him all the sad time in the middle of 2015. Not only he was losing games with mediocre opponents, he was also not playing well. Like he was not inspired. Not interested. And all the games, he won in the middle of 2015, he did not win by his great creative play, but by relying on his good micro and macro and waiting for the mistakes of the opponents and using them. But he was not "leading" the games. He was just reacting.
It was very sad compared with his yesterday's performance, when he was always setting the pace of the game. Then he found the inspiration at MSI and yesterday at IEM. And after that, he started playing well. I am so sorry that he will probably miss BlizzCon. That is so sad. I do not think that the current inspiration lasts for another 6 months to the next GSL and SSL. At least, we will see his genius at Proleague each week as the IEM victory should drive him for a few weeks / months more.
Yes, his plays seem rather lacklustre and uninspiring in GSL and SSL somehow. Maybe he's told to focus more on Proleague.
On February 03 2016 16:34 Roadog wrote: This talk about sOs winning in ways other Protoss can't makes me wonder: is it better, from a historical perspective, to win in a way nobody else ever can, or to win in a way that eventually gets, or already is, copied by everybody else?
Probably the former. Shows that you were superhuman, god-like, one-in-a-million. Like Brazil and Spain winning the World Cups. Try as you might, you can't replicate their skills and styles (without years, if not decades, of careful nurturing from the grassroots).
Also, it's the former type of champions that keep winning. Because they can keep playing at a higher level than anyone else. Even if their skills and styles get copied, they have an extra gear to put them ahead again.
If Protoess players were to copy sOs' builds today and other players develop counters to them, he'll just come up with new builds and stay one step ahead of everyone else. He keeps winning in ways nobody else can because that's how he wins.
Spain won their WC with a godly goalkeeper... That has been done by Italy four years earlier lol
On February 04 2016 17:08 RichardNPL wrote: how can this be called an IEM with only 8 invited players 1 of them being retired and 3 foreigners. Easy money for sOs
It's just not the same after the WCS changes. I see this as a sort of little bone being thrown out by IEM, and unfortunately a shadow of previous IEM events with Koreans involved.
Has anyone noticed that in game 5 of sOs vs herO, herO loses ~20 supply worth of stalkers to his *own* Disruptor-shot? At 12:18 ingame time, or at the 1h15m34s mark of the following video:
EPT
