GO KIM MIN CHUL!!! also I want sOs to beat herO if SK wins so we have a Woongjin Stars final, it's been too long since we've had a great series between those two.
Byun has really good late game control but w/e you can still a move bane/ultra Tbh he fucked up in the mid game trying to open several fronts, there is no need to split more than 1 medivac drop vs mutaling, paradepushing is still really good.
On February 02 2016 12:36 Charoisaur wrote: tvz is probably the least interesting matchup at the moment. Either you kill the zerg before he gets ultras or you lose...
I think 'most anticipated results' in this MU is more fair in the context.
On February 02 2016 12:36 Charoisaur wrote: tvz is probably the least interesting matchup at the moment. Either you kill the zerg before he gets ultras or you lose...
Actually Byun could have won that in the late game. I know you didn't notice, but 2 ultras took out 2 mining bases (this shouldn't have happened). They took out a PF and everything, since Byun didn't see it until too late he lost.
But no you can just complain about Balance instead of watching, that works too.
On February 02 2016 12:36 Charoisaur wrote: tvz is probably the least interesting matchup at the moment. Either you kill the zerg before he gets ultras or you lose...
Actually Byun could have won that in the late game. I know you didn't notice, but 2 ultras took out 2 mining bases (this shouldn't have happened). They took out a PF and everything, since Byun didn't see it until too late he lost.
But no you can just complain about Balance instead of watching, that works too.
sounds more like a complaint about the entertainment value of the game instead of balance, but he has a point. the MU has had a spectacular fall from grace
On February 02 2016 12:36 Charoisaur wrote: tvz is probably the least interesting matchup at the moment. Either you kill the zerg before he gets ultras or you lose...
Actually Byun could have won that in the late game. I know you didn't notice, but 2 ultras took out 2 mining bases (this shouldn't have happened). They took out a PF and everything, since Byun didn't see it until too late he lost.
But no you can just complain about Balance instead of watching, that works too.
a pf doesn't do shit to ultras if you don't have some units around it. Having an orbital at the 5th was the problem and it was just a symptom, byun wasn't prepared for the ultra phase and died.
That was exactly the state of TvP for like 2-3 years, nobody wanted to play a lategame P favored so you commit everything to the mid game and you can't win in lategame because there is no way you're prepared for it.
On February 02 2016 12:36 Charoisaur wrote: tvz is probably the least interesting matchup at the moment. Either you kill the zerg before he gets ultras or you lose...
Actually Byun could have won that in the late game. I know you didn't notice, but 2 ultras took out 2 mining bases (this shouldn't have happened). They took out a PF and everything, since Byun didn't see it until too late he lost.
But no you can just complain about Balance instead of watching, that works too.
i don't complain about balance, tvz is probably even slightly terran favored. I just say once ultras are out the game is pretty much unwinnable and that's what I also see in progames. Designwise this "kill him before he gets there" is just very boring.
On February 02 2016 12:36 Charoisaur wrote: tvz is probably the least interesting matchup at the moment. Either you kill the zerg before he gets ultras or you lose...
Actually Byun could have won that in the late game. I know you didn't notice, but 2 ultras took out 2 mining bases (this shouldn't have happened). They took out a PF and everything, since Byun didn't see it until too late he lost.
But no you can just complain about Balance instead of watching, that works too.
sounds more like a complaint about the entertainment value of the game instead of balance, but he has a point. the MU has had a spectacular fall from grace
This is much better than watching a Zerg bash their head into the wall that was mech by the end of HotS
On February 02 2016 12:36 Charoisaur wrote: tvz is probably the least interesting matchup at the moment. Either you kill the zerg before he gets ultras or you lose...
Actually Byun could have won that in the late game. I know you didn't notice, but 2 ultras took out 2 mining bases (this shouldn't have happened). They took out a PF and everything, since Byun didn't see it until too late he lost.
But no you can just complain about Balance instead of watching, that works too.
sounds more like a complaint about the entertainment value of the game instead of balance, but he has a point. the MU has had a spectacular fall from grace
This is much better than watching a Zerg bash their head into the wall that was mech by the end of HotS
I hate so much the style SK is using this game. The most boring thing possible, only difference with hots mech is that you get ultras faster and hence can actually attack.
at least soulkey is forgetting plating or this game would be over rofl, the fact you can get ultras and infest + a decent army with upgrades on 6 gas...
On February 02 2016 12:51 CruelZeratul wrote: Doesn't matter how much you batter Zerg down it seems. One lucky Fungal and everything is looking great for Zerg.
Its really hard not to think what is the point of ravagers, they where supposed to be anti-forcefield units, but now they are made almost every game in every MU
On February 02 2016 12:54 stuchiu wrote: I dont see any kind of plan from Soulkey in this game
if he doesn't lose his ultra cavern researching plating he probably wins on a counter push once he gets a decent ultra count. Byun was making almost pure marine/tank
On February 02 2016 12:56 blade55555 wrote: Bretz, these threads have been this way since 2010 .
Not TvZ ones tho, this MU was always the most loved one
You weren't around 2010 were you? It started off with zergs complaining about zvt, then it switched to Terran, then back to zerg, then back to Terran (bl/corr/infestor for a long time). No matter how balanced it was at times there are always the balance complainers .
So it just occured to me that kaelaris commented on how soulkey is one of the only Koreans playing for foreign teams. While he's playing against Byun, who is ALSO a Korean playing on a foreign team
On February 02 2016 13:00 chipmonklord17 wrote: So it just occured to me that kaelaris commented on how soulkey is one of the only Koreans playing for foreign teams. While he's playing against Byun, who is ALSO a Korean playing on a foreign team
who would have guessed that foreign = non asian for some persons in the scene.
On February 02 2016 13:00 chipmonklord17 wrote: So it just occured to me that kaelaris commented on how soulkey is one of the only Koreans playing for foreign teams. While he's playing against Byun, who is ALSO a Korean playing on a foreign team
On February 02 2016 13:00 chipmonklord17 wrote: So it just occured to me that kaelaris commented on how soulkey is one of the only Koreans playing for foreign teams. While he's playing against Byun, who is ALSO a Korean playing on a foreign team
I kind of get ByuN cause its a Chinese team, they throw money around a decent amt of time. I don't now how Soulkey's team gets any ROI
On February 02 2016 13:00 chipmonklord17 wrote: So it just occured to me that kaelaris commented on how soulkey is one of the only Koreans playing for foreign teams. While he's playing against Byun, who is ALSO a Korean playing on a foreign team
doesn't make his statement wrong^^
I'm not claiming he's wrong, it just seemed like an odd thing to point out when the other person is in the same boat.
On February 02 2016 13:00 chipmonklord17 wrote: So it just occured to me that kaelaris commented on how soulkey is one of the only Koreans playing for foreign teams. While he's playing against Byun, who is ALSO a Korean playing on a foreign team
I kind of get ByuN cause its a Chinese team, they throw money around a decent amt of time. I don't now how Soulkey's team gets any ROI
Does TCM have any sponsors that have any relevancy in Korea? Actually for that matter I don't know what sponsors TCM at all. Onward to liquipedia
On February 02 2016 13:00 chipmonklord17 wrote: So it just occured to me that kaelaris commented on how soulkey is one of the only Koreans playing for foreign teams. While he's playing against Byun, who is ALSO a Korean playing on a foreign team
I kind of get ByuN cause its a Chinese team, they throw money around a decent amt of time. I don't now how Soulkey's team gets any ROI
ByuN also plays a ton for them in Chinese teamleagues
On February 02 2016 12:56 blade55555 wrote: Bretz, these threads have been this way since 2010 .
wellllllllllll yeah but still
anyway, I'm really enjoying the direction TvZ meta is heading in LotV. It's so action packed it reminds me of BW
I know it's a sick mu right now. Specially now that Terrans are figuring out transition timings into ghosts and stuff, ultras are no longer being a "win" at top level ZvT. I was worried it would go into a turtling late game, but so far not looking like it too much .
On February 02 2016 12:56 blade55555 wrote: Bretz, these threads have been this way since 2010 .
wellllllllllll yeah but still
anyway, I'm really enjoying the direction TvZ meta is heading in LotV. It's so action packed it reminds me of BW
I know it's a sick mu right now. Specially now that Terrans are figuring out transition timings into ghosts and stuff, ultras are no longer being a "win" at top level ZvT. I was worried it would go into a turtling late game, but so far not looking like it too much .
except on dusk it's quite hard to turtle considering how much you need to expand in lotv imo
If byun can clear some creep this game should be his, the all in is gonna be so hard to stop.
On February 02 2016 13:12 Ppjack wrote: What kind of evil schedules IEM at 4 am and proleague 5 hours laters. Am I suppose to live by night for the reste of my life ?
On February 02 2016 13:12 Ppjack wrote: What kind of evil schedules IEM at 4 am and proleague 5 hours laters. Am I suppose to live by night for the reste of my life ?
probably the countries that live in that timezone...
also welcome to being an SC2 fan from North America
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
No, him mentally breaking to Seed in the ro4 in the GSL is his best achievement
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
No he made it to a ro4 GSL
twice and each time with decent runs. Even winning the tournament wouldn't trump it imo.
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
Beating Lilbow is not ByuN's greatest achievement, no...
The problem with roach/ravager/infestor/ultra is that in terms of pure money you need about 7-8 bases it looked like (because ByuN made him burn a lot of units/resource in drop prevention/drone retention), but if you get spread out that far you just can't deal with drop.s You can't attack till armor is done and there's no guarantee you can break them either.
There are a lot of problems with this comp when played against Byun/TY
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
No, him mentally breaking to Seed in the ro4 in the GSL is his best achievement
On February 02 2016 13:12 Ppjack wrote: What kind of evil schedules IEM at 4 am and proleague 5 hours laters. Am I suppose to live by night for the reste of my life ?
probably the countries that live in that timezone...
also welcome to being an SC2 fan from North America
I was leaning towards a conspiration of coffee producers.
But what you said could make sense, even if I don't get why there are different timezone while there is only one sun and one earth.
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
No, him mentally breaking to Seed in the ro4 in the GSL is his best achievement
edit: also happens to be one of his saddest
He got 2nd in Code A in 2011.
I think I'd rank ro4 code S better than 2nd code A, maybe equal
On February 02 2016 13:15 stuchiu wrote: The problem with roach/ravager/infestor/ultra is that in terms of pure money you need about 7-8 bases it looked like (because ByuN made him burn a lot of units/resource in drop prevention/drone retention), but if you get spread out that far you just can't deal with drop.s You can't attack till armor is done and there's no guarantee you can break them either.
There are a lot of problems with this comp when played against Byun/TY
I'm glad we've been blessed with the possibility of TvZ Gods.
On February 02 2016 13:12 Ppjack wrote: What kind of evil schedules IEM at 4 am and proleague 5 hours laters. Am I suppose to live by night for the reste of my life ?
probably the countries that live in that timezone...
also welcome to being an SC2 fan from North America
I was leaning towards a conspiration of coffee producers.
But what you said could make sense, even if I don't get why there are different timezone while there is only one sun and one earth.
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
No, him mentally breaking to Seed in the ro4 in the GSL is his best achievement
edit: also happens to be one of his saddest
He got 2nd in Code A in 2011.
I think I'd rank ro4 code S better than 2nd code A, maybe equal
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
No, him mentally breaking to Seed in the ro4 in the GSL is his best achievement
edit: also happens to be one of his saddest
He got 2nd in Code A in 2011.
I think I'd rank ro4 code S better than 2nd code A, maybe equal
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
No, him mentally breaking to Seed in the ro4 in the GSL is his best achievement
edit: also happens to be one of his saddest
He got 2nd in Code A in 2011.
I think I'd rank ro4 code S better than 2nd code A, maybe equal
2011 Code A was a legit competition
Yea but Code S is THE legit competition
Code A was pretty tough. This was before the up & down format change where many Code S caliber players were stuck in code A due to unlucky draws.
On February 02 2016 13:06 stuchiu wrote: I'm so meh about roach/ravager ZvT.
I personally believe the meta will change from Roach/Ravager to a composition that is better at dealing with drops. Whoever is casting with Kalerias said Ravager/Ling/Muta? I'm curious to see what happens.
Also, is this Byun's best achievement ever? Even if he doesn't make it to Grand Final
No, him mentally breaking to Seed in the ro4 in the GSL is his best achievement
edit: also happens to be one of his saddest
He got 2nd in Code A in 2011.
I think I'd rank ro4 code S better than 2nd code A, maybe equal
2011 Code A was a legit competition
Yea but Code S is THE legit competition
Code A was pretty tough. This was before the up & down format change where many Code S caliber players were stuck in code A due to unlucky draws.
Top 24 in Code S retained their seeds, and the bottom 8 had an easier route to get back in the next season. Code A was much more variable with player form
On February 02 2016 13:27 Fusilero wrote: Wins the Chinese team league for them and makes the finals of his first lan in pretty much forever. Seems x-team made the right call on grabbing Byun
On February 02 2016 13:35 Diabolique wrote: MC is still the best!!! Sorry that he had to play sOs
How can you betray the all-mighty sOs! To jail you go guarded by dts and canons!
Sos practices his cheeses on people in kespa jail, byun had to play against sos builds for over a year. How any man could emerge from that and still be able to lift his mouse is a true miracle
On February 02 2016 13:33 Diabolique wrote: OK, Apollo asked the best questions, he is a bit winning me back ...
Winning you back? How did he loose you? That Twitter Drama? Atleast he did apologise unlike other personalities, or do you mean the whole WCS is totally gonna be awesome you guys? =P
On February 02 2016 13:35 Diabolique wrote: MC is still the best!!! Sorry that he had to play sOs
How can you betray the all-mighty sOs! To jail you go guarded by dts and canons!
Sos practices his cheeses on people in kespa jail, byun had to play against sos builds for over a year. How any man could emerge from that and still be able to lift his mouse is a true miracle
"What doesn't kill you makes you stronger" - skyhigh's fav song
On February 02 2016 13:39 Solar424 wrote: Whatever happened to the puppy?
Sacrificed his brain to Byun to give him extra multitasking.
I thought that was INnoVation
Bogus didn't sacrifice anything. Just standard innovation. Took him 2 years to diversify his play in hots. in 2018 we'll truly have a dangerous terran.
On February 02 2016 13:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Byun hasn't started tweeting yet, but I have breaking news that he has followed 2 people since his twitter was last posted here so it's happening!
On February 02 2016 13:46 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Byun hasn't started tweeting yet, but I have breaking news that he has followed 2 people since his twitter was last posted here so it's happening!
Is it possible to say that one would be better than the other? Or whether Classic or Zest are better or worse? In contrary to the other races, it seems very hard for me to pinpoint who'd be best Protoss or rank top3
I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
On February 02 2016 14:19 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
On February 02 2016 14:19 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
They'd just die to disruptor balls. Way too slow.
But they'd also provide a means to kill them before the shot goes off no?
I really do not like disruptors ... is is somehow taking away some balance. Like yesterday Zest vs Dear ... Zest all the time clearly better ... and then one disruptor shot and he lost.
On February 02 2016 14:19 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
They'd just die to disruptor balls. Way too slow.
But they'd also provide a means to kill them before the shot goes off no?
EDIT: Or are they too short ranged now?
Not 100% sure, but I'd say your disruptor control would have to be pretty damn poor to get sniped by colossi, especially since they don't do all that much damage now.
On February 02 2016 14:21 Phredxor wrote: I really hope the PvP meta changes or something. I grew to like HotS PvP, but I can't enjoy this
yeah PvP in HotS got interesting with all the different builds and ways to get advantages in the mid and late game, it was very diverse and exciting (except when it got deathbally, which it still is imo in LotV, just with actual balls)
On February 02 2016 14:22 Diabolique wrote: I really do not like disruptors ... is is somehow taking away some balance. Like yesterday Zest vs Dear ... Zest all the time clearly better ... and then one disruptor shot and he lost.
On February 02 2016 14:19 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
They'd just die to disruptor balls. Way too slow.
But they'd also provide a means to kill them before the shot goes off no?
EDIT: Or are they too short ranged now?
Not 100% sure, but I'd say your disruptor control would have to be pretty damn poor to get sniped by colossi, especially since they don't do all that much damage now.
Wait they nerfed damage AND range? Why keep the unit in the game then?
On February 02 2016 14:19 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
They'd just die to disruptor balls. Way too slow.
But they'd also provide a means to kill them before the shot goes off no?
EDIT: Or are they too short ranged now?
Not 100% sure, but I'd say your disruptor control would have to be pretty damn poor to get sniped by colossi, especially since they don't do all that much damage now.
Wait they nerfed damage AND range? Why keep the unit in the game then?
On February 02 2016 14:19 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
They'd just die to disruptor balls. Way too slow.
But they'd also provide a means to kill them before the shot goes off no?
EDIT: Or are they too short ranged now?
Not 100% sure, but I'd say your disruptor control would have to be pretty damn poor to get sniped by colossi, especially since they don't do all that much damage now.
Wait they nerfed damage AND range? Why keep the unit in the game then?
On February 02 2016 14:21 Phredxor wrote: I really hope the PvP meta changes or something. I grew to like HotS PvP, but I can't enjoy this
yeah PvP in HotS got interesting with all the different builds and ways to get advantages in the mid and late game, it was very diverse and exciting (except when it got deathbally, which it still is imo in LotV, just with actual balls)
It really depends, the deathballs in these games aren't as bad as the ones in HotS, but sometimes they are actually horrible when there are GIANT standoffs and u see billions of disruptor balls do nothing because they stand half a map away from eachother the entire game, these last few PvPs atleast we have a bit more stuff other than just the deathballs and theres action so I find that better than HotS Deathballs.
However for everything except deathballs HotS was better
On February 02 2016 14:19 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
They'd just die to disruptor balls. Way too slow.
But they'd also provide a means to kill them before the shot goes off no?
EDIT: Or are they too short ranged now?
Not 100% sure, but I'd say your disruptor control would have to be pretty damn poor to get sniped by colossi, especially since they don't do all that much damage now.
Wait they nerfed damage AND range? Why keep the unit in the game then?
The Mothership is still in the game. That should tell you everything you need to know about Blizzard's stance on physically removing units from multiplayer.
On February 02 2016 14:19 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
They'd just die to disruptor balls. Way too slow.
But they'd also provide a means to kill them before the shot goes off no?
EDIT: Or are they too short ranged now?
Not 100% sure, but I'd say your disruptor control would have to be pretty damn poor to get sniped by colossi, especially since they don't do all that much damage now.
Wait they nerfed damage AND range? Why keep the unit in the game then?
no range is the same
Really? I thought thermal lance range was nerfed
Also Byunjwa so OP he ladders while he waits
They reverted that nerf later on, but the damage is still laughably low sooooooo
On February 02 2016 14:30 KingofdaHipHop wrote: Phoenix vs Phoenix, always an interesting thing
There is actually a really cool new aspect to using Phoenix in LotV, you can just simply pick up disruptors and their ball doesn't do damage, so you charge in and pick up everything quick enough, but if you fuck up everything dies :D
On February 02 2016 14:19 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
They'd just die to disruptor balls. Way too slow.
But they'd also provide a means to kill them before the shot goes off no?
EDIT: Or are they too short ranged now?
Not 100% sure, but I'd say your disruptor control would have to be pretty damn poor to get sniped by colossi, especially since they don't do all that much damage now.
Wait they nerfed damage AND range? Why keep the unit in the game then?
The Mothership is still in the game. That should tell you everything you need to know about Blizzard's stance on physically removing units from multiplayer.
I played a game today that reminded me the mothership still exists
On February 02 2016 14:19 chipmonklord17 wrote: I feel like a few collosi would actually be useful in blink/disruptor wars. They would provide a less volatile way of picking off the disruptors long distance
They'd just die to disruptor balls. Way too slow.
But they'd also provide a means to kill them before the shot goes off no?
EDIT: Or are they too short ranged now?
Not 100% sure, but I'd say your disruptor control would have to be pretty damn poor to get sniped by colossi, especially since they don't do all that much damage now.
Wait they nerfed damage AND range? Why keep the unit in the game then?
no range is the same
Really? I thought thermal lance range was nerfed
Also Byunjwa so OP he ladders while he waits
They reverted that nerf later on, but the damage is still laughably low sooooooo
On February 02 2016 14:48 Superbanana wrote: Hey i heard you like proxy pylons so i put a proxy pylon proxied on your pylon so that you can shoot my pylon with your pylon.
back in my day you 7 pylon rushed without needing a pylon overcharge.
On February 02 2016 14:48 Superbanana wrote: Hey i heard you like proxy pylons so i put a proxy pylon proxied on your pylon so that you can shoot my pylon with your pylon.
back in my day you 7 pylon rushed without needing a pylon overcharge.
They are doing great today, Zest single game in PL was not as impressive. edit: sOs should start a transition i think, hoping to convert his advantage in a disruptor battle is bold.
On February 02 2016 14:48 Superbanana wrote: Hey i heard you like proxy pylons so i put a proxy pylon proxied on your pylon so that you can shoot my pylon with your pylon.
back in my day you 7 pylon rushed without needing a pylon overcharge.
I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
I might not like this PvP compared to HotS but ZvZ is always more stupid
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
Instead we should reward players for blindly picking the right opening build? Or maybe reward them for their control of units that function optimally on autopilot?
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
yeah but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch or fun to play
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
one thing to mention is that it's not only luck if you get a good disruptor shot. You force your opponent to look away by pressuring and harassing constantly so the better player should still win most of the times.
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
yeah but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch or fun to play
On February 02 2016 15:08 Superbanana wrote: Its frustrating to play, just like ling bane, but its fun to watch, just like ling bane.
Lingbane is only frustrating if you suck at it :D
Yea what is frustrating about LotV ZvZ is that you can't scout your opponent before making very very important desicions about how you play
Much different from bw/wol/hots zvz yes. Then again you can kill pool first with 13/12 and hold 13/12 with hatch first so it's weird a bit.
I think HotS was a bit better, WoL I didn't really watch a lot of ZvZ because I was still avoiding it, since it was my most hated MU to watch BY FAAR in BW
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
yeah but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch or fun to play
I have no opinion on how fun it is or isn't to play, but at least I can watch LotV PvP and say "the guy who won the series actually used quantifiable skills to win the series." Pretty important for a competition imo.
And in case it wasn't clear I found it very entertaining.
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
yeah but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch or fun to play
Idk that was probably one of the most fun PvP matches I've seen in years. HotS PvP was so boring imo...
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
yeah but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch or fun to play
I have no opinion on how fun it is or isn't to play, but at least I can watch LotV PvP and say "the guy who won the series actually used quantifiable skills to win the series." Pretty important for a competition imo.
And in case it wasn't clear I found it very entertaining.
Really? There are quantifiable skills (hmmm maybe not easy for a casual to se but someone like you should be able to see) to HotS PvP
On February 02 2016 15:08 Superbanana wrote: Its frustrating to play, just like ling bane, but its fun to watch, just like ling bane.
Lingbane is only frustrating if you suck at it :D
Yea what is frustrating about LotV ZvZ is that you can't scout your opponent before making very very important desicions about how you play
Much different from bw/wol/hots zvz yes. Then again you can kill pool first with 13/12 and hold 13/12 with hatch first so it's weird a bit.
I think HotS was a bit better, WoL I didn't really watch a lot of ZvZ because I was still avoiding it, since it was my most hated MU to watch BY FAAR in BW
Only prefered hots cause I liked to 8 pool a lot. Current zvz is more stable since 13/12 is weaker than an 8 pool vs hatch first.
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
yeah but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch or fun to play
I have no opinion on how fun it is or isn't to play, but at least I can watch LotV PvP and say "the guy who won the series actually used quantifiable skills to win the series." Pretty important for a competition imo.
And in case it wasn't clear I found it very entertaining.
Really? There are quantifiable skills (hmmm maybe not easy for a casual to se but someone like you should be able to see) to HotS PvP
I only saw two deathballs amoving at each other and then someone randomly wins
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
yeah but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch or fun to play
Idk that was probably one of the most fun PvP matches I've seen in years. HotS PvP was so boring imo...
To me PvP only got better, WoL was the worst, ZvZ had to wait for LotV.
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
yeah but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch or fun to play
I have no opinion on how fun it is or isn't to play, but at least I can watch LotV PvP and say "the guy who won the series actually used quantifiable skills to win the series." Pretty important for a competition imo.
And in case it wasn't clear I found it very entertaining.
Really? There are quantifiable skills (hmmm maybe not easy for a casual to se but someone like you should be able to see) to HotS PvP
I only saw two deathballs amoving at each other and then someone randomly wins
On February 02 2016 15:19 Phredxor wrote: Good to see PvP still splits everyone into love/hate. This expansion looks like it just reversed everyones opinions on it
I'd say it's a massive improvement over the usual Tempests vs Tempests we saw in HOTS. There were only a handful of PvP games that I thought were entertaining, and they've mostly been documented on TL in the best games to watch categories.
I'm going to bed so here's the witty remark I would have made for either outcome of the finals If ByuN wins: Not enough 0's in the prize pool for $O$ to care If sOs wins: Well, time to disappear for 3 years again ByuN
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
yeah but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch or fun to play
I have no opinion on how fun it is or isn't to play, but at least I can watch LotV PvP and say "the guy who won the series actually used quantifiable skills to win the series." Pretty important for a competition imo.
And in case it wasn't clear I found it very entertaining.
Really? There are quantifiable skills (hmmm maybe not easy for a casual to se but someone like you should be able to see) to HotS PvP
I only saw two deathballs amoving at each other and then someone randomly wins
I am sooo happy sOs won, but I damned hate these disruptor wars :-( So much random included in it. All the game was sOs leading, but it was all the time so tense, each shot could have completely changed the result. I am happy, the final is not PvP ...
On February 02 2016 15:19 Phredxor wrote: Good to see PvP still splits everyone into love/hate. This expansion looks like it just reversed everyones opinions on it
I'd say it's a massive improvement over the usual Tempests vs Tempests we saw in HOTS. There were only a handful of PvP games that I thought were entertaining, and they've mostly been documented on TL in the best games to watch categories.
Yeah lots of people agree with you. But for me it's the opposite so far.
On February 02 2016 15:04 Solar424 wrote: I want to see a ZvZ where there's an agreement that neither of them make army units other than zerglings and banelings and see if its stupider than this PvP meta.
The Disruptor is the only thing making PvP watchable.
Yeah the entire game, 20+ minutes should come down to a single skill shot every time. That is good game design.
It didn't come down to a single shot. There were fifty shots, and they all had a notable impact on the outcome of the game.
yeah but that doesn't make it entertaining to watch or fun to play
I have no opinion on how fun it is or isn't to play, but at least I can watch LotV PvP and say "the guy who won the series actually used quantifiable skills to win the series." Pretty important for a competition imo.
And in case it wasn't clear I found it very entertaining.
Really? There are quantifiable skills (hmmm maybe not easy for a casual to se but someone like you should be able to see) to HotS PvP
I only saw two deathballs amoving at each other and then someone randomly wins
most games were a lot more intricate than that
I know but those deathball battles were just a mystery to me. I had no idea why someone lost or won the fight.
I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
I only want WoL TvT back. FUCK
What, you dont want Mvp to "Drop. The. Hellbats. On. Him."
On February 02 2016 15:23 Superbanana wrote: So torn, love both of them, i am probably a bigger fan of sOs but he always win grand finals and its getting old
None of his big wins are older than the time he tried to pull Tempests against Innovation while down 0-3 in some WCS Finals way back when
Also, I want to see sOs get some revenge for the SSL qualifiers. Like, really?
On February 02 2016 15:23 Superbanana wrote: So torn, love both of them, i am probably a bigger fan of sOs but he always win grand finals and its getting old
None of his big wins are older than the time he tried to pull Tempests against Innovation while down 0-3 in some WCS Finals way back when
Still top 3 tournaments of all time for me right there.
On February 02 2016 15:23 Superbanana wrote: So torn, love both of them, i am probably a bigger fan of sOs but he always win grand finals and its getting old
None of his big wins are older than the time he tried to pull Tempests against Innovation while down 0-3 in some WCS Finals way back when
Also, I want to see sOs get some revenge for the SSL qualifiers. Like, really?
On February 02 2016 15:23 Superbanana wrote: So torn, love both of them, i am probably a bigger fan of sOs but he always win grand finals and its getting old
None of his big wins are older than the time he tried to pull Tempests against Innovation while down 0-3 in some WCS Finals way back when
Also, I want to see sOs get some revenge for the SSL qualifiers. Like, really?
Right! goddamit, that broke my heart, glad he is doing well at IEM.
On February 02 2016 15:21 pure.Wasted wrote: Am I crazy or does that Gigabyte ad use a song from final Fantasy 8? I'm like 99% sure. How the hell did they get the rights. O.o
This is the song for anyone who was wondering (part in ad starts at 0:50)
On February 02 2016 15:19 Phredxor wrote: Good to see PvP still splits everyone into love/hate. This expansion looks like it just reversed everyones opinions on it
I'd say it's a massive improvement over the usual Tempests vs Tempests we saw in HOTS. There were only a handful of PvP games that I thought were entertaining, and they've mostly been documented on TL in the best games to watch categories.
I don't remember Tempest vs Tempest being that usual, but the HotS PvP meta did feel like it had way more variety than the WoL PvP meta.
I still hated Colo vs Colo wars though. The unit itself is boring and only highlighted the deathball vs deathball, single-engagement stereotype that SC2 suffered before. I'm still waiting on hope of a Colossus redesign.
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
I only want WoL TvT back. FUCK
That's true. Disruptor shots literally one hit everything it gets to blow up on whereas back in HOTS, nothing was really one hit k-o. Maybe a nerf is in order? So far that's the only flaw I have with Disruptors and Ravagers, which is their attacks being way too strong.
What was WoL TvT like? I don't remember at all. Been easy too long.
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
I only want WoL TvT back. FUCK
That's true. Disruptor shots literally one hit everything it gets to blow up on whereas back in HOTS, nothing was really one hit k-o. Maybe a nerf is in order? So far that's the only flaw I have with Disruptors and Ravagers, which is their attacks being way too strong.
What was WoL TvT like? I don't remember at all. Been easy too long.
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
I only want WoL TvT back. FUCK
That's true. Disruptor shots literally one hit everything it gets to blow up on whereas back in HOTS, nothing was really one hit k-o. Maybe a nerf is in order? So far that's the only flaw I have with Disruptors and Ravagers, which is their attacks being way too strong.
What was WoL TvT like? I don't remember at all. Been easy too long.
Bio v mech at its peak sky wars like boxer v rain on Metalopolis, tank wars that pretty damn crazy, and more than simply be cheesy af
On February 02 2016 15:21 pure.Wasted wrote: Am I crazy or does that Gigabyte ad use a song from final Fantasy 8? I'm like 99% sure. How the hell did they get the rights. O.o
This is the song for anyone who was wondering (part in ad starts at 0:50)
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
I only want WoL TvT back. FUCK
That's true. Disruptor shots literally one hit everything it gets to blow up on whereas back in HOTS, nothing was really one hit k-o. Maybe a nerf is in order? So far that's the only flaw I have with Disruptors and Ravagers, which is their attacks being way too strong.
What was WoL TvT like? I don't remember at all. Been easy too long.
WoL TvT has multiple and varied build orders and could be played economically, strategically, tactically, aggressive, defensive, multiple compositions, aggressive, defensive, a combination of any of these, mindgames. It could be high octane or a slow burn into an explosion of movement. Each move had an impact on the rest of the map and changed the objectives of how both players had to play at any given time.
I generally account WoL TvT as the time when Polt/Mvp tactical and strategical revolutions became rote in the meta. Though there are games before then (Jinro vs Ensnare, MKP vs Nada TvTs) before then that are still worth watching.
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
I only want WoL TvT back. FUCK
That's true. Disruptor shots literally one hit everything it gets to blow up on whereas back in HOTS, nothing was really one hit k-o. Maybe a nerf is in order? So far that's the only flaw I have with Disruptors and Ravagers, which is their attacks being way too strong.
What was WoL TvT like? I don't remember at all. Been easy too long.
WoL TvT has multiple and varied build orders and could be played economically, strategically, tactically, aggressive, defensive, multiple compositions, aggressive, defensive, a combination of any of these, mindgames. It could be high octane or a slow burn into an explosion of movement. Each move had an impact on the rest of the map and changed the objectives of how both players had to play at any given time.
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
I only want WoL TvT back. FUCK
That's true. Disruptor shots literally one hit everything it gets to blow up on whereas back in HOTS, nothing was really one hit k-o. Maybe a nerf is in order? So far that's the only flaw I have with Disruptors and Ravagers, which is their attacks being way too strong.
What was WoL TvT like? I don't remember at all. Been easy too long.
WoL TvT has multiple and varied build orders and could be played economically, strategically, tactically, aggressive, defensive, multiple compositions, aggressive, defensive, a combination of any of these, mindgames. It could be high octane or a slow burn into an explosion of movement. Each move had an impact on the rest of the map and changed the objectives of how both players had to play at any given time.
I generally account WoL TvT as the time when Polt/Mvp tactical and strategical revolutions became rote in the meta. Though there are games before then (Jinro vs Ensnare, MKP vs Nada TvTs) before then that are still worth watching.
I agree the disruptor micro outweights other stuff too much, but i still think they are a great addition to PvP. A disruptor nerf sounds like a good idea, or just a change to make them more forgiving/less unforgiving. As long as they are not worse vs zerg ofc.
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
I only want WoL TvT back. FUCK
That's true. Disruptor shots literally one hit everything it gets to blow up on whereas back in HOTS, nothing was really one hit k-o. Maybe a nerf is in order? So far that's the only flaw I have with Disruptors and Ravagers, which is their attacks being way too strong.
What was WoL TvT like? I don't remember at all. Been easy too long.
WoL TvT has multiple and varied build orders and could be played economically, strategically, tactically, aggressive, defensive, multiple compositions, aggressive, defensive, a combination of any of these, mindgames. It could be high octane or a slow burn into an explosion of movement. Each move had an impact on the rest of the map and changed the objectives of how both players had to play at any given time.
I generally account WoL TvT as the time when Polt/Mvp tactical and strategical revolutions became rote in the meta. Though there are games before then (Jinro vs Ensnare, MKP vs Nada TvTs) before then that are still worth watching.
Well, that's a shame that TvT has changed then. Maybe make Medivacs boostless only in TvT?
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
I only want WoL TvT back. FUCK
That's true. Disruptor shots literally one hit everything it gets to blow up on whereas back in HOTS, nothing was really one hit k-o. Maybe a nerf is in order? So far that's the only flaw I have with Disruptors and Ravagers, which is their attacks being way too strong.
What was WoL TvT like? I don't remember at all. Been easy too long.
WoL TvT has multiple and varied build orders and could be played economically, strategically, tactically, aggressive, defensive, multiple compositions, aggressive, defensive, a combination of any of these, mindgames. It could be high octane or a slow burn into an explosion of movement. Each move had an impact on the rest of the map and changed the objectives of how both players had to play at any given time.
I generally account WoL TvT as the time when Polt/Mvp tactical and strategical revolutions became rote in the meta. Though there are games before then (Jinro vs Ensnare, MKP vs Nada TvTs) before then that are still worth watching.
Well, that's a shame that TvT has changed then. Maybe make Medivacs boostless?
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
I only want WoL TvT back. FUCK
That's true. Disruptor shots literally one hit everything it gets to blow up on whereas back in HOTS, nothing was really one hit k-o. Maybe a nerf is in order? So far that's the only flaw I have with Disruptors and Ravagers, which is their attacks being way too strong.
What was WoL TvT like? I don't remember at all. Been easy too long.
WoL TvT has multiple and varied build orders and could be played economically, strategically, tactically, aggressive, defensive, multiple compositions, aggressive, defensive, a combination of any of these, mindgames. It could be high octane or a slow burn into an explosion of movement. Each move had an impact on the rest of the map and changed the objectives of how both players had to play at any given time.
I generally account WoL TvT as the time when Polt/Mvp tactical and strategical revolutions became rote in the meta. Though there are games before then (Jinro vs Ensnare, MKP vs Nada TvTs) before then that are still worth watching.
Well, that's a shame that TvT has changed then. Maybe make Medivacs boostless?
On February 02 2016 15:21 pure.Wasted wrote: Am I crazy or does that Gigabyte ad use a song from final Fantasy 8? I'm like 99% sure. How the hell did they get the rights. O.o
This is the song for anyone who was wondering (part in ad starts at 0:50)
Good track. From the training mission in Dollet isn't it? FF soundtracks are always quality.
Hahaha yeah, "training mission." Go kill a giant flying chimera and then survive getting chased all over an enemy occupied town by a twenty foot tall mecha spider with a chaingun.
FF8 is criminally overlooked in the West, solid game and IMO the best FF soundtrack, or tied with 6.
On February 02 2016 15:45 LimitSEA wrote: Wow, Byun in a final. How long has he been not dead for? Last I heard, he'd disappeared, not even showing up to ProLeague's matches.
He showed up a few months before Blizzcon, playing in online chinese cups mostly. (and crushing them, he even got #1 on aligulac lol)
On February 02 2016 15:42 Noonius wrote: my body is ready for a terran tournament victory
Yea, too bad its not Maru v sOs
only time that terran is allowed to play against sOs is at the team house when sOs feels like practicing against an average, one can almost say foreign level terran
On February 02 2016 15:42 Noonius wrote: my body is ready for a terran tournament victory
Yea, too bad its not Maru v sOs
only time that terran is allowed to play against sOs is at the team house when sOs feels like practicing against an average, one can almost say foreign level terran
On February 02 2016 15:26 stuchiu wrote: I thought HotS PvP was smarter and had players predict/play probabilities more. The disruptor micro outweighs all other decisions in the game, but it's easy to quantify for spectators I guess. I'm not invested in it one way or the other.
On February 02 2016 15:23 Superbanana wrote: So torn, love both of them, i am probably a bigger fan of sOs but he always win grand finals and its getting old
None of his big wins are older than the time he tried to pull Tempests against Innovation while down 0-3 in some WCS Finals way back when
Also, I want to see sOs get some revenge for the SSL qualifiers. Like, really?
On February 02 2016 16:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote: That was bizarre. sOs looked like he couldn't lose at the fifth minute mark and then tempest/carriers happened...
He was just having fun/fucking with ByuN on purpose
On February 02 2016 16:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote: That was bizarre. sOs looked like he couldn't lose at the fifth minute mark and then tempest/carriers happened...
He was just having fun/fucking with ByuN on purpose
ByuN probably knew it was gg a while ago. Perhaps he was just testing out sOs.
On February 02 2016 16:08 ZigguratOfUr wrote: That was bizarre. sOs looked like he couldn't lose at the fifth minute mark and then tempest/carriers happened...
He was just having fun/fucking with ByuN on purpose
ByuN probably knew it was gg a while ago. Perhaps he was just testing out sOs.
On February 02 2016 16:17 Sif_ wrote: protoss greed is the new meta...still cant punish it hard enough it seems
Just attack.
This was a game where the oracle died to a WM without killing a single worker though...a few kills here and there and perhaps revelation/statis trap and P would've gotten away with that greed
On February 02 2016 16:17 Sif_ wrote: protoss greed is the new meta...still cant punish it hard enough it seems
Just attack.
This was a game where the oracle died to a WM without killing a single worker though...a few kills here and there and perhaps revelation/statis trap and P would've gotten away with that greed
Let's pretend the Oracle doesn't die, but that was a Widow Mine drop, it crushes Protoss. Just attack.
On February 02 2016 16:17 Sif_ wrote: protoss greed is the new meta...still cant punish it hard enough it seems
Just attack.
This was a game where the oracle died to a WM without killing a single worker though...a few kills here and there and perhaps revelation/statis trap and P would've gotten away with that greed
Let's pretend the Oracle doesn't die, but that was a Widow Mine drop, it crushes Protoss. Just attack.
On February 02 2016 16:17 Sif_ wrote: protoss greed is the new meta...still cant punish it hard enough it seems
Just attack.
This was a game where the oracle died to a WM without killing a single worker though...a few kills here and there and perhaps revelation/statis trap and P would've gotten away with that greed
Let's pretend the Oracle doesn't die, but that was a Widow Mine drop, it crushes Protoss. Just attack.
Not necessarily.
Of course not, but we are playing pretend, we can endlessly say "what if". He is pretending the Oracle doesn't die, I'm pretending there is a Widow Mine drop.
The fact is, sOs went greedy and got punished.
But Byun refuses to scout and sOs loves to play greedy. So here we are again. If Byun did a 1-1-1, he collects a free win.
On February 02 2016 16:30 Cricketer12 wrote: As someone who lived during the time when gold bases were removed due to Terran abuse, that was refreshing as hell.
On February 02 2016 16:30 Cricketer12 wrote: As someone who lived during the time when gold bases were removed due to Terran abuse, that was refreshing as hell.
Terran never abused them like that!
Yes and no, but this was one super mocking game for the hundreds of smaller, extremely regular instances
On February 02 2016 16:30 Cricketer12 wrote: As someone who lived during the time when gold bases were removed due to Terran abuse, that was refreshing as hell.
Terran never abused them like that!
Uhh yes, in WoL there were some unplayable maps thanks to Terrans and goldbases
I don't agree with Pig's analysis of the warp prism at all...he definitely doesn't play terran The warp prism only works because Byun isn't applying enough pressure and forcing warpins elsewhere, and never forces sOs to build early game units so he just gets huge gateway counts.
On February 02 2016 16:33 PinheadXXXXXX wrote: I don't agree with Pig's analysis of the warp prism at all...he definitely doesn't play terran The warp prism only works because Byun isn't applying enough pressure and forcing warpins elsewhere.
proxy vs proxy ALWAYS favors Protoss. It's always been that way.
Warp Gate gives you a choice of where those units are going to go. You have no such choice with Terran.
So this was a coinflip/build order win IMO. Byun should've made a liberator instead of a Widow Mine, but even then I don't think it would've made a difference.
On February 02 2016 16:41 Vindicare605 wrote: proxy vs proxy ALWAYS favors Protoss. It's always been that way.
Warp Gate gives you a choice of where those units are going to go. You have no such choice with Terran.
So this was a coinflip/build order win IMO. Byun should've made a liberator instead of a Widow Mine, but even then I don't think it would've made a difference.
extra barracks before CC and a few bunkers and he might have won
On February 02 2016 16:41 Vindicare605 wrote: proxy vs proxy ALWAYS favors Protoss. It's always been that way.
Warp Gate gives you a choice of where those units are going to go. You have no such choice with Terran.
So this was a coinflip/build order win IMO. Byun should've made a liberator instead of a Widow Mine, but even then I don't think it would've made a difference.
Spot on.
Unfortunate, but this must have tilted ByuN in a big way if he wasn't already.
On February 02 2016 16:41 Vindicare605 wrote: proxy vs proxy ALWAYS favors Protoss. It's always been that way.
Warp Gate gives you a choice of where those units are going to go. You have no such choice with Terran.
So this was a coinflip/build order win IMO. Byun should've made a liberator instead of a Widow Mine, but even then I don't think it would've made a difference.
extra barracks before CC and a few bunkers and he might have won
This is assuming he scouted what was going on, which he didn't.
On February 02 2016 16:45 Isualin wrote: Just started watching. Byun looked amazing in almost every match he played but looks like $o$ is going to win even after the patch
Because he's playing better, Byun forgets to scout and react, saying even after the patch seems to be implying that sOs only wins because of some OPness
But first place here is like $12,000. The starleagues first place is like 3 times this.
3 days vs 3 months
does sOs have a part-time job where he's not playing sc2?
He is part of a Proleague triumverant. He makes these insane builds. PL is a job by itself.
Well, less proleague this year. More time to focus on the Korean leagues.
Next one is isnt for awhile only 2 this year
Shhhhh OGN will defenitely bring back OSL once their new stadium is done in late february!!!!!
You just have to believe enough to make it true!
What happened to that other league with the dramatic semi final reaching
It still exists, you can win amazing 17bucks playing in it sooooooooo idk
does it still exist? Shouldn't we have heard more about it
Why? No english stream announced and its an amateur event, afaik there still also is the KeSPA run amateur event for players that didn't qualify for both CodeA (or was it Code S? ) and SSL and you don't hear anything for that either
On February 02 2016 16:39 Cricketer12 wrote: [quote] 3 days vs 3 months
does sOs have a part-time job where he's not playing sc2?
He is part of a Proleague triumverant. He makes these insane builds. PL is a job by itself.
Well, less proleague this year. More time to focus on the Korean leagues.
Next one is isnt for awhile only 2 this year
Shhhhh OGN will defenitely bring back OSL once their new stadium is done in late february!!!!!
You just have to believe enough to make it true!
What happened to that other league with the dramatic semi final reaching
It still exists, you can win amazing 17bucks playing in it sooooooooo idk
does it still exist? Shouldn't we have heard more about it
Why? No english stream announced and its an amateur event, afaik there still also is the KeSPA run amateur event for players that didn't qualify for both CodeA (or was it Code S? ) and SSL and you don't hear anything for that either
does sOs have a part-time job where he's not playing sc2?
He is part of a Proleague triumverant. He makes these insane builds. PL is a job by itself.
Well, less proleague this year. More time to focus on the Korean leagues.
Next one is isnt for awhile only 2 this year
Shhhhh OGN will defenitely bring back OSL once their new stadium is done in late february!!!!!
You just have to believe enough to make it true!
What happened to that other league with the dramatic semi final reaching
It still exists, you can win amazing 17bucks playing in it sooooooooo idk
does it still exist? Shouldn't we have heard more about it
Why? No english stream announced and its an amateur event, afaik there still also is the KeSPA run amateur event for players that didn't qualify for both CodeA (or was it Code S? ) and SSL and you don't hear anything for that either
Wait theres a thing like that?
Yes it was announced sometime last year and it happened and I never heard anything about it stopping so I assume its still going? Not sure how much it pays tho, its main purpose is for teams to see who they want to recruit
Question, can the warp prism position itself such that it can load and unload units into Byun's base from a range that the marines can't fire at the warp prism?
On February 02 2016 16:39 Cricketer12 wrote: [quote] 3 days vs 3 months
does sOs have a part-time job where he's not playing sc2?
He is part of a Proleague triumverant. He makes these insane builds. PL is a job by itself.
Well, less proleague this year. More time to focus on the Korean leagues.
Next one is isnt for awhile only 2 this year
Shhhhh OGN will defenitely bring back OSL once their new stadium is done in late february!!!!!
You just have to believe enough to make it true!
What happened to that other league with the dramatic semi final reaching
It still exists, you can win amazing 17bucks playing in it sooooooooo idk
does it still exist? Shouldn't we have heard more about it
Why? No english stream announced and its an amateur event, afaik there still also is the KeSPA run amateur event for players that didn't qualify for both CodeA (or was it Code S? ) and SSL and you don't hear anything for that either
Unfortunately the Won has weakened since the announcement so the prize is only of 16.58 now (USD that is. it's much more impressive in CAD like all things).
Well that was predictable. You can't give someone who executes mind games and rush tactics so well in all 3 match ups a map like Central Protocol and not expect him to stomp kids on it.
Considering how many brain dead fucks play hearthstone with the most retarded easy decks ever that card actual aint that good
I sense some salt in this post.
You have no idea...
Don't insult hearthstone players! I was 3 star masters in the beta and then stopped, when I was at the top, I take pride in that!
So was I, but do you have any idea how cancerous this shit is now?
Haven't really played since then, so no xD
Paladin has become more retarded than face hunter
Why?/How?
Shielded Minibot 2 mana 2/2 with div shield, Mysterious Challenger 6 mana 6/6 Battlecry: pull one of each secret from your deck onto field. Couple of really good secrets added. Really really really frustrating deck: Secret Pally
LOL at the Hearthstone haters. More popular, profitable, and possibly even more strategic than SC2? Hearthstone is the future. Frankly, I wonder why Blizzard still wants to waste money on this game considering they could be investing more into a fame with greater potential.
On February 02 2016 17:01 EatingBomber wrote: LOL at the Hearthstone haters. More popular, profitable, and possibly even more strategic than SC2? Hearthstone is the future. Frankly, I wonder why Blizzard still wants to waste money on this game considering they could be investing more into a fame with greater potential.
Man the standards for bait have really gone down in recent years...
I liked these finals a lot. I think sOs deserved his win and played with many different builds instead simply "Full Macro" or "Full All In"
TvP seems to be in a better spot now but I am still worried about PvZ and I hope if something is needed then it is to nerf Ravager/Lurker a little instead buffing Protoss.
On February 02 2016 17:01 EatingBomber wrote: LOL at the Hearthstone haters. More popular, profitable, and possibly even more strategic than SC2? Hearthstone is the future. Frankly, I wonder why Blizzard still wants to waste money on this game considering they could be investing more into a fame with greater potential.
? I still play it, its just in a really bad spot right now
Considering how many brain dead fucks play hearthstone with the most retarded easy decks ever that card actual aint that good
I sense some salt in this post.
You have no idea...
Don't insult hearthstone players! I was 3 star masters in the beta and then stopped, when I was at the top, I take pride in that!
So was I, but do you have any idea how cancerous this shit is now?
Haven't really played since then, so no xD
Paladin has become more retarded than face hunter
Why?/How?
Shielded Minibot 2 mana 2/2 with div shield, Mysterious Challenger 6 mana 6/6 Battlecry: pull one of each secret from your deck onto field. Couple of really good secrets added. Really really really frustrating deck: Secret Pally
On February 02 2016 17:01 EatingBomber wrote: LOL at the Hearthstone haters. More popular, profitable, and possibly even more strategic than SC2? Hearthstone is the future. Frankly, I wonder why Blizzard still wants to waste money on this game considering they could be investing more into a fame with greater potential.
That white mofo on their shoulder's keeps tellin'em it's wrong
On February 02 2016 17:02 pure.Wasted wrote: what a shitfest. And here I was, in my naivete, hoping for some cool Disruptor micro and some back and forth macro games.
On February 02 2016 17:01 EatingBomber wrote: LOL at the Hearthstone haters. More popular, profitable, and possibly even more strategic than SC2? Hearthstone is the future. Frankly, I wonder why Blizzard still wants to waste money on this game considering they could be investing more into a fame with greater potential.
LOL more strategic? At least half of the game's strategy comes down to blind luck.
On February 02 2016 16:58 Sif_ wrote: Terrans need to find that sweet spot between builds to be able to hold whatever may come from P
Yeah, it is called scouting.
You can't scout with two stalkers at your ramp
Not with that attitude
Byun was aware something was going on but sOs played that perfectly by going for a 1 immo timing. Either you're lucky and your army is in the right spot or you die.
But better calling me than actually playing some starcraft right.
On February 02 2016 17:02 pure.Wasted wrote: what a shitfest. And here I was, in my naivete, hoping for some cool Disruptor micro and some back and forth macro games.
With the way ByuN plays legacy, either he kills sOs early or loses, the game wont last long enough for disruptors
On February 02 2016 17:02 pure.Wasted wrote: what a shitfest. And here I was, in my naivete, hoping for some cool Disruptor micro and some back and forth macro games.
Disruptors in PvT? I don't think so!
You mean you didn't get your disruptor fix in the the PvP series? And there were some macro games...just more sort of one side-sided stomps.
On February 02 2016 17:02 pure.Wasted wrote: what a shitfest. And here I was, in my naivete, hoping for some cool Disruptor micro and some back and forth macro games.
You were one game away herO. ONE GAME!
Disruptor micro in PvT? You almost never build them other than against mech (sometimes) or in the suepr super lategame, Bio shits on diruptors
On February 02 2016 17:02 pure.Wasted wrote: what a shitfest. And here I was, in my naivete, hoping for some cool Disruptor micro and some back and forth macro games.
With the way ByuN plays legacy, either he kills sOs early or loses, the game wont last long enough for disruptors
The first game lasted long enough, but why build disruptors when you can build carriers and tempests?
On February 02 2016 17:02 pure.Wasted wrote: what a shitfest. And here I was, in my naivete, hoping for some cool Disruptor micro and some back and forth macro games.
You were one game away herO. ONE GAME!
Disruptor micro in PvT? You almost never build them other than against mech (sometimes) or in the suepr super lategame, Bio shits on diruptors
No no no, you get pheonix high temp to kill medi, then disruptor kills bio
On February 02 2016 17:02 pure.Wasted wrote: what a shitfest. And here I was, in my naivete, hoping for some cool Disruptor micro and some back and forth macro games.
With the way ByuN plays legacy, either he kills sOs early or loses, the game wont last long enough for disruptors
The first game lasted long enough, but why build disruptors when you can build carriers and tempests?
On February 02 2016 17:02 pure.Wasted wrote: what a shitfest. And here I was, in my naivete, hoping for some cool Disruptor micro and some back and forth macro games.
You were one game away herO. ONE GAME!
Disruptor micro in PvT? You almost never build them other than against mech (sometimes) or in the suepr super lategame, Bio shits on diruptors
And here I was, in my naivete, hoping that the entire point of introducing the Disruptor was to force Protoss to micro really really fucking hard to take engagements over Terran.
On February 02 2016 17:01 EatingBomber wrote: LOL at the Hearthstone haters. More popular, profitable, and possibly even more strategic than SC2? Hearthstone is the future. Frankly, I wonder why Blizzard still wants to waste money on this game considering they could be investing more into a fame with greater potential.
LOL more strategic? At least half of the game's strategy comes down to blind luck.
Stop deluding yourself. Strategy in Hearthstone is making calculated guesses and risks, deciding what is most efficient with the hand you are played, while considering what your opponent has from his prior plays.
SC2? Win an engagement, takes whole army across the map and wipes them out. 1a is so complex! Don't scout a cheese/proxy? Lose on the spot.
But please, continue living in a world where SC2 is 'strategic'.
On February 02 2016 16:58 Sif_ wrote: Terrans need to find that sweet spot between builds to be able to hold whatever may come from P
Yeah, it is called scouting.
You can't scout with two stalkers at your ramp
Not with that attitude
Byun was aware something was going on but sOs played that perfectly by going for a 1 immo timing. Either you're lucky and your army is in the right spot or you die.
But better calling me than actually playing some starcraft right.
On February 02 2016 17:01 EatingBomber wrote: LOL at the Hearthstone haters. More popular, profitable, and possibly even more strategic than SC2? Hearthstone is the future. Frankly, I wonder why Blizzard still wants to waste money on this game considering they could be investing more into a fame with greater potential.
LOL more strategic? At least half of the game's strategy comes down to blind luck.
Stop deluding yourself. Strategy in Hearthstone is making calculated guesses and risks, deciding what is most efficient with the hand you are played, while considering what your opponent has from his prior plays.
SC2? Win an engagement, takes whole army across the map and wipes them out. 1a is so complex! Don't scout a cheese/proxy? Lose on the spot.
But please, continue living in a world where SC2 is 'strategic'.
Hahaha, bold move to diss Starcraft like that on a Starcraft fan site of all places
On February 02 2016 16:58 Sif_ wrote: Terrans need to find that sweet spot between builds to be able to hold whatever may come from P
Yeah, it is called scouting.
You can't scout with two stalkers at your ramp
Not with that attitude
Byun was aware something was going on but sOs played that perfectly by going for a 1 immo timing. Either you're lucky and your army is in the right spot or you die.
But better calling me than actually playing some starcraft right.
On February 02 2016 17:01 EatingBomber wrote: LOL at the Hearthstone haters. More popular, profitable, and possibly even more strategic than SC2? Hearthstone is the future. Frankly, I wonder why Blizzard still wants to waste money on this game considering they could be investing more into a fame with greater potential.
LOL more strategic? At least half of the game's strategy comes down to blind luck.
Stop deluding yourself. Strategy in Hearthstone is making calculated guesses and risks, deciding what is most efficient with the hand you are played, while considering what your opponent has from his prior plays.
SC2? Win an engagement, takes whole army across the map and wipes them out. 1a is so complex! Don't scout a cheese/proxy? Lose on the spot.
But please, continue living in a world where SC2 is 'strategic'.
You actually just argued against yourself without even realizing it.
On February 02 2016 17:01 EatingBomber wrote: LOL at the Hearthstone haters. More popular, profitable, and possibly even more strategic than SC2? Hearthstone is the future. Frankly, I wonder why Blizzard still wants to waste money on this game considering they could be investing more into a fame with greater potential.
LOL more strategic? At least half of the game's strategy comes down to blind luck.
On February 02 2016 17:04 Cricketer12 wrote: Just realized no sOs in PL today... fuck my FPL...
I was hoping to maybe buy low on him later, but rip no trading
Exactly that was my plan ... he does not start well usually ... but what makes him a beast is a participation at a foreign tournament and winning it - then he performs great in Korea as well.
1a? let's see you playing a game outside of platinum league.
would you make disruptors against an open engagement versus mostly cracklings? ofc not. how about against mostly stimmed bio? it's possible, with enough numbers, enough buffer, and the right situation taking place in the game, but it's still widely cost inefficient when all it takes is a lull in dps to maneuver.
On February 02 2016 17:10 Noonius wrote: the patch changed NOTHING
Protoss win games -> bad patch!
Protoss win games because Protoss chose to do a build, as opposed to because Protoss had fantastic mechanics and multitasking -> bad patch.
Builds should not be strong. There should not be a thing called a "strong build that is hard to defend." Every single build should come down to execution. You want to all in with Stalkers and Adepts? Great, that means you're trying to win in 5 minutes instead of 20, so let's see you condense the amount of skill you'd normally display in a 20 minute game into a 5 minute window. Let's see you play better than you ever played before in your life. Then you win. GG.
Not this "I made units and they're pretty great and I made a Pylon and it's pretty great too unless you get a super lucky WM shot off at just the right second" nonsense. What an ill-conceived race. Protoss is Russian roulette except the gun is held together with duct tape and you slip extra bullets into the chamber when it's the other guy's turn to pull the trigger.
On February 02 2016 17:10 Noonius wrote: the patch changed NOTHING
Protoss win games -> bad patch!
Protoss win games because Protoss chose to do a build, as opposed to because Protoss had fantastic mechanics and multitasking -> bad patch.
Builds should not be strong. There should not be a thing called a "strong build that is hard to defend." Every single build should come down to execution. You want to all in with Stalkers and Adepts? Great, that means you're trying to win in 5 minutes instead of 20, so let's see you condense the amount of skill you'd normally display in a 20 minute game into a 5 minute window. Let's see you play better than you ever played before in your life. Then you win. GG.
Not this "I made units and they're pretty great and I made a Pylon and it's pretty great too unless you get a super lucky WM shot off at just the right second" nonsense. What an ill-conceived race.
If you allin and your opponent doesn't scout and doesn't prepare you lose, no matter the matchup.
On February 02 2016 16:29 Noonius wrote: gold bases are stupid
Just to see what kind of BS-er is criticizing the finals :-) According to him, gold bases are protoss bullshit :-) You can't take this kind of people seriously :-)
On February 02 2016 16:29 Noonius wrote: gold bases are stupid
Just to see what kind of BS-er is criticizing the finals :-) According to him, gold bases are protoss bullshit :-) You can't take this kind of people seriously :-)
On February 02 2016 16:29 Noonius wrote: gold bases are stupid
Just to see what kind of BS-er is criticizing the finals :-) According to him, gold bases are protoss bullshit :-) You can't take this kind of people seriously :-)
He also, god knows why, hates Maru.
The only stupid thing is that Proleague is starting in 30 minutes. This means going to sleep at noon :-( But it was worth it.
Two bad days and a player can be sidelined from individual competition for essentially half a year. This has already happened to Blizzcon champion sOs, for example.
I wonder if 12$k's enough to dry all them tears...
On February 02 2016 17:10 Noonius wrote: the patch changed NOTHING
Protoss win games -> bad patch!
Protoss win games because Protoss chose to do a build, as opposed to because Protoss had fantastic mechanics and multitasking -> bad patch.
Builds should not be strong. There should not be a thing called a "strong build that is hard to defend." Every single build should come down to execution. You want to all in with Stalkers and Adepts? Great, that means you're trying to win in 5 minutes instead of 20, so let's see you condense the amount of skill you'd normally display in a 20 minute game into a 5 minute window. Let's see you play better than you ever played before in your life. Then you win. GG.
Not this "I made units and they're pretty great and I made a Pylon and it's pretty great too unless you get a super lucky WM shot off at just the right second" nonsense. What an ill-conceived race.
If you allin and your opponent doesn't scout and doesn't prepare you lose, no matter the matchup.
Not sure if sarcastic or you accidentally mixed up who's supposed to win in your example.
On February 02 2016 17:10 Noonius wrote: the patch changed NOTHING
Protoss win games -> bad patch!
Protoss win games because Protoss chose to do a build, as opposed to because Protoss had fantastic mechanics and multitasking -> bad patch.
Builds should not be strong. There should not be a thing called a "strong build that is hard to defend." Every single build should come down to execution. You want to all in with Stalkers and Adepts? Great, that means you're trying to win in 5 minutes instead of 20, so let's see you condense the amount of skill you'd normally display in a 20 minute game into a 5 minute window. Let's see you play better than you ever played before in your life. Then you win. GG.
Not this "I made units and they're pretty great and I made a Pylon and it's pretty great too unless you get a super lucky WM shot off at just the right second" nonsense. What an ill-conceived race.
If you allin and your opponent doesn't scout and doesn't prepare you lose, no matter the matchup.
You say this like it is a fact of life, but it isn't. This is deliberate (or, more likely, accidental) game design. You cannot "all in" in chess, tennis, soccer, or hockey, and catch an opponent off guard because he didn't "scout and prepare." You can all in in poker, but that gives you no advantages; an all in can be read and reacted to exactly as easily as any other play.
It isn't a fact of RTS design, either. SC2 does not have to have extremely powerful aggressive openings that end games when unscouted/not flawlessly defended (although the attack itself is on autopilot). You know what SC2 not having these things looks like? Every good HotS TvZ, every good HotS TvT. Every TvP after WoL, from the Terran perspective. Making these strategies available propagates BO wins and helps shitty players beat better players, because scouting something will ALWAYS be harder than hiding it (unless you're Zerg).
TvP is a shit match up, and has been for years, because when it isn't Protoss deathballs slaying everything with lasers, it's Protoss forcing the Terran to play russian roulette. "Which build do you think I'm going to try to FUCKING END YOUR ENTIRE EXISTENCE with RIGHT NOW 30 SECONDS FROM NOW? I HOPE YOU GUESSED CORRECTLY AND THEN SCOUTED AND THEN DEFENDED IT ALSO." Or else you're dead. Even though you're Roger Federer and I only picked up a racquet last night for the first time. In what universe can this be called an entertaining and fair competition?
On February 02 2016 17:10 Noonius wrote: the patch changed NOTHING
Protoss win games -> bad patch!
Protoss win games because Protoss chose to do a build, as opposed to because Protoss had fantastic mechanics and multitasking -> bad patch.
Builds should not be strong. There should not be a thing called a "strong build that is hard to defend." Every single build should come down to execution. You want to all in with Stalkers and Adepts? Great, that means you're trying to win in 5 minutes instead of 20, so let's see you condense the amount of skill you'd normally display in a 20 minute game into a 5 minute window. Let's see you play better than you ever played before in your life. Then you win. GG.
Not this "I made units and they're pretty great and I made a Pylon and it's pretty great too unless you get a super lucky WM shot off at just the right second" nonsense. What an ill-conceived race.
If you allin and your opponent doesn't scout and doesn't prepare you lose, no matter the matchup.
Not if your opponents has pylons well placed lol. Maybe with the new patch but I think you hold most of T allins after FE.
On February 02 2016 22:20 Topin wrote: looks like this final have 2 big general groups:
sOs fans: great finals ByuN fans: stupid finals
i will probably be in the second group... but still, it could have been a fun series. going to watch the vods later. btw how were sOs vs herO games?
they were fairly entertaining. I was pretty tired during the whole ordeal so i dont remember everything, but I think the finals were really fun (as a fan of both). it was, well, sOs doing sOs things.
On February 02 2016 22:20 Topin wrote: looks like this final have 2 big general groups:
sOs fans: great finals ByuN fans: stupid finals
i will probably be in the second group... but still, it could have been a fun series. going to watch the vods later. btw how were sOs vs herO games?
they were fairly entertaining. I was pretty tired during the whole ordeal so i dont remember everything, but I think the finals were really fun (as a fan of both). it was, well, sOs doing sOs things.
I have to say: the level of amazing these LotV games are are making me embarrassed about how little I thought of the game during beta. LotV is simply fantastic. Let that general comment indicate how much I loved this tourney. Congrats sOs!
i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
Excellent description! Nobody else dares to pull this kind of strategies ...
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
Excellent description! Nobody else dares to pull this kind of strategies ...
He's by far the most successful and entertaining player for me. Other players like Maru, Life and Parting may have some sexy micro play, but their games can be rather predictable and one-dimensional after a while (like watching Marvel movies). Rogue has a bags of tricks too, but his plays still have a gimmicky feel and not good enough to beat top players at the highest level. Classic comes a distant second - he can be cheesy as hell, but also capable to macro up and play solid. (And for BW right now, Bisu is the most entertaining.)
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
Excellent description! Nobody else dares to pull this kind of strategies ...
He's by far the most successful and entertaining player for me. Other players like Maru, Life and Parting may have some sexy micro play, but their games can be rather predictable and one-dimensional after a while (like watching Marvel movies). Rogue has a bags of tricks too, but his plays still have a gimmicky feel and not good enough to beat top players at the highest level. Classic comes a distant second - he can be cheesy as hell, but also capable to macro up and play solid. (And for BW right now, Bisu is the most entertaining.)
Maybe it's just a Protoss bullshit thing
The same for me. He is very entertaining and primarily, he is not some "boring" robot, who perfectionized one style. He is very creative. Probably the most creative player from all current players. And it is not a creativity for the cost of losing, like Has.
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
Excellent description! Nobody else dares to pull this kind of strategies ...
He's by far the most successful and entertaining player for me. Other players like Maru, Life and Parting may have some sexy micro play, but their games can be rather predictable and one-dimensional after a while (like watching Marvel movies). Rogue has a bags of tricks too, but his plays still have a gimmicky feel and not good enough to beat top players at the highest level. Classic comes a distant second - he can be cheesy as hell, but also capable to macro up and play solid. (And for BW right now, Bisu is the most entertaining.)
Maybe it's just a Protoss bullshit thing
The same for me. He is very entertaining and primarily, he is not some "boring" robot, who perfectionized one style. He is very creative. Probably the most creative player from all current players. And it is not a creativity for the cost of losing, like Has.
That he manages to outsmart opponents at weekend tourneys (as opposed to straight-up outplay them using raw skill like Life, Taeja, Rain, etc.) probably also shows he's a natural creative genius (as opposed to having more time to be prepared by coaching and teammates).
It's a puzzle why he can't replicate his form in GSL and SSL. Maybe the preparation format negates his edge (opponents can prepare against him). Maybe Bo3 games don't favour his high-risk style (in a long series, he banks on winning more games than he drops). Maybe his true edge is handling sustained pressure in marathon tourneys better than any other player.
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
Excellent description! Nobody else dares to pull this kind of strategies ...
He's by far the most successful and entertaining player for me. Other players like Maru, Life and Parting may have some sexy micro play, but their games can be rather predictable and one-dimensional after a while (like watching Marvel movies). Rogue has a bags of tricks too, but his plays still have a gimmicky feel and not good enough to beat top players at the highest level. Classic comes a distant second - he can be cheesy as hell, but also capable to macro up and play solid. (And for BW right now, Bisu is the most entertaining.)
Maybe it's just a Protoss bullshit thing
The same for me. He is very entertaining and primarily, he is not some "boring" robot, who perfectionized one style. He is very creative. Probably the most creative player from all current players. And it is not a creativity for the cost of losing, like Has.
That he manages to outsmart opponents at weekend tourneys (as opposed to straight-up outplay them using raw skill like Life, Taeja, Rain, etc.) probably also shows he's a natural creative genius (as opposed to having more time to be prepared by coaching and teammates).
It's a puzzle why he can't replicate his form in GSL and SSL. Maybe the preparation format negates his edge (opponents can prepare against him). Maybe Bo3 games don't favour his high-risk style (in a long series, he banks on winning more games than he drops). Maybe his true edge is handling sustained pressure in marathon tourneys better than any other player.
I think, it has something to do with the internal motivation. I "lived" with him all the sad time in the middle of 2015. Not only he was losing games with mediocre opponents, he was also not playing well. Like he was not inspired. Not interested. And all the games, he won in the middle of 2015, he did not win by his great creative play, but by relying on his good micro and macro and waiting for the mistakes of the opponents and using them. But he was not "leading" the games. He was just reacting.
It was very sad compared with his yesterday's performance, when he was always setting the pace of the game. Then he found the inspiration at MSI and yesterday at IEM. And after that, he started playing well. I am so sorry that he will probably miss BlizzCon. That is so sad. I do not think that the current inspiration lasts for another 6 months to the next GSL and SSL. At least, we will see his genius at Proleague each week as the IEM victory should drive him for a few weeks / months more.
This talk about sOs winning in ways other Protoss can't makes me wonder: is it better, from a historical perspective, to win in a way nobody else ever can, or to win in a way that eventually gets, or already is, copied by everybody else?
On February 03 2016 16:34 Roadog wrote: This talk about sOs winning in ways other Protoss can't makes me wonder: is it better, from a historical perspective, to win in a way nobody else ever can, or to win in a way that eventually gets, or already is, copied by everybody else?
Probably the former. Shows that you were superhuman, god-like, one-in-a-million. Like Brazil and Spain winning the World Cups. Try as you might, you can't replicate their skills and styles (without years, if not decades, of careful nurturing from the grassroots).
Also, it's the former type of champions that keep winning. Because they can keep playing at a higher level than anyone else. Even if their skills and styles get copied, they have an extra gear to put them ahead again.
If Protoess players were to copy sOs' builds today and other players develop counters to them, he'll just come up with new builds and stay one step ahead of everyone else. He keeps winning in ways nobody else can because that's how he wins.
On February 03 2016 09:33 NonY wrote: i haven't actually seen a protoss play so greedy as sos did against byun. he'd do an early scout and see byun expanding and then would build almost no units while keeping all chrono on nexuses (more than i've ever seen before) and teching and taking a 3rd. he'd get out just enough to defend a light harass/pressure but would've died to more aggressive play from byun. it's like sos thought "well, with the recent balance changes, i can't do this safely anymore, but im still gonna do it in some games and see if byun already has builds prepared to punish me"
and then byun stopped doing fast expand builds and sos was like wellll i guess i have to all-in
i don't see the way sos played inspiring protoss to play like that and continue winning like that on this patch. i see that series as terrans thinking "i could have won these macro games if i were in byun's position" and byun probably kicking himself
sos has a way of playing the player so his games dont feel like they're good microcosms of the matchup at that moment. he figures out how to win a particular series, one series at a time
Much the same way Mvp used to.
sOs is a master at playing long series, I feel like his weakness is Bo3 series where he doesnt have the benefit of being able to mindgame his opponent over and over again.
He does builds and plays no one else can pull off or dares to pull off. His impressive Bo7 finals record shows that's he no fluke. He makes calculated gambles which usually pay off. His diversity in 'cheese' plays (economic or one-base all-in) shows that's he no one-trick pony. Only one with a deep understanding of the game can pull out so many tricks from his bag.
And he's a joy to watch. Like a poker player with big balls. Like a skilful footballer with a quick feet. He never fails to entertain, whether he's winning or losing.
Excellent description! Nobody else dares to pull this kind of strategies ...
He's by far the most successful and entertaining player for me. Other players like Maru, Life and Parting may have some sexy micro play, but their games can be rather predictable and one-dimensional after a while (like watching Marvel movies). Rogue has a bags of tricks too, but his plays still have a gimmicky feel and not good enough to beat top players at the highest level. Classic comes a distant second - he can be cheesy as hell, but also capable to macro up and play solid. (And for BW right now, Bisu is the most entertaining.)
Maybe it's just a Protoss bullshit thing
The same for me. He is very entertaining and primarily, he is not some "boring" robot, who perfectionized one style. He is very creative. Probably the most creative player from all current players. And it is not a creativity for the cost of losing, like Has.
That he manages to outsmart opponents at weekend tourneys (as opposed to straight-up outplay them using raw skill like Life, Taeja, Rain, etc.) probably also shows he's a natural creative genius (as opposed to having more time to be prepared by coaching and teammates).
It's a puzzle why he can't replicate his form in GSL and SSL. Maybe the preparation format negates his edge (opponents can prepare against him). Maybe Bo3 games don't favour his high-risk style (in a long series, he banks on winning more games than he drops). Maybe his true edge is handling sustained pressure in marathon tourneys better than any other player.
I think, it has something to do with the internal motivation. I "lived" with him all the sad time in the middle of 2015. Not only he was losing games with mediocre opponents, he was also not playing well. Like he was not inspired. Not interested. And all the games, he won in the middle of 2015, he did not win by his great creative play, but by relying on his good micro and macro and waiting for the mistakes of the opponents and using them. But he was not "leading" the games. He was just reacting.
It was very sad compared with his yesterday's performance, when he was always setting the pace of the game. Then he found the inspiration at MSI and yesterday at IEM. And after that, he started playing well. I am so sorry that he will probably miss BlizzCon. That is so sad. I do not think that the current inspiration lasts for another 6 months to the next GSL and SSL. At least, we will see his genius at Proleague each week as the IEM victory should drive him for a few weeks / months more.
Yes, his plays seem rather lacklustre and uninspiring in GSL and SSL somehow. Maybe he's told to focus more on Proleague.
On February 03 2016 16:34 Roadog wrote: This talk about sOs winning in ways other Protoss can't makes me wonder: is it better, from a historical perspective, to win in a way nobody else ever can, or to win in a way that eventually gets, or already is, copied by everybody else?
Probably the former. Shows that you were superhuman, god-like, one-in-a-million. Like Brazil and Spain winning the World Cups. Try as you might, you can't replicate their skills and styles (without years, if not decades, of careful nurturing from the grassroots).
Also, it's the former type of champions that keep winning. Because they can keep playing at a higher level than anyone else. Even if their skills and styles get copied, they have an extra gear to put them ahead again.
If Protoess players were to copy sOs' builds today and other players develop counters to them, he'll just come up with new builds and stay one step ahead of everyone else. He keeps winning in ways nobody else can because that's how he wins.
Spain won their WC with a godly goalkeeper... That has been done by Italy four years earlier lol
On February 04 2016 17:08 RichardNPL wrote: how can this be called an IEM with only 8 invited players 1 of them being retired and 3 foreigners. Easy money for sOs
It's just not the same after the WCS changes. I see this as a sort of little bone being thrown out by IEM, and unfortunately a shadow of previous IEM events with Koreans involved.
Has anyone noticed that in game 5 of sOs vs herO, herO loses ~20 supply worth of stalkers to his *own* Disruptor-shot? At 12:18 ingame time, or at the 1h15m34s mark of the following video:
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/DarkLordOlli/iemtaipei.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tgjCR.png)
Official Stream ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/M55je.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/951.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/647.jpg)
ByuN vs 
Soulkey![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1101.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/682.jpg)
sOs vs ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yTbVD.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MaqK8.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5mtjGsx.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/s5FqZ9L.png)
