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On September 26 2015 04:17 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:14 Rollora wrote:On September 26 2015 04:08 HellHound wrote:On September 26 2015 04:05 Rollora wrote:On September 26 2015 03:58 joshie0808 wrote:On September 26 2015 03:56 Rollora wrote:On September 26 2015 03:52 CheddarToss wrote:On September 26 2015 03:49 Rollora wrote:
I wonder if sOs would have ANY success if there wasn't so much cheese avaliable and he was forced to play a macro game without bullshit Of course. no he wouldn't. DIdn't see ONE straightup, "honest" macro game without bullshit, he doesn't even know how to play it Lol so salty, sc is a game of hidden information. Go watch chess if you want 'honest' games where everyone knows everything. SoS is just playing the game. Not hard for Solar to scout better. Solar 9 pooled this game and SoS scouted. Just how things work out you mean protoss is the race of hidden things. There is a difference between leaving someone in the dark as long as possible (for terran: hiding you go mech or bio or so, for terran hide buildings), but the only race that works so often JUST because it has hidden something or you can win only because you hid something (not because of skill) is protoss. Not saying sOs has no skill, on the contrary the huge variety of builds he knows impresses me, and reading his opponent, comebacks, mindgames... and yeah, lol i should watch chess.... or ANY other sport, because I cannot remember andy sport that works that way: hide something to surprise the oponent and if he isn't prepared then you win. The only thing that reminds me of is faking an injury/foul in soccer to win by penalties if you are the worse team and cannot score goals by yourself And stop that bullshit statement of scouting better. you can hide things so they can NOT be scouted Every sport and game has hidden information SC2 is just more blatant about it. Protoss having the most varied cheeses is a fact no one right in the head is arguing that so there is no need to repeat it over and over :D Sorry, it just annoys me, that you can win a game solely by surprising an enemy  It really kills the fun for me. It completely takes it away for me, and many others. Its bad design I think Starcraft is a great game if you have a fun, macro games against zerg or terran, even toss if you have one that doesn't cheese. But it immidiately gets frustrating, more then a normal loss, when you lose JUST because of BS. I hope you understand my frustration  You're probably only going to lose to a surprise if you take risks. Though at a top-level I admit it's necessary to take risks sometimes. I do think you're blowing things out of proportion, people seem to think PvP is hast he most luck and bullshit yet someone like Zest has an insane PvP winrate vs other Koreans despite PvP's reputation.
the problem if you ladder you take risks by every choice(because you don't know the opponent). If you play save (meaning not taking too much risk) you are behind from the very start if the opponent plays greedy... you know the struggle :D
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On September 26 2015 04:19 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:17 chipmonklord17 wrote:On September 26 2015 04:16 Psychonian wrote:
dark.
fucking.
shrine.
i have no words. I really don't get the stargate into DT thing. You force the zerg into make spores because of the stargate and then you're already detected Thats the mindgame, hail Inca
Blizzard allows Zerg to salvage spores, ZvP winrates drop by 5%
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save us sOs from ZvZ
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 26 2015 04:17 chipmonklord17 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:16 Psychonian wrote:
dark.
fucking.
shrine.
i have no words. I really don't get the stargate into DT thing. You force the zerg into make spores because of the stargate and then you're already detected
BISUUUU
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FF's continue to be hella lame
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if sos wins this game without making a carrier or tempests I will be very very very sad
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On September 26 2015 04:14 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:08 HellHound wrote:On September 26 2015 04:05 Rollora wrote:On September 26 2015 03:58 joshie0808 wrote:On September 26 2015 03:56 Rollora wrote:On September 26 2015 03:52 CheddarToss wrote:On September 26 2015 03:49 Rollora wrote:
I wonder if sOs would have ANY success if there wasn't so much cheese avaliable and he was forced to play a macro game without bullshit Of course. no he wouldn't. DIdn't see ONE straightup, "honest" macro game without bullshit, he doesn't even know how to play it Lol so salty, sc is a game of hidden information. Go watch chess if you want 'honest' games where everyone knows everything. SoS is just playing the game. Not hard for Solar to scout better. Solar 9 pooled this game and SoS scouted. Just how things work out you mean protoss is the race of hidden things. There is a difference between leaving someone in the dark as long as possible (for terran: hiding you go mech or bio or so, for terran hide buildings), but the only race that works so often JUST because it has hidden something or you can win only because you hid something (not because of skill) is protoss. Not saying sOs has no skill, on the contrary the huge variety of builds he knows impresses me, and reading his opponent, comebacks, mindgames... and yeah, lol i should watch chess.... or ANY other sport, because I cannot remember andy sport that works that way: hide something to surprise the oponent and if he isn't prepared then you win. The only thing that reminds me of is faking an injury/foul in soccer to win by penalties if you are the worse team and cannot score goals by yourself And stop that bullshit statement of scouting better. you can hide things so they can NOT be scouted Every sport and game has hidden information SC2 is just more blatant about it. Protoss having the most varied cheeses is a fact no one right in the head is arguing that so there is no need to repeat it over and over :D Sorry, it just annoys me, that you can win a game solely by surprising an enemy It really kills the fun for me. It completely takes it away for me, and many others. Its bad design I think Starcraft is a great game if you have a fun, macro games against zerg or terran, even toss if you have one that doesn't cheese. But it immidiately gets frustrating, more then a normal loss, when you lose JUST because of BS. I hope you understand my frustration
I definitely agree with your overall sentiment tbh.
I think if we saw many more games like this I would find it quite annoying too.
But as I watch SO much starcraft... throwing SoS or Has in and expecting the strange cheese and balls-to-the-wall gambles changes the pace up enough from the typical 'macro game' that I guess I just try and appreciate it for what it is.
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On September 26 2015 04:20 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:17 chipmonklord17 wrote:On September 26 2015 04:16 Psychonian wrote:
dark.
fucking.
shrine.
i have no words. I really don't get the stargate into DT thing. You force the zerg into make spores because of the stargate and then you're already detected BISUUUU
oracles don't kill overseers
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On September 26 2015 04:19 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:19 stuchiu wrote:On September 26 2015 04:17 chipmonklord17 wrote:On September 26 2015 04:16 Psychonian wrote:
dark.
fucking.
shrine.
i have no words. I really don't get the stargate into DT thing. You force the zerg into make spores because of the stargate and then you're already detected Thats the mindgame, hail Inca Blizzard allows Zerg to salvage spores, ZvP winrates drop by 5%
lol
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"I made a career out of being wrong, that is much more impressive" - Rotti, 2015
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On September 26 2015 04:20 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:20 Zealously wrote:On September 26 2015 04:17 chipmonklord17 wrote:On September 26 2015 04:16 Psychonian wrote:
dark.
fucking.
shrine.
i have no words. I really don't get the stargate into DT thing. You force the zerg into make spores because of the stargate and then you're already detected BISUUUU oracles don't kill overseers
Unfortunate, but merely a detail
should have gotten phoenixes
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On September 26 2015 04:21 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:20 Ej_ wrote:On September 26 2015 04:20 Zealously wrote:On September 26 2015 04:17 chipmonklord17 wrote:On September 26 2015 04:16 Psychonian wrote:
dark.
fucking.
shrine.
i have no words. I really don't get the stargate into DT thing. You force the zerg into make spores because of the stargate and then you're already detected BISUUUU oracles don't kill overseers Unfortunate, but merely a detail should have gotten phoenixes
that build actually exists!
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GOGO SOS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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On September 26 2015 04:21 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:20 Ej_ wrote:On September 26 2015 04:20 Zealously wrote:On September 26 2015 04:17 chipmonklord17 wrote:On September 26 2015 04:16 Psychonian wrote:
dark.
fucking.
shrine.
i have no words. I really don't get the stargate into DT thing. You force the zerg into make spores because of the stargate and then you're already detected BISUUUU oracles don't kill overseers Unfortunate, but merely a detail should have gotten phoenixes
the DTs are the important part anyways
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On September 26 2015 04:20 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:20 Zealously wrote:On September 26 2015 04:17 chipmonklord17 wrote:On September 26 2015 04:16 Psychonian wrote:
dark.
fucking.
shrine.
i have no words. I really don't get the stargate into DT thing. You force the zerg into make spores because of the stargate and then you're already detected BISUUUU oracles don't kill overseers
I think it was to use them defensively actually. As in that Coda game.
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On September 26 2015 04:17 ZAiNs wrote:Show nested quote +On September 26 2015 04:14 Rollora wrote:On September 26 2015 04:08 HellHound wrote:On September 26 2015 04:05 Rollora wrote:On September 26 2015 03:58 joshie0808 wrote:On September 26 2015 03:56 Rollora wrote:On September 26 2015 03:52 CheddarToss wrote:On September 26 2015 03:49 Rollora wrote:
I wonder if sOs would have ANY success if there wasn't so much cheese avaliable and he was forced to play a macro game without bullshit Of course. no he wouldn't. DIdn't see ONE straightup, "honest" macro game without bullshit, he doesn't even know how to play it Lol so salty, sc is a game of hidden information. Go watch chess if you want 'honest' games where everyone knows everything. SoS is just playing the game. Not hard for Solar to scout better. Solar 9 pooled this game and SoS scouted. Just how things work out you mean protoss is the race of hidden things. There is a difference between leaving someone in the dark as long as possible (for terran: hiding you go mech or bio or so, for terran hide buildings), but the only race that works so often JUST because it has hidden something or you can win only because you hid something (not because of skill) is protoss. Not saying sOs has no skill, on the contrary the huge variety of builds he knows impresses me, and reading his opponent, comebacks, mindgames... and yeah, lol i should watch chess.... or ANY other sport, because I cannot remember andy sport that works that way: hide something to surprise the oponent and if he isn't prepared then you win. The only thing that reminds me of is faking an injury/foul in soccer to win by penalties if you are the worse team and cannot score goals by yourself And stop that bullshit statement of scouting better. you can hide things so they can NOT be scouted Every sport and game has hidden information SC2 is just more blatant about it. Protoss having the most varied cheeses is a fact no one right in the head is arguing that so there is no need to repeat it over and over :D Sorry, it just annoys me, that you can win a game solely by surprising an enemy It really kills the fun for me. It completely takes it away for me, and many others. Its bad design I think Starcraft is a great game if you have a fun, macro games against zerg or terran, even toss if you have one that doesn't cheese. But it immidiately gets frustrating, more then a normal loss, when you lose JUST because of BS. I hope you understand my frustration You're probably only going to lose to a surprise if you take risks. Though at a top-level I admit it's necessary to take risks sometimes. I do think you're blowing things out of proportion, people seem to think PvP is hast he most luck and bullshit yet someone like Zest has an insane PvP winrate vs other Koreans despite PvP's reputation.
Oh lol someone is arguing that protoss isn't a bag of bullshit haha
If you play safe in to cheese it makes it harder to defend earlier timings
If you play safe vs early timings you expose yourself to later timings
Playing safe vs later timings involve skipping safety measures to early timings/cheese to get more econ before they hit.
Balancing those is what zvp is about.
There is no one safe build.
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EPT
