• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 16:59
CEST 22:59
KST 05:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2914Serral wins Maestros of the Game 243ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12
Community News
Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard"2ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live!20Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters2Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)89Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format17
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Reynor: GSL Loss Wasn't About Preparation Format How would you feel about frequent/monthly balance patches for SC2? Clem: "I don't have that much hope in Blizzard" Weekly Cups (July 13-19): Terran & Protoss rise; Zerg falters
Tourneys
IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly INu's Battles#18 - Cure, herO, Rogue & ByuN RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) WardiTV Summer Cup 2026
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
[M] (2) Industrial Park New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate
External Content
Mutation # 535 Assembly of Vengeance The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 534 Burning Evacuation Mutation # 533 Die Together
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion How Famous was FlaSh before his Debut? Animated Gateway BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ HORROR STARCRAFT MOVIE
Tourneys
Escore Tournament - Season 3 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [IPSL] Spring 2026 Grand Finals - This Weekend! Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers PvT advise for noobs Fighting Spirit mining rates Creating a full chart of Zerg builds
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile ZeroSpace Early Access is Now Live! Nintendo Switch Thread General RTS Discussion Thread Diablo IV
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread How to buy a book - shipping from Korea to Europe The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Series you have seen recently... Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 McBoner: A hockey love story
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Simple Questions Simple Answers FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop
TL Community
Northern Ireland Global Starcraft The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Games can Help with Majo…
TrAiDoS
Hello guys!
LIN1s
ASL S22 English Commentary…
namkraft
Poker (part 2)
Nebuchad
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 3249 users

[S2SL] Challenge Day 1 Season 2 2015 - Page 32

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 30 31 32 33 34 Next All
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
April 02 2015 15:37 GMT
#621
On April 03 2015 00:36 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:31 stuchiu wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:27 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:24 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:23 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:22 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:20 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote:
SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol

Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.


Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.

With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.

His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.


Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.

The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.

The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.


You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.

The game against Leenock was on the back of a failed quasi all-in by Leenock, but it's not like Flash took 0 damage. And I did say he needs to work on getting there more safely and do more pressure, so I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here :S.


That if he plays safe and more solid he's sacrificing late game strength.
Moderator
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
April 02 2015 15:40 GMT
#622
On April 03 2015 00:34 Alucen-Will- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:31 stuchiu wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:27 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:24 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:23 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:22 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:20 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote:
SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol

Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.


Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.

With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.

His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.


Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.

The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.

The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.


You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.


Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran.
Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.

Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.


That style is fine. I mean that's exactly how MarineKing played for years before he got exposed. But at the end of the day he's taking more risks to play at a level that Innovation can get to when Innovation is playing safe. There is a reason Flash has been losing to "worse" players while Innovation has only lost to players of his caliber in ZvT.
Moderator
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55589 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-02 15:44:45
April 02 2015 15:43 GMT
#623
On April 03 2015 00:37 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:36 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:31 stuchiu wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:27 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:24 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:23 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:22 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:20 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote:
SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol

Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.


Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.

With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.

His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.


Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.

The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.

The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.


You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.

The game against Leenock was on the back of a failed quasi all-in by Leenock, but it's not like Flash took 0 damage. And I did say he needs to work on getting there more safely and do more pressure, so I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here :S.


That if he plays safe and more solid he's sacrificing late game strength.

By playing more safe, what I meant is actually scout what the opponent is doing (unlike in game 1 and 3 against Leenock where he didn't scout enough), react appropriately (I guess he has that pretty much down) and then don't be wasteful with his units. Not saying he should turtle even more, I already think his moveouts are quite timid, and there comes a certain point in TvZ late game where you basically can't win the game anymore because you didn't do damage.

Just saying that if he really wants to play greedy, he should absolutely make sure he doesn't die to an all-in, and then be careful with his units. Losing those hellions on EL? Throwing away hellbats and overstimming before medivacs? Unacceptable.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Alucen-Will-
Profile Joined October 2014
United States4054 Posts
April 02 2015 15:44 GMT
#624
On April 03 2015 00:40 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:34 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:31 stuchiu wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:27 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:24 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:23 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:22 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:20 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote:
SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol

Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.


Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.

With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.

His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.


Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.

The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.

The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.


You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.


Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran.
Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.

Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.


That style is fine. I mean that's exactly how MarineKing played for years before he got exposed. But at the end of the day he's taking more risks to play at a level that Innovation can get to when Innovation is playing safe. There is a reason Flash has been losing to "worse" players while Innovation has only lost to players of his caliber in ZvT.


Not really, MarineKing's builds were often reckless; Flash takes precaution in his super greedy style, where MarineKing/Bomber would not. Also Marineking's style is mostly based around mid-game heavy marine aggression combined with elite level mechanics.

Innovation is really a mechanical monster in the truest form. His style is so solid because of his execution, in longer macro games his solidity can fade to smarter players. Innovation can't stomach macro games in the way flash can, let alone not choke under the pressure

Here is one of my favorite games of HOTS to show this: (a bit old)

The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
April 02 2015 15:45 GMT
#625
Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel.
He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Alucen-Will-
Profile Joined October 2014
United States4054 Posts
April 02 2015 15:46 GMT
#626
On April 03 2015 00:43 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:37 stuchiu wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:36 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:31 stuchiu wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:27 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:24 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:23 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:22 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:20 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote:
SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol

Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.


Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.

With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.

His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.


Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.

The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.

The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.


You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.

The game against Leenock was on the back of a failed quasi all-in by Leenock, but it's not like Flash took 0 damage. And I did say he needs to work on getting there more safely and do more pressure, so I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here :S.


That if he plays safe and more solid he's sacrificing late game strength.

By playing more safe, what I meant is actually scout what the opponent is doing (unlike in game 1 and 3 against Leenock where he didn't scout enough), react appropriately (I guess he has that pretty much down) and then don't be wasteful with his units. Not saying he should turtle even more, I already think his moveouts are quite timid, and there comes a certain point in TvZ late game where you basically can't win the game anymore because you didn't do damage.

Just saying that if he really wants to play greedy, he should absolutely make sure he doesn't die to an all-in, and then be careful with his units. Losing those hellions on EL? Throwing away hellbats and overstimming before medivacs? Unacceptable.


This is exactly right. Flash took some educated risks in those games and paid the price. I would assume these risks were on the back of a study of Leenock's style.

The weakness of Flash right now are:

1. Not taking enough precautions in the early game
2. Being overzealous in engagements/situations where he can win
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
April 02 2015 15:47 GMT
#627
Wow those results... What happened to Rogue ?
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
Alucen-Will-
Profile Joined October 2014
United States4054 Posts
April 02 2015 15:49 GMT
#628
On April 03 2015 00:47 Boucot wrote:
Wow those results... What happened to Rogue ?


jet lag
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
April 02 2015 15:51 GMT
#629
On April 03 2015 00:44 Alucen-Will- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:40 stuchiu wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:34 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:31 stuchiu wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:27 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:24 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:23 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:22 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:20 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote:
SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol

Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.


Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.

With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.

His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.


Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.

The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.

The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.


You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.


Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran.
Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.

Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.


That style is fine. I mean that's exactly how MarineKing played for years before he got exposed. But at the end of the day he's taking more risks to play at a level that Innovation can get to when Innovation is playing safe. There is a reason Flash has been losing to "worse" players while Innovation has only lost to players of his caliber in ZvT.


Not really, MarineKing's builds were often reckless; Flash takes precaution in his super greedy style, where MarineKing/Bomber would not. Also Marineking's style is mostly based around mid-game heavy marine aggression combined with elite level mechanics.

Innovation is really a mechanical monster in the truest form. His style is so solid because of his execution, in longer macro games his solidity can fade to smarter players. Innovation can't stomach macro games in the way flash can, let alone not choke under the pressure

Here is one of my favorite games of HOTS to show this: (a bit old)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqD5zjFQQv4


Flash lost to Hydra, Shine and Leenock going CC first. I dunno about his builds being less reckless than MarineKing's. And I do respect Flash's TvT. It's the only matchup where I actually see him thinking and making strategic decision whereas in TvZ and TvP he attacks in like a bulldog and more often than not dies. And even if he gets to the late game, if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision. That's just being stubborn.

And I don't think you can quantify something like Flash's clutch when he's only played in 2 finals, one he lost with hellbat drops and WMs to Life. Especially against someone so known for anti-clutch like Innovation. (I think almost every player has shown more clutch than Inno). The other he won against Zest post WM-buff before Protoss had learned to adapt (though I think even now Flash's TvP is better than Zest's whose PvT has always been his worst).
Moderator
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55589 Posts
April 02 2015 15:56 GMT
#630
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel.
He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)

He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.

Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Alucen-Will-
Profile Joined October 2014
United States4054 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-02 16:00:08
April 02 2015 15:56 GMT
#631
On April 03 2015 00:51 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:44 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:40 stuchiu wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:34 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:31 stuchiu wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:27 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:24 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:23 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:22 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:20 Elentos wrote:
[quote]
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.


Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.

With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.

His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.


Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.

The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.

The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.


You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.


Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran.
Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.

Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.


That style is fine. I mean that's exactly how MarineKing played for years before he got exposed. But at the end of the day he's taking more risks to play at a level that Innovation can get to when Innovation is playing safe. There is a reason Flash has been losing to "worse" players while Innovation has only lost to players of his caliber in ZvT.


Not really, MarineKing's builds were often reckless; Flash takes precaution in his super greedy style, where MarineKing/Bomber would not. Also Marineking's style is mostly based around mid-game heavy marine aggression combined with elite level mechanics.

Innovation is really a mechanical monster in the truest form. His style is so solid because of his execution, in longer macro games his solidity can fade to smarter players. Innovation can't stomach macro games in the way flash can, let alone not choke under the pressure

Here is one of my favorite games of HOTS to show this: (a bit old)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqD5zjFQQv4


Flash lost to Hydra, Shine and Leenock going CC first. I dunno about his builds being less reckless than MarineKing's. And I do respect Flash's TvT. It's the only matchup where I actually see him thinking and making strategic decision whereas in TvZ and TvP he attacks in like a bulldog and more often than not dies. And even if he gets to the late game, if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision. That's just being stubborn.

And I don't think you can quantify something like Flash's clutch when he's only played in 2 finals, one he lost with hellbat drops and WMs to Life. Especially against someone so known for anti-clutch like Innovation. (I think almost every player has shown more clutch than Inno). The other he won against Zest post WM-buff before Protoss had learned to adapt (though I think even now Flash's TvP is better than Zest's whose PvT has always been his worst).


Eh, a lot of Terran's go cc first on 2 player maps, you just need to scout with it so you don't lose to 10 pool/speedling all in/ling/baneling bust.

Also Flash's win against Zest in Toronto was him being better than Zest..coming from a Zest fan. I'm not really sure where you are going with that one.

I guess I should go more in-depth about the differences between Flash greed and MKP/Bomber greed, but I have to leave in 10 minutes >.>.

Ex. Marineking will do like 1 rax, 3 cc, double ebay (he did recently in proleague)

Here's a good example of bomber greed:

Alucen-Will-
Profile Joined October 2014
United States4054 Posts
April 02 2015 15:57 GMT
#632
On April 03 2015 00:56 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel.
He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)

He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.

Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<


This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55589 Posts
April 02 2015 16:03 GMT
#633
On April 03 2015 00:51 stuchiu wrote:
if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision..

Seems a bit patronising. "Players like" Life or soO are pretty rare, you know. Life being the best Zerg and soO being probably the best macro Zerg throughout 2014.

That series against soO, specifically. He made a mistake in the engagement, going in without vision onto the creep, and found himself nearly surrounded with no point of retreat. Immediately after the fight soO got onto his production. And that happened in 2 of those games. These things can happen, but they shouldn't, those are the mistakes Flash has to get out of his play to become better.

However, today his play was just shaky and full of mistakes in general, some mistakes minor (wasting scans when not needed against burrowed roaches and not even getting all of them) and some major (not lifting a CC under attack by zerglings).
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Alucen-Will-
Profile Joined October 2014
United States4054 Posts
April 02 2015 16:04 GMT
#634
On April 03 2015 01:03 Elentos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:51 stuchiu wrote:
if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision..

Seems a bit patronising. "Players like" Life or soO are pretty rare, you know. Life being the best Zerg and soO being probably the best macro Zerg throughout 2014.

That series against soO, specifically. He made a mistake in the engagement, going in without vision onto the creep, and found himself nearly surrounded with no point of retreat. Immediately after the fight soO got onto his production. And that happened in 2 of those games. These things can happen, but they shouldn't, those are the mistakes Flash has to get out of his play to become better.

However, today his play was just shaky and full of mistakes in general, some mistakes minor (wasting scans when not needed against burrowed roaches and not even getting all of them) and some major (not lifting a CC under attack by zerglings).


Elentos, the savior of truth and knowledge in esports :D
The_Red_Viper
Profile Blog Joined August 2013
19533 Posts
April 02 2015 16:06 GMT
#635
On April 03 2015 00:57 Alucen-Will- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:56 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel.
He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)

He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.

Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<


This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.

WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2?
I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game
IU | Sohyang || There is no God and we are his prophets | For if ‘Thou mayest’—it is also true that ‘Thou mayest not.” | Ignorance is the parent of fear |
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55589 Posts
April 02 2015 16:06 GMT
#636
On April 03 2015 01:04 Alucen-Will- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 01:03 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:51 stuchiu wrote:
if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision..

Seems a bit patronising. "Players like" Life or soO are pretty rare, you know. Life being the best Zerg and soO being probably the best macro Zerg throughout 2014.

That series against soO, specifically. He made a mistake in the engagement, going in without vision onto the creep, and found himself nearly surrounded with no point of retreat. Immediately after the fight soO got onto his production. And that happened in 2 of those games. These things can happen, but they shouldn't, those are the mistakes Flash has to get out of his play to become better.

However, today his play was just shaky and full of mistakes in general, some mistakes minor (wasting scans when not needed against burrowed roaches and not even getting all of them) and some major (not lifting a CC under attack by zerglings).


Elentos, the savior of truth and knowledge in esports :D

If only that was worth anything <.<
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Alucen-Will-
Profile Joined October 2014
United States4054 Posts
April 02 2015 16:09 GMT
#637
On April 03 2015 01:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:57 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:56 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel.
He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)

He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.

Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<


This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.

WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2?
I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game


My statement wasn't intended to conjure memories of Maru or MKP splitting, but a statement of fact about skill that he has when he needs to display them. I have to go now, so I will look up some games where he shows good micro.

If you watch fpvod's of flash, he mostly focuses on macro even in engagements, often letting his units amove into his opponent. This has lost him many a TvP before with the scv pull.
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55589 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-04-02 16:15:12
April 02 2015 16:14 GMT
#638
On April 03 2015 01:09 Alucen-Will- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 01:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:57 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:56 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel.
He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)

He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.

Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<


This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.

WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2?
I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game


My statement wasn't intended to conjure memories of Maru or MKP splitting, but a statement of fact about skill that he has when he needs to display them. I have to go now, so I will look up some games where he shows good micro.

If you watch fpvod's of flash, he mostly focuses on macro even in engagements, often letting his units amove into his opponent. This has lost him many a TvP before with the scv pull.

As a comparison, see Flash's SCV pull against Dear. In that one he actually focused on the micro and therefore barely took any storm damage on his army, and later went up Dear's ramp, flanking Dear's army from there aswell as picking off 2 HTs.

A very cutesy and minor example is when Flash played sOs in SPL a few weeks ago, when sOs sent his first zealot over to Flash who took out the zealot's shield and forced a retreat with just 2 marines, without taking a hit on either of them.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Makro
Profile Joined March 2011
France16890 Posts
April 02 2015 16:21 GMT
#639
hard times for flash
Matthew 5:10 "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of shitposting, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven".
TL+ Member
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
April 02 2015 16:36 GMT
#640
On April 03 2015 01:06 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 03 2015 00:57 Alucen-Will- wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:56 Elentos wrote:
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel.
He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)

He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.

Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<


This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.

WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2?
I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game


the best micro we have Maru in all three matchups. More specifically we have series like Dream vs Life for TvZ. Maru vs well almost anyone in TvP. Maru vs anyone in TvT also.
Moderator
Prev 1 30 31 32 33 34 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 1m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 697
Railgan 59
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2608
ggaemo 170
Yoon 15
HiyA 14
League of Legends
Doublelift2577
KnowMe26
Counter-Strike
fl0m4273
minikerr6
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu462
Other Games
tarik_tv5240
summit1g4284
Grubby2899
Beastyqt652
XaKoH 536
Mlord403
Livibee245
B2W.Neo208
UpATreeSC178
C9.Mang0147
TKL 119
ZombieGrub112
Trikslyr38
ViBE33
SteadfastSC8
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV235
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 16
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• blackmanpl 45
• RayReign 33
• iopq 2
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• TFBlade1034
Other Games
• imaqtpie719
• Shiphtur434
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
3h 1m
Escore
13h 1m
CrankTV Team League
14h 1m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
15h 1m
Big Brain Bouts
19h 1m
Soulspirit vs goblin
TriGGeR vs Bunny
OSC
1d 1h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 6h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 7h
RSL Revival
1d 12h
Serral vs SHIN
herO vs Solar
Online Event
1d 18h
[ Show More ]
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Clem vs ByuN
Rogue vs Lambo
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
INu's Battles
4 days
Cure vs herO
ByuN vs Rogue
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Patches Events
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
CrankTV Team League
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-07-22
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E3

Ongoing

CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
SCTL 2026 Spring
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W4
ASL S22 SEASON OPEN Day 2
Escore Tournament S3: W5
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 22: Qualifier #2
CSLAN 4
ASL Season 22
HSC XXX
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
Logitech G Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.