Leenock vs Flash Game 1 Leenock vs Flash Game 2 Leenock vs Flash Game 3 Leenock vs Flash Game 4 Leenock vs Flash Game 5 Rogue vs Hurricane Game 1 Rogue vs Hurricane Game 2 Rogue vs Hurricane Game 3 Rogue vs Hurricane Game 4 Rogue vs Hurricane Game 5 herO vs Symbol Game 1 herO vs Symbol Game 2 herO vs Symbol Game 3 herO vs Symbol Game 4 herO vs Symbol Game 5
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
6%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
6%
16 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 2?
★★★- Good game (5)
56%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
22%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
11%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
11%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 3?
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (7)
41%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (5)
29%
★★★- Good game (5)
29%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 4?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
100%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (0)
0%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
1 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 4?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 5?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
100%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (0)
0%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
1 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 5?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 2?
★★★- Good game (3)
50%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
17%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
17%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 3?
★★★- Good game (3)
43%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 4?
★★★- Good game (3)
43%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
14%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
14%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 4?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 5?
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
14%
★★★- Good game (1)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
14%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 5?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (6)
67%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
11%
★★★- Good game (1)
11%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
11%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 2?
★★★★- Highly recommended game (4)
50%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
25%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
13%
★★★- Good game (1)
13%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 3?
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
33%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
17%
★★★- Good game (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
17%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
17%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 4?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
50%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
50%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (0)
0%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
4 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 4?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 5?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
50%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
50%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (0)
0%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
4 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 5?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
(Z)Leenock 0-3 (T)Flash: I realize that Flash is not as good as he was back in the day, but I still think that he is superior to Leenock in every aspect possible. Flash has one of the best decision making in all of SC2 and he will not only be able to outplay Leenock, but out think him as well. Plus, Flash's only weakness is against Protoss. His versus is extremely high at a whopping 66%. Leenock only has a like 54% vT winrate. I think Flash will stomp Leenock with ease.
(Z)Rogue 3-0 (P)Hurricane: I don't think i even need to explain this one.
(P)herO 3-0 (Z)Symbol: herO is the 2nd best Protoss in the world right now. His versus Zerg is the 2nd best of the Protoss players that are currently active right now. Symbol is just a mere shell of what he used to be. Symbol used to be a top player that was a contender to win every tournament he entered. Now, herO, the 2nd best Protoss these days, will just destroy Symbol's dreams.
Leenock vs Flashin in StarLeague Season 2 round of 24. Leenock is at 6.12% Blizzcon Chances. 48.69% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 11.35%. 51.31% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 1.15%. Flash is at 11.06% Blizzcon Chances. 51.31% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 17.94%. 48.69% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 3.81%.
Hurricane vs Roguein in StarLeague Season 2 round of 24. Hurricane is at 3.07% Blizzcon Chances. 41.31% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 6.74%. 58.69% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 0.48%. Rogue is at 70.69% Blizzcon Chances. 58.69% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 82.09%. 41.31% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 54.49%.
Symbol vs herOin in StarLeague Season 2 round of 24. Symbol is at 3.15% Blizzcon Chances. 28.44% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 8.02%. 71.56% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 1.21%. herO is at 99.98% Blizzcon Chances. 71.56% of the time they win this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 99.99%. 28.44% of the time they lose this match and their Blizzcon Chances go to 99.92%.
LOLOLOL Do you honestly believe what you say? Leenock beat Flash? Flash's TvZ has been on the upswing while Leenock has been losing his ZvT's aside from beating Skyhigh who is poor at TvZ anuways.
LOLOLOL Do you honestly believe what you say? Leenock beat Flash? Flash's TvZ has been on the upswing while Leenock has been losing his ZvT's aside from beating Skyhigh who is poor at TvZ anuways.
I've been busy battling my inner demons most of the time since the later part of PL R1 - has Leenock really fallen off that hard that he's an underdog tonight?
Leenock is just being inconsistent Leenock lately. 1 week he's losing to Marineking and jjakji the next week he's beating skyhigh who has been on a tear against zerg.
This is when dual monitors come in handy (for those that have it). One monitor will have GSL while the other monitor will have S2SL. You also need to have two separate earphone plugins so you can hear them both at the same time. Best of luck people!
On April 02 2015 15:05 Seeker wrote: This is when dual monitors come in handy (for those that have it). One monitor will have GSL while the other monitor will have S2SL. You also need to have two separate earphone plugins so you can hear them both at the same time. Best of luck people!
I think i'll listen to GSL since it's low quality and you can't see anything anyway, and then watch this one. Single monitor life.
Sexiness levels of Canata + Moonglade in that photo ^^ are overwhelming :o
Anyway, get the fuck on Flash, come on. Make a run in an individual league, it's about time. Dude needs to again find and channel that form and assuredness he had around mid-2014 (iirc, when he went on that IEM qualifiers -> Hot6ix Cup run). Leenock should be a dangerous opponent, but surely the Life-teammate factor should help Flash significantly here? Hoping he's eliminated most of the sloppiness and listlessness we saw from him earlier this year...
GSL quality means its just one stream for me today. I hope they fix i t ASAP because GSL is better in terms of commentators but SSL is better production..ahh xD
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
6%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
6%
16 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Flash's stubborness reminds me a lot of MarineKing. He loses so many games because of it. I had some hope for him when Life joined KT, but clearly he has forgotten everything he learned from him. Leenock's gonna 3-0 him easily.
On April 02 2015 18:55 stargunner wrote: Flash's stubborness reminds me a lot of MarineKing. He loses so many games because of it. I had some hope for him when Life joined KT, but clearly he has forgotten everything he learned from him. Leenock's gonna 3-0 him easily.
Yeah seriously. This has to be either regression, or just straight up hard-headedness.
On April 02 2015 18:59 Pandemona wrote: Np Flash got this
lol so many people overreacted to the early damage. I guess they forgot you have to do a lot more when you're facing 3cc and everything for zerg is so delayed
On April 02 2015 18:59 Pandemona wrote: Np Flash got this
lol so many people overreacted to the early damage. I guess they forgot you have to do a lot more when you're facing 3cc and everything for zerg is so delayed
On April 02 2015 18:59 Pandemona wrote: Np Flash got this
lol so many people overreacted to the early damage. I guess they forgot you have to do a lot more when you're facing 3cc and everything for zerg is so delayed
Tbh, Leenock helped Flash to come back quite a bit
See a full turtle terran, runs straight into the wall and mines thinking he has a chance?? Wow so poor decision, should have double expanded and kept Flash inside
On April 02 2015 18:59 Musicus wrote: I think there is a bit of anti Flash, "Flash the unprepared robot" bias in this cast. Don't call games too early guys :/.
casters love to rip on Flash, especially Tastosis. I can't say I blame them because of how much people expect out of him, but it does get annoying after a while.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
11%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On April 02 2015 19:08 KrazyTrumpet wrote: Why are those orbitals in the middle of the map...? And why does Flash keep getting baited back home ugh -_-
Placing macro orbitals like that is good sim city vs both banelings and ultras. You want them to funnel through a choke.
I messed up and posted this in the wrong thread, but can't Flash just play Protoss plz. He's too defensive and passive to play Terran comfortably in SC2.
On April 02 2015 19:11 Packawana wrote: I messed up and posted this in the wrong thread, but can't Flash just play Protoss plz. He's too defensive and passive to play Terran comfortably in SC2.
Am I the only one who noticed that Flash was literally allin at the end? Thats why he kept scanning the other bases, he had no bank, no income left and a small army remaining.
On April 02 2015 19:11 Packawana wrote: I messed up and posted this in the wrong thread, but can't Flash just play Protoss plz. He's too defensive and passive to play Terran comfortably in SC2.
only if Bisu comes back and plays Terran
Wasn't he thinking about it when he first joined the scene? I honestly think he'd still be playing SC2 if he just went ahead with the switch.
On April 02 2015 19:11 Packawana wrote: I messed up and posted this in the wrong thread, but can't Flash just play Protoss plz. He's too defensive and passive to play Terran comfortably in SC2.
only if Bisu comes back and plays Terran
Wasn't he thinking about it when he first joined the scene? I honestly think he'd still be playing SC2 if he just went ahead with the switch.
I remember reading something about him considering it but staying protoss for the fans
On April 02 2015 19:11 Packawana wrote: I messed up and posted this in the wrong thread, but can't Flash just play Protoss plz. He's too defensive and passive to play Terran comfortably in SC2.
only if Bisu comes back and plays Terran
Wasn't he thinking about it when he first joined the scene? I honestly think he'd still be playing SC2 if he just went ahead with the switch.
I remember reading something about him considering it but staying protoss for the fans
On April 02 2015 19:18 stargunner wrote: i h onestly want to know - does Flash not scout because he thinks he can hold whatever comes at him with his 3CC build?
I think so. Not scouting gives you more money and allows you to produce more stuff quicker.
A 3 hatch before pool is what's really good vs these CC first builds. There's a reason Life started laughing as he saw Bbyong (I think it was) CC first when they played in pro league.
um Flash has proxied quite often in SC2, I actually find it amazing that Wolf and Moonglade say that he never does. it's as if they haven't paid attention to any of his games older than the last handful of months.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (7)
41%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (5)
29%
★★★- Good game (5)
29%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
17 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Leenock vs Flash Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
I gotta say, I love seeing the numbers between S2SL and GSL right now.
The production, the games, the casting - it's just all so much better here, and I really think S2SL deserves the views it's getting. (Opinions and all that, of course)
On April 02 2015 19:29 stargunner wrote: i wish Life would go in the booth and slap Flash around a little
He really should. Life is a much better zerg than Leenock, and as a practice partner for Flash, there is no way Flash should be losing the way he is right now with Life in the same team as him.
Anyway, expecting another fast 3CC build that Leenock will either crush completely early on, or Flash barely survives and loses later sadly.
On April 02 2015 19:31 Rehio wrote: I gotta say, I love seeing the numbers between S2SL and GSL right now.
The production, the games, the casting - it's just all so much better here, and I really think S2SL deserves the views it's getting. (Opinions and all that, of course)
On April 02 2015 19:31 Rehio wrote: I gotta say, I love seeing the numbers between S2SL and GSL right now.
The production, the games, the casting - it's just all so much better here, and I really think S2SL deserves the views it's getting. (Opinions and all that, of course)
On April 02 2015 19:29 stargunner wrote: i wish Life would go in the booth and slap Flash around a little
He really should. Life is a much better zerg than Leenock, and as a practice partner for Flash, there is no way Flash should be losing the way he is right now with Life in the same team as him.
Anyway, expecting another fast 3CC build that Leenock will either crush completely early on, or Flash barely survives and loses later sadly.
well whatever his coach said he convinced him not to, haha.
On April 02 2015 19:32 Tsubbi wrote: the azubu stream is insane, perfect quality and timeshift functionality, so crazy how twitch has 20 times more viewers lol
It seems the Azubu stream doesn't register it's viewers properly though. I was the only viewer according to their counter for a while
On April 02 2015 19:32 Tsubbi wrote: the azubu stream is insane, perfect quality and timeshift functionality, so crazy how twitch has 20 times more viewers lol
The best thing is the azubu logo doesnt overlap with the supply counter in embedded stream. I dont know why Twitch doesnt fix that annoying thing
On April 02 2015 19:32 Tsubbi wrote: the azubu stream is insane, perfect quality and timeshift functionality, so crazy how twitch has 20 times more viewers lol
It seems the Azubu stream doesn't register it's viewers properly though. I was the only viewer according to their counter for a while
You have a weird egocentric vision of the world. :D
On April 02 2015 19:31 Rehio wrote: I gotta say, I love seeing the numbers between S2SL and GSL right now.
The production, the games, the casting - it's just all so much better here, and I really think S2SL deserves the views it's getting. (Opinions and all that, of course)
That sick production showing ads midgame!
I'd wager it's just Flash (and later herO) drawing viewers.
On April 02 2015 19:32 Tsubbi wrote: the azubu stream is insane, perfect quality and timeshift functionality, so crazy how twitch has 20 times more viewers lol
It seems the Azubu stream doesn't register it's viewers properly though. I was the only viewer according to their counter for a while
You have a weird egocentric vision of the world. :D
Flash would be so much more "Rainier" than Rain with Protoss, I simply don't understand why he's not playing Protoss... but I am glad Leenock won, so why should I care
On April 02 2015 19:47 yoshi245 wrote: Hopefully when Flash gets back to the team house, the coach forces him to play against Life for like 25 games straight. That was abysmal TvZ from him.
In the last game many mistakes added up to his loss. Maybe his mental state was already unstable. Loss of hellions. Loss of widow mines. His cherished 3rd CC destroyed. That's it.
A good strategy for next time might be to invest some of this GREED into Hellions. They are obviously good at holding ling-bane all-ins and general map control against lings until mutalisk comes out.
Leenock just confirmed it is Flash who threw the game away.
well we all knew that watching the last two games. honestly it's the only positive thing i can take away from the series, and what i mean by that is that Flash could have actually won the series if he did not make a few poor decisions. he actually held the all-ins, but just did not follow up correctly twice in a row. any other premiere terran player would have easily punished the zerg player for failing those all-ins.
On April 02 2015 19:55 plotspot wrote: A good strategy for next time might be to invest some of this GREED into Hellions. They are obviously good at holding ling-bane all-ins and general map control against lings until mutalisk comes out.
He held a couple of the bane-ling all ins pretty well with his hellions. In G4 he just got like 10 hellions caught on a ramp and lost the game from there.
G3 he lost his hellbats putting pressure on the third, just didn't finish it off for whatever reason.
On April 02 2015 19:55 plotspot wrote: A good strategy for next time might be to invest some of this GREED into Hellions. They are obviously good at holding ling-bane all-ins and general map control against lings until mutalisk comes out.
He got hellions. On Sejong they were too late, but on the other maps he had them in time. On Expedition Lost he had easily enough but got them surrounded. Flash just made a bunch of mistakes all over. In game 1, he didn't really scout. In game 3, he threw away his hellbats for 0 damage. In game 4 he got his hellions surrounded in Leenock's natural for no reason and then didn't lift his 3rd. If he lifts his 3rd and doesn't let it die to a ling runby he's probably still ahead.
Leenock just confirmed it is Flash who threw the game away.
well we all knew that watching the last two games. honestly it's the only positive thing i can take away from the series, and what i mean by that is that Flash could have actually won the series if he did not make a few poor decisions. he actually held the all-ins, but just did not follow up correctly twice in a row. any other premiere terran player would have easily punished the zerg player for failing those all-ins.
Let me recap, Game 4 is losing the Hellions and the 3rd CC, right?
Game 3 I watched until he didnt get the Hatchery , but I thought he is still playing okay. How did he lose game 3?
Leenock just confirmed it is Flash who threw the game away.
well we all knew that watching the last two games. honestly it's the only positive thing i can take away from the series, and what i mean by that is that Flash could have actually won the series if he did not make a few poor decisions. he actually held the all-ins, but just did not follow up correctly twice in a row. any other premiere terran player would have easily punished the zerg player for failing those all-ins.
Let me recap, Game 4 is losing the Hellions and the 3rd CC, right?
Game 3 I watched until he didnt get the Hatchery , but I thought he is still playing okay. How did he lose game 3?
After that he lost loads of scans and did stupid amounts of stims chasing after tiny groups of burrow moving roaches. Then just got rolled by roach/hydra basically.
On April 02 2015 19:55 plotspot wrote: A good strategy for next time might be to invest some of this GREED into Hellions. They are obviously good at holding ling-bane all-ins and general map control against lings until mutalisk comes out.
He held a couple of the bane-ling all ins pretty well with his hellions. In G4 he just got like 10 hellions caught on a ramp and lost the game from there.
G3 he lost his hellbats putting pressure on the third, just didn't finish it off for whatever reason.
I don't mean that it was bad defense from Flash. They were pretty good these games, it's hella risky nonetheless. If he cut a bit on the greed, he may have a few more units that would have make a difference in a counter push. I think it's just safer, than betting on perfect execution.
On April 02 2015 19:55 plotspot wrote: A good strategy for next time might be to invest some of this GREED into Hellions. They are obviously good at holding ling-bane all-ins and general map control against lings until mutalisk comes out.
He held a couple of the bane-ling all ins pretty well with his hellions. In G4 he just got like 10 hellions caught on a ramp and lost the game from there.
G3 he lost his hellbats putting pressure on the third, just didn't finish it off for whatever reason.
I don't mean that it was bad defense from Flash. They were pretty good these games, it's hella risky nonetheless. If he cut a bit on the greed, he may have a few more units that would have make a difference in a counter push. I think it's just safer, than betting on perfect execution.
Lol what he held it fine and had everything he needed against the allins. By all means he was fine and it was just stupid play that cost him like getting 12 hellions surrounded and losing a cc for free.
On April 02 2015 20:10 sharkie wrote: Nothing makes me happier than seeing flash lose in such a fashion. :D
By being better than his opponent and then throwing his leads away? Wouldn't it be more entertaining for you if he lost to someone better than him? <.<
On April 02 2015 20:10 sharkie wrote: Nothing makes me happier than seeing flash lose in such a fashion. :D
By being better than his opponent and then throwing his leads away? Wouldn't it be more entertaining for you if he lost to someone better than him? <.<
Not throwing a lead is part of the "being better" thing though
On April 02 2015 19:55 plotspot wrote: A good strategy for next time might be to invest some of this GREED into Hellions. They are obviously good at holding ling-bane all-ins and general map control against lings until mutalisk comes out.
He held a couple of the bane-ling all ins pretty well with his hellions. In G4 he just got like 10 hellions caught on a ramp and lost the game from there.
G3 he lost his hellbats putting pressure on the third, just didn't finish it off for whatever reason.
I don't mean that it was bad defense from Flash. They were pretty good these games, it's hella risky nonetheless. If he cut a bit on the greed, he may have a few more units that would have make a difference in a counter push. I think it's just safer, than betting on perfect execution.
Lol what he held it fine and had everything he needed against the allins. By all means he was fine and it was just stupid play that cost him like getting 12 hellions surrounded and losing a cc for free.
You're certainly right for game 4. I was talking about as it as general observation and decision making. Flash's play with the 3CCs is quite risky, it was fine in the last 2 games. I just think if he makes the 3rd CC a bit later and has the right amount of hellions a bit earlier, he could hold earlier push/all-ins, and might have more units for aggression/counter pushes.
In the 3rd game if he had 2 more hellions, he might have been able to take down that hatch, instead of dancing on the knife's edge all the time.
On April 02 2015 19:55 plotspot wrote: A good strategy for next time might be to invest some of this GREED into Hellions. They are obviously good at holding ling-bane all-ins and general map control against lings until mutalisk comes out.
He held a couple of the bane-ling all ins pretty well with his hellions. In G4 he just got like 10 hellions caught on a ramp and lost the game from there.
G3 he lost his hellbats putting pressure on the third, just didn't finish it off for whatever reason.
I don't mean that it was bad defense from Flash. They were pretty good these games, it's hella risky nonetheless. If he cut a bit on the greed, he may have a few more units that would have make a difference in a counter push. I think it's just safer, than betting on perfect execution.
Lol what he held it fine and had everything he needed against the allins. By all means he was fine and it was just stupid play that cost him like getting 12 hellions surrounded and losing a cc for free.
You're certainly right for game 4. I was talking about as it as general observation and decision making. Flash's play with the 3CCs is quite risky, it was fine in the last 2 games. I just think if he makes the 3rd CC a bit later and has the right amount of hellions a bit earlier, he could hold earlier push/all-ins, and might have more units for aggression/counter pushes.
In the 3rd game if he had 2 more hellions, he might have been able to take down that hatch, instead of dancing on the knife's edge all the time.
He would have killed the 3rd hatch if he hadn't chased roaches with hellbats.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On April 02 2015 19:55 plotspot wrote: A good strategy for next time might be to invest some of this GREED into Hellions. They are obviously good at holding ling-bane all-ins and general map control against lings until mutalisk comes out.
He held a couple of the bane-ling all ins pretty well with his hellions. In G4 he just got like 10 hellions caught on a ramp and lost the game from there.
G3 he lost his hellbats putting pressure on the third, just didn't finish it off for whatever reason.
I don't mean that it was bad defense from Flash. They were pretty good these games, it's hella risky nonetheless. If he cut a bit on the greed, he may have a few more units that would have make a difference in a counter push. I think it's just safer, than betting on perfect execution.
Lol what he held it fine and had everything he needed against the allins. By all means he was fine and it was just stupid play that cost him like getting 12 hellions surrounded and losing a cc for free.
You're certainly right for game 4. I was talking about as it as general observation and decision making. Flash's play with the 3CCs is quite risky, it was fine in the last 2 games. I just think if he makes the 3rd CC a bit later and has the right amount of hellions a bit earlier, he could hold earlier push/all-ins, and might have more units for aggression/counter pushes.
In the 3rd game if he had 2 more hellions, he might have been able to take down that hatch, instead of dancing on the knife's edge all the time.
He would have killed the 3rd hatch if he hadn't chased roaches with hellbats.
That's exactly what I mean. Flash is always forced (maybe with his play style) into situation where immediate decision have to do it. There's like no leeway. If his immediate decision making is shaky, then he has to buffer it somehow with other decision makings beforehand (like not building a 3rd CC and instead go for a few more units).
Btw, I think his moveout securing the 3rd base to the right in the 4th game was quite risky. Lings and banes were still lingering around and could have overwhelmed his marines. This was the CC he later lost because nothing was there to defend it, although yes it's a mistake not to lift it.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
17%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 4?
★★★- Good game (3)
43%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
14%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
14%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 4?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 5?
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
43%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
14%
★★★- Good game (1)
14%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
14%
7 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Rogue vs Hurricane Game 5?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On April 02 2015 20:58 royalroadweed wrote: I have no idea how Hurricane keeps qualifying for these things. Is it possible that he actually might be good?
He's had moments of real nice play throughout his career. Just can't seem to keep it going for a tournament run
On April 02 2015 20:58 royalroadweed wrote: I have no idea how Hurricane keeps qualifying for these things. Is it possible that he actually might be good?
On April 02 2015 20:58 royalroadweed wrote: I have no idea how Hurricane keeps qualifying for these things. Is it possible that he actually might be good?
He was always good, up to a point. But never managed to make it too the next level, I'm happy that the KeSPA training seems to be pushing him in the right direction though.
On April 02 2015 21:23 TheDwf wrote: Noooooo Flash How was it?
Flash went CC first 3 times and reaper expand once, Leenock did 3 baneling busts and 1 roach bust. The first bane bust killed Flash outright, the next he defended well, he was ahead in game 3 and 4 but threw them with bad decisions and silly mistakes (not lifting an orbital against a ling runby and losing it).
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (6)
67%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
11%
★★★- Good game (1)
11%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
11%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 1?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On April 02 2015 21:45 royalroadweed wrote: Wolf has a good point. How the fuck did Duran turn Caucasian and age 50 years?
He's a shapeshifter. He can turn into whatever he wants.
If only his name changes were as good as his shape shifting.
Well he turned into Jim Raynor and even Kerrigan during the campaign. But yeah, if he survived that and reappeared he'd probably be named himself Urdan or something like that.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
25%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
13%
★★★- Good game (1)
13%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 2?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
herO just destroys people by playing standard with absolute no mistakes man... I'll say on par with Rain and Zest in their prime. What a beautiful sight to behold.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
33%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
17%
★★★- Good game (1)
17%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (1)
17%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (1)
17%
6 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 3?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 4?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
50%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
50%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (0)
0%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
4 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 4?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 5?
★- Do not see this game no matter what (2)
50%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (2)
50%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★- Good game (0)
0%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (0)
0%
4 total votes
Your vote: Recommend herO vs Symbol Game 5?
(Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
On April 02 2015 22:01 OtherWorld wrote: Meanwhile JaeDong is finally killing Lillekanin
Oh holy shit Copenhagen Games are going on, I missed a Jaedong game...
I don't think this ever happened before. But wasn't a great game I guess, just Lilkanin turtling?
Pretty bad. Turtle mech vs swarmhosts. Jaedong repeated bashes head first into lilekanin's army for about an hour, before realizing that mech is immobile. Then he attacks everywhere at once pulling lillekanin apart, destroying his production and his outlaying bases. Lillekanin turtles for about 20 more minutes on one base, then flys all his buildings, like jackass before finally leaving.
On April 02 2015 22:01 OtherWorld wrote: Meanwhile JaeDong is finally killing Lillekanin
Oh holy shit Copenhagen Games are going on, I missed a Jaedong game...
I don't think this ever happened before. But wasn't a great game I guess, just Lilkanin turtling?
Pretty bad. Turtle mech vs swarmhosts. Jaedong repeated bashes head first into lilekanin's army for about an hour, before realizing that mech is immobile. Then he attacks everywhere at once pulling lillekanin apart, destroying his production and his outlaying bases. Lillekanin turtles for about 20 more minutes on one base, then flys all his buildings, like jackass before finally leaving.
The only highlight was a landed red hp viking that almost killed a full hp hatchery.
On April 02 2015 22:01 OtherWorld wrote: Meanwhile JaeDong is finally killing Lillekanin
Oh holy shit Copenhagen Games are going on, I missed a Jaedong game...
I don't think this ever happened before. But wasn't a great game I guess, just Lilkanin turtling?
Pretty bad. Turtle mech vs swarmhosts. Jaedong repeated bashes head first into lilekanin's army for about an hour, before realizing that mech is immobile. Then he attacks everywhere at once pulling lillekanin apart, destroying his production and his outlaying bases. Lillekanin turtles for about 20 more minutes on one base, then flys all his buildings, like jackass before finally leaving.
The only highlight was a landed red hp viking that almost killed a full hp hatchery.
I was rather entertained by Lillekanin blowing up his whole army in one swoop before finally leaving the game.
On April 02 2015 22:01 OtherWorld wrote: Meanwhile JaeDong is finally killing Lillekanin
Oh holy shit Copenhagen Games are going on, I missed a Jaedong game...
I don't think this ever happened before. But wasn't a great game I guess, just Lilkanin turtling?
Pretty bad. Turtle mech vs swarmhosts. Jaedong repeated bashes head first into lilekanin's army for about an hour, before realizing that mech is immobile. Then he attacks everywhere at once pulling lillekanin apart, destroying his production and his outlaying bases. Lillekanin turtles for about 20 more minutes on one base, then flys all his buildings, like jackass before finally leaving.
The only highlight was a landed red hp viking that almost killed a full hp hatchery.
I was rather entertained by Lillekanin blowing up his whole army in one swoop before finally leaving the game.
On April 02 2015 22:01 OtherWorld wrote: Meanwhile JaeDong is finally killing Lillekanin
Oh holy shit Copenhagen Games are going on, I missed a Jaedong game...
I don't think this ever happened before. But wasn't a great game I guess, just Lilkanin turtling?
Pretty bad. Turtle mech vs swarmhosts. Jaedong repeated bashes head first into lilekanin's army for about an hour, before realizing that mech is immobile. Then he attacks everywhere at once pulling lillekanin apart, destroying his production and his outlaying bases. Lillekanin turtles for about 20 more minutes on one base, then flys all his buildings, like jackass before finally leaving.
The only highlight was a landed red hp viking that almost killed a full hp hatchery.
I was rather entertained by Lillekanin blowing up his whole army in one swoop before finally leaving the game.
Not for me. You know that gif where Dustin Browder was reacting to marines shooting the destructible rocks ? That was me with that viking shooting the hatch.
Looks like my Jin Air boys hit some turbulence today, luckily the defender of the universe Cure will be back tomorrow so they don't go down in flames.
Leenock 3-1 FlaSh (mildly surprising, I'm thinking Flash needs to move toward hellion banshee play in the current meta. If Flash can beat Zerg's, he can be one of the best Terrans again.)
Hurricane 3-0 Rogue (VERY surprising, Jin Air might not be sending their players to as many foreign tournaments in the future, rogue looked a bit out of it today)
On April 02 2015 23:22 Deathstar wrote: the proof is in the pudding. symbol couldn't even get 1. Flash got a game. You couldn't symbol? I dunno man. Very weak showing.
herO <3
Flash probably wouldn't have taken a game off herO today either if they played
On April 02 2015 23:22 Deathstar wrote: the proof is in the pudding. symbol couldn't even get 1. Flash got a game. You couldn't symbol? I dunno man. Very weak showing.
herO <3
Flash probably wouldn't have taken a game off herO today either if they played
Probably. herO was on point today, Flash was playing tilted and didn't really manage to capitalise on the advantages he got by deflecting Leenocks all-ins.
On April 02 2015 23:29 sharkie wrote: wtf happened to Rogue? O.O Losing is ok, but 3-0? O.O
Very surprising, It felt like he was jetlagged and completely out of it. Also Hurricane came welll prepared for the match. It's really not much more than a fluke to be honest.
On April 02 2015 23:22 Deathstar wrote: the proof is in the pudding. symbol couldn't even get 1. Flash got a game. You couldn't symbol? I dunno man. Very weak showing.
herO <3
Flash probably wouldn't have taken a game off herO today either if they played
Good point. Seems like herO is untouchable these days
On April 02 2015 23:22 Deathstar wrote: the proof is in the pudding. symbol couldn't even get 1. Flash got a game. You couldn't symbol? I dunno man. Very weak showing.
herO <3
Flash probably wouldn't have taken a game off herO today either if they played
Good point. Seems like herO is untouchable these days
Provided he doesn't play Top Zerg's/Parting/Bbyong, lol.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
I think there are some cool flash things has introduced against zerg like the 4 mine macro game medivac harass. Even cure tried to do it against Pet a week ago in Proleague.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays.
I agree, and it has really always been this way in his career. It's easy on the surface to criticize someone who is just losing (sometimes in an embarrassing fashion), but it's much more to look at his play objectively and understand at a deeper level what he is trying to do, and the strengths and weakness of what goes into his style.
I don't mean to hate too much on the casters but it really drives me crazy sometimes. I really do like all of the casters in Korea, but they are far from perfect.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran. Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.
Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
The game against Leenock was on the back of a failed quasi all-in by Leenock, but it's not like Flash took 0 damage. And I did say he needs to work on getting there more safely and do more pressure, so I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here :S.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
The game against Leenock was on the back of a failed quasi all-in by Leenock, but it's not like Flash took 0 damage. And I did say he needs to work on getting there more safely and do more pressure, so I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here :S.
That if he plays safe and more solid he's sacrificing late game strength.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran. Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.
Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.
That style is fine. I mean that's exactly how MarineKing played for years before he got exposed. But at the end of the day he's taking more risks to play at a level that Innovation can get to when Innovation is playing safe. There is a reason Flash has been losing to "worse" players while Innovation has only lost to players of his caliber in ZvT.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
The game against Leenock was on the back of a failed quasi all-in by Leenock, but it's not like Flash took 0 damage. And I did say he needs to work on getting there more safely and do more pressure, so I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here :S.
That if he plays safe and more solid he's sacrificing late game strength.
By playing more safe, what I meant is actually scout what the opponent is doing (unlike in game 1 and 3 against Leenock where he didn't scout enough), react appropriately (I guess he has that pretty much down) and then don't be wasteful with his units. Not saying he should turtle even more, I already think his moveouts are quite timid, and there comes a certain point in TvZ late game where you basically can't win the game anymore because you didn't do damage.
Just saying that if he really wants to play greedy, he should absolutely make sure he doesn't die to an all-in, and then be careful with his units. Losing those hellions on EL? Throwing away hellbats and overstimming before medivacs? Unacceptable.
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran. Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.
Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.
That style is fine. I mean that's exactly how MarineKing played for years before he got exposed. But at the end of the day he's taking more risks to play at a level that Innovation can get to when Innovation is playing safe. There is a reason Flash has been losing to "worse" players while Innovation has only lost to players of his caliber in ZvT.
Not really, MarineKing's builds were often reckless; Flash takes precaution in his super greedy style, where MarineKing/Bomber would not. Also Marineking's style is mostly based around mid-game heavy marine aggression combined with elite level mechanics.
Innovation is really a mechanical monster in the truest form. His style is so solid because of his execution, in longer macro games his solidity can fade to smarter players. Innovation can't stomach macro games in the way flash can, let alone not choke under the pressure
Here is one of my favorite games of HOTS to show this: (a bit old)
Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
The game against Leenock was on the back of a failed quasi all-in by Leenock, but it's not like Flash took 0 damage. And I did say he needs to work on getting there more safely and do more pressure, so I'm not sure what you're trying to tell me here :S.
That if he plays safe and more solid he's sacrificing late game strength.
By playing more safe, what I meant is actually scout what the opponent is doing (unlike in game 1 and 3 against Leenock where he didn't scout enough), react appropriately (I guess he has that pretty much down) and then don't be wasteful with his units. Not saying he should turtle even more, I already think his moveouts are quite timid, and there comes a certain point in TvZ late game where you basically can't win the game anymore because you didn't do damage.
Just saying that if he really wants to play greedy, he should absolutely make sure he doesn't die to an all-in, and then be careful with his units. Losing those hellions on EL? Throwing away hellbats and overstimming before medivacs? Unacceptable.
This is exactly right. Flash took some educated risks in those games and paid the price. I would assume these risks were on the back of a study of Leenock's style.
The weakness of Flash right now are:
1. Not taking enough precautions in the early game 2. Being overzealous in engagements/situations where he can win
On April 03 2015 00:19 Alucen-Will- wrote: SPOTV casters are really jumping on the Flash hate train these days lol
Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran. Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.
Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.
That style is fine. I mean that's exactly how MarineKing played for years before he got exposed. But at the end of the day he's taking more risks to play at a level that Innovation can get to when Innovation is playing safe. There is a reason Flash has been losing to "worse" players while Innovation has only lost to players of his caliber in ZvT.
Not really, MarineKing's builds were often reckless; Flash takes precaution in his super greedy style, where MarineKing/Bomber would not. Also Marineking's style is mostly based around mid-game heavy marine aggression combined with elite level mechanics.
Innovation is really a mechanical monster in the truest form. His style is so solid because of his execution, in longer macro games his solidity can fade to smarter players. Innovation can't stomach macro games in the way flash can, let alone not choke under the pressure
Here is one of my favorite games of HOTS to show this: (a bit old)
Flash lost to Hydra, Shine and Leenock going CC first. I dunno about his builds being less reckless than MarineKing's. And I do respect Flash's TvT. It's the only matchup where I actually see him thinking and making strategic decision whereas in TvZ and TvP he attacks in like a bulldog and more often than not dies. And even if he gets to the late game, if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision. That's just being stubborn.
And I don't think you can quantify something like Flash's clutch when he's only played in 2 finals, one he lost with hellbat drops and WMs to Life. Especially against someone so known for anti-clutch like Innovation. (I think almost every player has shown more clutch than Inno). The other he won against Zest post WM-buff before Protoss had learned to adapt (though I think even now Flash's TvP is better than Zest's whose PvT has always been his worst).
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
On April 03 2015 00:20 Elentos wrote: [quote] Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran. Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.
Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.
That style is fine. I mean that's exactly how MarineKing played for years before he got exposed. But at the end of the day he's taking more risks to play at a level that Innovation can get to when Innovation is playing safe. There is a reason Flash has been losing to "worse" players while Innovation has only lost to players of his caliber in ZvT.
Not really, MarineKing's builds were often reckless; Flash takes precaution in his super greedy style, where MarineKing/Bomber would not. Also Marineking's style is mostly based around mid-game heavy marine aggression combined with elite level mechanics.
Innovation is really a mechanical monster in the truest form. His style is so solid because of his execution, in longer macro games his solidity can fade to smarter players. Innovation can't stomach macro games in the way flash can, let alone not choke under the pressure
Here is one of my favorite games of HOTS to show this: (a bit old)
Flash lost to Hydra, Shine and Leenock going CC first. I dunno about his builds being less reckless than MarineKing's. And I do respect Flash's TvT. It's the only matchup where I actually see him thinking and making strategic decision whereas in TvZ and TvP he attacks in like a bulldog and more often than not dies. And even if he gets to the late game, if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision. That's just being stubborn.
And I don't think you can quantify something like Flash's clutch when he's only played in 2 finals, one he lost with hellbat drops and WMs to Life. Especially against someone so known for anti-clutch like Innovation. (I think almost every player has shown more clutch than Inno). The other he won against Zest post WM-buff before Protoss had learned to adapt (though I think even now Flash's TvP is better than Zest's whose PvT has always been his worst).
Eh, a lot of Terran's go cc first on 2 player maps, you just need to scout with it so you don't lose to 10 pool/speedling all in/ling/baneling bust.
Also Flash's win against Zest in Toronto was him being better than Zest..coming from a Zest fan. I'm not really sure where you are going with that one.
I guess I should go more in-depth about the differences between Flash greed and MKP/Bomber greed, but I have to leave in 10 minutes >.>.
Ex. Marineking will do like 1 rax, 3 cc, double ebay (he did recently in proleague)
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
On April 03 2015 00:51 stuchiu wrote: if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision..
Seems a bit patronising. "Players like" Life or soO are pretty rare, you know. Life being the best Zerg and soO being probably the best macro Zerg throughout 2014.
That series against soO, specifically. He made a mistake in the engagement, going in without vision onto the creep, and found himself nearly surrounded with no point of retreat. Immediately after the fight soO got onto his production. And that happened in 2 of those games. These things can happen, but they shouldn't, those are the mistakes Flash has to get out of his play to become better.
However, today his play was just shaky and full of mistakes in general, some mistakes minor (wasting scans when not needed against burrowed roaches and not even getting all of them) and some major (not lifting a CC under attack by zerglings).
On April 03 2015 00:51 stuchiu wrote: if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision..
Seems a bit patronising. "Players like" Life or soO are pretty rare, you know. Life being the best Zerg and soO being probably the best macro Zerg throughout 2014.
That series against soO, specifically. He made a mistake in the engagement, going in without vision onto the creep, and found himself nearly surrounded with no point of retreat. Immediately after the fight soO got onto his production. And that happened in 2 of those games. These things can happen, but they shouldn't, those are the mistakes Flash has to get out of his play to become better.
However, today his play was just shaky and full of mistakes in general, some mistakes minor (wasting scans when not needed against burrowed roaches and not even getting all of them) and some major (not lifting a CC under attack by zerglings).
Elentos, the savior of truth and knowledge in esports :D
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2? I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game
On April 03 2015 00:51 stuchiu wrote: if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision..
Seems a bit patronising. "Players like" Life or soO are pretty rare, you know. Life being the best Zerg and soO being probably the best macro Zerg throughout 2014.
That series against soO, specifically. He made a mistake in the engagement, going in without vision onto the creep, and found himself nearly surrounded with no point of retreat. Immediately after the fight soO got onto his production. And that happened in 2 of those games. These things can happen, but they shouldn't, those are the mistakes Flash has to get out of his play to become better.
However, today his play was just shaky and full of mistakes in general, some mistakes minor (wasting scans when not needed against burrowed roaches and not even getting all of them) and some major (not lifting a CC under attack by zerglings).
Elentos, the savior of truth and knowledge in esports :D
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2? I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game
My statement wasn't intended to conjure memories of Maru or MKP splitting, but a statement of fact about skill that he has when he needs to display them. I have to go now, so I will look up some games where he shows good micro.
If you watch fpvod's of flash, he mostly focuses on macro even in engagements, often letting his units amove into his opponent. This has lost him many a TvP before with the scv pull.
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2? I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game
My statement wasn't intended to conjure memories of Maru or MKP splitting, but a statement of fact about skill that he has when he needs to display them. I have to go now, so I will look up some games where he shows good micro.
If you watch fpvod's of flash, he mostly focuses on macro even in engagements, often letting his units amove into his opponent. This has lost him many a TvP before with the scv pull.
As a comparison, see Flash's SCV pull against Dear. In that one he actually focused on the micro and therefore barely took any storm damage on his army, and later went up Dear's ramp, flanking Dear's army from there aswell as picking off 2 HTs.
A very cutesy and minor example is when Flash played sOs in SPL a few weeks ago, when sOs sent his first zealot over to Flash who took out the zealot's shield and forced a retreat with just 2 marines, without taking a hit on either of them.
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2? I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game
the best micro we have Maru in all three matchups. More specifically we have series like Dream vs Life for TvZ. Maru vs well almost anyone in TvP. Maru vs anyone in TvT also.
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2? I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game
the best micro we have Maru in all three matchups. More specifically we have series like Dream vs Life for TvZ. Maru vs well almost anyone in TvP. Maru vs anyone in TvT also.
Yes i agree that Maru has great micro, i wanted examples of flash though (cause i think he simply doesn't have great micro) I added (in sc2) cause i didn't want examples of Flash in BW which would "prove" that he has great micro
On April 03 2015 00:20 Elentos wrote: [quote] Everyone is. Literally everyone is taking every chance they get to hate on the guy.
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran. Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.
Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.
That style is fine. I mean that's exactly how MarineKing played for years before he got exposed. But at the end of the day he's taking more risks to play at a level that Innovation can get to when Innovation is playing safe. There is a reason Flash has been losing to "worse" players while Innovation has only lost to players of his caliber in ZvT.
Not really, MarineKing's builds were often reckless; Flash takes precaution in his super greedy style, where MarineKing/Bomber would not. Also Marineking's style is mostly based around mid-game heavy marine aggression combined with elite level mechanics.
Innovation is really a mechanical monster in the truest form. His style is so solid because of his execution, in longer macro games his solidity can fade to smarter players. Innovation can't stomach macro games in the way flash can, let alone not choke under the pressure
Here is one of my favorite games of HOTS to show this: (a bit old)
Flash lost to Hydra, Shine and Leenock going CC first. I dunno about his builds being less reckless than MarineKing's. And I do respect Flash's TvT. It's the only matchup where I actually see him thinking and making strategic decision whereas in TvZ and TvP he attacks in like a bulldog and more often than not dies. And even if he gets to the late game, if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision. That's just being stubborn.
And I don't think you can quantify something like Flash's clutch when he's only played in 2 finals, one he lost with hellbat drops and WMs to Life. Especially against someone so known for anti-clutch like Innovation. (I think almost every player has shown more clutch than Inno). The other he won against Zest post WM-buff before Protoss had learned to adapt (though I think even now Flash's TvP is better than Zest's whose PvT has always been his worst).
There were no Hellbat drops when Flash played against Life at the MLG, they had not been discovered yet… If anything Life had the strategic advantage with 3b bane busts against the new 4M builds
On April 03 2015 00:22 Alucen-Will- wrote: [quote]
Funny how none of them play Terran or can appreciate his Builds/Game Knowledge.
With that said I think he should incorporate more Hellion/Banshee ala Cure. He already has showed some taste for Cure's Builds with his 5 rax cc first game aggression against Trap in Katowice.
His style is okay, what he should do is not throw away obvious leads. He came dangerously close to that in game 2 and did it in games 3 and 4.
Certainly the case, Granted it was cross spawn Deadwing against Zerg.
The current meta is heavily favored for Zerg against Terran in macro games (Deadwing, Vaani, Overgrowth, Expedition lost, etc). It's no surprising that the best Terrans right now are aggressive players like Maru/Innovation/Cure.
The thing is, it seems like once Flash reaches a certain point in a macro game, he's in his comfort zone and really difficult to beat, like in g2 against Leenock or in SPL against ByuL. He has to work on getting there more safely and add in some more pressure plays. He plays a bit too passive until he's confident to move out I feel. And then when he went for the hellbats he did nothing with them even though they could have won them the game had he killed the hatch.
You have to think about the fact that the times he got to the late game, no one abused him for his greedy openings either. He isn't going to look that strong if he plays normal.
Not really, flash's greedy style of play reflects his philosophical belief in the strength of timing attacks and his confidence in defending early aggression. In the TvZ matchup in HOTS where Zerg is far more cost efficient in the late game, gains map control with mutalisks, holds in the death nail with 3/3/ and ultralisks, Macro bio is VERY hard to play as a Terran. Banelings are far and away the most cost-efficient unit in the game and are much easier to use than Widow Mines, particularly in macro games.
Really a Terran should be more confident in the early game. Flash's style reflects his belief in the right way to play the game and the unbreakable confidence he has in executing his builds.
That style is fine. I mean that's exactly how MarineKing played for years before he got exposed. But at the end of the day he's taking more risks to play at a level that Innovation can get to when Innovation is playing safe. There is a reason Flash has been losing to "worse" players while Innovation has only lost to players of his caliber in ZvT.
Not really, MarineKing's builds were often reckless; Flash takes precaution in his super greedy style, where MarineKing/Bomber would not. Also Marineking's style is mostly based around mid-game heavy marine aggression combined with elite level mechanics.
Innovation is really a mechanical monster in the truest form. His style is so solid because of his execution, in longer macro games his solidity can fade to smarter players. Innovation can't stomach macro games in the way flash can, let alone not choke under the pressure
Here is one of my favorite games of HOTS to show this: (a bit old)
Flash lost to Hydra, Shine and Leenock going CC first. I dunno about his builds being less reckless than MarineKing's. And I do respect Flash's TvT. It's the only matchup where I actually see him thinking and making strategic decision whereas in TvZ and TvP he attacks in like a bulldog and more often than not dies. And even if he gets to the late game, if he can't beat players like Life or soO (even when he has killed 29 drones of soO) that's not a winning vision. That's just being stubborn.
And I don't think you can quantify something like Flash's clutch when he's only played in 2 finals, one he lost with hellbat drops and WMs to Life. Especially against someone so known for anti-clutch like Innovation. (I think almost every player has shown more clutch than Inno). The other he won against Zest post WM-buff before Protoss had learned to adapt (though I think even now Flash's TvP is better than Zest's whose PvT has always been his worst).
There were no Hellbat drops when Flash played against Life at the MLG, they had not been discovered yet… If anything Life had the strategic advantage with 3b bane busts against the new 4M builds
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2? I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game
My statement wasn't intended to conjure memories of Maru or MKP splitting, but a statement of fact about skill that he has when he needs to display them. I have to go now, so I will look up some games where he shows good micro.
If you watch fpvod's of flash, he mostly focuses on macro even in engagements, often letting his units amove into his opponent. This has lost him many a TvP before with the scv pull.
As a comparison, see Flash's SCV pull against Dear. In that one he actually focused on the micro and therefore barely took any storm damage on his army, and later went up Dear's ramp, flanking Dear's army from there aswell as picking off 2 HTs.
A very cutesy and minor example is when Flash played sOs in SPL a few weeks ago, when sOs sent his first zealot over to Flash who took out the zealot's shield and forced a retreat with just 2 marines, without taking a hit on either of them.
Aside from his decision making/game sense this always seemed like one of the biggest problems with his play in SC2, he focuses on macro SO much. It definitely shows, his macro is great, but it's so obvious that it hurts his micro far more than slightly better macro helps him.
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2? I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game
My statement wasn't intended to conjure memories of Maru or MKP splitting, but a statement of fact about skill that he has when he needs to display them. I have to go now, so I will look up some games where he shows good micro.
If you watch fpvod's of flash, he mostly focuses on macro even in engagements, often letting his units amove into his opponent. This has lost him many a TvP before with the scv pull.
As a comparison, see Flash's SCV pull against Dear. In that one he actually focused on the micro and therefore barely took any storm damage on his army, and later went up Dear's ramp, flanking Dear's army from there aswell as picking off 2 HTs.
A very cutesy and minor example is when Flash played sOs in SPL a few weeks ago, when sOs sent his first zealot over to Flash who took out the zealot's shield and forced a retreat with just 2 marines, without taking a hit on either of them.
Aside from his decision making/game sense this always seemed like one of the biggest problems with his play in SC2, he focuses on macro SO much. It definitely shows, his macro is great, but it's so obvious that it hurts his micro far more than slightly better macro helps him.
I think it's a (cruel?) reality Flash needs to accept - or rather, I'm sure he knows and has accepted but doesn't always show - Terran reinforcement is the slowest in the game and the most vulnerable to being picked off. Meaning that it's the most important thing to be cost efficient, to keep your units alive. Sure, PartinG had this whole lecture in the GSL finals about how it's important not to throw units away like Life does in his opinion, but for Terran it's even more important than for Protoss or Zerg.
And in a game where bio is extremely vulnerable to AoE units like banelings and colossi, he just has to accept that he needs to micro his units quite a lot to be effective. Because no matter how good his macro is, even if he was the best macro player in the world, if you lose your entire army and even just a few enemy units get on top of your production, that's basically it for the Terran. That's why I think he has to pay more attention to his units, unlike what he did today, where he among other things: stimmed half his army to red health without medivacs being out while chasing burrowed roaches, causing a bunch of units to die; lost about 10 hellions on Leenock's ramp for no reason; chased roaches with hellbats instead of killing Leenock's 3rd with them.
On April 03 2015 01:55 esdf wrote: gj Flash, losing 3-1 to worst possible opponent you could've gotten. Time to do army service.
You mean best possible opponent? Leenock is one of the original tricky Zergs, there's literally nothing worse for Flash given his style lol
Leenock gets no respect :[
I respect Leenock. Mostly for his ZvP which is kinda ridiculous, but just in general. And I feel he was definitely one of the strongest opponents Flash could have gotten, since Leenock just played hyper-aggressive while Flash played extremely greedy. Ignoring the fact that Flash basically threw games 3 and 4 through some really bad mistakes, Leenock showed up pretty much on point, solid game plan, good decision making. He definitely played this series to his strengths, no question, and he seems to be in pretty decent form again after not being seen since losing to MarineKing.
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2? I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game
My statement wasn't intended to conjure memories of Maru or MKP splitting, but a statement of fact about skill that he has when he needs to display them. I have to go now, so I will look up some games where he shows good micro.
If you watch fpvod's of flash, he mostly focuses on macro even in engagements, often letting his units amove into his opponent. This has lost him many a TvP before with the scv pull.
As a comparison, see Flash's SCV pull against Dear. In that one he actually focused on the micro and therefore barely took any storm damage on his army, and later went up Dear's ramp, flanking Dear's army from there aswell as picking off 2 HTs.
A very cutesy and minor example is when Flash played sOs in SPL a few weeks ago, when sOs sent his first zealot over to Flash who took out the zealot's shield and forced a retreat with just 2 marines, without taking a hit on either of them.
Funnily enough, this is the exact moment I was thinking of lol.
On April 03 2015 00:45 The_Red_Viper wrote: Flash's style is just not really working for terran i feel. He doesn't have impressive micro and multitasking, two things you simply need with sc2 terran imo. (at least as long as bio >>> everything else)
He actually has really good micro, he rarely focuses on it though. His multitasking isn't superb but also not bad.
Honestly, I wanna see him play LotV so much right now <.<
This is funny, too. Watching Flash play his games over the years is odd-He actually has very good micro, but simply does not focus on it unless he has to. It's lost him more than a few games before.
WHat are examples of this "good micro" in sc2? I really don't wanna hate on flash, but i think i have never seen impressive micro from flash in this game
My statement wasn't intended to conjure memories of Maru or MKP splitting, but a statement of fact about skill that he has when he needs to display them. I have to go now, so I will look up some games where he shows good micro.
If you watch fpvod's of flash, he mostly focuses on macro even in engagements, often letting his units amove into his opponent. This has lost him many a TvP before with the scv pull.
As a comparison, see Flash's SCV pull against Dear. In that one he actually focused on the micro and therefore barely took any storm damage on his army, and later went up Dear's ramp, flanking Dear's army from there aswell as picking off 2 HTs.
A very cutesy and minor example is when Flash played sOs in SPL a few weeks ago, when sOs sent his first zealot over to Flash who took out the zealot's shield and forced a retreat with just 2 marines, without taking a hit on either of them.
Aside from his decision making/game sense this always seemed like one of the biggest problems with his play in SC2, he focuses on macro SO much. It definitely shows, his macro is great, but it's so obvious that it hurts his micro far more than slightly better macro helps him.
I think it's a (cruel?) reality Flash needs to accept - or rather, I'm sure he knows and has accepted but doesn't always show - Terran reinforcement is the slowest in the game and the most vulnerable to being picked off. Meaning that it's the most important thing to be cost efficient, to keep your units alive. Sure, PartinG had this whole lecture in the GSL finals about how it's important not to throw units away like Life does in his opinion, but for Terran it's even more important than for Protoss or Zerg.
And in a game where bio is extremely vulnerable to AoE units like banelings and colossi, he just has to accept that he needs to micro his units quite a lot to be effective. Because no matter how good his macro is, even if he was the best macro player in the world, if you lose your entire army and even just a few enemy units get on top of your production, that's basically it for the Terran. That's why I think he has to pay more attention to his units, unlike what he did today, where he among other things: stimmed half his army to red health without medivacs being out while chasing burrowed roaches, causing a bunch of units to die; lost about 10 hellions on Leenock's ramp for no reason; chased roaches with hellbats instead of killing Leenock's 3rd with them.
On April 03 2015 01:55 esdf wrote: gj Flash, losing 3-1 to worst possible opponent you could've gotten. Time to do army service.
You mean best possible opponent? Leenock is one of the original tricky Zergs, there's literally nothing worse for Flash given his style lol
Leenock gets no respect :[
I respect Leenock. Mostly for his ZvP which is kinda ridiculous, but just in general. And I feel he was definitely one of the strongest opponents Flash could have gotten, since Leenock just played hyper-aggressive while Flash played extremely greedy. Ignoring the fact that Flash basically threw games 3 and 4 through some really bad mistakes, Leenock showed up pretty much on point, solid game plan, good decision making. He definitely played this series to his strengths, no question, and he seems to be in pretty decent form again after not being seen since losing to MarineKing.
The thing that really got me about the SPOTV casters was in game 1 where they starting talking about how he should stream on Afreeca and go back to broodwar....That was so ignorant it made me mute the audio (something I NEVER do, particularly with casters like Moonglade+Wolf)
Not only is it ignorant, but there is almost a desire to dislike him, which I find unprofessional
On April 03 2015 03:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: The thing that really got me about the SPOTV casters was in game 1 where they starting talking about how he should stream on Afreeca and go back to broodwar....That was so ignorant it made me mute the audio (something I NEVER do, particularly with casters like Moonglade+Wolf)
Not only is it ignorant, but there is almost a desire to dislike him.
I dunno about ignorant but disrespectful and completely unnecessary. Seriously what can make you say something like that if you are doing a professional job?
On April 03 2015 03:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: The thing that really got me about the SPOTV casters was in game 1 where they starting talking about how he should stream on Afreeca and go back to broodwar....That was so ignorant it made me mute the audio (something I NEVER do, particularly with casters like Moonglade+Wolf)
Not only is it ignorant, but there is almost a desire to dislike him, which I find unprofessional
That really annoyed me too, they seem to take a bit too much liking to talking smack about him. Then again, Team Salmon sometimes has weird moments. E.g. casting SPL, they commonly just forget things that happened like 2 weeks before. For example when Flash played Dear, they felt the need to point out that they feel Dear's form isn't consistent, citing his ace match against Trap as an example. Not only was that the only game Dear lost in round 2 until he played Flash, he completely shut down and crushed Maru on the same day he lost to Trap. So really, they have their moments, but I still like them all.
On April 03 2015 03:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: The thing that really got me about the SPOTV casters was in game 1 where they starting talking about how he should stream on Afreeca and go back to broodwar....That was so ignorant it made me mute the audio (something I NEVER do, particularly with casters like Moonglade+Wolf)
Not only is it ignorant, but there is almost a desire to dislike him, which I find unprofessional
That really annoyed me too, they seem to take a bit too much liking to talking smack about him. Then again, Team Salmon sometimes has weird moments. E.g. casting SPL, they commonly just forget things that happened like 2 weeks before. For example when Flash played Dear, they felt the need to point out that they feel Dear's form isn't consistent, citing his ace match against Trap as an example. Not only was that the only game Dear lost in round 2 until he played Flash, he completely shut down and crushed Maru on the same day he lost to Trap. So really, they have their moments, but I still like them all.
I feel exactly the same too, and watch essentially every professional match played these days.
With all my criticism ITT, I still think they are good guys and good casters. Albeit need to spend more time studying and perhaps think a bit more at times.
But this is true of almost all humans in the world, so Its not a huge deal. No one is perfect, I am no different, and neither are they.
On April 03 2015 03:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: The thing that really got me about the SPOTV casters was in game 1 where they starting talking about how he should stream on Afreeca and go back to broodwar....That was so ignorant it made me mute the audio (something I NEVER do, particularly with casters like Moonglade+Wolf)
Not only is it ignorant, but there is almost a desire to dislike him, which I find unprofessional
That really annoyed me too, they seem to take a bit too much liking to talking smack about him. Then again, Team Salmon sometimes has weird moments. E.g. casting SPL, they commonly just forget things that happened like 2 weeks before. For example when Flash played Dear, they felt the need to point out that they feel Dear's form isn't consistent, citing his ace match against Trap as an example. Not only was that the only game Dear lost in round 2 until he played Flash, he completely shut down and crushed Maru on the same day he lost to Trap. So really, they have their moments, but I still like them all.
I feel exactly the same too, and watch essentially every professional match played these days.
With all my criticism ITT, I still think they are good guys and good casters. Albeit need to spend more time studying and perhaps think a bit more at times.
But this is true of almost all humans in the world, so Its not a huge deal. No one is perfect, I am no different, and neither are they.
This is getting a bit weird man. Are we the same person in a different part of the world or something? I don't think it's that common for people on the internet to agree with each other as much as we seem to. <.<
On April 03 2015 03:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: The thing that really got me about the SPOTV casters was in game 1 where they starting talking about how he should stream on Afreeca and go back to broodwar....That was so ignorant it made me mute the audio (something I NEVER do, particularly with casters like Moonglade+Wolf)
Not only is it ignorant, but there is almost a desire to dislike him, which I find unprofessional
That really annoyed me too, they seem to take a bit too much liking to talking smack about him. Then again, Team Salmon sometimes has weird moments. E.g. casting SPL, they commonly just forget things that happened like 2 weeks before. For example when Flash played Dear, they felt the need to point out that they feel Dear's form isn't consistent, citing his ace match against Trap as an example. Not only was that the only game Dear lost in round 2 until he played Flash, he completely shut down and crushed Maru on the same day he lost to Trap. So really, they have their moments, but I still like them all.
I feel exactly the same too, and watch essentially every professional match played these days.
With all my criticism ITT, I still think they are good guys and good casters. Albeit need to spend more time studying and perhaps think a bit more at times.
But this is true of almost all humans in the world, so Its not a huge deal. No one is perfect, I am no different, and neither are they.
This is getting a bit weird man. Are we the same person in a different part of the world or something? <.<
On April 03 2015 03:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: The thing that really got me about the SPOTV casters was in game 1 where they starting talking about how he should stream on Afreeca and go back to broodwar....That was so ignorant it made me mute the audio (something I NEVER do, particularly with casters like Moonglade+Wolf)
Not only is it ignorant, but there is almost a desire to dislike him, which I find unprofessional
That really annoyed me too, they seem to take a bit too much liking to talking smack about him. Then again, Team Salmon sometimes has weird moments. E.g. casting SPL, they commonly just forget things that happened like 2 weeks before. For example when Flash played Dear, they felt the need to point out that they feel Dear's form isn't consistent, citing his ace match against Trap as an example. Not only was that the only game Dear lost in round 2 until he played Flash, he completely shut down and crushed Maru on the same day he lost to Trap. So really, they have their moments, but I still like them all.
I feel exactly the same too, and watch essentially every professional match played these days.
With all my criticism ITT, I still think they are good guys and good casters. Albeit need to spend more time studying and perhaps think a bit more at times.
But this is true of almost all humans in the world, so Its not a huge deal. No one is perfect, I am no different, and neither are they.
This is getting a bit weird man. Are we the same person in a different part of the world or something? <.<
LOL. It's a bit scary,
who are your favorite players?
Top 3 of each race (no particular order) Terran: Flash (should be obvious, no?), Cure, Polt Protoss: Zest, Trap, PartinG Zerg: Rogue, Life, soO
On April 03 2015 03:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: The thing that really got me about the SPOTV casters was in game 1 where they starting talking about how he should stream on Afreeca and go back to broodwar....That was so ignorant it made me mute the audio (something I NEVER do, particularly with casters like Moonglade+Wolf)
Not only is it ignorant, but there is almost a desire to dislike him, which I find unprofessional
That really annoyed me too, they seem to take a bit too much liking to talking smack about him. Then again, Team Salmon sometimes has weird moments. E.g. casting SPL, they commonly just forget things that happened like 2 weeks before. For example when Flash played Dear, they felt the need to point out that they feel Dear's form isn't consistent, citing his ace match against Trap as an example. Not only was that the only game Dear lost in round 2 until he played Flash, he completely shut down and crushed Maru on the same day he lost to Trap. So really, they have their moments, but I still like them all.
I feel exactly the same too, and watch essentially every professional match played these days.
With all my criticism ITT, I still think they are good guys and good casters. Albeit need to spend more time studying and perhaps think a bit more at times.
But this is true of almost all humans in the world, so Its not a huge deal. No one is perfect, I am no different, and neither are they.
This is getting a bit weird man. Are we the same person in a different part of the world or something? <.<
LOL. It's a bit scary,
who are your favorite players?
Top 3 of each race (no particular order) Terran: Flash (should be obvious, no?), Cure, Polt Protoss: Zest, Trap, PartinG Zerg: Rogue, Life, soO
Looks like we are quite a like:
Terran: Flash(my posts, his reputation preceed him)/Cure(manliest player since reach)/Polt(on the fly intelligence)/Bomber(his mafia-esque approach)/MMA(for his incredibly refined style and determination/MVP (the greatest sc2 player ever, hard to quantify in this small of a space. Protoss: Parting(for his unbashed lack of pretension, creativity, and humanistic qualities.) (Zest, there are qualities to him which Iike-introducing cheesy components into macro builds, his sinister approach to long series ex. herO vs Zest Kespa cup finals) Zerg: Rogue (the meta king, sexy boy)
On April 03 2015 03:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: The thing that really got me about the SPOTV casters was in game 1 where they starting talking about how he should stream on Afreeca and go back to broodwar....That was so ignorant it made me mute the audio (something I NEVER do, particularly with casters like Moonglade+Wolf)
Not only is it ignorant, but there is almost a desire to dislike him, which I find unprofessional
That really annoyed me too, they seem to take a bit too much liking to talking smack about him. Then again, Team Salmon sometimes has weird moments. E.g. casting SPL, they commonly just forget things that happened like 2 weeks before. For example when Flash played Dear, they felt the need to point out that they feel Dear's form isn't consistent, citing his ace match against Trap as an example. Not only was that the only game Dear lost in round 2 until he played Flash, he completely shut down and crushed Maru on the same day he lost to Trap. So really, they have their moments, but I still like them all.
I feel exactly the same too, and watch essentially every professional match played these days.
With all my criticism ITT, I still think they are good guys and good casters. Albeit need to spend more time studying and perhaps think a bit more at times.
But this is true of almost all humans in the world, so Its not a huge deal. No one is perfect, I am no different, and neither are they.
This is getting a bit weird man. Are we the same person in a different part of the world or something? <.<
LOL. It's a bit scary,
who are your favorite players?
Top 3 of each race (no particular order) Terran: Flash (should be obvious, no?), Cure, Polt Protoss: Zest, Trap, PartinG Zerg: Rogue, Life, soO
Looks like we are quite a like:
Terran: Flash(my posts, his reputation preceed him)/Cure(manliest player since reach)/Polt(on the fly intelligence)/Bomber(his mafia-esque approach)/MMA(for his incredibly refined style and determination/MVP (the greatest sc2 player ever, hard to quantify in this small of a space. Protoss: Parting(one of my favorite players ever) (Zest, there are qualities to him which Iike-introducing cheesy components into macro builds, his sinister approach to long series ex. herO vs Zest Kespa cup finals) Zerg: Rogue (the meta king, sexy boy)
I respect to a lesser degree, the generic products of Kespa: ex.
InnoVation, Rain, Soulkey, etc.
That is actually really similar <.<
The bold part is hilarious but entirely adequate. Also, Polt kinda stole my heart last year when Protoss was dominating everything and he just made it look like it's balanced <.<.
On April 03 2015 03:07 Alucen-Will- wrote: The thing that really got me about the SPOTV casters was in game 1 where they starting talking about how he should stream on Afreeca and go back to broodwar....That was so ignorant it made me mute the audio (something I NEVER do, particularly with casters like Moonglade+Wolf)
Not only is it ignorant, but there is almost a desire to dislike him, which I find unprofessional
That really annoyed me too, they seem to take a bit too much liking to talking smack about him. Then again, Team Salmon sometimes has weird moments. E.g. casting SPL, they commonly just forget things that happened like 2 weeks before. For example when Flash played Dear, they felt the need to point out that they feel Dear's form isn't consistent, citing his ace match against Trap as an example. Not only was that the only game Dear lost in round 2 until he played Flash, he completely shut down and crushed Maru on the same day he lost to Trap. So really, they have their moments, but I still like them all.
I feel exactly the same too, and watch essentially every professional match played these days.
With all my criticism ITT, I still think they are good guys and good casters. Albeit need to spend more time studying and perhaps think a bit more at times.
But this is true of almost all humans in the world, so Its not a huge deal. No one is perfect, I am no different, and neither are they.
This is getting a bit weird man. Are we the same person in a different part of the world or something? <.<
LOL. It's a bit scary,
who are your favorite players?
Top 3 of each race (no particular order) Terran: Flash (should be obvious, no?), Cure, Polt Protoss: Zest, Trap, PartinG Zerg: Rogue, Life, soO
Looks like we are quite a like:
Terran: Flash(my posts, his reputation preceed him)/Cure(manliest player since reach)/Polt(on the fly intelligence)/Bomber(his mafia-esque approach)/MMA(for his incredibly refined style and determination/MVP (the greatest sc2 player ever, hard to quantify in this small of a space. Protoss: Parting(one of my favorite players ever) (Zest, there are qualities to him which Iike-introducing cheesy components into macro builds, his sinister approach to long series ex. herO vs Zest Kespa cup finals) Zerg: Rogue (the meta king, sexy boy)
I respect to a lesser degree, the generic products of Kespa: ex.
InnoVation, Rain, Soulkey, etc.
That is actually really similar <.<
The bold part is hilarious but entirely adequate. Also, Polt kinda stole my heart last year when Protoss was dominating everything and he just made it look like it's balanced <.<.
His on the fly decision making is excellent. I decided to watch his WCS group for whatever reason a month ago, and wow did he impress me.
On Catallena Protoss took the third base away from his main, Polt decided to move out with his bio army toward the third base and load up a drop. Then he immediately unloaded all 5 medivacs and scanned, killed the observer, sent a couple scouting marines forward where the protoss ball was waiting, loaded up all his medivacs and boosted right into the main. GG
stuchiu is like the first person on TL who understands Flash's playstyle wow :0
All those Flash fanboys who say he owns in lategame dont understand that he gets his strength from greedy openings. It was the same in BW. If Flash played safe standard he was beaten by top tier zergs. He just kept gambling a lot with 14ccs
On April 03 2015 05:08 sharkie wrote: stuchiu is like the first person on TL who understands Flash's playstyle wow :0
All those Flash fanboys who say he owns in lategame dont understand that he gets his strength from greedy openings. It was the same in BW. If Flash played safe standard he was beaten by top tier zergs. He just kept gambling a lot with 14ccs
Really, is this how he has 3 OSLs and 3MSLs under his belt, by gambling with 14CCs? I guess I will find out eventually, as I do plan on watching all his available BW VODs to understand the truth about his BW status. It is absolutely not enough to just "assume" from hearsay.
In the meanwhile if he can make "14CC into defense" work against early aggression of all sorts, he should go for it. It would shift the whole meta game. Absolutely. Do it Flash. For science. Today wasn't bad already, you often went early 3CCs and still managed to fend off the all-ins, just kinda messed it up elsewhere, so it was not a philosophical mistake. Don't worry.
On April 03 2015 05:08 sharkie wrote: stuchiu is like the first person on TL who understands Flash's playstyle wow :0
All those Flash fanboys who say he owns in lategame dont understand that he gets his strength from greedy openings. It was the same in BW. If Flash played safe standard he was beaten by top tier zergs. He just kept gambling a lot with 14ccs
Really, is this how he has 3 OSLs and 3MSLs under his belt, by gambling with 14CCs? I guess I will find out eventually, as I do plan on watching all his available BW VODs to understand the truth about his BW status. It is absolutely not enough to just "assume" from hearsay.
In the meanwhile if he can make "14CC into defense" work against early aggression of all sorts, he should go for it. It would shift the whole meta game. Absolutely. Do it Flash. For science. Today wasn't bad already, you often went early 3CCs and still managed to fend off the all-ins, just kinda messed it up elsewhere, so it was not a philosophical mistake. Don't worry.
Leenock messed up the game. Any top zerg would have easily 3-0ed Flash with Leenock's builds today. Predictable 3cc does not work. Life has made a career by laughing at terrans who try heh.
On April 03 2015 09:47 Deathstar wrote: What are the chances of flash race switching with the new expansion? I don't think he's really getting Terran. Same with jd as zerg...
Doubt it. Flash seems too established a player and too stubborn to race switch.
I really think Protoss would fit him far better though.
On April 03 2015 09:47 Deathstar wrote: What are the chances of flash race switching with the new expansion? I don't think he's really getting Terran. Same with jd as zerg...
Doubt it. Flash seems too established a player and too stubborn to race switch.
I really think Protoss would fit him far better though.
Yep, I've always felt that way. LOTV will likely change a lot about the current race's anyway. With the revival (hopefully of Mech), Terran may fit Flash a bit better in LOTV.
Personally I think he's fine, just needs to focus a bit more on microing his units and being a tad bit safer.
EPT
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SC2 section of the internets would implode! 
