|
On November 22 2014 05:26 ptbl wrote:
Guys, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than other esport's scenes. It's just the way it is. A lot of the fan base is older and more mature. Think about it. If Scarlett was in any other scene like the fighting game or CoD community, do you think she would receive a warm and welcoming reception. Nope.
So, Kas talking about "raping another person" in a game might not seem a big deal to other people, but in the sc2 community we take it very seriously. We are not 14 year olds who makes jokes about raping people. Most of us are in our twenties, so we understand the social implication of people's words and actions.
Can you imagine, someone from our scene yelling "fuck her in the pussy" out loud at a tournament? They would get crucified. While, in the other esports community they would laugh and joke about it.
So, I am glad we are taking what Kas said seriously. It show us that we are a mature and professional community.
Then there must be one way to go for all incidents like that, and obviously there isn't. I don't like how you define what "we" are and how "we" think as a community about (obvious) trash talking. How can you even compare someone yelling "Fuck her in the pussy" to someone tweeting to rape someone in the next match!? Really I don't want you to speak for our whole community as much as you wouldn't like me doing so.
|
On November 22 2014 05:26 ptbl wrote:
Guys, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than other esport's scenes. It's just the way it is. A lot of the fan base is older and more mature. Think about it. If Scarlett was in any other scene like the fighting game or CoD community, do you think she would receive a warm and welcoming reception. Nope.
So, Kas talking about "raping another person" in a game might not seem a big deal to other people, but in the sc2 community we take it very seriously. We are not 14 year olds who makes jokes about raping people. Most of us are in our twenties, so we understand the social implication of people's words and actions.
Can you imagine, someone from our scene yelling "fuck her in the pussy" out loud at a tournament? They would get crucified. While, in the other esports community thy would laugh and joke about it.
So, I am glad we are taking what Kas said seriously. It show's we are a mature and professional commumity.
Okay, obviously it was better here than it would have been in another community, but Scarlett did get shit quite bit from the SC2 community when she first popped up on the scene. It's not fair to say it was all "warm and welcome".
Stop pretending like SC2 is high and mighty above the rest. Are we slightly more mature overall? Sure, but not nearly as much as you think. Remember when Parting said he was gonna rape Avilo and he was a giant pussy? That shit made #1 on reddit and everyone thought it was fucking hilarious. We're not different.
|
If only Kas would have said it to some man rather than a woman. Silly of Kas to forget that rape jokes are only funny when done at the expense of other dudes.
On November 22 2014 05:05 Xoronius wrote:This drama can not end well: Let's focus on the more positive things in esports: + Show Spoiler +
And all is good in the world.
|
On November 22 2014 05:31 SetGuitarsToKill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 05:26 ptbl wrote:
Guys, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than other esport's scenes. It's just the way it is. A lot of the fan base is older and more mature. Think about it. If Scarlett was in any other scene like the fighting game or CoD community, do you think she would receive a warm and welcoming reception. Nope.
So, Kas talking about "raping another person" in a game might not seem a big deal to other people, but in the sc2 community we take it very seriously. We are not 14 year olds who makes jokes about raping people. Most of us are in our twenties, so we understand the social implication of people's words and actions.
Can you imagine, someone from our scene yelling "fuck her in the pussy" out loud at a tournament? They would get crucified. While, in the other esports community thy would laugh and joke about it.
So, I am glad we are taking what Kas said seriously. It show's we are a mature and professional commumity. Okay, obviously it was better here than it would have been in another community, but Scarlett did get shit quite bit from the SC2 community when she first popped up on the scene. It's not fair to say it was all "warm and welcome". Stop pretending like SC2 is high and mighty above the rest. Are we slightly more mature overall? Sure, but not nearly as much as you think. Remember when Parting said he was gonna rape Avilo and he was a giant pussy? That shit made #1 on reddit and everyone thought it was fucking hilarious. We're not different.
That was ok because avilo is a guy and unpopular >.>
|
So when some CS player "threatens" to destroy/kill/rape the enemy team, does he get disqualified too? Maybe even the police is called because he planning to run amok? Or, more likely, would nobody give a shit if no girls were on the team?
|
Banned as expected. Good on fragbite for not blinking and just pulling the trigger.
Edit: lol, at the people trying to say the ruling is bad. Trash talking is fine, but not in a super public place like twitter where you liken beating someone at sc2 to sexual assault. If your going to trash talk, so it like professional athletes, on the field and away from mics, not on twitter.
|
Poll: Kas - MaddeLisk situation(Vote): Well, trash talk is trash talk - no more, no less - and part of esports
(Vote): Tweet was harsh, but absolutely fine in its context from an ethics points of view
(Vote): Tweet was inappropriate but shouldn't be as big of a deal as it is
(Vote): Tweet was very inappropriate and should be punished as it was
(Vote): Tweet was an absolute disgrace for esports and its community there should be even more consequences
|
On November 22 2014 05:31 Leviance wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 05:26 ptbl wrote:
Guys, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than other esport's scenes. It's just the way it is. A lot of the fan base is older and more mature. Think about it. If Scarlett was in any other scene like the fighting game or CoD community, do you think she would receive a warm and welcoming reception. Nope.
So, Kas talking about "raping another person" in a game might not seem a big deal to other people, but in the sc2 community we take it very seriously. We are not 14 year olds who makes jokes about raping people. Most of us are in our twenties, so we understand the social implication of people's words and actions.
Can you imagine, someone from our scene yelling "fuck her in the pussy" out loud at a tournament? They would get crucified. While, in the other esports community they would laugh and joke about it.
So, I am glad we are taking what Kas said seriously. It show us that we are a mature and professional community. Then there must be one way to go for all incidents like that, and obviously there isn't. I don't like how you define what "we" are and how "we" think as a community about (obvious) trash talking. How can you even compare someone yelling "Fuck her in the pussy" to someone tweeting to rape someone in the next match!? Really I don't want you to speak for our whole community as much as you wouldn't like me doing so.
The majority of Team Liquid posters are above 20 and have some kind of undergrad experience if not more. A plurality come from Western Europe. Europe, especially in the west is a lot of more socially liberal and tolerant. They look down upon remarks that are insensitive and offensive. Here was the census that was taken last year http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/427622-graphs-tl-census-2013
So yes, I would say that a majority of our community is a lot more mature and older. Not only to they have some kind of higher education, but they hail from an area that is more socially tolerant and accepting.
|
On November 22 2014 05:35 Gr33d wrote:
So when some CS player "threatens" to destroy/kill/rape the enemy team, does he get disqualified too? Maybe even the police is called because he planning to run amok? Or, more likely, would nobody give a shit if no girls were on the team?
If that CS player was in a sc2 tournament, he should definitely get disqualified. I'm not too familiar with the CS;GO community, but they seem to be on the younger side compared to the sc2 scene.
|
On November 22 2014 05:40 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 05:31 Leviance wrote:On November 22 2014 05:26 ptbl wrote:
Guys, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than other esport's scenes. It's just the way it is. A lot of the fan base is older and more mature. Think about it. If Scarlett was in any other scene like the fighting game or CoD community, do you think she would receive a warm and welcoming reception. Nope.
So, Kas talking about "raping another person" in a game might not seem a big deal to other people, but in the sc2 community we take it very seriously. We are not 14 year olds who makes jokes about raping people. Most of us are in our twenties, so we understand the social implication of people's words and actions.
Can you imagine, someone from our scene yelling "fuck her in the pussy" out loud at a tournament? They would get crucified. While, in the other esports community they would laugh and joke about it.
So, I am glad we are taking what Kas said seriously. It show us that we are a mature and professional community. Then there must be one way to go for all incidents like that, and obviously there isn't. I don't like how you define what "we" are and how "we" think as a community about (obvious) trash talking. How can you even compare someone yelling "Fuck her in the pussy" to someone tweeting to rape someone in the next match!? Really I don't want you to speak for our whole community as much as you wouldn't like me doing so. The majority of Team Liquid posters are above 20 and have some kind of undergrad experience if not more. A plurality come from Western Europe. Europe, especially in the west is a lot of more socially liberal and tolerant. They look down upon remarks that are insensitive and offensive. Here was the census that was taken last year http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/427622-graphs-tl-census-2013So yes, I would say that a majority of our community is a lot more mature and older. Not only to they have some kind of higher education, but they hail from an area that is more socially tolerant and accepting.
So you are saying SC2 community equals Team Liquid community?
Wow. You have no idea.
|
On November 22 2014 05:40 ptbl wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 05:31 Leviance wrote:On November 22 2014 05:26 ptbl wrote:
Guys, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than other esport's scenes. It's just the way it is. A lot of the fan base is older and more mature. Think about it. If Scarlett was in any other scene like the fighting game or CoD community, do you think she would receive a warm and welcoming reception. Nope.
So, Kas talking about "raping another person" in a game might not seem a big deal to other people, but in the sc2 community we take it very seriously. We are not 14 year olds who makes jokes about raping people. Most of us are in our twenties, so we understand the social implication of people's words and actions.
Can you imagine, someone from our scene yelling "fuck her in the pussy" out loud at a tournament? They would get crucified. While, in the other esports community they would laugh and joke about it.
So, I am glad we are taking what Kas said seriously. It show us that we are a mature and professional community. Then there must be one way to go for all incidents like that, and obviously there isn't. I don't like how you define what "we" are and how "we" think as a community about (obvious) trash talking. How can you even compare someone yelling "Fuck her in the pussy" to someone tweeting to rape someone in the next match!? Really I don't want you to speak for our whole community as much as you wouldn't like me doing so. The majority of Team Liquid posters are above 20 and have some kind of undergrad experience if not more. A plurality come from Western Europe. Europe, especially in the west is a lot of more socially liberal and tolerant. They look down upon remarks that are insensitive and offensive. Here was the census that was taken last year http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/427622-graphs-tl-census-2013So yes, I would say that a majority of our community is a lot more mature and older. Not only to they have some kind of higher education, but they hail from an area that is more socially tolerant and accepting.
Funny that silencing anything you find offensive is viewed as "tolerant".
|
Sweden5554 Posts
On November 22 2014 04:26 Lumi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 04:22 Yhamm wrote:On November 22 2014 04:18 Lumi wrote:
Distasteful as it may be, that seems like a completely made-up ruling for a tournament to act on. Since when do we disqualify people mid-tournament for something they said on twitter? It's not about whether you think what he said was distasteful or not, it's about the lack of a precedent for this in our scene, and the lack of any actual rules that were outlined regarding the tournament for this kind of scenario? The disqualification only drew wayyyyy more attention to it, and now it lingers on.
Since when do we police people mid-tournament for their twitter activity? This seems like a huge, made-up over-extension of authority. I'm guessing that if these people could have censored the tweet themselves, they would have. Settling for the next best thing, then? Whatever you can do with whatever power you have?
I definitely don't agree with this conduct from a 'professional' tournament organization. People are obsessed with getting offended. English isn't his first language, and we all know that "rape" is commonly used as a synonym for owning/pwning/crushing/shitting-on.
This hypersensitivity to anything to do with rape is getting out of hand. And that's not to take away from rape itself. It's a comment on hypersensitivity to it. Is it possible to be hypersensitive? Yes. If someone actually defecated on someone, that would be pretty obscene, right? But if Kas said "I'm gonna shit on this girl" we wouldn't be here right now, I'm guessing. Slavery is also pretty bad, but if he said he's going to "own" this girl, we definitely wouldn't be here right now.
Getting offended is not an argument, and getting offended is in no way the same thing as someone having violated a rule. I have my doubts about whether the actually big, professional tournaments would fall into such a whimsical, impromptu executive decision, in the middle of their tournament, to do with what someone tweeted. Give me a break. your way of thinking is kinda lacking... you always need a first time or nothing will never happen, so consider this the "precedent". Since when do they police tweets? well, since now. And the rules, do you know them? maybe it's about time to stop using rape for everything, don't you agree? No, I don't. It's a personal choice and a great many people have died for our freedom of speech, only to have knee-jerk reactionaries using whatever power they can muster up to reprimand people who said something they don't like. What makes rape worse than murder, or slavery, and who can say? But if he said he's going to murder, or he's going to own, this wouldn't be happening. My thinking is on point and the lack of consistency in the logic deployed in this instance is blatant. This is a double-standard and exactly what we can expect from a growing culture of female self-victimization receiving special treatment. Special treatment. That's the precedent we should applaud and usher in? Give me a break.
Freedom of speech does not equate freedom to say whatever you want without consequences. There are laws that regulate hate-speech for example. or threats, there are rules for what you can and can't say in contracts (NDA etc) they all limit your speech. Just like you can't say whatever you want to on teamliquid.net without getting banned.
|
On November 22 2014 05:44 salle wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 04:26 Lumi wrote:On November 22 2014 04:22 Yhamm wrote:On November 22 2014 04:18 Lumi wrote:
Distasteful as it may be, that seems like a completely made-up ruling for a tournament to act on. Since when do we disqualify people mid-tournament for something they said on twitter? It's not about whether you think what he said was distasteful or not, it's about the lack of a precedent for this in our scene, and the lack of any actual rules that were outlined regarding the tournament for this kind of scenario? The disqualification only drew wayyyyy more attention to it, and now it lingers on.
Since when do we police people mid-tournament for their twitter activity? This seems like a huge, made-up over-extension of authority. I'm guessing that if these people could have censored the tweet themselves, they would have. Settling for the next best thing, then? Whatever you can do with whatever power you have?
I definitely don't agree with this conduct from a 'professional' tournament organization. People are obsessed with getting offended. English isn't his first language, and we all know that "rape" is commonly used as a synonym for owning/pwning/crushing/shitting-on.
This hypersensitivity to anything to do with rape is getting out of hand. And that's not to take away from rape itself. It's a comment on hypersensitivity to it. Is it possible to be hypersensitive? Yes. If someone actually defecated on someone, that would be pretty obscene, right? But if Kas said "I'm gonna shit on this girl" we wouldn't be here right now, I'm guessing. Slavery is also pretty bad, but if he said he's going to "own" this girl, we definitely wouldn't be here right now.
Getting offended is not an argument, and getting offended is in no way the same thing as someone having violated a rule. I have my doubts about whether the actually big, professional tournaments would fall into such a whimsical, impromptu executive decision, in the middle of their tournament, to do with what someone tweeted. Give me a break. your way of thinking is kinda lacking... you always need a first time or nothing will never happen, so consider this the "precedent". Since when do they police tweets? well, since now. And the rules, do you know them? maybe it's about time to stop using rape for everything, don't you agree? No, I don't. It's a personal choice and a great many people have died for our freedom of speech, only to have knee-jerk reactionaries using whatever power they can muster up to reprimand people who said something they don't like. What makes rape worse than murder, or slavery, and who can say? But if he said he's going to murder, or he's going to own, this wouldn't be happening. My thinking is on point and the lack of consistency in the logic deployed in this instance is blatant. This is a double-standard and exactly what we can expect from a growing culture of female self-victimization receiving special treatment. Special treatment. That's the precedent we should applaud and usher in? Give me a break. Freedom of speech does not equate freedom to say whatever you want without consequences. There are laws that regulate hate-speech for example. or threats, there are rules for what you can and can't say in contracts (NDA etc) they all limit your speech. Just like you can't say whatever you want to on teamliquid.net without getting banned.
TL is a private organization. Hate speech laws are bullshit.
|
If you have hate-speech laws, you have no freedom of speech.
|
It looks like some people are accepting that men threaten to rape other men just so they can threaten women too.
|
On November 22 2014 05:43 Leviance wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 05:40 ptbl wrote:On November 22 2014 05:31 Leviance wrote:On November 22 2014 05:26 ptbl wrote:
Guys, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than other esport's scenes. It's just the way it is. A lot of the fan base is older and more mature. Think about it. If Scarlett was in any other scene like the fighting game or CoD community, do you think she would receive a warm and welcoming reception. Nope.
So, Kas talking about "raping another person" in a game might not seem a big deal to other people, but in the sc2 community we take it very seriously. We are not 14 year olds who makes jokes about raping people. Most of us are in our twenties, so we understand the social implication of people's words and actions.
Can you imagine, someone from our scene yelling "fuck her in the pussy" out loud at a tournament? They would get crucified. While, in the other esports community they would laugh and joke about it.
So, I am glad we are taking what Kas said seriously. It show us that we are a mature and professional community. Then there must be one way to go for all incidents like that, and obviously there isn't. I don't like how you define what "we" are and how "we" think as a community about (obvious) trash talking. How can you even compare someone yelling "Fuck her in the pussy" to someone tweeting to rape someone in the next match!? Really I don't want you to speak for our whole community as much as you wouldn't like me doing so. The majority of Team Liquid posters are above 20 and have some kind of undergrad experience if not more. A plurality come from Western Europe. Europe, especially in the west is a lot of more socially liberal and tolerant. They look down upon remarks that are insensitive and offensive. Here was the census that was taken last year http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/427622-graphs-tl-census-2013So yes, I would say that a majority of our community is a lot more mature and older. Not only to they have some kind of higher education, but they hail from an area that is more socially tolerant and accepting. So you are saying SC2 community equals Team Liquid community? Wow. You have no idea.
I would say TL plays a large role in the esports scene of SC2. TL is the main hub for anything that is esports for sc2. If you follow tournaments and pro players, you probably have visited TL. You might not have posted, but you probably have read and lurked.
Remember, we aren't talking about the casual fan base. We are talking about a specific pie. A much smaller pie that is devoted to sc2 esports.
|
On November 22 2014 05:46 mabla wrote:
If you have hate-speech laws, you have no freedom of speech.
If that is so, you can be happy you don't have it then.
|
On November 22 2014 05:43 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 05:40 ptbl wrote:On November 22 2014 05:31 Leviance wrote:On November 22 2014 05:26 ptbl wrote:
Guys, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than other esport's scenes. It's just the way it is. A lot of the fan base is older and more mature. Think about it. If Scarlett was in any other scene like the fighting game or CoD community, do you think she would receive a warm and welcoming reception. Nope.
So, Kas talking about "raping another person" in a game might not seem a big deal to other people, but in the sc2 community we take it very seriously. We are not 14 year olds who makes jokes about raping people. Most of us are in our twenties, so we understand the social implication of people's words and actions.
Can you imagine, someone from our scene yelling "fuck her in the pussy" out loud at a tournament? They would get crucified. While, in the other esports community they would laugh and joke about it.
So, I am glad we are taking what Kas said seriously. It show us that we are a mature and professional community. Then there must be one way to go for all incidents like that, and obviously there isn't. I don't like how you define what "we" are and how "we" think as a community about (obvious) trash talking. How can you even compare someone yelling "Fuck her in the pussy" to someone tweeting to rape someone in the next match!? Really I don't want you to speak for our whole community as much as you wouldn't like me doing so. The majority of Team Liquid posters are above 20 and have some kind of undergrad experience if not more. A plurality come from Western Europe. Europe, especially in the west is a lot of more socially liberal and tolerant. They look down upon remarks that are insensitive and offensive. Here was the census that was taken last year http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/427622-graphs-tl-census-2013So yes, I would say that a majority of our community is a lot more mature and older. Not only do they have some kind of higher education, but they hail from an area that is more socially tolerant and accepting. Funny that silencing anything you find offensive is viewed as "tolerant".
I said socially tolerant also known as social civility. Here's one definition of being socially tolerant/civil:
Social civility is the ability for citizens to act in respectful ways for the shared expectation of a full-functioning societal unit. This civility is often described as a respect for others, a respect for the feelings of others, and, ultimately, unconditionally doing to and for others what we would have done unconditionally for ourselves (Hesselbein, 1997; Carter, 1998; Schatz, 2003a). A person illustrating civility is a giving, helping, empathic, and sensitive human being who genuinely values the worth and dignity of others. Within an atmosphere of civility, a community member feels a reasonable level of comfort and safety when walking the public venues of his/her community, e.g. stores, walkways, roads, etc. Source: http://susiewilson.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/social-tolerance-and-social-civility/
|
On November 22 2014 05:43 royalroadweed wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2014 05:40 ptbl wrote:On November 22 2014 05:31 Leviance wrote:On November 22 2014 05:26 ptbl wrote:
Guys, we hold ourselves to a higher standard than other esport's scenes. It's just the way it is. A lot of the fan base is older and more mature. Think about it. If Scarlett was in any other scene like the fighting game or CoD community, do you think she would receive a warm and welcoming reception. Nope.
So, Kas talking about "raping another person" in a game might not seem a big deal to other people, but in the sc2 community we take it very seriously. We are not 14 year olds who makes jokes about raping people. Most of us are in our twenties, so we understand the social implication of people's words and actions.
Can you imagine, someone from our scene yelling "fuck her in the pussy" out loud at a tournament? They would get crucified. While, in the other esports community they would laugh and joke about it.
So, I am glad we are taking what Kas said seriously. It show us that we are a mature and professional community. Then there must be one way to go for all incidents like that, and obviously there isn't. I don't like how you define what "we" are and how "we" think as a community about (obvious) trash talking. How can you even compare someone yelling "Fuck her in the pussy" to someone tweeting to rape someone in the next match!? Really I don't want you to speak for our whole community as much as you wouldn't like me doing so. The majority of Team Liquid posters are above 20 and have some kind of undergrad experience if not more. A plurality come from Western Europe. Europe, especially in the west is a lot of more socially liberal and tolerant. They look down upon remarks that are insensitive and offensive. Here was the census that was taken last year http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/general/427622-graphs-tl-census-2013So yes, I would say that a majority of our community is a lot more mature and older. Not only to they have some kind of higher education, but they hail from an area that is more socially tolerant and accepting. Funny that silencing anything you find offensive is viewed as "tolerant".
It's funnier how people try to use tolerance as a defense to say offensive shit. We are tolerant if different life styles and cultures. Being an asshole is neither of those.
|
On November 22 2014 05:39 Plansix wrote:
Banned as expected. Good on fragbite for not blinking and just pulling the trigger.
Edit: lol, at the people trying to say the ruling is bad. Trash talking is fine, but not in a super public place like twitter where you liken beating someone at sc2 to sexual assault. If your going to trash talk, so it like professional athletes, on the field and away from mics, not on twitter.
Yeah, seriously. I'm looking forward to see similar rulings in every tournament if so called professionals can't behave better than that. Silly Kas, who got a free ticket. Silly Nightend, who probably will never get one after this. I wonder who else will make a royal ass out of themselves before this day is over. 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
