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On March 17 2014 03:10 KrazyTrumpet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 03:09 Master Blaster wrote:
How many viewers did the final get??? I had a bet on whether it would reach 100k... It did reach 100k
we had 122 k
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BHWULq6.png)
+30k on the chinese stream.
And add to that the SPOTV viewers (korea) but they did not give away numbers.
so 152 k + SPOTV at the peak.
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Overall it was a great tournament with some games that will still considered to be among the top games of the year at the end of the year. I really enjoyed it, even if the finals were a big let down (not quite Nestea vs Inca level, but pretty far down there), thanks so much for the event ESL*!
I just hope herO is alright, someone cheer him up please 
*next time with a traditional price distribution please
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1488 Posts
On March 17 2014 03:51 FatCat_13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 17 2014 03:11 purakushi wrote:On March 17 2014 03:09 Master Blaster wrote:
How many viewers did the final get??? I had a bet on whether it would reach 100k... Ditto. What were the max tournament online and offline numbers? Meanwhile... LoL has >350k online Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. Your stats based on player base are irrelevant. I know a lot of dudes (including myself) who never launched SC2 yet still we watch big events from time to time. Cause it's SC1 that made the game fanbase. Old good times you know when we were students, no wife no kids... Nowadays we watch the game the same way some do for baseball, soccer etc. edit: regarding the comparison of the games - this is actually very important because of it's a fight for sponsorship. Quick example - soccer is not popular in USA, right? Not because it's a bad game (we know it's very popular in other countries) but because no sponsors invest into something not giving a return back in the short-term. Why would anybody do it if you can choose football, basketball and baseball? Whould you like SC2 be more like football or soccer in USA?
You are overstating the foreign fan-base for SC1.
If SC1 was that big, outside of Korea, then why does today's Bisu vs. hero match max. out at 1500 viewers, why is the LiveThread only 5 pages long. SC2 brought in a new fanbase, and united the fanbase of WC3 and BW.
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Did WoL just not happen for you?
And the fact Z and T where in good shape in the past, is the reason not changing the game in a good way?
A mirrrow final is always a bad thing.
i dont get it.
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On March 17 2014 04:07 ice-tea wrote:And the fact Z and T where in good shape in the past, is the reason not changing the game in a good way? A mirrrow final is always a bad thing. i dont get it.
"A mirror final is always a bad thing"
wat
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Russian Federation117 Posts
On March 17 2014 03:59 ArTiFaKs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 03:51 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 17 2014 03:11 purakushi wrote:On March 17 2014 03:09 Master Blaster wrote:
How many viewers did the final get??? I had a bet on whether it would reach 100k... Ditto. What were the max tournament online and offline numbers? Meanwhile... LoL has >350k online Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. Your stats based on player base are irrelevant. I know a lot of dudes (including myself) who never launched SC2 yet still we watch big events from time to time. Cause it's SC1 that made the game fanbase. Old good times you know when we were students, no wife no kids... Nowadays we watch the game the same way some do for baseball, soccer etc. How are the stats irrelevant? Yes some people like you might watch SC2 yet not install the game, but the vast majority of people watching SC2 are people who at least have tried playing on ladder. And when you have little fucking kids in here saying "ohh SC2 deadgame LoL has < 350k viewers" it's important to realize just how LITTLE amount of the people who "play" LoL actually give a fuck about their eSport compared to SC2. So these stats are NOT irrelevant they are actually highly relevant to the topic.
The stats themselves are fine as separate numbers but the conculsion was made using an assumption about players/watchers conversion ratio. That assumption may not be confirmed. Using my own story I am telling you the assumption might be wrong. Hope it clears the thing up.
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On March 17 2014 04:07 Rustug wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 03:51 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 17 2014 03:11 purakushi wrote:On March 17 2014 03:09 Master Blaster wrote:
How many viewers did the final get??? I had a bet on whether it would reach 100k... Ditto. What were the max tournament online and offline numbers? Meanwhile... LoL has >350k online Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. Your stats based on player base are irrelevant. I know a lot of dudes (including myself) who never launched SC2 yet still we watch big events from time to time. Cause it's SC1 that made the game fanbase. Old good times you know when we were students, no wife no kids... Nowadays we watch the game the same way some do for baseball, soccer etc. edit: regarding the comparison of the games - this is actually very important because of it's a fight for sponsorship. Quick example - soccer is not popular in USA, right? Not because it's a bad game (we know it's very popular in other countries) but because no sponsors invest into something not giving a return back in the short-term. Why would anybody do it if you can choose football, basketball and baseball? Whould you like SC2 be more like football or soccer in USA? You are overstating the foreign fan-base for SC1. If SC1 was that big, outside of Korea, then why does today's Bisu vs. hero match max. out at 1500 viewers, why is the LiveThread only 5 pages long. SC2 brought in a new fanbase, and united the fanbase of WC3 and BW.
It was 65, thank you.
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So use sentry vs TZ, and blink or proxy vs P. Do this 10 times and you're a millionaire.
Really, this was - for me - the absolute lamest final I saw. I watched herO v BiSu (with herO pulling breathtaking some drone/ling/hydra repel to archon/zealot/templar) and I'll watch european non-protoss only on SC2. The rest will be just Broodwar.
So far from this other short game.
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On March 17 2014 04:02 mqto wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 01:43 GreenMash wrote:On March 17 2014 01:39 mqto wrote:
We should enjoy these last months that sc2 is still considered one of the big e-sport titles.
100 000 nowadays for big tournament final just isn't very much. Few months and ESL will drop sc2 also
and all we have left is blizzcon. go away please I don't want to :´(. Playing and watching bio vs ling/bling/muta zvt is just the best thing that any game can offer. The straight up macro game where the winner is determined by who has better mechanics. Even when you lose you feel good knowing the reason was because the opponent just played better. It's just a shame Blizzard decided that winning with one race requires completely different skill set. One that doesn't produce interesting games to watch and playing against is very frustrating.
It's also a shame when you fail to realize sc2 tournaments have normally been pulling 100k as a max. It normally doesn't get any bigger, even during the extreme prime I think the max was 150k? Maybe 1 tournament pulled i 200k? (I don't think any tournament did, but I could be mistaken).
So the fact that IEM pulled 100k is just as good as it was in the past which is good. Should probably have been around longer to realize that.
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On March 17 2014 03:51 FatCat_13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 17 2014 03:11 purakushi wrote:On March 17 2014 03:09 Master Blaster wrote:
How many viewers did the final get??? I had a bet on whether it would reach 100k... Ditto. What were the max tournament online and offline numbers? Meanwhile... LoL has >350k online Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. Your stats based on player base are irrelevant. I know a lot of dudes (including myself) who never launched SC2 yet still we watch big events from time to time. Cause it's SC1 that made the game fanbase. Old good times you know when we were students, no wife no kids... Nowadays we watch the game the same way some do for baseball, soccer etc. edit: regarding the comparison of the games - this is actually very important because of it's a fight for sponsorship. Quick example - soccer is not popular in USA, right? Not because it's a bad game (we know it's very popular in other countries) but because no sponsors invest into something not giving a return back in the short-term. Why would anybody do it if you can choose football, basketball and baseball? Whould you like SC2 be more like football or soccer in USA?
Ahh the fundamental misunderstanding of how sponsorship works. BIG = GOOD, yes at a very simplistic level. Which is why every company sponsors the Superbowl.
Nope wait, they dont, because that's too expensive and their are far more sponsors than their are sponsorship slots to fill. My local football team when I was a kid, Spennymoor United, had a fucking sponsor. About 25 people showed up to their games and they were in a division so irrelevant that nobody knew they existed. Yet they had a sponsor. There are hundreds of thousands of potential sponsors that can be brought into eSports at ALL levels of sponsorship. Cost varies wildly, yet SC2 teams are cheaper to run for the most part since they don't rely on 5 players + sub + manager travelling all together to events to even be effective. Sure, League of Legends might get Ford, but you do actually understand there are SO many more sponsors to look at right? Not only that but the demographics dont necessarily overlap and sponsors need to be hitting those key demographics to get the ROI they are looking for.
So yeah can we not pretend to know anything about sponsorship when we don't play? BIG = GOOD is as blunt and worthless an idea as it gets when it comes to this industry.
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1488 Posts
On March 17 2014 04:07 Rustug wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 03:51 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 17 2014 03:11 purakushi wrote:On March 17 2014 03:09 Master Blaster wrote:
How many viewers did the final get??? I had a bet on whether it would reach 100k... Ditto. What were the max tournament online and offline numbers? Meanwhile... LoL has >350k online Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. Your stats based on player base are irrelevant. I know a lot of dudes (including myself) who never launched SC2 yet still we watch big events from time to time. Cause it's SC1 that made the game fanbase. Old good times you know when we were students, no wife no kids... Nowadays we watch the game the same way some do for baseball, soccer etc. edit: regarding the comparison of the games - this is actually very important because of it's a fight for sponsorship. Quick example - soccer is not popular in USA, right? Not because it's a bad game (we know it's very popular in other countries) but because no sponsors invest into something not giving a return back in the short-term. Why would anybody do it if you can choose football, basketball and baseball? Whould you like SC2 be more like football or soccer in USA? You are overstating the foreign fan-base for SC1. If SC1 was that big, outside of Korea, then why does today's Bisu vs. hero match max. out at 1500 viewers, why is the LiveThread only 5 pages long. SC2 brought in a new fanbase, and united the fanbase of WC3 and BW.
edit: regarding the comparison of the games - this is actually very important because of it's a fight for sponsorship. Quick example - soccer is not popular in USA, right? Not because it's a bad game (we know it's very popular in other countries) but because no sponsors invest into something not giving a return back in the short-term. Why would anybody do it if you can choose football, basketball and baseball?
Have you ever heard of the sport Golf. It doesn't get the numbers of American Football, Baseball or Basketball. So why are the sponsors interested. Because the people watching it are usually older and wealthy.
Now compare to SC2, older and having more money to spend.
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Canada8159 Posts
sad herO didn't win
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TB, please make a blog or something where you say those things.
We have far too few positive posts these days. And it's pretty hard to convince anybody theae days for as long as there us noone but Jinro standing up for the game.
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On March 17 2014 04:22 Big J wrote:
TB, please make a blog or something where you say those things.
We have far too few positive posts these days. And it's pretty hard to convince anybody theae days for as long as there us noone but Jinro standing up for the game.
Way ahead of ya - https://soundcloud.com/totalbiscuit/official-starcraft-2-dick
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1488 Posts
On March 17 2014 04:10 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 04:07 Rustug wrote:On March 17 2014 03:51 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 17 2014 03:11 purakushi wrote:On March 17 2014 03:09 Master Blaster wrote:
How many viewers did the final get??? I had a bet on whether it would reach 100k... Ditto. What were the max tournament online and offline numbers? Meanwhile... LoL has >350k online Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. Your stats based on player base are irrelevant. I know a lot of dudes (including myself) who never launched SC2 yet still we watch big events from time to time. Cause it's SC1 that made the game fanbase. Old good times you know when we were students, no wife no kids... Nowadays we watch the game the same way some do for baseball, soccer etc. edit: regarding the comparison of the games - this is actually very important because of it's a fight for sponsorship. Quick example - soccer is not popular in USA, right? Not because it's a bad game (we know it's very popular in other countries) but because no sponsors invest into something not giving a return back in the short-term. Why would anybody do it if you can choose football, basketball and baseball? Whould you like SC2 be more like football or soccer in USA? You are overstating the foreign fan-base for SC1. If SC1 was that big, outside of Korea, then why does today's Bisu vs. hero match max. out at 1500 viewers, why is the LiveThread only 5 pages long. SC2 brought in a new fanbase, and united the fanbase of WC3 and BW. It was 65, thank you.
My apologies, it was supposed to be 65.
Still Right on all my other facts though. 
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On March 17 2014 03:51 FatCat_13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 17 2014 03:11 purakushi wrote:On March 17 2014 03:09 Master Blaster wrote:
How many viewers did the final get??? I had a bet on whether it would reach 100k... Ditto. What were the max tournament online and offline numbers? Meanwhile... LoL has >350k online Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. Your stats based on player base are irrelevant. I know a lot of dudes (including myself) who never launched SC2 yet still we watch big events from time to time. Cause it's SC1 that made the game fanbase. Old good times you know when we were students, no wife no kids... Nowadays we watch the game the same way some do for baseball, soccer etc. edit: regarding the comparison of the games - this is actually very important because of it's a fight for sponsorship. Quick example - soccer is not popular in USA, right? Not because it's a bad game (we know it's very popular in other countries) but because no sponsors invest into something not giving a return back in the short-term. Why would anybody do it if you can choose football, basketball and baseball? Whould you like SC2 be more like football or soccer in USA?
You do realize you are completly missing the point?
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On March 17 2014 04:23 Zeze wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 03:51 FatCat_13 wrote:On March 17 2014 03:33 TotalBiscuit wrote:On March 17 2014 03:11 purakushi wrote:On March 17 2014 03:09 Master Blaster wrote:
How many viewers did the final get??? I had a bet on whether it would reach 100k... Ditto. What were the max tournament online and offline numbers? Meanwhile... LoL has >350k online Time to drop some motherfuckin stats. 100k for SC2 is GREAT. Wanna know why? Because according to SC2ranks.com, there are 328,642 ladder players active during this season. So why is this great? Well, whenever someone drops some stupid statistic like "Oh look at this LoL final getting 350,000 in their best case scenario of white dudes vs Koreans", you can look at LoL's player statistics and see that actually the conversion of players to eSports viewers is far lower. According to Riot stats, which are most likely fudged but even if they're anywhere near... you have over 60 million monthly players yet these events are only converting that into 385,000 viewers concurrent? It's impossible to know how many uniques the SC2 and LoL streams got but if we compare concurrent, you are looking in the best possible case scenario at a ridiculous 32% player to viewer ratio for Starcraft 2 and fairly pitiful 1.91% ratio for League of Legends. I'm saying best case scenario because SC2ranks is only pulling ladder player stats whereas the League stats include everyone in every possible game mode. SC2 has more than 350,000 active players doing team games, unranked customs and Arcade, but even if you tripled SC2s playerbase, the ratio is still ridiculous. SC2s audience in general is more supportive of competitive play, more interested in eSports and as a result more likely to respond passionately (and negatively) in situations such as this. We should be celebrating that conversion ratio, not trying to chase a viewercount that passed us two years ago and is going to keep passing us whether we like it or not. We have a large, healthy playerbase who likes to watch eSports events and who is on average older with more disposable income. That's very marketable to sponsors. If organisations are savvy and careful, they can create sustainable businesses around this game. WCS continues to get strong numbers, SHOUTcraft Clan Wars, a $500 per match event, is pulling in more than 40,000 viewers across its live shows, reruns and vods and is running in the black while continuing to grow. IEM Cologne was an instudio event that peaked at over 100,000 if you include the foreign language streams, again a model of sustainability and common sense. People are extra salty after a terrible final and a questionable prize distribution model, but can we please just take a step back, look at the facts and stop comparing ourselves to a free2play dota-clone with mass casual appeal. Guess what, we're also less popular than Angry Birds, are you going to get salty about that too? If you actually love this game as much as you all claim, then focus on enjoying great games and supporting cool events. Your stats based on player base are irrelevant. I know a lot of dudes (including myself) who never launched SC2 yet still we watch big events from time to time. Cause it's SC1 that made the game fanbase. Old good times you know when we were students, no wife no kids... Nowadays we watch the game the same way some do for baseball, soccer etc. edit: regarding the comparison of the games - this is actually very important because of it's a fight for sponsorship. Quick example - soccer is not popular in USA, right? Not because it's a bad game (we know it's very popular in other countries) but because no sponsors invest into something not giving a return back in the short-term. Why would anybody do it if you can choose football, basketball and baseball? Whould you like SC2 be more like football or soccer in USA? You do realize you are completly missing the point?
If he realised that he wouldnt have posted in the first place 
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On March 17 2014 04:12 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2014 04:02 mqto wrote:On March 17 2014 01:43 GreenMash wrote:On March 17 2014 01:39 mqto wrote:
We should enjoy these last months that sc2 is still considered one of the big e-sport titles.
100 000 nowadays for big tournament final just isn't very much. Few months and ESL will drop sc2 also
and all we have left is blizzcon. go away please I don't want to :´(. Playing and watching bio vs ling/bling/muta zvt is just the best thing that any game can offer. The straight up macro game where the winner is determined by who has better mechanics. Even when you lose you feel good knowing the reason was because the opponent just played better. It's just a shame Blizzard decided that winning with one race requires completely different skill set. One that doesn't produce interesting games to watch and playing against is very frustrating. It's also a shame when you fail to realize sc2 tournaments have normally been pulling 100k as a max. It normally doesn't get any bigger, even during the extreme prime I think the max was 150k? Maybe 1 tournament pulled i 200k? (I don't think any tournament did, but I could be mistaken). So the fact that IEM pulled 100k is just as good as it was in the past which is good. Should probably have been around longer to realize that.
ESL have always had just a few games on their IEM tournament series.
I remember the old days when cs 1.6 had 30 000 viewers in finals and it was good number.
When sc2 came out it replaced cs 1.6. LoL, back in the days when it was still relatively small game replaced quake live.
I've been part of both those communities and it is pretty sad to see your favorite game dying on pro level.
Now LoL had 400k viewers and CS:Go 250k. Don't you think it's likely that they keep doing the same thing what they've been doing in the past?
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EPT
