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On February 14 2014 00:00 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. no, they cant oO i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way. Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that
What do you mean they can't? Yes, if you have the upgrade Phoenixes outrange the Corruptors, and are faster and shoot while moving. If Phoenixes have the upgrade, the only way to counter them is to pray for Protoss to fuck up and hit a good Fungal so you can kill them, no Zerg flying army can match them.
This is not me whining about Phoenixes, a lot of things in SC2 are like that as well and you always have to have hard counters against certain units than the opponent is making hard counters to your hard counters etc. I hope that they change at least something for LotV.
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On February 14 2014 00:05 Dinotramp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:03 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 14 2014 00:02 Dinotramp wrote:
Never could've predicted that bracket. Your whining is annoying Also San, MC, Stardust are by far the best players in the bracket. I'm just surprised TLO and Revenge didn't do that well, been quite good recently.
Looking at the bracket, it wasn't really surprising that Revenge went out early. I'm a bit sad about TLO though, I think he is much better than Hanfy.
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The range upgrade is necessary vs muta/corruptor, otherwise on big maps you just can't fight that composition(like alterzim). You need to remember that corruptor are faster than any protoss unit except stalker(=) and phoenix(and oracle and warp prism, but of course these don't count). On big maps stalkers can't do much, not even vs pure mutas, so getting a chance(wich require a costant micro) to fight is ok, especially if you compare phoenix production(2-3 at once) to muta/corruptor production(little larva needed).
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On February 14 2014 00:07 Niko_Thien wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:05 Dinotramp wrote:On February 14 2014 00:03 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 14 2014 00:02 Dinotramp wrote:
Never could've predicted that bracket. Your whining is annoying Also San, MC, Stardust are by far the best players in the bracket. I'm just surprised TLO and Revenge didn't do that well, been quite good recently. Looking at the bracket, it wasn't really surprising that Revenge went out early. I'm a bit sad about TLO though, I think he is much better than Hanfy.
I always get upset seeing TLO drop out of any tournament, by far the most hard working (and handsome) guy in SC!
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On February 14 2014 00:07 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:00 KalWarkov wrote:On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. no, they cant oO i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way. Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that What do you mean they can't? Yes, if you have the upgrade Phoenixes outrange the Corruptors, and are faster and shoot while moving. If Phoenixes have the upgrade, the only way to counter them is to pray for Protoss to fuck up and hit a good Fungal so you can kill them, no Zerg flying army can match them. This is not me whining about Phoenixes, a lot of things in SC2 are like that as well and you always have to have hard counters against certain units than the opponent is making hard counters to your hard counters etc. I hope that they change at least something for LotV.
There are things that are an issue in sc2. Phoenix vs Corruptor is not one of them. It's entirely dependent on the game beforehand. If your base is camped with muta and corruptor while you try to kite with your phoenix it doesn't matter if the Zerg army can't catch it - because it doesn't have to. The corruptors are a meat shield for the mutas who do the damage. This is really not a problem in the game because it all depends on how things have unfolded beforehand.
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On February 14 2014 00:04 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:03 m0ck wrote:On February 14 2014 00:00 KalWarkov wrote:On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. no, they cant oO i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way. Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that Corrupter is a dedicated anti-air unit, they should be able to do well against phoenixes.. With the range-upgrade and in large numbers, phoenixes can hold off a lot more than their own supply in muta+corrupter. They really are able to do very well vs Phoenixes. Who are, I might add, also a dedicated anti-air unit. It is only when Protoss has managed to survive long enough to get 15+ Phoenixes with range and upgrades that they can occasionally kite vs Corruptors. But if you look away for a moment you're going to get eaten alive. Phoenixes never trade efficiently vs Corruptors.
Tell that to the 30 drones and 10 hydras that phonixes killed over the two games.. ^^
Yes, protoss need to micro, but so do zerg in the straight up battle or it's the same deal. With a large phoenix count, zerg air (and, more importantly, zerg air aggression) is dead imo. I'm not calling imbalance, but they can trade evenly vs. corrupters and mutas and have the potential to win in a landslide (like we saw in this game).
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United States23455 Posts
Oh wow this started early.
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On February 14 2014 00:07 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:00 KalWarkov wrote:On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. no, they cant oO i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way. Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that What do you mean they can't? Yes, if you have the upgrade Phoenixes outrange the Corruptors, and are faster and shoot while moving. If Phoenixes have the upgrade, the only way to counter them is to pray for Protoss to fuck up and hit a good Fungal so you can kill them, no Zerg flying army can match them. This is not me whining about Phoenixes, a lot of things in SC2 are like that as well and you always have to have hard counters against certain units than the opponent is making hard counters to your hard counters etc. I hope that they change at least something for LotV.
Just get in a test unit map with equal number of phoenix and corruptor, than micro that to win. Now think of doing it in a game where you have to defend multiple bases and doing zealot warpins around the map while keeping the macro up
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I think Stardust can take it.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
I love this - corruptor is dedicated anti-air unit therefore it has to do well against phoenix. And what the hell is phoenix? Dedicated anti-ground unit or what? It's wonderful time 
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On February 14 2014 00:12 Niko_Thien wrote:
I think Stardust can take it.
Sure he can. However, he is up against the BossToss :p
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On February 14 2014 00:10 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:07 Ramiz1989 wrote:On February 14 2014 00:00 KalWarkov wrote:On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. no, they cant oO i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way. Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that What do you mean they can't? Yes, if you have the upgrade Phoenixes outrange the Corruptors, and are faster and shoot while moving. If Phoenixes have the upgrade, the only way to counter them is to pray for Protoss to fuck up and hit a good Fungal so you can kill them, no Zerg flying army can match them. This is not me whining about Phoenixes, a lot of things in SC2 are like that as well and you always have to have hard counters against certain units than the opponent is making hard counters to your hard counters etc. I hope that they change at least something for LotV. There are things that are an issue in sc2. Phoenix vs Corruptor is not one of them. It's entirely dependent on the game beforehand. If your base is camped with muta and corruptor while you try to kite with your phoenix it doesn't matter if the Zerg army can't catch it - because it doesn't have to. The corruptors are a meat shield for the mutas who do the damage. This is really not a problem in the game because it all depends on how things have unfolded beforehand.
Sorry but that is very narrow way of looking at it. Yes, if you are in base, you don't have to catch the Phoenixes but Phoenixes will just keep hit and running back and forth and will kill your units if you don't do anything. I can see how you as a Protoss player think that it is fine when you get big number of Phoenixes with the upgrade to counter whole Zerg air arsenal.
Hitting perfect Fungals requires for Protoss player to make a mistake with his Phoenixes, and even then, if you are having ground units such as Archons, Stalkers or with few Void Rays your Muta + Corruptor ball won't be doing much.
On February 14 2014 00:12 eusoc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:07 Ramiz1989 wrote:On February 14 2014 00:00 KalWarkov wrote:On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. no, they cant oO i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way. Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that What do you mean they can't? Yes, if you have the upgrade Phoenixes outrange the Corruptors, and are faster and shoot while moving. If Phoenixes have the upgrade, the only way to counter them is to pray for Protoss to fuck up and hit a good Fungal so you can kill them, no Zerg flying army can match them. This is not me whining about Phoenixes, a lot of things in SC2 are like that as well and you always have to have hard counters against certain units than the opponent is making hard counters to your hard counters etc. I hope that they change at least something for LotV. Just get in a test unit map with equal number of phoenix and corruptor, than micro that to win. Now think of doing it in a game where you have to defend multiple bases and doing zealot warpins around the map while keeping the macro up
Yes and Zerg player is doing of course nothing, correct? Because from your post it seems that playing Zerg takes no effort at all.
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What is MC's go-to build on this map?
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United States23455 Posts
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United States23455 Posts
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wow that was horrible... MC :/
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On February 14 2014 00:16 Ghanburighan wrote:
What is MC's go-to build on this map?
The one he just did. Aggression with zealot stalker and MSC.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Aaand the game is over
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On February 14 2014 00:16 Ghanburighan wrote:
What is MC's go-to build on this map?
Zealot Stalker MSC pressure
Didnt work against Hasu either
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EPT
