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On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T
I personally kind of agree. Phoenixes seem "too necessary" for Protoss against mutas. It's either get mutas and crush them, or have no good solution at all. Stalker/Archon/Storm are all much weaker since HOTS introduced fast regen.
Still, that didn't lose TLO this game. He just forgot his mutas for a little while.
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On February 13 2014 23:54 20cts wrote:
TLO didn't protect his mutas with his corruptors.
i think he simply didnt expect phoenix range to have finished so early
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On February 13 2014 23:54 20cts wrote:
TLO didn't protect his mutas with his corruptors.
They came out a bit late, and hasu hid his building phoenix count in order to do the assault that killed almost all of TLO's army.
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On February 13 2014 23:54 20cts wrote:
TLO didn't protect his mutas with his corruptors.
I think the plan was to protect them with his pack of hydras that had harassed the third earlier.
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On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too
Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well.
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Czech Republic12134 Posts
On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well.
Don't forget muta + corruptor  TLO played this badly, he did not lost to phoenix range.
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On February 13 2014 23:55 DJHelium wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 23:54 20cts wrote:
TLO didn't protect his mutas with his corruptors. I think the plan was to protect them with his pack of hydras that had harassed the third earlier.
I agree, I think this was the plan too.
On another note, good on ESL to give us a short rundown about the maches we don't watch. Much better than nothing.
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On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well.
heavily upgraded phoenix do kinda "ok" vs. corrupters. bear in mind that they cost the same as corrupters on their own. not including the fleet beacon + range upgrade.
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On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well.
no, they cant oO
i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way.
Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that
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On February 13 2014 23:59 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. heavily upgraded phoenix do kinda "ok" vs. corrupters. bear in mind that they cost the same as corrupters on their own. not including the fleet beacon + range upgrade.
With range it's very much an intense micro battle to fight corruptors with phoenix. It'd be entirely impossible without the range upgrade unless the phoenix outnumbered the Corruptors a lot.
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Never could've predicted that bracket.
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On February 14 2014 00:01 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 23:59 Doublemint wrote:On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. heavily upgraded phoenix do kinda "ok" vs. corrupters. bear in mind that they cost the same as corrupters on their own. not including the fleet beacon + range upgrade. With range it's very much an intense micro battle to fight corruptors with phoenix. It'd be entirely impossible without the range upgrade unless the phoenix outnumbered the Corruptors a lot.
yeah, pretty much exactly my point.
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On February 14 2014 00:00 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. no, they cant oO i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way. Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that
Corrupter is a dedicated anti-air unit, they should be able to do well against phoenixes.. With the range-upgrade and in large numbers, phoenixes can hold off a lot more than their own supply in muta+corrupter.
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
On February 14 2014 00:02 Dinotramp wrote:
Never could've predicted that bracket.
Your whining is annoying
Also San, MC, Stardust are by far the best players in the bracket.
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Just went up and watched the grid on liquipedia.
Protoss fest again. -.-
No one will complain about balance on tl.net for obvious reasons, but as a viewer some more non-PvP rounds would be pretty nice to watch. Sad that Taeja couldn't make it. At least we have some pretty decent terrans and one good zerg in stage 2 groups. Looking forward to these!
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On February 14 2014 00:03 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:00 KalWarkov wrote:On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. no, they cant oO i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way. Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that Corrupter is a dedicated anti-air unit, they should be able to do well against phoenixes.. With the range-upgrade and in large numbers, phoenixes can hold off a lot more than their own supply in muta+corrupter.
They really are able to do very well vs Phoenixes. Who are, I might add, also a dedicated anti-air unit. It is only when Protoss has managed to survive long enough to get 15+ Phoenixes with range and upgrades that they can occasionally kite vs Corruptors. But if you look away for a moment you're going to get eaten alive. Phoenixes never trade efficiently vs Corruptors.
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On February 14 2014 00:03 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:02 Dinotramp wrote:
Never could've predicted that bracket. Your whining is annoying Also San, MC, Stardust are by far the best players in the bracket.
What insight
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On February 14 2014 00:03 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:02 Dinotramp wrote:
Never could've predicted that bracket. Your whining is annoying Also San, MC, Stardust are by far the best players in the bracket.
I'm just surprised TLO and Revenge didn't do that well, been quite good recently.
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On February 14 2014 00:03 m0ck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:00 KalWarkov wrote:On February 13 2014 23:56 FeyFey wrote:On February 13 2014 23:53 sparklyresidue wrote:On February 13 2014 23:52 Topin wrote:
is the phoenix upgrade really necessary for the game? i feel that phoenix do the job ok w/o and the +range is an overkill T_T Kinda felt that way watching this game too Phoenix got a range increase from the get go in HotS, so the Range upgrade is super strong now. I think they will have to overwork this a bit, since Phoenix can pretty much fight Corrupters as well. no, they cant oO i mean they can if you have twice as many and you have the upgrade done, but its not like they are cheaper in any way. Hasu started to produce additional phoenix, a 2nd stargate and the fleet beacon well before he scouted it. that was the main reason for tha game to be like that Corrupter is a dedicated anti-air unit, they should be able to do well against phoenixes.. With the range-upgrade and in large numbers, phoenixes can hold off a lot more than their own supply in muta+corrupter.
They do well against phoenix... phoenix without upgrades and without the higher numbers do absolute abysmal damage and get wrecked. This game is hardly exemplary of any balance discussion attempt. TLO let his mutas die.
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On February 14 2014 00:05 Dinotramp wrote:Show nested quote +On February 14 2014 00:03 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 14 2014 00:02 Dinotramp wrote:
Never could've predicted that bracket. Your whining is annoying Also San, MC, Stardust are by far the best players in the bracket. I'm just surprised TLO and Revenge didn't do that well, been quite good recently.
Yeah, Revenge is quite a beast, but against MC and San...
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EPT
