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ASUS ROG @NorthCon Day 1 2013 - Page 144

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9443 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-06 23:01:35
December 06 2013 23:01 GMT
#2861
On December 07 2013 07:56 Tanzklaue wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 07:53 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:51 Viserion wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good


Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens.


What are you going to do with Ravens?


Detection primarily.

You simply can't rely on scans when your OC's get sniped so easily.

you ravens get sniped even easier following that logic.

as a terran, you need to forc zerg to build things other than mutalisks. also a good mine-turret defense even though mines are pretty bad now.


yeh its true. You will need to have quiete a few of them probably, and that just means your straight up battle army is pretty bad. But its the absolute only altenative i can see here.

One thing you possibly can is to put up Pdd's at your bases. This may mean that a high amount of turrets (let's say 6-7 per base) + 1-2 pdd's can fend off the 30 Mutalisks somewhat efficiently. This may make it possible for the terran player to attack as it makes the Mutalisk less efficient and then you use your Ravens for detection with your main army.

I guess vs Scarletts mass Mutalisk style you can afford to invest alot into defense since Scarletts main army is less cost efficient anyway due to having fewer blings in her composition.
DJHelium
Profile Joined December 2010
Sweden13480 Posts
December 06 2013 23:01 GMT
#2862
On December 07 2013 07:59 StarVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 07:58 JustPassingBy wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:57 StarVe wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:53 Zealously wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Scarlett!

On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix.


Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments.


I don't think we can argue against Scarlett currently being better and performing better than Vortix though

She hasn't advanced yet while VortiX is in the next round. Techincally VortiX is better currently. ;D


    (1652) Scarlett  0-0  VortiX (1690)      
---------------------------------------------
2.63% 5-0 0-5 3.69%
6.80% 5-1 1-5 8.92%
10.54% 5-2 2-5 12.92%
12.71% 5-3 3-5 14.57%
13.15% 5-4 4-5 14.07%
---------------------------------------------
45.82% 54.18%

Median outcome: Scarlett 4-5 VortiX

We only accept Bo69s.


Well then Snute wins.
#1 player in the world atm: J-god | Follow me on twitter! @DJHelium
Swisslink
Profile Joined March 2011
2956 Posts
December 06 2013 23:02 GMT
#2863
On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good


Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens.

Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary...


But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo.


Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least.

But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles.
Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level


Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well.

There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well.
Cheren
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States2911 Posts
December 06 2013 23:02 GMT
#2864
On December 07 2013 08:01 m0ck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 07:53 Dodgin wrote:
mutas will save foreigners just like bl/infestor did

all hail david kim

This is particularly funny after Life beat innovation with BLs ^^


Life is such a hipster, makes lings when everyone's making BLs and makes BLs when everyone's making mutas.
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
December 06 2013 23:02 GMT
#2865
On December 07 2013 08:01 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 08:00 Squat wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:57 StarVe wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:53 Zealously wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Scarlett!

On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix.


Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments.


I don't think we can argue against Scarlett currently being better and performing better than Vortix though

She hasn't advanced yet while VortiX is in the next round. Techincally VortiX is better currently. ;D

I cannot express with words how sick I am of these debates.


I think most of them are in jest at this point, no?

Telling genuine stupidity from trolling is like the final challenge of the internet.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
December 06 2013 23:02 GMT
#2866
Naruto if you are reading and know the maps for the series at any time I would greatly appreciate it <3
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States46138 Posts
December 06 2013 23:02 GMT
#2867
On December 07 2013 08:00 JustPassingBy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 07:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Scarlett!

On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix.


Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments.


It's not a double standard. There are exactly two foreigners who are considered to be on par with mid/ top Koreans, and they're Scarlett and Naniwa. Vortix isn't ever even in the conversation lol which is why it's embarrassing for MMA to lose to him.


Scarlett participates in many more tournaments than Vortix, can't blame Vortix's skills for her being more prominent representing the foreigners in the international scene.


Right, but cheering for one player and not cheering for a second player doesn't create a "double standart" [sic].
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
December 06 2013 23:03 GMT
#2868
On December 07 2013 08:00 Squat wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 07:57 StarVe wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:53 Zealously wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Scarlett!

On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix.


Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments.


I don't think we can argue against Scarlett currently being better and performing better than Vortix though

She hasn't advanced yet while VortiX is in the next round. Techincally VortiX is better currently. ;D

I cannot express with words how sick I am of these debates.

Haha, come on, you didn't really take this seriously.

I thought only Germans were supposed to do that.
Fjodorov
Profile Joined December 2011
5007 Posts
December 06 2013 23:03 GMT
#2869
On December 07 2013 07:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Scarlett!

On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix.


Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments.


It's not a double standard. There are exactly two foreigners who are considered to be on par with mid/ top Koreans, and they're Scarlett and Naniwa. Vortix isn't ever even in the conversation lol which is why it's embarrassing for MMA to lose to him.


You are right about Scarlett and Naniwa being the best foreigners but how does that make it embarrassing for MMA to lose to Vortix? He is still good, and like many foreigners not very consistent but has a high top level but a low worst level, also he isnt a foreign terran. Vortix having a good day and playing good, which he did, MMA not being in his best shape, is not like Bhutan beating Spain in football like you make it sound lol.
Cheren
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
United States2911 Posts
December 06 2013 23:03 GMT
#2870
On December 07 2013 08:03 StarVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 08:00 Squat wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:57 StarVe wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:53 Zealously wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Scarlett!

On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix.


Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments.


I don't think we can argue against Scarlett currently being better and performing better than Vortix though

She hasn't advanced yet while VortiX is in the next round. Techincally VortiX is better currently. ;D

I cannot express with words how sick I am of these debates.

Haha, come on, you didn't really take this seriously.

I thought only Germans were supposed to do that.


Don't forget Romanians <3
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9443 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-06 23:05:05
December 06 2013 23:04 GMT
#2871
On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good


Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens.

Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary...


But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo.


Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least.

But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles.
Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level


Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well.

There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well.


I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression.

But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory.

Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant. Mutalisks were only buffed due to the introduciton of the Widow Mine. Now that they been nerfed, it also makes sense to nerf Mutalisks.
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
December 06 2013 23:05 GMT
#2872
On December 07 2013 08:04 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good


Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens.

Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary...


But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo.


Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least.

But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles.
Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level


Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well.

There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well.


I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression.

But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory.

Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant.


If you can't beat it then don't. The answer is to go back to WoL style 3 base all-in pushes.
Moderator
sharkie
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Austria18674 Posts
December 06 2013 23:05 GMT
#2873
On December 07 2013 08:04 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good


Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens.

Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary...


But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo.


Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least.

But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles.
Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level


Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well.

There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well.


I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression.

But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory.

Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant. Mutalisks were only buffed due to the introduciton of the Widow Mine. Now that they been nerfed, it also makes sense to nerf Mutalisks.


jjaki has never pressured scarlett all game, cant allow that

Terrans should copy Taeja more.
StutteR
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1903 Posts
December 06 2013 23:05 GMT
#2874
On December 07 2013 08:04 Hider wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good


Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens.

Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary...


But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo.


Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least.

But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles.
Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level


Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well.

There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well.


I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression.

But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory.

Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant. Mutalisks were only buffed due to the introduciton of the Widow Mine. Now that they been nerfed, it also makes sense to nerf Mutalisks.



Jjakji was way ahead then he lost his third.
`~` | effOrt Movie sKyHigh forever & SEn
StarVe
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany13591 Posts
December 06 2013 23:05 GMT
#2875
On December 07 2013 08:05 stuchiu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 08:04 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good


Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens.

Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary...


But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo.


Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least.

But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles.
Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level


Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well.

There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well.


I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression.

But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory.

Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant.


If you can't beat it then don't. The answer is to go back to WoL style 3 base all-in pushes.

In every matchup! CreatorPrime will win a GSL.
Darkhorse
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States23455 Posts
December 06 2013 23:05 GMT
#2876
USA got Germany and Portugal in their World Cup draw we are le fucked
WriterRecently Necro'd (?)
ZenithM
Profile Joined February 2011
France15952 Posts
December 06 2013 23:06 GMT
#2877
On December 07 2013 07:59 StarVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 07:58 JustPassingBy wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:57 StarVe wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:53 Zealously wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Scarlett!

On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix.


Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments.


I don't think we can argue against Scarlett currently being better and performing better than Vortix though

She hasn't advanced yet while VortiX is in the next round. Techincally VortiX is better currently. ;D


    (1652) Scarlett  0-0  VortiX (1690)      
---------------------------------------------
2.63% 5-0 0-5 3.69%
6.80% 5-1 1-5 8.92%
10.54% 5-2 2-5 12.92%
12.71% 5-3 3-5 14.57%
13.15% 5-4 4-5 14.07%
---------------------------------------------
45.82% 54.18%

Median outcome: Scarlett 4-5 VortiX

We only accept Bo69s.

Eh, in general I don't really care who is better or not, I just think lots of people don't rate VortiX appropriately because they dislike him for whatever reason. Maybe because he did well in late WoL while not being Scarlett.

Tasteless hailed him as the Best Broodlord Pusher in the Game, and I trust Tasteless. Unfortunately the title is less cool than it sounds.
Xoronius
Profile Joined July 2011
Germany6362 Posts
December 06 2013 23:06 GMT
#2878
On December 07 2013 07:57 Zealously wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 07:54 Xoronius wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:53 Zealously wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Scarlett!

On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix.


Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments.


I don't think we can argue against Scarlett currently being better and performing better than Vortix though

Currently? No, certainly not. Does´nt change my point, though.


It does, actually. If one player is currently good and the other isn't (Scarlett/Vortix), one of two players (MMA/jjakji) of roughly equal skill shouldn't be losing to the inferior player. I disagree that losing to Vortix is "embarrassing" since the guy is pretty good still, but I can see the reasoning.

Skill does not equal shape though. Vortix has proven, that he has the neccessary skill to compete at a top level. Keep in mind, between him and Scarlett were only 300 WCS points and he made Season 3 finals and took maps against both his opponents there, so it´s not like there would be a huge difference between them. If you combine that with his accomplishments in the past, who are arguably bigger than Scarletts, the first statement just becomes offensive towards Vortix. I mean, noone would say, that is embarrassing to lose to Mvp, although he is far away from his top shape, because everyone knows, that his skill is there. Denying Vortix the same treatment and not acknowledging his skill (not to the same extend as Mvp ofc. but you get the idea) is´nt really fair in my eyes.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
December 06 2013 23:06 GMT
#2879
On December 07 2013 08:05 StarVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 08:05 stuchiu wrote:
On December 07 2013 08:04 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good


Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens.

Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary...


But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo.


Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least.

But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles.
Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level


Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well.

There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well.


I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression.

But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory.

Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant.


If you can't beat it then don't. The answer is to go back to WoL style 3 base all-in pushes.

In every matchup! CreatorPrime will win a GSL.


creator still plays sc2? since gom doesn't show code A I haven't seen him play a single game in like 6 months
Squat
Profile Joined September 2013
Sweden7978 Posts
December 06 2013 23:06 GMT
#2880
On December 07 2013 08:03 StarVe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2013 08:00 Squat wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:57 StarVe wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:53 Zealously wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:
On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Scarlett!

On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix.


Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments.


I don't think we can argue against Scarlett currently being better and performing better than Vortix though

She hasn't advanced yet while VortiX is in the next round. Techincally VortiX is better currently. ;D

I cannot express with words how sick I am of these debates.

Haha, come on, you didn't really take this seriously.

I thought only Germans were supposed to do that.

They just become so obnoxious and stupid after a while. "OMG player x placed 47th in some tourney 13 years ago so according to this magic graph he will beat your player by 167-54 if they ever play!"

Want to know who the best players are? Watch the fucking games and see how they do vs elite opponents on a consistent basis. There, done.
"Digital. They have digital. What is digital?" - Donald J Trump
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