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On December 07 2013 08:05 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:04 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens. Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary... But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo. Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least. But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles. Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well. There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well. I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression. But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory. Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant. If you can't beat it then don't. The answer is to go back to WoL style 3 base all-in pushes.
But she seems to make it work against Bomber aswell, mr 3 base parade all in. Scarlett ZvT is freaking scary
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On December 07 2013 08:01 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 07:59 TheDougler wrote:
What's up with the lighting? Just tuned into the stream. This is Plan D. A, B and C failed.
just burst out loud with laughter, hope it doesnt wake up my wife 
good one mate 
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On December 07 2013 08:05 Darkhoarse wrote:
USA got Germany and Portugal in their World Cup draw we are le fucked
le fucked? -.-
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On December 07 2013 08:06 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:05 StarVe wrote:On December 07 2013 08:05 stuchiu wrote:On December 07 2013 08:04 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens. Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary... But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo. Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least. But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles. Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well. There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well. I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression. But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory. Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant. If you can't beat it then don't. The answer is to go back to WoL style 3 base all-in pushes. In every matchup! CreatorPrime will win a GSL. creator still plays sc2? since gom doesn't show code A I haven't seen him play a single game in like 6 months
He has been streaming some lately. Not a lot though. Will probably see more of him in pro league when it starts in a few weeks!
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On December 07 2013 08:03 Fjodorov wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 07:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Congrats to Scarlett! On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix. Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments. It's not a double standard. There are exactly two foreigners who are considered to be on par with mid/ top Koreans, and they're Scarlett and Naniwa. Vortix isn't ever even in the conversation lol which is why it's embarrassing for MMA to lose to him. You are right about Scarlett and Naniwa being the best foreigners but how does that make it embarrassing for MMA to lose to Vortix? He is still good, and like many foreigners not very consistent but has a high top level but a low worst level, also he isnt a foreign terran. Vortix having a good day and playing good, which he did, MMA not being in his best shape, is not like Bhutan beating Spain in football like you make it sound lol.
Well MMA was apparently 5-0 against Vortix before today,
+ Show Spoiler +
Vortix moving on over MMA is a pretty big upset. Losing to Scarlett is something that happens all the time nowadays.
And regardless, being happy that Scarlett moved on and being sad that MMA didn't are completely independent of each other. It's not like you necessarily have to cheer for both Scarlett and Vortix at all times lol. There's no double standard.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On December 07 2013 08:06 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:05 StarVe wrote:On December 07 2013 08:05 stuchiu wrote:On December 07 2013 08:04 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens. Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary... But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo. Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least. But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles. Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well. There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well. I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression. But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory. Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant. If you can't beat it then don't. The answer is to go back to WoL style 3 base all-in pushes. In every matchup! CreatorPrime will win a GSL. creator still plays sc2? since gom doesn't show code A I haven't seen him play a single game in like 6 months
Grinding his own revolution in SC2 HotS and will arise in the very last 3months as the best toss to only have to redo it all over again for LotV.
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On December 07 2013 08:06 Xoronius wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 07:57 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 07:54 Xoronius wrote:On December 07 2013 07:53 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Congrats to Scarlett! On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix. Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments. I don't think we can argue against Scarlett currently being better and performing better than Vortix though Currently? No, certainly not. Does´nt change my point, though. It does, actually. If one player is currently good and the other isn't (Scarlett/Vortix), one of two players (MMA/jjakji) of roughly equal skill shouldn't be losing to the inferior player. I disagree that losing to Vortix is "embarrassing" since the guy is pretty good still, but I can see the reasoning. Skill does not equal shape though. Vortix has proven, that he has the neccessary skill to compete at a top level. Keep in mind, between him and Scarlett were only 300 WCS points and he made Season 3 finals and took maps against both his opponents there, so it´s not like there would be a huge difference between them. If you combine that with his accomplishments in the past, who are arguably bigger than Scarletts, the first statement just becomes offensive towards Vortix. I mean, noone would say, that is embarrassing to lose to Mvp, although he is far away from his top shape, because everyone knows, that his skill is there. Denying Vortix the same treatment and not acknowledging his skill (not to the same extend as Mvp ofc. but you get the idea) is´nt really fair in my eyes.
I don't think anyone actually thinks Vortix is a bad player lol. It's just he hasn't beaten top Korean terrans in the past few weeks the way Scarlett has. So Vortix > MMA is more of an upset than Scarlett > Jjakji.
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On December 07 2013 08:06 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:05 StarVe wrote:On December 07 2013 08:05 stuchiu wrote:On December 07 2013 08:04 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens. Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary... But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo. Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least. But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles. Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well. There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well. I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression. But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory. Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant. If you can't beat it then don't. The answer is to go back to WoL style 3 base all-in pushes. In every matchup! CreatorPrime will win a GSL. creator still plays sc2? since gom doesn't show code A I haven't seen him play a single game in like 6 months
I don't know, I haven't watched much in the last couple of months. But I'm sure he's been practicing those 3 base all-ins all the time just waiting until they are back in the meta.
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On December 07 2013 08:05 Darkhoarse wrote:
USA got Germany and Portugal in their World Cup draw we are le fucked
tbh, usa would be fucked in almost every possible group set up
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On December 07 2013 08:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:03 Fjodorov wrote:On December 07 2013 07:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Congrats to Scarlett! On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix. Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments. It's not a double standard. There are exactly two foreigners who are considered to be on par with mid/ top Koreans, and they're Scarlett and Naniwa. Vortix isn't ever even in the conversation lol which is why it's embarrassing for MMA to lose to him. You are right about Scarlett and Naniwa being the best foreigners but how does that make it embarrassing for MMA to lose to Vortix? He is still good, and like many foreigners not very consistent but has a high top level but a low worst level, also he isnt a foreign terran. Vortix having a good day and playing good, which he did, MMA not being in his best shape, is not like Bhutan beating Spain in football like you make it sound lol. Well MMA was apparently 5-0 against Vortix before today, + Show Spoiler + Vortix moving on over MMA is a pretty big upset. Losing to Scarlett is something that happens all the time nowadays. And regardless, being happy that Scarlett moved on and being sad that MMA didn't are completely independent of each other. It's not like you necessarily have to cheer for both Scarlett and Vortix at all times lol. There's no double standard.
Agreed, I cheer for Scarlett and not Vortix because Vortix is the best BL pusher in the world and I hate BL's.
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On December 07 2013 08:05 StutteR wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:04 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 08:02 Swisslink wrote:On December 07 2013 07:57 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 07:54 Swisslink wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 TheDwf wrote:On December 07 2013 07:51 Hider wrote:On December 07 2013 07:49 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
This make muta -> kill orbital -> burrow baneling combobreaker is pretty good Yeh, I think she may have "revoulutiozed" TvZ. At least, I have a hard time seeing terran have any chance vs this unless they get some Ravens. Abusing mass mutas is nothing new, nor revolutionary... But the way he abuses the Baneling landmines all the time to secure the path for the Mutalisks to go back seems REALLY strong. On the other side I think Jjakji should just have gone for the kill instead of moving back and forth all the time. Pretty bad idea against someone like Scarlett imo. Well going for the kill here would be equal to base trade. I don't see how terran can ever win basetrade vs burrowed banelings + mass Muta....... Not without Ravens at least. But I think mixing in Ravens is also just inefficient as they kinda just suck vs muta/bling in straight up battles. Mutalisks will probably get nerfed in one of the coming patches, but untill then terrans will just have to learn to use Raven-mech w/ a very turtle style. I don't believe the offensive bio+mine style really has any long-term viability on the highest level Lets not exaggerate the situation! It's not like the Terrans just lose against Zerg all the time - there are a few Zerg who do REALLY well right now (As long as they don't meet Taeja or someone like that :-P ) but there are more than enough Terrans who still win against these Zerg as well. There might be a problem once the Zerg is ahead and therefore able to focus on Mutalisks alone - but the matchup has the same problem if it's the other way round. If the Zerg is behind... it snowballs out of control rather fast as well. I don't think Scarlett was ahead that game? I remember her being 20 supply down at some point before she went into heavy aggression. But my point is here that I don't think terran has any real chance against that style with their current playstyle. So they need to adapt in some way (I suggested one way in a previous post), but ofc that style only "works" in theory. Regardless, I think Mutalisks are too dominant. Mutalisks were only buffed due to the introduciton of the Widow Mine. Now that they been nerfed, it also makes sense to nerf Mutalisks. Jjakji was way ahead then he lost his third.
- Yep, and Jjakji really didn't react appropriately imo. I've never seen a Terran his bases so easily as Jjakji did. And afterwards he completely lost control over the game and... the game was basically over :-?
- Nerfing Mutalisks is risky... you know... Medivacs are pretty damn fast nowadays :-/
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United States23455 Posts
On December 07 2013 08:07 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:05 Darkhoarse wrote:
USA got Germany and Portugal in their World Cup draw we are le fucked le fucked? -.-
Le means extra in French I'm 100% sure
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On December 07 2013 08:06 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:03 StarVe wrote:On December 07 2013 08:00 Squat wrote:On December 07 2013 07:57 StarVe wrote:On December 07 2013 07:53 Zealously wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Congrats to Scarlett! On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix. Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments. I don't think we can argue against Scarlett currently being better and performing better than Vortix though She hasn't advanced yet while VortiX is in the next round. Techincally VortiX is better currently. ;D I cannot express with words how sick I am of these debates. Haha, come on, you didn't really take this seriously. I thought only Germans were supposed to do that. They just become so obnoxious and stupid after a while. "OMG player x placed 47th in some tourney 13 years ago so according to this magic graph he will beat your player by 167-54 if they ever play!" Want to know who the best players are? Watch the fucking games and see how they do vs elite opponents on a consistent basis. There, done.
Look we had this nice discussion with everyone making up the facts he needs to support his cause and being completly biased for his favourite player, now you come in here with your logic.
You ruin our day.
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On December 07 2013 08:02 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:00 JustPassingBy wrote:On December 07 2013 07:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Congrats to Scarlett! On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix. Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments. It's not a double standard. There are exactly two foreigners who are considered to be on par with mid/ top Koreans, and they're Scarlett and Naniwa. Vortix isn't ever even in the conversation lol which is why it's embarrassing for MMA to lose to him. Scarlett participates in many more tournaments than Vortix, can't blame Vortix's skills for her being more prominent representing the foreigners in the international scene. Right, but cheering for one player and not cheering for a second player doesn't create a "double standart" [sic].
Dude, you can cheer for whoever you want; who am I to tell you who to cheer for. I´m just saying, that you can easily cheer for Scarlett, without implying insults towards Vortix, when he is on the same skill level.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
Okay fuck this I've been up for too long I'm going to sleep
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On December 07 2013 08:07 sninja wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:01 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On December 07 2013 07:59 TheDougler wrote:
What's up with the lighting? Just tuned into the stream. This is Plan D. A, B and C failed. just burst out loud with laughter, hope it doesnt wake up my wife good one mate
Glad you appreciate it!
+ Show Spoiler +, though technically it was stated like this by Khaldor on stream so it's not my joke
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United States23455 Posts
On December 07 2013 08:10 Zealously wrote:
Okay fuck this I've been up for too long I'm going to sleep
Don't leave pls
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On December 07 2013 08:08 Tanzklaue wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:05 Darkhoarse wrote:
USA got Germany and Portugal in their World Cup draw we are le fucked tbh, usa would be fucked in almost every possible group set up
On paper we're always fucked but sometimes we get out of the group stage anyway. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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On December 07 2013 08:08 Tanzklaue wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:05 Darkhoarse wrote:
USA got Germany and Portugal in their World Cup draw we are le fucked tbh, usa would be fucked in almost every possible group set up
Well to be fair most of them have yet to figure out why the ball is actually shaped like a sphere and why you are not allowed to pick it up with your hands.
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On December 07 2013 08:08 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2013 08:03 Fjodorov wrote:On December 07 2013 07:58 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On December 07 2013 07:52 Xoronius wrote:On December 07 2013 07:50 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Congrats to Scarlett! On December 07 2013 07:32 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Embarrassing for MMA. Losing a series to Vortix. Oh, those double standarts. Especially, since Vortix has slightly more accomplishments. It's not a double standard. There are exactly two foreigners who are considered to be on par with mid/ top Koreans, and they're Scarlett and Naniwa. Vortix isn't ever even in the conversation lol which is why it's embarrassing for MMA to lose to him. You are right about Scarlett and Naniwa being the best foreigners but how does that make it embarrassing for MMA to lose to Vortix? He is still good, and like many foreigners not very consistent but has a high top level but a low worst level, also he isnt a foreign terran. Vortix having a good day and playing good, which he did, MMA not being in his best shape, is not like Bhutan beating Spain in football like you make it sound lol. Well MMA was apparently 5-0 against Vortix before today, + Show Spoiler + Vortix moving on over MMA is a pretty big upset. Losing to Scarlett is something that happens all the time nowadays. And regardless, being happy that Scarlett moved on and being sad that MMA didn't are completely independent of each other. It's not like you necessarily have to cheer for both Scarlett and Vortix at all times lol. There's no double standard.
Yeah ofc you can cheer for scarlett and MMA Im just thought "embarrassing" was a bit strong objectively speaking, even if MMA himself might feel that way and top koreans in general maybe, dunno.
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EPT
