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On September 10 2013 20:50 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 20:48 double1185 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 liberate71 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games.
DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
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4713 Posts
On September 10 2013 20:59 double1185 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 20:50 Wildmoon wrote:On September 10 2013 20:48 double1185 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 liberate71 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games. DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
Hyvaa is really bad at spending his money actually. If you look at DRG vs Innovation again you'll notice DRG keeps his money low all game long, if you watch Hyvaa, you can see he was supply blocked and was banking several times during the game.
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On September 10 2013 20:59 double1185 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 20:50 Wildmoon wrote:On September 10 2013 20:48 double1185 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 liberate71 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games. DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
Hyvaa's baneling and muta control was far worse then drgs. Drg would have straight up won the game when innovation was pushing into his third. The advantage hyvaa got from an unscouted base as well as having 88 drones shouldn't be discounted.
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
Dont know why people are mad the game was amazing and bith played amazing and Hyvaa nearly had it!
Just abit more polish and he wouldve done it. Showing zergs that it is possible
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Canada16217 Posts
On September 10 2013 20:59 double1185 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 20:50 Wildmoon wrote:On September 10 2013 20:48 double1185 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 liberate71 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games. DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
One thing hyvaa messed up was not sniping medivacs, drg was so much more active with his mutas, 2 extras ebays aren't a huge deal,his upgrades were slightly behind(the 2-2 that is) hyvaa's not by much, drg had the better engages throughout the series more so then hyvaa did. This was just 1 game though.
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On September 10 2013 20:59 double1185 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 20:50 Wildmoon wrote:On September 10 2013 20:48 double1185 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 liberate71 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games. DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
It simply doesn't work when you simplifiy the coparision into zerg v terran when in fact there are skills of players involved in it. You could see that DRG was equal with Innovation in skill in those games. You couldn't say the same about Hyvaa.
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gotta say innovation doesnt look as sharp lately, just this game again 4 ebays, armory was almost a minute late, had 3 rax not hotkeyed for a long time, unit control was good but not amazing, will be interesting how his play develops in the upcoming weeks in his new practice environment
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On September 10 2013 21:06 Tsubbi wrote:
gotta say innovation doesnt look as sharp lately, just this game again 4 ebays, armory was almost a minute late, had 3 rax not hotkeyed for a long time, unit control was good but not amazing, will be interesting how his play develops in the upcoming weeks in his new practice environment
that loss vs DRG must have shook his confidence. he lost a series not to random luck or mistakes, but simply because DRG outclassed him heavily with raw skill.
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On September 10 2013 21:06 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 20:59 double1185 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:50 Wildmoon wrote:On September 10 2013 20:48 double1185 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 liberate71 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games. DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min It simply doesn't work when you simplifiy the coparision into zerg v terran when in fact there are skills of players involved in it. You could see that DRG was equal with Innovation in skill in those games. You couldn't say the same about Hyvaa.
Drg looked comfortably better lol
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4713 Posts
On September 10 2013 21:06 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 20:59 double1185 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:50 Wildmoon wrote:On September 10 2013 20:48 double1185 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 liberate71 wrote:On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games. DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min It simply doesn't work when you simplifiy the coparision into zerg v terran when in fact there are skills of players involved in it. You could see that DRG was equal with Innovation in skill in those games. You couldn't say the same about Hyvaa.
DRG actually did look a lot better in every measurable way. His creep spread was on point all game, he kept his money low all game (ergo he must have been hitting his injects sharply all game), he took better engagements, he had better unit retention, his banelings where being split and manually detonated, doing on average more damage, he didn't take any giant mine hits and few large ones, his muta control was better, better retention, better sniping of medivacs and mines, his timings where crisper, he knew when to expand, he knew when Innovation would try to expand and countered beautifully.
I don't mean to shit on Hyvaa he is a fantastic player in his own right, but DRG was simply on another level in that series.
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On September 10 2013 21:02 GumBa wrote:
Dont know why people are mad the game was amazing and bith played amazing and Hyvaa nearly had it!
Just abit more polish and he wouldve done it. Showing zergs that it is possible
Word. I think recent games from Scarlett, DRG and now Hyvaa just show us that zergs are getting there and the match up needs more time. I think balance wise it will be ok. Now people, questioning the game design and a lack of variety, do have a point I guess. But I'm a fan of games where it's just about perfect execution, even if you always know what will happen. That's how wc3 was too and then there will always be some cheeses in a boX.
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On September 10 2013 21:17 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 21:02 GumBa wrote:
Dont know why people are mad the game was amazing and bith played amazing and Hyvaa nearly had it!
Just abit more polish and he wouldve done it. Showing zergs that it is possible Word. I think recent games from Scarlett, DRG and now Hyvaa just show us that zergs are getting there and the match up needs more time. I think balance wise it will be ok. Now people, questioning the game design and a lack of variety, do have a point I guess. But I'm a fan of games where it's just about perfect execution, even if you always know what will happen. That's how wc3 was too and then there will always be some cheeses in a boX.
To a certain extent it was how broodwar was aswell, though in broodwar there was still more variety. Imagine if once ultralisks came out terrans had to transition to unit x (not a marauder), and consequently zergs had to transition to unit y in order for it to even up. Would really make it more interesting.
That was one of the problems I had with ghost snipe, it just became so anti climatic that a zerg could transition from muta/ling/bling to ultras or broodlords or something and then just watch those units become useless. Though I guess ghosts are t3, but you get the picture. Watching leenock lose vs jjakji in seconds after getting broodlords out to ghost snipe was both amazing and sad.
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Can't watch set 6 on Gom site it's not working
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On September 10 2013 21:22 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 21:17 Musicus wrote:On September 10 2013 21:02 GumBa wrote:
Dont know why people are mad the game was amazing and bith played amazing and Hyvaa nearly had it!
Just abit more polish and he wouldve done it. Showing zergs that it is possible Word. I think recent games from Scarlett, DRG and now Hyvaa just show us that zergs are getting there and the match up needs more time. I think balance wise it will be ok. Now people, questioning the game design and a lack of variety, do have a point I guess. But I'm a fan of games where it's just about perfect execution, even if you always know what will happen. That's how wc3 was too and then there will always be some cheeses in a boX. To a certain extent it was how broodwar was aswell, though in broodwar there was still more variety. Imagine if once ultralisks came out terrans had to transition to unit x (not a marauder), and consequently zergs had to transition to unit y in order for it to even up. Would really make it more interesting. That was one of the problems I had with ghost snipe, it just became so anti climatic that a zerg could transition from muta/ling/bling to ultras or broodlords or something and then just watch those units become useless. Though I guess ghosts are t3, but you get the picture. Watching leenock lose vs jjakji in seconds after getting broodlords out to ghost snipe was both amazing and sad.
Yeah I won't disagree. More unit transitions (from terran) would of course make it even better. But still, TvZ already delivers amazing games.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
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axiomacer is such an incredibly fun team to cheer for
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On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote:
So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On September 10 2013 21:36 BlackCompany wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote:
So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game? Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
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On September 10 2013 21:38 lolfail9001 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2013 21:36 BlackCompany wrote:On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote:
So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game? Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again) Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
Those are some strong words
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I for one welcome our new Terran overlords. 
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EPT
