★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
22 total votes
Your vote: Recommend MMA vs Trap?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Set 2?
★★★★- Highly recommended game (23)
64%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (7)
19%
★★★- Good game (4)
11%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
3%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
3%
36 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 2?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Set 3?
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (9)
45%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (8)
40%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
10%
★★★- Good game (1)
5%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
20 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 3?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Set 4?
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (11)
35%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (9)
29%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (7)
23%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
6%
★★★- Good game (2)
6%
31 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 4?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
14%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 5?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Set 6?
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (105)
89%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (8)
7%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (3)
3%
★★★- Good game (2)
2%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
118 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 6?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Set 7?
★★★- Good game (17)
41%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (9)
22%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (6)
15%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5)
12%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (4)
10%
41 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 7?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
Khaldor and Wolf were talking about round, juicy melons during their latest adventures in Fruitland, and I say you just gotta give them a nice big squeeze.
On September 10 2013 02:54 lolfail9001 wrote: Last is kinda out of topic in banner, especially considering we never ever got update on his status (retired, teamless, whatever?)
On September 10 2013 02:54 lolfail9001 wrote: Last is kinda out of topic in banner, especially considering we never ever got update on his status (retired, teamless, whatever?)
MMA wants to kill Innovation´s old team to assert his dominance. Then he loses, Inno takes care of business and everyone and his cat is scared. Keep giving him money, or you could be next!
On September 10 2013 09:49 TotalBiscuit wrote: We can confirm that our entire roster has been practicing nothing but deadly Fruitland strategies this week. Soul is doomed.
On September 10 2013 16:01 NarutO wrote: Can someone explain the lemon joke? Proxy-stuff? :x
If you destroy the lemons on fruitland you can harvest the remains for like 500 minerals or something. Wolf and Khaldor were going ballistic because there were so many chances for it to happen but neither Curious nor Patience decided to do it.
On September 10 2013 16:01 NarutO wrote: Can someone explain the lemon joke? Proxy-stuff? :x
If you destroy the lemons on fruitland you can harvest the remains for like 500 minerals or something. Wolf and Khaldor were going ballistic because there were so many chances for it to happen but neither Curious nor Patience decided to do it.
Or if you mean my references, they were all from Lemongrab, a character from Adventure Time.
On September 10 2013 16:01 NarutO wrote: Can someone explain the lemon joke? Proxy-stuff? :x
If you destroy the lemons on fruitland you can harvest the remains for like 500 minerals or something. Wolf and Khaldor were going ballistic because there were so many chances for it to happen but neither Curious nor Patience decided to do it.
Or if you mean my references, they were all from Lemongrab, a character from Adventure Time.
Because, you know, grab those lemons or something
What the actual :D pretty interesting! Thanks (both)
On September 10 2013 18:01 KristofferAG wrote: I've never seen any of the BW vets call it sctoo. They call it "THAT INFERIOR SHITTY GAME" or something, I'm not too sure :3
I have to say this is also the first time I see sctoo used that I can remember haha.
On September 10 2013 18:21 Disarmed wrote: i think that map is a little bit ridiculous.
this is supposed to be a space-war dammit.
Yea and its on Planet Fruit in the solarsytem Fruits and the map is in Fruitlands its near to Fruitsea and Fruitmountain if you head straight South-Fruit-West. Know your universes dude!
a green player on Fruitland. Just imagine we would still have the old extremely low GomTV bitrate, you wouldn't be able to tell how many units that player actually has :D
On September 10 2013 18:21 Disarmed wrote: i think that map is a little bit ridiculous.
this is supposed to be a space-war dammit.
Yea and its on Planet Fruit in the solarsytem Fruits and the map is in Fruitlands its near to Fruitsea and Fruitmountain if you head straight South-Fruit-West. Know your universes dude!
On September 10 2013 18:21 Disarmed wrote: i think that map is a little bit ridiculous.
this is supposed to be a space-war dammit.
Yea and its on Planet Fruit in the solarsytem Fruits and the map is in Fruitlands its near to Fruitsea and Fruitmountain if you head straight South-Fruit-West. Know your universes dude!
that is YOUR universe though
WHAAAT`? I can give you the coordinates dude ... !
On September 10 2013 18:26 Kasaraki wrote: The funny thing is that even ignoring the name of Fruitdealer, taking the lemons is exactly what he'd have done playstyle-wise.
yes 8^)
an aside: in British English we have the excellent word "fruiterer", and despite my undying love for Fruitdealer and all he achieved, every time I hear his name part of me wishes that the first person to translate his handle had known that.
Super-glad he didn't end up as "greengrocer" though!
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
22 total votes
Your vote: Recommend MMA vs Trap?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
14%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
22 total votes
Your vote: Recommend MMA vs Trap?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
3%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (1)
3%
36 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 2?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
really awful from Dear to take so much damage from drops when he had templar tech D: would have rolled that game if he paid attention like most protoss do :3
I really want him to get the AK but on the other hand Innovation is the only one on my team. There is a conflict in interest here. Oh well, as long as hyvaa lose.
On September 10 2013 19:06 Dark.Carnival wrote: really awful from Dear to take so much damage from drops when he had templar tech D: would have rolled that game if he paid attention like most protoss do :3
Unfortunately, taking damage once is enough to snowball, his lapse in concentration for the first drop was his fault, but the rest was most likely MMA's momentum and control. And despite that he still managed to hold on for so long.
I will never forget MMA and Boxer coming over to MLG in 2011 and murdering everyone. I was a fan then and I'm a fan now. It's so fucking good to see him back.
Terrans QQing about Protoss out there? Sit down, shut up and fucking learn how it's down.
On September 10 2013 19:07 SmoKim wrote: MMA to gosu for SCV pull
Terran destruction
This! I am just happy he isn't SCV pulling every game. He is actually good! <3
Sorry to burst your bubble but, MMA isn't SCV pulling because his opponents are going for templar based builds, the SCV pull works better against colossus based compositions. Multi-tasking works better against templar based compositions, since their defense relies on them paying attention to key locations and hitting feedbacks and storms.
On September 10 2013 19:11 Xaeldaren wrote: I will never forget MMA and Boxer coming over to MLG in 2011 and murdering everyone. I was a fan then and I'm a fan now. It's so fucking good to see him back.
Terrans QQing about Protoss out there? Sit down, shut up and fucking learn how it's down.
Pray Protoss doesn't pay attention to his defensive Templars when you drop him?
On September 10 2013 19:07 Koshi wrote: MMA and DRG are back.
The standard for former legendary players " coming back " is pretty low nowdays ;s
Well, DRG came back with a bang. like BOOOOOMMMMM
Is passing the ro32 really a comeback? I mean I know he beat Innovation in TvZ but It's not like he's won or even placed decently yet.
i don't think placing maters but the skill the players show :p
and what if he loses in the ro16? do we call it a fluke?
well i don't think it's a comeback fully yet for drg because he hasn't shown the best of play in zvz/zvp he still has to prove himself in those matchups at least.
On September 10 2013 19:06 Dark.Carnival wrote: really awful from Dear to take so much damage from drops when he had templar tech D: would have rolled that game if he paid attention like most protoss do :3
Unfortunately, taking damage once is enough to snowball, his lapse in concentration for the first drop was his fault, but the rest was most likely MMA's momentum and control. And despite that he still managed to hold on for so long.
I think it's pretty insulting to MMA to try and diminish his win and turn it into some thinly veiled balance whine. MMA played awesome. Dear is a great player, but mistakes were forced out of him by an insane level of mult-tasking and control. It's hard to "pay attention" when a world class player is shitting on you from 5 different directions.
On September 10 2013 19:06 Dark.Carnival wrote: really awful from Dear to take so much damage from drops when he had templar tech D: would have rolled that game if he paid attention like most protoss do :3
Unfortunately, taking damage once is enough to snowball, his lapse in concentration for the first drop was his fault, but the rest was most likely MMA's momentum and control. And despite that he still managed to hold on for so long.
I think it's pretty insulting to MMA to try and diminish his win and turn it into some thinly veiled balance whine. MMA played awesome. Dear is a great player, but mistakes were forced out of him by an insane level of mult-tasking and control. It's hard to "pay attention" when a world class player is shitting on you from 5 different directions.
But this is a LR thread. Can't go 2 pages without atleast some balance whine :3
MMA looks so confident today, much different from what he was in season2. It is a little bit sad that both MMA and DRG have their come back in the winter of Korean scene
On September 10 2013 19:06 Dark.Carnival wrote: really awful from Dear to take so much damage from drops when he had templar tech D: would have rolled that game if he paid attention like most protoss do :3
Unfortunately, taking damage once is enough to snowball, his lapse in concentration for the first drop was his fault, but the rest was most likely MMA's momentum and control. And despite that he still managed to hold on for so long.
I think it's pretty insulting to MMA to try and diminish his win and turn it into some thinly veiled balance whine. MMA played awesome. Dear is a great player, but mistakes were forced out of him by an insane level of mult-tasking and control. It's hard to "pay attention" when a world class player is shitting on you from 5 different directions.
2 actually, with the second one being the threat of his army hitting Dear's third if he moves away, which he doesn't have to do if he uses Feedback on the Medivacs in his main. Stop exaggerating.
I wasn't actually balance whining, I just said that that its possible to snowball an advantage if you've done some critical damage in the first attack (like getting 3 critical tech structures in one drop and not losing most of the drop), I think objectively that is applicable in all MUs including mirrors.
Anyway, really curious about the new guy, I've never seen him play before and I'm hoping SouL have a good reason to send him out instead of say, Hyvaa.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (9)
45%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (8)
40%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
10%
★★★- Good game (1)
5%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0)
0%
20 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 3?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
On September 10 2013 19:28 Musicus wrote: I chose Ryung for my FGSTL team, I wonder if he will ever get to play with Inno and MMA..., well still happy.
Haha same was thinking on trading him for MMA this week but didn't bother..
6 pool? 9 pool? 10 pool? 10 pool speedling? 10 pool baneling? speedling/bane allin? roach/ling? roach/bane? speedbane/speedroach? Or least plausible of them all, a macro game?
Soul definitely disappointing today, could be from the team situation or being new to GSTL but they are definitely under performing D:
Youngjoo losing isn't a surprise but it was an odd choice when you're doing 0-2, would have been better to send him second if you want him to get experience playing. Mostly disappointed in Trap/Dear who have really good PvT and should never lose to any Axiom-Acer terrans except Innovation :3
On September 10 2013 19:30 NovaMB wrote: 6 pool? 9 pool? 10 pool? 10 pool speedling? 10 pool baneling? speed/bane allin? roach/ling? roach/bane? speedbane/speedraoch? Or least plausible of them all, a macro game?
Hyvaa should go full Symbol on MMA and hope no tanks are made ever
On September 10 2013 19:30 NovaMB wrote: 6 pool? 9 pool? 10 pool? 10 pool speedling? 10 pool baneling? speed/bane allin? roach/ling? roach/bane? speedbane/speedraoch? Or least plausible of them all, a macro game?
On September 10 2013 19:30 NovaMB wrote: 6 pool? 9 pool? 10 pool? 10 pool speedling? 10 pool baneling? speed/bane allin? roach/ling? roach/bane? speedbane/speedraoch? Or least plausible of them all, a macro game?
On September 10 2013 19:29 KristofferAG wrote: Kinda want hyvaa to win just to see the tears.
INnoVation realising he made a mistake, rips off his acer shirt, shows a body a la Nada, flipps over the Axiom-Acer bench and joins Soul. Soul wins GSTL, gets Coca Cola as sponsor. Then Innovation gets a nosejob and becomes the most handsome man in the world.
On September 10 2013 19:30 NovaMB wrote: 6 pool? 9 pool? 10 pool? 10 pool speedling? 10 pool baneling? speed/bane allin? roach/ling? roach/bane? speedbane/speedraoch? Or least plausible of them all, a macro game?
On September 10 2013 19:30 NovaMB wrote: 6 pool? 9 pool? 10 pool? 10 pool speedling? 10 pool baneling? speed/bane allin? roach/ling? roach/bane? speedbane/speedraoch? Or least plausible of them all, a macro game?
On September 10 2013 19:26 Dodgin wrote: MMA style works really well against lower skill players
wow what? how are trap and dear lower skill players, wtf
I am clearly talking about the game we just watched...
not clear at all actually, you just generalized everything with one sentence
It's a general statement and It's true, nowhere does it imply dear and trap are bad players. It should be clear to everyone after watching youngjoo die to the first multipronged attack.
On September 10 2013 19:29 KristofferAG wrote: Kinda want hyvaa to win just to see the tears.
INnoVation realising he made a mistake, rips off his acer shirt, shows a body a la Nada, flipps over the Axiom-Acer bench and joins Soul. Soul wins GSTL, gets Coca Cola as sponsor. Then Innovation gets a nosejob and becomes the most handsome man in the world.
Innovation just needs a mustache to be the most recognized face in the world.
On September 10 2013 19:26 Dodgin wrote: MMA style works really well against lower skill players
wow what? how are trap and dear lower skill players, wtf
I am clearly talking about the game we just watched...
not clear at all actually, you just generalized everything with one sentence
It's a general statement and It's true, nowhere does it imply dear and trap are bad players. It should be clear to everyone after watching youngjoo die to the first multipronged attack.
it also implys that good players wouldn't lose to "mma style" but trap and dear lost as well, so ye it pretty much says that dear and trap are "lower skill players"
On September 10 2013 19:26 Dodgin wrote: MMA style works really well against lower skill players
wow what? how are trap and dear lower skill players, wtf
I am clearly talking about the game we just watched...
not clear at all actually, you just generalized everything with one sentence
It's a general statement and It's true, nowhere does it imply dear and trap are bad players. It should be clear to everyone after watching youngjoo die to the first multipronged attack.
it also implys that good players wouldn't lose to "mma style" but trap and dear lost as well, so ye it pretty much says that dear and trap are "lower skill players"
I think you guys are freaking out too much. it was one statement.
Im getting kinda pissed when people saying shit like " wow, when mma became so good?" and "actually mma is good wtf". He was good since the beginning of sc2, and he is 2nd most succesful player in sc2. I may be fanboying too much, cant help myself)
On September 10 2013 19:26 Dodgin wrote: MMA style works really well against lower skill players
wow what? how are trap and dear lower skill players, wtf
I am clearly talking about the game we just watched...
not clear at all actually, you just generalized everything with one sentence
It's a general statement and It's true, nowhere does it imply dear and trap are bad players. It should be clear to everyone after watching youngjoo die to the first multipronged attack.
it also implys that good players wouldn't lose to "mma style" but trap and dear lost as well, so ye it pretty much says that dear and trap are "lower skill players"
I think you guys are freaking out too much. it was one statement.
ye i might be wrong, i am not sure though, maybe i interpreted too much :D
On September 10 2013 19:26 Dodgin wrote: MMA style works really well against lower skill players
wow what? how are trap and dear lower skill players, wtf
I am clearly talking about the game we just watched...
not clear at all actually, you just generalized everything with one sentence
It's a general statement and It's true, nowhere does it imply dear and trap are bad players. It should be clear to everyone after watching youngjoo die to the first multipronged attack.
it also implys that good players wouldn't lose to "mma style" but trap and dear lost as well, so ye it pretty much says that dear and trap are "lower skill players"
On September 10 2013 19:37 MaskaGodlike wrote: Im getting kinda pissed when people saying shit like " wow, when mma became so good?" and "actually mma is good wtf". He was good since the beginning of sc2, and he is 2nd most succesful player in sc2. I may be fanboying too much, cant help myself)
your signature gives nothing away
but seriously, MMA is freaking awesome. glad to see him get some results recently.
On September 10 2013 19:37 MaskaGodlike wrote: Im getting kinda pissed when people saying shit like " wow, when mma became so good?" and "actually mma is good wtf". He was good since the beginning of sc2, and he is 2nd most succesful player in sc2. I may be fanboying too much, cant help myself)
Wait 2nd most successful? you mean... behind Mvp, NesTea and MC right? thats 2nd?
On September 10 2013 19:26 Dodgin wrote: MMA style works really well against lower skill players
wow what? how are trap and dear lower skill players, wtf
I am clearly talking about the game we just watched...
not clear at all actually, you just generalized everything with one sentence
It's a general statement and It's true, nowhere does it imply dear and trap are bad players. It should be clear to everyone after watching youngjoo die to the first multipronged attack.
it also implys that good players wouldn't lose to "mma style" but trap and dear lost as well, so ye it pretty much says that dear and trap are "lower skill players"
On September 10 2013 19:37 MaskaGodlike wrote: Im getting kinda pissed when people saying shit like " wow, when mma became so good?" and "actually mma is good wtf". He was good since the beginning of sc2, and he is 2nd most succesful player in sc2. I may be fanboying too much, cant help myself)
Wait 2nd most successful? you mean... behind Mvp, NesTea and MC right? thats 2nd?
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (7)
23%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (2)
6%
★★★- Good game (2)
6%
31 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 4?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
On September 10 2013 19:37 MaskaGodlike wrote: Im getting kinda pissed when people saying shit like " wow, when mma became so good?" and "actually mma is good wtf". He was good since the beginning of sc2, and he is 2nd most succesful player in sc2. I may be fanboying too much, cant help myself)
Wait 2nd most successful? you mean... behind Mvp, NesTea and MC right? thats 2nd?
On September 10 2013 19:44 Ghanburighan wrote: Is MMA back? No.
He kind of ruined everything from the last 3 games.. because this game was wrong and disappointing on so many levels..
I don't think he was prepared at all against hyvaa on this map and improvised the follow-up on the fly... Still a good run from him, don't take that away!
On September 10 2013 19:48 Full.tilt wrote: I haven't watched SC2 teamleagues for a while but where are the high 5's, do the players on this team all hate each other?
On September 10 2013 19:48 Full.tilt wrote: I haven't watched SC2 teamleagues for a while but where are the high 5's, do the players on this team all hate each other?
On September 10 2013 19:48 sudete wrote: Whoa pitting a toss against Hyvaa?
I'd send Alicia here too... You should see his game against Revival on Red City from SC2L. 2base Protoss that gets his 3rd denied a lot > 8base Zerg. ;o
On September 10 2013 19:48 Full.tilt wrote: I haven't watched SC2 teamleagues for a while but where are the high 5's, do the players on this team all hate each other?
I heard MMA complained about Ryung, because he used his toothbrush. Tuned out it was Crank's toothbrush, since then the atmosphere in the team sucks.
On September 10 2013 19:37 MaskaGodlike wrote: Im getting kinda pissed when people saying shit like " wow, when mma became so good?" and "actually mma is good wtf". He was good since the beginning of sc2, and he is 2nd most succesful player in sc2. I may be fanboying too much, cant help myself)
Wait 2nd most successful? you mean... behind Mvp, NesTea and MC right? thats 2nd?
On September 10 2013 19:48 Full.tilt wrote: I haven't watched SC2 teamleagues for a while but where are the high 5's, do the players on this team all hate each other?
On September 10 2013 19:37 MaskaGodlike wrote: Im getting kinda pissed when people saying shit like " wow, when mma became so good?" and "actually mma is good wtf". He was good since the beginning of sc2, and he is 2nd most succesful player in sc2. I may be fanboying too much, cant help myself)
Wait 2nd most successful? you mean... behind Mvp, NesTea and MC right? thats 2nd?
On September 10 2013 19:48 Full.tilt wrote: I haven't watched SC2 teamleagues for a while but where are the high 5's, do the players on this team all hate each other?
I heard MMA complained about Ryung, because he used his toothbrush. Tuned out it was Crank's toothbrush, since then the atmosphere in the team sucks.
funny you heard that. sources close to the situation actually outlined a situation where MMA and Alicia accidentally headbutted each other, passed out, and woke up hours later in a deep embrace. tensions have been running high ever since.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2)
14%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (0)
0%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 5?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
On September 10 2013 20:01 Fjodorov wrote: god damnit if zergs could micro their hydras. Move forward so they all can shoot !
The weird thing is they do it with roaches, just not hydras. He won anyway so its all good
To be fair, I think Hyvaa had some good focus fire at one point that game, when the unit counts got really low he focused down the stalkers with low HP and managed to stabilize, had he not done that then Alicia could have tipped the scales and won.
On September 10 2013 19:48 Full.tilt wrote: I haven't watched SC2 teamleagues for a while but where are the high 5's, do the players on this team all hate each other?
I heard MMA complained about Ryung, because he used his toothbrush. Tuned out it was Crank's toothbrush, since then the atmosphere in the team sucks.
funny you heard that. sources close to the situation actually outlined a situation where MMA and Alicia accidentally headbutted each other, passed out, and woke up hours later in a deep embrace. tensions have been running high ever since.
On September 10 2013 20:05 Big J wrote: "why does he make those roaches"
Because roaches are what counter this...
actually hydra ling counters mass stalker, roaches is what you want to see as toss because you can blink better you can waste a roach shot on nothing when you blink in the right moment, it's harder to do that with hydras
On September 10 2013 20:05 Ctesias wrote: I have Axiom-Acer, Innovation and Scarlett on FGSTL team, but I think it'd be hilarious if hyvaa reverse-all kills.
Go hyvaa!
Why did you pick a player who will not play? And wasn't Scarlett at 5p or something like that?
On September 10 2013 20:05 Big J wrote: "why does he make those roaches"
Because roaches are what counter this...
actually hydra ling counters mass stalker, roaches is what you want to see as toss because you can blink better you can waste a roach shot on nothing when you blink in the right moment, it's harder to do that with hydras
sorry, but it did not look like it that way at all hyvaa was retreating with hydraling and just crushed with roachhydra
Hyvaa is going to somehow proxy a spawning pool leading innovation to think its a 3 hatch before pool build. Innovations then going to move out at 11 min and win anyway. Calling it now
On September 10 2013 20:05 Big J wrote: "why does he make those roaches"
Because roaches are what counter this...
actually hydra ling counters mass stalker, roaches is what you want to see as toss because you can blink better you can waste a roach shot on nothing when you blink in the right moment, it's harder to do that with hydras
sorry, but it did not look like it that way at all hyvaa was retreating with hydraling and just crushed with roachhydra
hyvaa chased too far out the first time if he stayed back and build ling hydra he wins easily. raoches were not a good move the casters were right, and he also crushed because the +2 attack upgrade was done.
On September 10 2013 20:09 bo1b wrote: Hyvaa is going to somehow proxy a spawning pool leading innovation to think its a 3 hatch before pool build. Innovations then going to move out at 11 min and win anyway. Calling it now
JYP actually proxied a Spawning Pool on his stream once when he was offracing vs. Jaedong... It was hilarious.
On September 10 2013 20:05 Big J wrote: "why does he make those roaches"
Because roaches are what counter this...
actually hydra ling counters mass stalker, roaches is what you want to see as toss because you can blink better you can waste a roach shot on nothing when you blink in the right moment, it's harder to do that with hydras
sorry, but it did not look like it that way at all hyvaa was retreating with hydraling and just crushed with roachhydra
On September 10 2013 20:05 Big J wrote: "why does he make those roaches"
Because roaches are what counter this...
actually hydra ling counters mass stalker, roaches is what you want to see as toss because you can blink better you can waste a roach shot on nothing when you blink in the right moment, it's harder to do that with hydras
sorry, but it did not look like it that way at all hyvaa was retreating with hydraling and just crushed with roachhydra
Well, like with anything, Hydras do a ton of damage but die quickly. I think Hyvaa's issue was a lack of larva to spend on lings, which is why I think he switched to roaches. Without enough lings in front of the hydras, they die pretty quick.
On September 10 2013 20:11 Ragnarork wrote: Just tuned in ... So MMA beat Trap and Dear ?
OH SHIT FUCK YEAH ! :D
He should have won vs hyvaa too lol
Didn't see that game, assumed an all-in by hyvaa that must've caught him off guard. Well, I'm still happy MMA can show strong results somehow (I mean, after October '11 / May '12 )
On September 10 2013 20:11 Ragnarork wrote: Just tuned in ... So MMA beat Trap and Dear ?
OH SHIT FUCK YEAH ! :D
He should have won vs hyvaa too lol
Didn't see that game, assumed an all-in by hyvaa that must've caught him off guard. Well, I'm still happy MMA can show strong results somehow (I mean, after October '11 / May '12 )
More like he went for a proxy barracks against a 10pool and didn't wall off his main when he held...
On September 10 2013 20:05 Ctesias wrote: I have Axiom-Acer, Innovation and Scarlett on FGSTL team, but I think it'd be hilarious if hyvaa reverse-all kills.
Go hyvaa!
Why did you pick a player who will not play? And wasn't Scarlett at 5p or something like that?
Scarlett isn't playing? Well, that's a bummer. Didn't put too much effort in the construction of the team, I guess.
Still, she's gotten me a point so far. Better than a few others.
On September 10 2013 20:05 Ctesias wrote: I have Axiom-Acer, Innovation and Scarlett on FGSTL team, but I think it'd be hilarious if hyvaa reverse-all kills.
Go hyvaa!
Why did you pick a player who will not play? And wasn't Scarlett at 5p or something like that?
Scarlett isn't playing? Well, that's a bummer. Didn't put too much effort in the construction of the team, I guess.
Still, she's gotten me a point so far. Better than a few others.
Yeah Scarlett won't be playing till October she's on vacation/break.
On September 10 2013 20:05 Big J wrote: "why does he make those roaches"
Because roaches are what counter this...
actually hydra ling counters mass stalker, roaches is what you want to see as toss because you can blink better you can waste a roach shot on nothing when you blink in the right moment, it's harder to do that with hydras
sorry, but it did not look like it that way at all hyvaa was retreating with hydraling and just crushed with roachhydra
hyvaa chased too far out the first time if he stayed back and build ling hydra he wins easily. raoches were not a good move the casters were right, and he also crushed because the +2 attack upgrade was done.
roaches are just more costefficeint than hydras. Hydras cost so much more. At the time he had a 20supply advantage with hydra/ling, he would have had a 40-50supply advantage with roach/ling. That would have been it. At least build roach/hydra if you go hydras... Hydras are so much better with roaches (or a lot of zerglings) in front of them. There is no reason not to build roaches in that scenario if you already have the roach warren and the speed upgrade.
On September 10 2013 20:05 Ctesias wrote: I have Axiom-Acer, Innovation and Scarlett on FGSTL team, but I think it'd be hilarious if hyvaa reverse-all kills.
Go hyvaa!
Why did you pick a player who will not play? And wasn't Scarlett at 5p or something like that?
Scarlett isn't playing? Well, that's a bummer. Didn't put too much effort in the construction of the team, I guess.
Still, she's gotten me a point so far. Better than a few others.
Yeah Scarlett won't be playing till October she's on vacation/break.
On September 10 2013 20:27 jarod wrote: 4Ebay is 4 baracks Ebay? .. sry.. i didnt see the games.. just followed tl, but could not see.. so someone en-light me
On September 10 2013 20:27 jarod wrote: 4Ebay is 4 baracks Ebay? .. sry.. i didnt see the games.. just followed tl, but could not see.. so someone en-light me
On September 10 2013 20:27 jarod wrote: 4Ebay is 4 baracks Ebay? .. sry.. i didnt see the games.. just followed tl, but could not see.. so someone en-light me
He made too many ebays. :p Built 2, then made 2 more forgetting he already built them, and then he also forgot the armory.
On September 10 2013 20:27 jarod wrote: 4Ebay is 4 baracks Ebay? .. sry.. i didnt see the games.. just followed tl, but could not see.. so someone en-light me
He made too many ebays. :p Built 2, then made 2 more forgetting he already built them, and then he also forgot the armory.
lol.. i though that it is a new inno build not a mistake. nice.. but still he will win. right?
weird that innovation isn't sending drops, can easily have 8 marines missing from his army for the potential damage since mutas have been dead for awhile ;o
innovation's been choking hyvva for the past 10 minutes now. every now and then hyvva struggles enough to take a breath, but he's only delaying the inevitable.
On September 10 2013 20:27 jarod wrote: 4Ebay is 4 baracks Ebay? .. sry.. i didnt see the games.. just followed tl, but could not see.. so someone en-light me
He made too many ebays. :p Built 2, then made 2 more forgetting he already built them, and then he also forgot the armory.
lol.. i though that it is a new inno build not a mistake. nice.. but still he will win. right?
No, it's for walls on this map. I've seen him do this 3 times now. Unless a player of his caliber has unconsciously fucked up 3x in consecutive appearances I doubt it's a mistake.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
118 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 6?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Set 7?
★★★- Good game (17)
41%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (9)
22%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (6)
15%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5)
12%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (4)
10%
41 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 7?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
This was a great game. Holy shit. So happy I got home in time for some Bogus in the morning. Well fucking played by both players. Hyvaa nearly had that.
hyvaa is more than cheese. He played a fantastic game and could have won with better engagements with his ultra army. Ultras are brutal if you can get a good flank and sandwich the army of the terran.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
the snipe on the base to the right really tipped that game into innovations hands the last few minutes of that game. if hyvaa managed to secure it he had plenty of gas to trade with fungals and keep up production banes/ultras
if only he hadn't been forced to build 5 overlords at once when innovation began his last parade rally on the fourth base he might have won the game. unfortunately innovation does not forgive.
I have Innovation and I bought MMA this week and sold Alicia; and an all-Soul anti-team. My only misstep - hyvaa on anti, gonna make it less than glorious.
On September 10 2013 20:27 jarod wrote: 4Ebay is 4 baracks Ebay? .. sry.. i didnt see the games.. just followed tl, but could not see.. so someone en-light me
He made too many ebays. :p Built 2, then made 2 more forgetting he already built them, and then he also forgot the armory.
lol.. i though that it is a new inno build not a mistake. nice.. but still he will win. right?
No, it's for walls on this map. I've seen him do this 3 times now. Unless a player of his caliber has unconsciously fucked up 3x in consecutive appearances I doubt it's a mistake.
From his Ro32 interview:
In the 3rd set against DRG, you made a mistake of building 4 ebays.
I usually do not build ebays as part of my walls and was a bit tilted after the 2nd set. I made many mistakes on upgrades and supply blocks in that last set.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
And the low tier units are easily crushed by T3 Zerg, if Terran doesn't have as amazing control as INnoVation just showed.
On September 10 2013 20:40 dreamseller wrote: really seems like with DRG's game and this strong game by hyvaa that zergs are starting to figure out zv4m
new maps starting to kick in no? Maps are a huge deal.
On September 10 2013 20:40 Gamegene wrote: if only he hadn't been forced to build 5 overlords at once when innovation began his last parade rally on the fourth base he might have won the game. unfortunately innovation does not forgive.
Yeah, he was at 178/178 supply for quite while. A great game by hyvaa nonetheless.
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
118 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 6?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
Poll: Recommend Set 7?
★★★- Good game (17)
41%
★★★★★- One of the best games this season (9)
22%
★★★★- Highly recommended game (6)
15%
★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (5)
12%
★- Do not see this game no matter what (4)
10%
41 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Set 7?
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★- Good game (Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
T.T that mine hit on the workers. Hyvaa should have expanded on the other side again not in that death trap, though could have been a deathtrap for the terran with better infestor micro. Terran can't attack or the ultras will kill bases.
And yay hive tech Zerg ! But had to happen that Innovation gets lucky a few time and beats it so people think it is weak.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
And the low tier units are easily crushed by T3 Zerg, if Terran doesn't have as amazing control as INnoVation just showed.
On September 10 2013 20:40 dreamseller wrote: really seems like with DRG's game and this strong game by hyvaa that zergs are starting to figure out zv4m
new maps starting to kick in no? Maps are a huge deal.
i wasn't really checking on the size of the map, maybe it was a nice big map? otherwise, lots of ramps and chokes, seemed alright for terran
On September 10 2013 20:40 dreamseller wrote: really seems like with DRG's game and this strong game by hyvaa that zergs are starting to figure out zv4m
new maps starting to kick in no? Maps are a huge deal.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
And the low tier units are easily crushed by T3 Zerg, if Terran doesn't have as amazing control as INnoVation just showed.
and in the end zerg cant do anything
can't do anything? you ignore the fact that the game was incredibly close
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
Vipers. Kiting the Ultras? Nope. I would love to see more Vipers being used.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
And the low tier units are easily crushed by T3 Zerg, if Terran doesn't have as amazing control as INnoVation just showed.
and in the end zerg cant do anything
That is wrong. DRG said that he thinks the outcome of TvZ is mostly determined by control during the engagements. And who are you to say anything else?
Wow, that was a crazy good game, but you could really see the difference in quality of play between Hyvaa and DRG when it came to the ling, bling muta phase of the game, DRG was so much more cost efficient there and took way better fights. Hyvaa kept losing small groups of banes and lings to having them bated into marines and not doing any damage.
But that was still a great game overall, and it was a nice change of pace to see a zerg reach Hive for once, I think it could have even been a closer game, Hyvaa either needed to re-expand to his old 4th, or not lose all his drones to that mine shot, or harass Innovation more.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
And the low tier units are easily crushed by T3 Zerg, if Terran doesn't have as amazing control as INnoVation just showed.
and in the end zerg cant do anything
can't do anything? you ignore the fact that the game was incredibly close
Some may have even tapped after Hyvaa held the 3rd
On September 10 2013 20:40 dreamseller wrote: really seems like with DRG's game and this strong game by hyvaa that zergs are starting to figure out zv4m
one thing I noticed both DRG and Hyvaa did, besides great injects, was that they spent minerals on a spine wall at the base targeted by the parade push. Ive been screaming at zergs sitting on 1.5k minerals with out enough larva to do this and I really think it buys alot of time. If Zergs could micro their ultras better at set up better flanks I think ZvT wil only get better.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
Vipers. Kiting the Ultras? Nope. I would love to see more Vipers being used.
off topic but i find vipers to be really expensive and they take too long to get into action (build time + consume) in fast paced trade games like this, which is every 4m game
On September 10 2013 20:44 Destructicon wrote: Wow, that was a crazy good game, but you could really see the difference in quality of play between Hyvaa and DRG when it came to the ling, bling muta phase of the game, DRG was so much more cost efficient there and took way better fights. Hyvaa kept losing small groups of banes and lings to having them bated into marines and not doing any damage.
But that was still a great game overall, and it was a nice change of pace to see a zerg reach Hive for once, I think it could have even been a closer game, Hyvaa either needed to re-expand to his old 4th, or not lose all his drones to that mine shot, or harass Innovation more.
I have new respect for Hyvaa now.
And more importantly, he lost all his mutas so he had nothing by lategame to deal with the 10+ Medivacs constantly healing.
On September 10 2013 20:44 Destructicon wrote: Wow, that was a crazy good game, but you could really see the difference in quality of play between Hyvaa and DRG when it came to the ling, bling muta phase of the game, DRG was so much more cost efficient there and took way better fights. Hyvaa kept losing small groups of banes and lings to having them bated into marines and not doing any damage.
But that was still a great game overall, and it was a nice change of pace to see a zerg reach Hive for once, I think it could have even been a closer game, Hyvaa either needed to re-expand to his old 4th, or not lose all his drones to that mine shot, or harass Innovation more.
I have new respect for Hyvaa now.
I have lost respect for hyvaa... He can macro like that but chooses to cheese 95% of his ZvTs. D:
he spent the entire early game trying to piss off innovation and squeek an advantage and only managed to lose literally every single unit before innovation had 6 hellions. it might not seem like much, but that scouting worker he kept at innovation's natural, the 8 extra zerglings he made to try and sneak past, those could have been more creep in the midgame, a faster fourth base, an extra ultralisk by the end of the game. that game was so close towards the end that the small disadvantages hyvva put on himself early game could have tipped the victory to his favor.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
And the low tier units are easily crushed by T3 Zerg, if Terran doesn't have as amazing control as INnoVation just showed.
and in the end zerg cant do anything
Of course... just watch DRG. Just don't build Lostralisk/Investor and stay on moneylisk/painling. Then you can kill those SCVs+PF with a mutalisk counter, instead of only killing the SCVs with fungals and you can kill those medivacs when you crush the army instead of watching them fly away or wasting 10fungals on them. And then you can stop that drop in the end and don't lose your spawning pool.
On September 10 2013 20:44 Destructicon wrote: Wow, that was a crazy good game, but you could really see the difference in quality of play between Hyvaa and DRG when it came to the ling, bling muta phase of the game, DRG was so much more cost efficient there and took way better fights. Hyvaa kept losing small groups of banes and lings to having them bated into marines and not doing any damage.
But that was still a great game overall, and it was a nice change of pace to see a zerg reach Hive for once, I think it could have even been a closer game, Hyvaa either needed to re-expand to his old 4th, or not lose all his drones to that mine shot, or harass Innovation more.
I have new respect for Hyvaa now.
I think the main difference was that DRG was much more active with his mutas. Also he morphed more blings I think.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
Vipers. Kiting the Ultras? Nope. I would love to see more Vipers being used.
off topic but i find vipers to be really expensive and they take too long to get into action (build time + consume) in fast paced trade games like this, which is every 4m game
But after the Zerg manages to get infestors and a few Ultras he usually gets some more breathing room. Like in this game. I think when hyvaa tried to kill the 5th of INnoVation he could have been less aggressive and instead built Vipers.
On September 10 2013 20:40 dreamseller wrote: really seems like with DRG's game and this strong game by hyvaa that zergs are starting to figure out zv4m
one thing I noticed both DRG and Hyvaa did, besides great injects, was that they spent minerals on a spine wall at the base targeted by the parade push. Ive been screaming at zergs sitting on 1.5k minerals with out enough larva to do this and I really think it buys alot of time. If Zergs could micro their ultras better at set up better flanks I think ZvT wil only get better.
spine wall plus earlier hive have helped zergs a lot.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
Vipers. Kiting the Ultras? Nope. I would love to see more Vipers being used.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
And the low tier units are easily crushed by T3 Zerg, if Terran doesn't have as amazing control as INnoVation just showed.
and in the end zerg cant do anything
That is wrong. DRG said that he thinks the outcome of TvZ is mostly determined by control during the engagements. And who are you to say anything else?
Mhh i have seen viper's do really well in PvZ and i was suprised how much it did but you gotta remember it costs extra APM i dont know if microing the vipers is the best efficient thing
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
Vipers. Kiting the Ultras? Nope. I would love to see more Vipers being used.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
And the low tier units are easily crushed by T3 Zerg, if Terran doesn't have as amazing control as INnoVation just showed.
and in the end zerg cant do anything
That is wrong. DRG said that he thinks the outcome of TvZ is mostly determined by control during the engagements. And who are you to say anything else?
I hope you are joking, Vipers are terrible vs Bio, you cast cloud, but the bio moves out of the cloud and continue kiting, if you move the vipers far forward enough to do clouds behind the bio then they get focus fired down and destroyed, and then the bio just moves out of the cloud and continues to kite anyway. Infestor is still the much better choice. Yes please, make more vipers vs my bio, I want more free wins.
On September 10 2013 20:40 dreamseller wrote: really seems like with DRG's game and this strong game by hyvaa that zergs are starting to figure out zv4m
one thing I noticed both DRG and Hyvaa did, besides great injects, was that they spent minerals on a spine wall at the base targeted by the parade push. Ive been screaming at zergs sitting on 1.5k minerals with out enough larva to do this and I really think it buys alot of time. If Zergs could micro their ultras better at set up better flanks I think ZvT wil only get better.
I strongly agree with u : ) the spines are really crucial , some better flanks, a little bit more time for zergs , and the TvZ match up can become pure insanety !^
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
And the low tier units are easily crushed by T3 Zerg, if Terran doesn't have as amazing control as INnoVation just showed.
and in the end zerg cant do anything
Of course... just watch DRG. Just don't build Lostralisk/Investor and stay on moneylisk/painling. Then you can kill those SCVs+PF with a mutalisk counter, instead of only killing the SCVs with fungals and you can kill those medivacs when you crush the army instead of watching them fly away or wasting 10fungals on them. And then you can stop that drop in the end and don't lose your spawning pool.
i meant like: in the end the zerg cant do anything except ling bling muta. i really loved that game but im a bit unsatisfied that it always has to be that kinda of game in TvZ
On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better
He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th
W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
I really want to see the day that Zergs build about 3 Swarm Hosts, right after they got Hive. Just 3 should do the trick. It's sacking 3 Mutas & 12 zerglings for space control & Widow Mine timer screw ups. They eat 2 widow mine shots and they've paid for themselves.
The real issue with the parade push is that Zergs haven't found a good way to push it back from their bases without beating it all the way back. Space Control via Swarm Hosts would do the trick. But you don't need mass numbers. Much like Broodlords in in TvZ. Just a few (so 3-5) does almost all of the work. Gone are the days of mass tech switches generally working.
Well, unless it's PvZ into a mass Muta switch with no Templar or Stalkers on the field, haha.
On September 10 2013 20:40 dreamseller wrote: really seems like with DRG's game and this strong game by hyvaa that zergs are starting to figure out zv4m
new maps starting to kick in no? Maps are a huge deal.
Maps and Innovation didn't scout that 4th for a long time. Letting that go pretty much allowed hyvaa to stay in the game as long as he did.
Sick game by hyvva. Seemed like he did everything right with spines, with his infestors even killing all mules, and got hive tech ultras. But Ultra just suck so bad. Inno mades 4 ebays and no problem. Behind on bases and doesnt drop much still no problem. Something just feels weaker about zerg in every game I watch except DRGs. More need to play like DRG I guess. Sick game anyways
On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better
He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th
W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today
Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games.
On September 10 2013 20:42 FeyFey wrote: T.T that mine hit on the workers. Hyvaa should have expanded on the other side again not in that death trap, though could have been a deathtrap for the terran with better infestor micro. Terran can't attack or the ultras will kill bases.
And yay hive tech Zerg ! But had to happen that Innovation gets lucky a few time and beats it so people think it is weak.
w/ his army now less mobile w/ ultra, expand there is actually a right choice, he keep up w/ the pace of medivac to defend 2 expansion far away
Innovation not playing by his standart. Mistakes in BO. Late upgrades. Unscouted base. Barely any drops. No multi-directional attacks. Burrowing mines in front of Spore and Spines.
There was one engagement at the right side where hyvaa lost about 10-15 mutas. I think that pretty much lost him the game. He had very good bane/ling engagements at some points, but his muta count was decreasing, because he wasn't really using them well. Other than that I believe hyvaa played a very good game.
Did anybody catch how many drones were killed in that mine shot? o.O other than that unlucky shot, I loved this game, amazing. SPINE CRAWLERS ON THE 4th Zergs. So good, sooo gooood.
On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better
He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th
well, you can't harass SCVs if your opponent has no SCVs
just need to scout for the mule hammers and snipe them asap, two mule hammers denied and the Terran has a problem. And not really a problem for the Zerg to burrow lings behind the mineral line of potential Terran bases. Freeing units to attack there on the other hand is quiet tough.
But have to admit this strip mining on new bases by the Terran is usually the gamechanger where the Zerg breaks even more then the 3/3 advantage. Maybe a bit to strong but haven't seen a Zerg deny it really. And when Hyvaa did it today once, even though a bit to late, it brought him easily on hive and to ultras.
On September 10 2013 20:51 NarutO wrote: There was one engagement at the right side where hyvaa lost about 10-15 mutas. I think that pretty much lost him the game. He had very good bane/ling engagements at some points, but his muta count was decreasing, because he wasn't really using them well. Other than that I believe hyvaa played a very good game.
Prior to the Muta losses, Innovation lured around 12 banelings into his army and lost nothing. After that hyvaa had to use his Mutas a bit more aggressively then he would have liked to Imo. But still sniped so many Medivacs. Just imagine those had survived till the Infestor Ultra phase, when all those Medivacs were fungaled.
On September 10 2013 20:50 tdt wrote: Sick game by hyvva. Seemed like he did everything right with spines, with his infestors even killing all mules, and got hive tech ultras. But Ultra just suck so bad. Inno mades 4 ebays and no problem. Behind on bases and doesnt drop much still no problem. Something just feels weaker about zerg in every game I watch except DRGs. More need to play like DRG I guess. Sick game anyways
Oh no, he wasted 250 minerals, surely he should 100% lose the game as a consequence!
On September 10 2013 20:51 NarutO wrote: There was one engagement at the right side where hyvaa lost about 10-15 mutas. I think that pretty much lost him the game. He had very good bane/ling engagements at some points, but his muta count was decreasing, because he wasn't really using them well. Other than that I believe hyvaa played a very good game.
there was like 12 medivacs at the end of game fighting those ultralisks? imagine those mutalisks sticking around the entire game to pick some off here and there.
playing vs innovation and to a larger extent terran can be extremely unforgiving if your opponent is competent and skilled.
On September 10 2013 20:52 Shauku wrote: Did anybody catch how many drones were killed in that mine shot? o.O other than that unlucky shot, I loved this game, amazing. SPINE CRAWLERS ON THE 4th Zergs. So good, sooo gooood.
Furthermore, let’s say Zergs defends and defends and is finally allowed to tech to Hive. What units can they make? Broodlords, Ultralisks. Both of these units are easily countered by low tech Terran units. Ultralisks? Build more maurauders. Broodlords? Build more vikings.
-MC
I really want to see the day that Zergs build about 3 Swarm Hosts, right after they got Hive. Just 3 should do the trick. It's sacking 3 Mutas & 12 zerglings for space control & Widow Mine timer screw ups. They eat 2 widow mine shots and they've paid for themselves.
The real issue with the parade push is that Zergs haven't found a good way to push it back from their bases without beating it all the way back. Space Control via Swarm Hosts would do the trick. But you don't need mass numbers. Much like Broodlords in in TvZ. Just a few (so 3-5) does almost all of the work. Gone are the days of mass tech switches generally working.
Well, unless it's PvZ into a mass Muta switch with no Templar or Stalkers on the field, haha.
Thats not how it works, in small numbers locust are useless and they get focus fired down in time by marines before they can activate mines. Its a cute idea in theory but a terrible idea in practice.
And people, for the love of all goodness stop saying Ultra, Infestor, Ling isn't worth it. It is absolutely terrifying vs terran and very cost efficient, you saw how Hyvaa destroyed Innovation in a couple of engagements. The problem is, Zergs have been stuck in Lair tech for the past 5-6 months and have forgotten how to play Infestor, Ultra vs Bio, and don't tell me they had experience from WoL, because skillshot fungal is vastly different from instant fungal.
Give it some time, at first I was worried only DRG could get to Hive because he is a badass and an outliner, but if Hyvaa could get to Hive against arguably the best TvZer in the world then more Zergs can and should be able to do it, and then once they have more experience with Ultra, Infestor you will see Zergs do better.
On September 10 2013 20:51 NarutO wrote: There was one engagement at the right side where hyvaa lost about 10-15 mutas. I think that pretty much lost him the game. He had very good bane/ling engagements at some points, but his muta count was decreasing, because he wasn't really using them well. Other than that I believe hyvaa played a very good game.
there was like 12 medivacs at the end of game fighting those ultralisks? imagine those mutalisks sticking around the entire game to pick some off here and there.
playing vs innovation and to a larger extent terran can be extremely unforgiving if your opponent is competent and skilled.
Well, playing UNO can be extremely unforgiving if your opponent is competent and skilled :/
On September 10 2013 20:51 NarutO wrote: There was one engagement at the right side where hyvaa lost about 10-15 mutas. I think that pretty much lost him the game. He had very good bane/ling engagements at some points, but his muta count was decreasing, because he wasn't really using them well. Other than that I believe hyvaa played a very good game.
there was like 12 medivacs at the end of game fighting those ultralisks? imagine those mutalisks sticking around the entire game to pick some off here and there.
playing vs innovation and to a larger extent terran can be extremely unforgiving if your opponent is competent and skilled.
Yeah DRG picked off medivacs quite a lot more than hyvaa did.
On September 10 2013 20:50 tdt wrote: Sick game by hyvva. Seemed like he did everything right with spines, with his infestors even killing all mules, and got hive tech ultras. But Ultra just suck so bad. Inno mades 4 ebays and no problem. Behind on bases and doesnt drop much still no problem. Something just feels weaker about zerg in every game I watch except DRGs. More need to play like DRG I guess. Sick game anyways
If you think about that first big engagement with the ultras it was a quite tight choke (almost always is with fat ultras) and Hyvaa had like 4-5 ultras behind infestors headbutting their way forward. Imagine 3 ultras and a bunch of lings coming from behind and sandwitching inno instead? I think there are ways to make ultras work, stephano had imba infestors on his side but he also had the best ultra control because he made sure to spread them out and flank etc. There is room for improvement.
On September 10 2013 20:51 NarutO wrote: There was one engagement at the right side where hyvaa lost about 10-15 mutas. I think that pretty much lost him the game. He had very good bane/ling engagements at some points, but his muta count was decreasing, because he wasn't really using them well. Other than that I believe hyvaa played a very good game.
I pretty much agree. That said he managed to almost win with the techswitch + hidden base and killing ~30 scvs and some mules.
The only thing I hate is how effective mules can be late late late game, seems a little silly that you can be on <40 scvs, save up energy on 4 orbitals and then have 3k minerals a minute for 30 seconds or so. That sort of income boost can just win the game or negate damage for enough time to make it even again.
On September 10 2013 20:50 tdt wrote: Sick game by hyvva. Seemed like he did everything right with spines, with his infestors even killing all mules, and got hive tech ultras. But Ultra just suck so bad. Inno mades 4 ebays and no problem. Behind on bases and doesnt drop much still no problem. Something just feels weaker about zerg in every game I watch except DRGs. More need to play like DRG I guess. Sick game anyways
Oh no, he wasted 250 minerals, surely he should 100% lose the game as a consequence!
WOL zergs will actually have you believing such a thing.
The game was really close only because Hyvaa got really lucky Innovation could've killed the bottom base in a matter of seconds instead of breaking the rocks but didn't. Imagine how one-sided the game would have been if Innovation saw that base that isn't really even "hidden".
On September 10 2013 20:50 tdt wrote: Sick game by hyvva. Seemed like he did everything right with spines, with his infestors even killing all mules, and got hive tech ultras. But Ultra just suck so bad. Inno mades 4 ebays and no problem. Behind on bases and doesnt drop much still no problem. Something just feels weaker about zerg in every game I watch except DRGs. More need to play like DRG I guess. Sick game anyways
If you think about that first big engagement with the ultras it was a quite tight choke (almost always is with fat ultras) and Hyvaa had like 4-5 ultras behind infestors headbutting their way forward. Imagine 3 ultras and a bunch of lings coming from behind and sandwitching inno instead? I think there are ways to make ultras work, stephano had imba infestors on his side but he also had the best ultra control because he made sure to spread them out and flank etc. There is room for improvement.
On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better
He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th
W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today
Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games.
DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better
He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th
W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today
Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games.
DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
Hyvaa is really bad at spending his money actually. If you look at DRG vs Innovation again you'll notice DRG keeps his money low all game long, if you watch Hyvaa, you can see he was supply blocked and was banking several times during the game.
On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better
He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th
W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today
Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games.
DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
Hyvaa's baneling and muta control was far worse then drgs. Drg would have straight up won the game when innovation was pushing into his third. The advantage hyvaa got from an unscouted base as well as having 88 drones shouldn't be discounted.
Dont know why people are mad the game was amazing and bith played amazing and Hyvaa nearly had it! Just abit more polish and he wouldve done it. Showing zergs that it is possible
On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better
He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th
W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today
Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games.
DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
One thing hyvaa messed up was not sniping medivacs, drg was so much more active with his mutas, 2 extras ebays aren't a huge deal,his upgrades were slightly behind(the 2-2 that is) hyvaa's not by much, drg had the better engages throughout the series more so then hyvaa did. This was just 1 game though.
On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better
He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th
W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today
Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games.
DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
It simply doesn't work when you simplifiy the coparision into zerg v terran when in fact there are skills of players involved in it. You could see that DRG was equal with Innovation in skill in those games. You couldn't say the same about Hyvaa.
gotta say innovation doesnt look as sharp lately, just this game again 4 ebays, armory was almost a minute late, had 3 rax not hotkeyed for a long time, unit control was good but not amazing, will be interesting how his play develops in the upcoming weeks in his new practice environment
On September 10 2013 21:06 Tsubbi wrote: gotta say innovation doesnt look as sharp lately, just this game again 4 ebays, armory was almost a minute late, had 3 rax not hotkeyed for a long time, unit control was good but not amazing, will be interesting how his play develops in the upcoming weeks in his new practice environment
that loss vs DRG must have shook his confidence. he lost a series not to random luck or mistakes, but simply because DRG outclassed him heavily with raw skill.
On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better
He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th
W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today
Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games.
DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
It simply doesn't work when you simplifiy the coparision into zerg v terran when in fact there are skills of players involved in it. You could see that DRG was equal with Innovation in skill in those games. You couldn't say the same about Hyvaa.
On September 10 2013 20:40 Elroi wrote: I thought Hyvaa played better
He stopped to breathe too much, needed more harass like that fungal on the 4th
W/ continous rallying marine, actually i dont get where he could have room to breath, harass on the 4th can only come once cause u need energy to fungal marine, and im sure that from the time he harass to the time he lost that base his infestor never got to more than 100 energy. I do believe Hyvaa really play better there, that mine hit on the drone is either a play of genius or a lucky one, u nvr know. Everything just go exactly like MC statement, poor Hyvaa, he really the best player today
Not really sure. DRG beated the shit out of Inno in macro games.
DRG have done everything perfect and not for once get big mine hit, what I said just that Terran always has room for small mistakes as long as he keep up his production while Z need to perfectly needs to do both. This game was actually the evidence, Innovation build extra Ebay, forget armory, lost like 15 scv+mule, and got decent hit by fungal countless time yet he still manage to get the game, or maybe Hyvaa just not that good in term of pumping out unit, I believe his money never got more than 500 min
It simply doesn't work when you simplifiy the coparision into zerg v terran when in fact there are skills of players involved in it. You could see that DRG was equal with Innovation in skill in those games. You couldn't say the same about Hyvaa.
DRG actually did look a lot better in every measurable way. His creep spread was on point all game, he kept his money low all game (ergo he must have been hitting his injects sharply all game), he took better engagements, he had better unit retention, his banelings where being split and manually detonated, doing on average more damage, he didn't take any giant mine hits and few large ones, his muta control was better, better retention, better sniping of medivacs and mines, his timings where crisper, he knew when to expand, he knew when Innovation would try to expand and countered beautifully.
I don't mean to shit on Hyvaa he is a fantastic player in his own right, but DRG was simply on another level in that series.
On September 10 2013 21:02 GumBa wrote: Dont know why people are mad the game was amazing and bith played amazing and Hyvaa nearly had it! Just abit more polish and he wouldve done it. Showing zergs that it is possible
Word. I think recent games from Scarlett, DRG and now Hyvaa just show us that zergs are getting there and the match up needs more time. I think balance wise it will be ok. Now people, questioning the game design and a lack of variety, do have a point I guess. But I'm a fan of games where it's just about perfect execution, even if you always know what will happen. That's how wc3 was too and then there will always be some cheeses in a boX.
On September 10 2013 21:02 GumBa wrote: Dont know why people are mad the game was amazing and bith played amazing and Hyvaa nearly had it! Just abit more polish and he wouldve done it. Showing zergs that it is possible
Word. I think recent games from Scarlett, DRG and now Hyvaa just show us that zergs are getting there and the match up needs more time. I think balance wise it will be ok. Now people, questioning the game design and a lack of variety, do have a point I guess. But I'm a fan of games where it's just about perfect execution, even if you always know what will happen. That's how wc3 was too and then there will always be some cheeses in a boX.
To a certain extent it was how broodwar was aswell, though in broodwar there was still more variety. Imagine if once ultralisks came out terrans had to transition to unit x (not a marauder), and consequently zergs had to transition to unit y in order for it to even up. Would really make it more interesting.
That was one of the problems I had with ghost snipe, it just became so anti climatic that a zerg could transition from muta/ling/bling to ultras or broodlords or something and then just watch those units become useless. Though I guess ghosts are t3, but you get the picture. Watching leenock lose vs jjakji in seconds after getting broodlords out to ghost snipe was both amazing and sad.
On September 10 2013 21:02 GumBa wrote: Dont know why people are mad the game was amazing and bith played amazing and Hyvaa nearly had it! Just abit more polish and he wouldve done it. Showing zergs that it is possible
Word. I think recent games from Scarlett, DRG and now Hyvaa just show us that zergs are getting there and the match up needs more time. I think balance wise it will be ok. Now people, questioning the game design and a lack of variety, do have a point I guess. But I'm a fan of games where it's just about perfect execution, even if you always know what will happen. That's how wc3 was too and then there will always be some cheeses in a boX.
To a certain extent it was how broodwar was aswell, though in broodwar there was still more variety. Imagine if once ultralisks came out terrans had to transition to unit x (not a marauder), and consequently zergs had to transition to unit y in order for it to even up. Would really make it more interesting.
That was one of the problems I had with ghost snipe, it just became so anti climatic that a zerg could transition from muta/ling/bling to ultras or broodlords or something and then just watch those units become useless. Though I guess ghosts are t3, but you get the picture. Watching leenock lose vs jjakji in seconds after getting broodlords out to ghost snipe was both amazing and sad.
Yeah I won't disagree. More unit transitions (from terran) would of course make it even better. But still, TvZ already delivers amazing games.
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
Those are some strong words
Innovation's vZ is boring when you compare it to that game on whirlwind :3
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
Those are some strong words
Innovation's vZ is boring when you compare it to that game on whirlwind :3
Innovation is magnitudes better at TvZ than any other Terran in history. You are forgetting about the general skill of players raising.
If you watch early GSL games you'll notice they play worse than most masters players now.
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
Those are some strong words
Innovation's vZ is boring when you compare it to that game on whirlwind :3
Innovation is magnitudes better at TvZ than any other Terran in history. You are forgetting about the general skill of players raising.
If you watch early GSL games you'll notice they play worse than most masters players now.
Innovation IS better. But his games are boring and show the worst side of TvZ there is aka boring, monotonous battle of mechanics. Also, i think most of players will agree that DRG was pretty close to his peak during that game on whirlwind and his only error was going broodlord festor on whirlwind :D
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
Those are some strong words
Innovation's vZ is boring when you compare it to that game on whirlwind :3
Innovation is magnitudes better at TvZ than any other Terran in history. You are forgetting about the general skill of players raising.
If you watch early GSL games you'll notice they play worse than most masters players now.
He wasn't calling innovation unskilled, he called it boring. People miss Marine/Tank/Medivac vs Muta/Ling/Bling
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
Those are some strong words
Innovation's vZ is boring when you compare it to that game on whirlwind :3
If you watch early GSL games you'll notice they play worse than most masters players now.
How early are we talking about? If it's just out of the beta then you're probably right but past like mid 2011 I would really disagree with that.
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
Those are some strong words
Innovation's vZ is boring when you compare it to that game on whirlwind :3
Innovation is magnitudes better at TvZ than any other Terran in history. You are forgetting about the general skill of players raising.
If you watch early GSL games you'll notice they play worse than most masters players now.
Innovation IS better. But his games are boring and show the worst side of TvZ there is aka boring, monotonous battle of mechanics. Also, i think most of players will agree that DRG was pretty close to his peak during that game on whirlwind and his only error was going broodlord festor on whirlwind :D
The longer strats are developed, the nearer they get to the optimal, best strategy. Watching a RTS game and call it boring when the skill gets higher is imo just stupid. Why even watch it in the first place, to whine on a forum? I would just switch games, cause with better scouting from the players the 10% mech vs Z / strange gateway 2 forge style against Z / chargelot archon against T etc. will just disappear leaving standard play.
Tldr: With better scouting expect seeing almost only standard builds.
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
Those are some strong words
Innovation's vZ is boring when you compare it to that game on whirlwind :3
Innovation is magnitudes better at TvZ than any other Terran in history. You are forgetting about the general skill of players raising.
If you watch early GSL games you'll notice they play worse than most masters players now.
If you're saying that most masters play better than MMA, DRG, Mvp in 2011 then gtfo.
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
Those are some strong words
Innovation's vZ is boring when you compare it to that game on whirlwind :3
Innovation is magnitudes better at TvZ than any other Terran in history. You are forgetting about the general skill of players raising.
If you watch early GSL games you'll notice they play worse than most masters players now.
Innovation IS better. But his games are boring and show the worst side of TvZ there is aka boring, monotonous battle of mechanics. Also, i think most of players will agree that DRG was pretty close to his peak during that game on whirlwind and his only error was going broodlord festor on whirlwind :D
The longer strats are developed, the nearer they get to the optimal, best strategy. Watching a RTS game and call it boring when the skill gets higher is imo just stupid. Why even watch it in the first place, to whine on a forum? I would just switch games, cause with better scouting from the players the 10% mech vs Z / strange gateway 2 forge style against Z / chargelot archon against T etc. will just disappear leaving standard play.
Tldr: With better scouting expect seeing almost only standard builds.
Yeah its stupid. Crazy mechanics are why I watch Starcraft. Funky tactics are cool but you can see them at any level.
Everytime I see people say that Inno's TvZ is boring, I'm just bowled over. Yes, he wins everytime with widow mine and rines/rauders, but come on, its constant pressure and constant action.
I love watching his mechanics and vs a top Zerg like Soulkey, and now DRG, its a constant action fest all across the map. Now people are saying mechanics are boring? Well, you can watch lower league players use BCs, Thors and what not higher tier units, but me, I'm just entertained by the 20-30 min slug fest. And now that Inno's not infallible, its even more entertaining.
On September 11 2013 09:34 openbox1 wrote: Everytime I see people say that Inno's TvZ is boring, I'm just bowled over. Yes, he wins everytime with widow mine and rines/rauders, but come on, its constant pressure and constant action.
I love watching his mechanics and vs a top Zerg like Soulkey, and now DRG, its a constant action fest all across the map. Now people are saying mechanics are boring? Well, you can watch lower league players use BCs, Thors and what not higher tier units, but me, I'm just entertained by the 20-30 min slug fest. And now that Inno's not infallible, its even more entertaining.
It only applied to Innovation's 4M TvZ. His WoL biotank TvZ was breathtaking.
On September 10 2013 21:32 lolfail9001 wrote: So, i missed the games, can someone tell me, what cheese did hyvaa use against MMA? Or MMA built tanks and hyvaa just killed him in macro game?
Hyvaa 10 pooled, MMA did 11rax11gas and proxied the rax. Hyvaa did some damage to MMAs economy (no wall of), MMA tried to do a 2 port banshee followup. Hyvaa attacked with some speedlings and just killed MMA (no wall off again)
Bizarre. Also, watched Ryung vs DRG from the early queen patch days. Argh, Innovation vZ sucks in comparison to that.
Those are some strong words
Innovation's vZ is boring when you compare it to that game on whirlwind :3
Innovation is magnitudes better at TvZ than any other Terran in history. You are forgetting about the general skill of players raising.
If you watch early GSL games you'll notice they play worse than most masters players now.
If you're saying that most masters play better than MMA, DRG, Mvp in 2011 then gtfo.
I think he's saying that if we, at this point in time, teleported a Masters player back to that period, the skill level would be roughly the same. Although the skill gap does decrease, I still don't think ANY Masters player now can be compared to MMA, Mvp, etc. back in 2011. Unless INnoVation or Rain are somehow Masters and not GM.
EPT
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MMA 
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Marauders good units. Chew em up, MMA!
