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On August 26 2013 19:38 opterown wrote:
but they are rather independent skills though, macro is more than just putting APM into building marines and such. mkp at his peak had some pretty damn good micro and macro, and players like bogus/flash are pretty solid at both.
flash always had insane macro ever since BW
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On August 26 2013 19:35 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 18:49 AxionSteel wrote:On August 26 2013 18:00 NexCa wrote:On August 26 2013 17:23 painkilla wrote:On August 26 2013 16:07 Schelim wrote:
holy motherfucking SHIT fuck YEAAAAAAAH BOMBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i watched the VODs of the semis last night and the finals just now and i'm so fucking happy right now. today is gonna be a good day. Bomber is a fucking monster. it looks like one of my top 3 favorite players is about to take the spot another one used to hold (Mvp). perfect game sense, great series planning, huge variety of builds, high mental strength, and he actually has better macro than Mvp when he won fucking everything.
holy fuck i feel so good right now. Bomber is very much like Mvp with better macro but I think his series planning is not as good as Mvp's yet. If you look at the series against Rain in OSL, when his plan didn't go well he kinda fell apart and just lose badly. Better Macro than MVP ? Kidding me !? oO yeah comfortably. Mvp's macro was always pretty good but not outstanding like Bombers. To be fair, I always found it weird people look at macro and micro independently. Once you get to the mid game, it is all about how you spread your APM. Bomber always prioritized macro (so he sometimes loses armies due to lack of micro). He was the opposite of MKP who would prioritize his micro. Mvp was successful because he found the best balance between the two (Innovation is probably the best at balancing the 2 right now, but his strategies aren't as flexible).
MKP had/has superb macro as well though, strange how this is often overlooked. It's his many other faults that lead to his demise so often 
On August 26 2013 20:08 Emzeeshady wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 19:02 AxionSteel wrote:On August 26 2013 12:01 usethis2 wrote:
Taeja is one of those generic terrans who managed to survive after the GomTvT era. He is overly hyped for being in team liquid, but if you look at his games he lacks that something. Brilliance, star sense, aura, whatever you call it. Lol rubbish. He's anything but a "generic Terran" who "managed to survive" after terran imbalance. He frequently displays Brilliance, and showed it off plenty of times over the weekend against innovation and Rain in particular. I think he is an amazing player that lacks patience/game sense. More then once he tried to move into Bomber's tanks or make a large drop/move out that seemed completely rushed. If he was more patient and planned out everything he was going to do I think he could make the next step from good to top 5 in the world good.
ya i've seen him regularly do that in the past as well. He has some really questionable/ballsy enagements in TvT in particular. Occasionally they work out and I'm like...wow, but often they don't.
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Russian Federation604 Posts
Bomber was unstoppable! Grats to him!
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Anybody hating on JD in here for saying he had an easy road knows nothing... He has Placed 2nd in the past TOP 3 Tourney's... it is only a matter of time where he will be the one taking first non stop... JD is just hitting his stride with SC2 and even though i dont root for zergs its hard not to root for JD
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 26 2013 18:20 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2013 18:00 NexCa wrote:On August 26 2013 17:23 painkilla wrote:On August 26 2013 16:07 Schelim wrote:
holy motherfucking SHIT fuck YEAAAAAAAH BOMBEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i watched the VODs of the semis last night and the finals just now and i'm so fucking happy right now. today is gonna be a good day. Bomber is a fucking monster. it looks like one of my top 3 favorite players is about to take the spot another one used to hold (Mvp). perfect game sense, great series planning, huge variety of builds, high mental strength, and he actually has better macro than Mvp when he won fucking everything.
holy fuck i feel so good right now. Bomber is very much like Mvp with better macro but I think his series planning is not as good as Mvp's yet. If you look at the series against Rain in OSL, when his plan didn't go well he kinda fell apart and just lose badly. Better Macro than MVP ? Kidding me !? oO As much as I love mvp, bomber is a mechanical god. Watch his stream and you will see how clean he plays. I don't think any terran is better at macro. Mvp's strengths lie elsewhere.
Yes I think MVP's strengths are his incredible choice of build orders in long series, great composer under pressure, decision making, and just straight up knowing how to win. Mechanics are not what makes him a good player, thats why even when he was suffering from incredible wrist pain (dont know if this is still the case) he was able to go toe to toe with the best players in the world. Its players like Bomber and Innovation that are incredible because they are mechanical gods.
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Russian Federation117 Posts
I guess one of the interesting observations could be made of this event - "wcs korea" koreans have had some issues playing outside Korea but eventually some of them were able to overcome that "jet lag" effect. Meanwhile, that lack of "being at home" comfort opened an opportunity window for (top) foreigners.
I'd expect the effect spread even more for Season 3 cause it's gonna be held in Toronto.
p.s. Taeja vs Inno game 3 is a must have for bio vs tech tvt masters classics imho
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On August 27 2013 00:39 Jornada wrote:
Anybody hating on JD in here for saying he had an easy road knows nothing... He has Placed 2nd in the past TOP 3 Tourney's... it is only a matter of time where he will be the one taking first non stop... JD is just hitting his stride with SC2 and even though i dont root for zergs its hard not to root for JD
Same here, when I saw it came down to Bomber VS. Jaedong, I didn't care who won at that point. JD deserves respect for his consistency. None of this Jaekong b.s. the man is Zerg greatness.
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On August 27 2013 02:11 renaissanceMAN wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 00:39 Jornada wrote:
Anybody hating on JD in here for saying he had an easy road knows nothing... He has Placed 2nd in the past TOP 3 Tourney's... it is only a matter of time where he will be the one taking first non stop... JD is just hitting his stride with SC2 and even though i dont root for zergs its hard not to root for JD Same here, when I saw it came down to Bomber VS. Jaedong, I didn't care who won at that point. JD deserves respect for his consistency. None of this Jaekong b.s. the man is Zerg greatness.
Yes, Respect for Jaedong.
Why he didnt use Broodlords? not only on his games against Bomber, but also against MC?
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On August 27 2013 03:16 TheRunawayFound wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 02:11 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 27 2013 00:39 Jornada wrote:
Anybody hating on JD in here for saying he had an easy road knows nothing... He has Placed 2nd in the past TOP 3 Tourney's... it is only a matter of time where he will be the one taking first non stop... JD is just hitting his stride with SC2 and even though i dont root for zergs its hard not to root for JD Same here, when I saw it came down to Bomber VS. Jaedong, I didn't care who won at that point. JD deserves respect for his consistency. None of this Jaekong b.s. the man is Zerg greatness. Yes, Respect for Jaedong. Why he didnt use Broodlords? not only on his games against Bomber, but also against MC?
Mobility.
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On August 27 2013 03:16 TheRunawayFound wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 02:11 renaissanceMAN wrote:On August 27 2013 00:39 Jornada wrote:
Anybody hating on JD in here for saying he had an easy road knows nothing... He has Placed 2nd in the past TOP 3 Tourney's... it is only a matter of time where he will be the one taking first non stop... JD is just hitting his stride with SC2 and even though i dont root for zergs its hard not to root for JD Same here, when I saw it came down to Bomber VS. Jaedong, I didn't care who won at that point. JD deserves respect for his consistency. None of this Jaekong b.s. the man is Zerg greatness. Yes, Respect for Jaedong. Why he didnt use Broodlords? not only on his games against Bomber, but also against MC?
Teching to broodlords while playing against bio mines is just not possible unless you get a good lead early on.
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People say Bomber is impecably amazing macro because that rep was given to him when he started going to MLGs in 2011. These days, despite what people admit, a ton of korean terrans are just as good as eachother when it comes to macro. It's just not that difficult in sc2 (lets not talk about Fantasy, god knows why he can't macro)
It's like when people still say RET IS THE KIND OF DRONES, despite that droning is a fundamental zerg mechanic that anybody can do (and just about every korean zerg does better than him). It's just a historical rep that people don't let go, and pretend X player is better at something than most other players
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Bomber, my man. Startale fighting
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On August 27 2013 04:38 Zenbrez wrote:
People say Bomber is impecably amazing macro because that rep was given to him when he started going to MLGs in 2011. These days, despite what people admit, a ton of korean terrans are just as good as eachother when it comes to macro. It's just not that difficult in sc2 (lets not talk about Fantasy, god knows why he can't macro)
It's like when people still say RET IS THE KIND OF DRONES, despite that droning is a fundamental zerg mechanic that anybody can do (and just about every korean zerg does better than him). It's just a historical rep that people don't let go, and pretend X player is better at something than most other players
But why is Bomber consistently more ahead of zerg opponents than most other terrans? His supply leads don't just show up out of nowhere, yet few players manage the same. And on another note, Rets nickname comes from his tendency to overdrone, at least in the past he'd sometimes go up to a 110 drones - that's where it's from
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4713 Posts
While people really like to harp on about how SC2 is an "easier" game and has a "lower" skill ceiling you still see a very substantial difference between Korean Terrans and regular Terrans in terms of macro and especially at the very highest level between even among Koreans.
You can count on one hand the number of Koreans that can macro well, so consistently while also doing everything else, micro, multi-tasking etc.
And Bomber is definitely among them, he was one of the first, the original macro monsters and to this day, despite very mechanically apt players switching to SC2 in the form of Flash and Innovation, his macro still seems to be somehow a cut above.
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On August 27 2013 04:48 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On August 27 2013 04:38 Zenbrez wrote:
People say Bomber is impecably amazing macro because that rep was given to him when he started going to MLGs in 2011. These days, despite what people admit, a ton of korean terrans are just as good as eachother when it comes to macro. It's just not that difficult in sc2 (lets not talk about Fantasy, god knows why he can't macro)
It's like when people still say RET IS THE KIND OF DRONES, despite that droning is a fundamental zerg mechanic that anybody can do (and just about every korean zerg does better than him). It's just a historical rep that people don't let go, and pretend X player is better at something than most other players But why is Bomber consistently more ahead of zerg opponents than most other terrans? His supply leads don't just show up out of nowhere, yet few players manage the same. And on another note, Rets nickname comes from his tendency to overdrone, at least in the past he'd sometimes go up to a 110 drones - that's where it's from
Most korean terran have a supply lead vs zergs.
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SC2 is a much more mechanically demanding game than people might imagine.
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Russian Federation40190 Posts
On August 27 2013 05:50 Incognoto wrote:
SC2 is a much more mechanically demanding game than people might imagine.
Automaton 2000 confirms.
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EPT
