EPT[WCS] Day 3 Season 2 Grand Finals 2013 - Page 314
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wdpir32k3
United States52 Posts
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Muffloe
Sweden6061 Posts
On August 27 2013 06:12 wdpir32k3 wrote: Happy to see bomber to win big fan And here I was thinking he got a trophy and money huehuehue | ||
Zealously
East Gorteau22261 Posts
On August 27 2013 05:50 Zenbrez wrote: Most korean terran have a supply lead vs zergs. You're not reading what I'm saying; Bomber is consistently more ahead. Why? Because his macro is better. SC2 macro isn't all autopilot ezmode, it is possible to distinguish oneself through great macro - Bomber does this. Watch all his games this tournament and tell me no. | ||
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AngrySalmon
United Kingdom19 Posts
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DBS
515 Posts
On August 26 2013 20:08 Emzeeshady wrote: I think he is an amazing player that lacks patience/game sense. More then once he tried to move into Bomber's tanks or make a large drop/move out that seemed completely rushed. If he was more patient and planned out everything he was going to do I think he could make the next step from good to top 5 in the world good. He isn't the perfect terran, but he is not a generic one either. He actually reached his peak at a time when zerg was dominant, not other terrans. He is impatient, but he also is very good in other ways. He did almost beat bomber and he beat innovation in one of the best games of the year | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17683 Posts
yea, it's weird that people say SC2 has a low skill cap when Automaton 2000 does things no pro can do. If a pro had extra APM then they would start doing things like that. Clearly no one has hit the skill cap yet. | ||
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Umpteen
United Kingdom1570 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17683 Posts
On August 27 2013 07:13 Emzeeshady wrote: Don't look at supply as a meter of how well a player is macroing. Look at how many resources they have. Supply will fluctuate depending on the build/strategy the player is going for. Bomber used more aggressive strategies where he skipped the 4th CC and got late upgrades in favour of more production therefore his supply will be very high. Looking at unspent resources doesn't work either because you could build a few extra raxes and more easily keep your money low but it wouldn't be as efficient as having the exact amount of production you need. edit: Also queuing will keep your unspent resources low but it's not optimal either. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On August 27 2013 06:42 Zealously wrote: You're not reading what I'm saying; Bomber is consistently more ahead. Why? Because his macro is better. SC2 macro isn't all autopilot ezmode, it is possible to distinguish oneself through great macro - Bomber does this. Watch all his games this tournament and tell me no. I do watch, and I do pay particular attention to this. I just don't agree. I'm not saying it's lolez, but it's not so difficult that Bomber is better than lets say, the top 3-5 terrans (depends if you consider him to be in the top 3 or 5). We're not going to convince eachother, so we can just leave it at that | ||
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negativedge
4279 Posts
On August 26 2013 20:17 Emzeeshady wrote: I can't imagine how frustrating being an MKP fan is. He gets into huge leads with great play, he has the ability to out macro/micro anyone and then throws it all away making the stupidest decisions possible  that's always been MKP's problem. god tier micro and macro, Code Z level decision making and game sense | ||
Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
On August 27 2013 08:57 negativedge wrote: that's always been MKP's problem. god tier micro and macro, Code Z level decision making and game sense Code Z level bunker salvaging TT | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10131 Posts
On August 27 2013 07:24 Zenbrez wrote: I do watch, and I do pay particular attention to this. I just don't agree. I'm not saying it's lolez, but it's not so difficult that Bomber is better than lets say, the top 3-5 terrans (depends if you consider him to be in the top 3 or 5). We're not going to convince eachother, so we can just leave it at that The best way to see this is on mirror match ups mostly if you don't have the knowledge for build "supply tressholds" at give times. Yeah, MKP always had beastly macro, and to be fair, i really thought he would love and be successful with the new tvz metagame. | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On August 27 2013 08:57 negativedge wrote: that's always been MKP's problem. god tier micro and macro, Code Z level decision making and game sense Bomber was like this for the longest time (minus the god tier micro). If MKP can buckle down and maintain Code B level decision-making, I'm sure he can climb out of the hellish pit that he's currently wallowing in. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On August 27 2013 06:42 Zealously wrote: You're not reading what I'm saying; Bomber is consistently more ahead. Why? Because his macro is better. SC2 macro isn't all autopilot ezmode, it is possible to distinguish oneself through great macro - Bomber does this. Watch all his games this tournament and tell me no. Bomber consistently delays his 4th base and drops a hell of a lot more mules then other players. Tbh I don't know why so many terrans don't drop as many mules as bomber does. Saving up like 4 scans is kind of pointless if you can get another 20 marines out most of the time. | ||
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Rollora
2450 Posts
Or asked the other way around: I still call the game balanced by myself (on Korean Ladder/GSL/highest skill level) but besides that, why is there still a race discussion? #1 everyone below Korean GM League doesn't know the game, obvsly #2 just by observing... ok some guys know the tactics and strategy behind the game... so I am sorry for #1 but... #3 knowing the game, and pulling it off are different things. #4 there were always the time where 1 race was called OP, but still we never knew if it really was OP... As a former main Terran I know, terran early game can clearly be abused, but still - isn't it time to be shown yet, that protoss and zerg are harder to win with (well the statement T is OP says it) than terran - or again, other way around: when will there be a Terran upset`? I mean: we have seen several Zerg (Stephaon, Scarlett etc) and Protoss (Naniwa, Grubby...) foreign Gamers... but no foreign Gamer seems to be capable of really know how to use the OP Race (Terran)? As a NON pro, and as one who always hears the whine of so many players ( I play RANDOM, and just to be honest till a CERTAIN SKILL LEVEL (lets say Diamond, Masters) there are easy races, and less easier races) I just ask for a honest opinion (although I might never get one): Why, if Terran is considered OP, are we never going to see a foreigner terran "upset" someone? And just keep whining, of MMM (don't mention Mines, Tanks, Marines...)or whatever, still, on the higher, maybe not highest skill-level the question maintains... I mean is the same: if T is so "easy" and OP, why don't EVEN foreigners succeed with it? Foreigners being unsuccessfull with T is the ultimate prove it isn't OP (not saying it is UP, but still, i hate the useless flame towards the terran race, as I am playing it since 2010 (random) and saw... it's not OP at all...) | ||
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Rollora
2450 Posts
On August 27 2013 07:04 Umpteen wrote: After watching Scarlett, I have new hope for SC2. Creep spread, macro, AND dealing with widow mines? Coming back from behind in ZVT?? Fuck yes. Also, Bomber deserved winner of that series. And the championship. When you are put in a league, and really know every race, it is really not hard to come back as Zerg besides you are Masters or even GM: if the opponent lets you breath for at least a few seconds, rebuild mass drones, rest is easy. There was always some room for much more multitasking for Zerg - it just wasn't required to win yet till now. Now, at the beginning of HOTS, Zerg again have to adapt - and they will, because there are still tons of ways to improve (perfect injects, creep spreads, macro, or... maybye finally start to micro... I mean focus on some units instead of A-move, finally use Infestors (fungal) more- not as a kill move just to add something to your army- etc etc) On the other hand, at this stage of HOTS: Terran again have the strongest early till mid-game options, to be honest. Not the Options itself are OP, but it is just hard to predict - that makes it so "unfair" for leagues from Bronze to Plat. But what does Terran have if they don't make damage in early/mid game? ok MMM hahaha. No really... oh nothing? Not all races need a Tier 3 but it would be fine to really have an opportunity if you are not ahead as terran... oh I forgot they have battlecruisers  | ||
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
On August 27 2013 10:45 Rollora wrote: still, 314 pages later, no one could explain me, why no foreigner has ever achieved something as TERRAN, even in WOL, altough it is called an OP race? Or asked the other way around: I still call the game balanced by myself (on Korean Ladder/GSL/highest skill level) but besides that, why is there still a race discussion? #1 everyone below Korean GM League doesn't know the game, obvsly #2 just by observing... ok some guys know the tactics and strategy behind the game... so I am sorry for #1 but... #3 knowing the game, and pulling it off are different things. #4 there were always the time where 1 race was called OP, but still we never knew if it really was OP... As a former main Terran I know, terran early game can clearly be abused, but still - isn't it time to be shown yet, that protoss and zerg are harder to win with (well the statement T is OP says it) than terran - or again, other way around: when will there be a Terran upset`? I mean: we have seen several Zerg (Stephaon, Scarlett etc) and Protoss (Naniwa, Grubby...) foreign Gamers... but no foreign Gamer seems to be capable of really know how to use the OP Race (Terran)? As a NON pro, and as one who always hears the whine of so many players ( I play RANDOM, and just to be honest till a CERTAIN SKILL LEVEL (lets say Diamond, Masters) there are easy races, and less easier races) I just ask for a honest opinion (although I might never get one): Why, if Terran is considered OP, are we never going to see a foreigner terran "upset" someone? And just keep whining, of MMM (don't mention Mines, Tanks, Marines...)or whatever, still, on the higher, maybe not highest skill-level the question maintains... I mean is the same: if T is so "easy" and OP, why don't EVEN foreigners succeed with it? Foreigners being unsuccessfull with T is the ultimate prove it isn't OP (not saying it is UP, but still, i hate the useless flame towards the terran race, as I am playing it since 2010 (random) and saw... it's not OP at all...) MorroW Reapers? Yes, it was a long time ago and it was IEM or whatever. I guess you could draw parallels to BW Terran.. As in back in BW people would give you the generic answer of Protoss easy to learn at low level; whereas Terran, pretty fucking hard. At the Pro Level that would sort of be spun around because with Protoss getting your timings and microing you army becomes so fucking important especially against really good players. Terran was just fucking hard to master in Brood War regardless. There's just not enough foreigners who play Terran at a very high level. Terran in BW had stupid high mechanics. SC2 you need to be on top of the ball. SC2 is very unforgiving. Terran have a lot of tools man. Anyway, I see a lot of stupid mistakes from the foreign players so it really should come as no surprise when one big mistake will cost you the game. | ||
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usethis2
2164 Posts
On August 27 2013 10:45 Rollora wrote: -snip- You might as well wonder why foreigners haven't won the GSL yet. What a refreshingly mind-numbing gaff. | ||
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