[WCS] Day 3 Season 2 Grand Finals 2013 - Page 315

On August 27 2013 06:45 AngrySalmon wrote:
looks like protoss needs another buff.. stupid terran hasnt been nerfed enough

On August 27 2013 10:45 Rollora wrote:
still, 314 pages later, no one could explain me, why no foreigner has ever achieved something as TERRAN, even in WOL, altough it is called an OP race?
Or asked the other way around: I still call the game balanced by myself (on Korean Ladder/GSL/highest skill level) but besides that, why is there still a race discussion?
#1 everyone below Korean GM League doesn't know the game, obvsly
#2 just by observing... ok some guys know the tactics and strategy behind the game... so I am sorry for #1 but...
#3 knowing the game, and pulling it off are different things.
#4 there were always the time where 1 race was called OP, but still we never knew if it really was OP...
As a former main Terran I know, terran early game can clearly be abused, but still - isn't it time to be shown yet, that protoss and zerg are harder to win with (well the statement T is OP says it) than terran - or again, other way around: when will there be a Terran upset`?
I mean: we have seen several Zerg (Stephaon, Scarlett etc) and Protoss (Naniwa, Grubby...) foreign Gamers... but no foreign Gamer seems to be capable of really know how to use the OP Race (Terran)?
As a NON pro, and as one who always hears the whine of so many players ( I play RANDOM, and just to be honest till a CERTAIN SKILL LEVEL (lets say Diamond, Masters) there are easy races, and less easier races) I just ask for a honest opinion (although I might never get one):
Why, if Terran is considered OP, are we never going to see a foreigner terran "upset" someone?

And just keep whining, of MMM (don't mention Mines, Tanks, Marines...)or whatever, still, on the higher, maybe not highest skill-level the question maintains... I mean is the same: if T is so "easy" and OP, why don't EVEN foreigners succeed with it?

Foreigners being unsuccessfull with T is the ultimate prove it isn't OP


(not saying it is UP, but still, i hate the useless flame towards the terran race, as I am playing it since 2010 (random) and saw... it's not OP at all...)

On August 27 2013 17:25 SAFenix wrote:
Indeed, the high skill cap of Terran is what makes it "OP" at the top level. The opposite for Protoss also happens to be the reason why, although at a lower level, Protoss is considered strong right now but no true dominant top tier Protoss has emerged, I would argue EVER, in Starcraft 2. Rain was the closest we had to a long-running top 3 Protoss but his inability to perform in high-level situations (Proleague playoffs, OSL Season 2 Finals, Ro8 WCS Season 2 Finals) is what stops him from becoming a multi-champion like say, MVP, NesTea, and MMA.

And yes MC won two GSL's but that was when the game was young and nobody understood how anything worked.

On August 27 2013 17:25 SAFenix wrote:
Indeed, the high skill cap of Terran is what makes it "OP" at the top level. The opposite for Protoss also happens to be the reason why, although at a lower level, Protoss is considered strong right now but no true dominant top tier Protoss has emerged, I would argue EVER, in Starcraft 2. Rain was the closest we had to a long-running top 3 Protoss but his inability to perform in high-level situations (Proleague playoffs, OSL Season 2 Finals, Ro8 WCS Season 2 Finals) is what stops him from becoming a multi-champion like say, MVP, NesTea, and MMA.

And yes MC won two GSL's but that was when the game was young and nobody understood how anything worked.

On August 27 2013 13:39 AxionSteel wrote:


It is OP against zerg at the moment, that's for sure.

I would've thought it was obvious by now. Terran is really hard to play, but also has the highest skill ceiling in sc2. It's very demanding with multitasking, macro and micro, and all the top foreign terrans have at least 1 major flaw that prevent them from playing terran to the best of its ability. LucifroN is the closest, but even he has some major flaws that are rather obvious to see. He doesn't respond well to harass very well and sometimes fails hard vs cheese for example.

On August 27 2013 16:43 Incognoto wrote:
Playing Terran at a really high level is actually really, really hard. I would argue they have a really high skill ceiling. Regardless, Terran players who win shit deserve their wins.

On August 27 2013 17:25 SAFenix wrote:
Indeed, the high skill cap of Terran is what makes it "OP" at the top level. The opposite for Protoss also happens to be the reason why, although at a lower level, Protoss is considered strong right now but no true dominant top tier Protoss has emerged, I would argue EVER, in Starcraft 2. Rain was the closest we had to a long-running top 3 Protoss but his inability to perform in high-level situations (Proleague playoffs, OSL Season 2 Finals, Ro8 WCS Season 2 Finals) is what stops him from becoming a multi-champion like say, MVP, NesTea, and MMA.

And yes MC won two GSL's but that was when the game was young and nobody understood how anything worked.

On August 27 2013 18:39 Rollora wrote:

Haha I like your last sentence :D
Although to win something as terran you have to be Korean Code S Level

On August 27 2013 19:09 Muffloe wrote:
Bomber has been THE macro terran since his big outbreak. And people have joked around about that he is inconsistent, but he has always been consistent in his macro. I dont even see how this is arguable tbh :/

On August 27 2013 13:39 AxionSteel wrote:


It is OP against zerg at the moment, that's for sure.

I would've thought it was obvious by now. Terran is really hard to play, but also has the highest skill ceiling in sc2. It's very demanding with multitasking, macro and micro.

On August 27 2013 17:52 lichter wrote:


The 'skill cap' argument is a flawed one. There is no realistically achievable skill ceiling in Starcraft.

The skill ceiling is when each unit is micro'd to perfect efficiency, there are 0 timing errors, and scouting is as perfect as possible.

There will always be more to do and more to do more efficiently. The 'skill cap' has nothing to do with winning at the highest level. Yes terrans have a higher theoretical skill ceiling (due to the use of lower supply units throughout the game), but none of the racial ceilings are achievable.

On August 27 2013 20:14 ZenithM wrote:

But it's not unreasonable to think that you can obtain more when flirting with the skill ceiling of Terran than with playing either Protoss or Zerg.

On August 27 2013 20:44 ZenithM wrote:
I think we should have a reasonable definition of what skill ceiling is :D. Nobody will go to Automaton 2000 level of marine splitting so it's not really relevant to talk about it.
Skill ceiling is not reached yet, indeed, but I don't expect people to become much better mechanically than they are right now.