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On August 08 2013 09:05 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:03 BigFan wrote:On August 08 2013 08:54 Yonnua wrote:On August 08 2013 08:51 BigFan wrote:On August 08 2013 08:49 Tachion wrote:
dumbest build in all of starcraft imo. forcefielding you out of your main is uggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i hate it so much. ya, I agree. I hate ff especially for this although it doesn't help that it removes micro lol It doesn't remove micro... It forces more micro. It forces players to pull back, reposition, move around them, force them out, and on the other side, cut off unit groups of perfect sizes, block off pathways on certain sides. It doesn't remove micro in any way. "lol" Scenario 1: You move in with your marines, protoss ff's behind your army, you can't do anything but eat the damage. Scenario 2: You move your army around as zerg, protoss manages to get to your ramp and ff's it. You lose your exp then main. It's kinda like the old fungal where once you're hit with it, you can't do anything to escape it. The only micro it can promote is for the protoss to try and hit the correct ff. The opponent tries to bait them out but that's as far as the micro can go. The only way to counter it is to use burrow for roaches only or try to pick up your units with medivacs. That's what I think at least. No point in discussing it here. Or to walk around the forcefields? Watch Scenario 1 play out in a pro game. The terran will stim and run his bio around the forcefields. Watch scenario 2 in a pro game. The zerg forces out forcefields, dodges them, pulls back when they can't surround and attacks when they can. Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:05 bo1b wrote:On August 08 2013 09:02 Yonnua wrote:On August 08 2013 09:01 forsooth wrote:On August 08 2013 08:54 Yonnua wrote:On August 08 2013 08:51 BigFan wrote:On August 08 2013 08:49 Tachion wrote:
dumbest build in all of starcraft imo. forcefielding you out of your main is uggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i hate it so much. ya, I agree. I hate ff especially for this although it doesn't help that it removes micro lol It doesn't remove micro... It forces more micro. It forces players to pull back, reposition, move around them, force them out, and on the other side, cut off unit groups of perfect sizes, block off pathways on certain sides. It doesn't remove micro in any way. "lol" Creating magic walls that prevent your opponent from moving their units around in the way they intend to is pretty much the definition of removing micro. Umm, no? Respond to any of the things I said. If you're complaining about the bad pathing, that just makes you need to micro more. It isn't removing micro, it's providing new opportunities to micro. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't take micro and it can't be microed against. Forcefields don't remove micro is something only a protoss could say I don't play protoss, I just understand the game.
I don't remember a time in when a person thought forcefields create micro. I remember some player having a huge explanation why he thought forcefields suck. If i remember right it was morrow, basically it is pretty much never the zerg feeling like they microed the situation right, its just the feeling that the protoss messed up.
Forcefields just slap so many options down like flanks/walls/spreads its just cutting into all the fights making the blobfest even worse.
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Scarlett (top left) vs. Macsed (bottom right) on Bel'Shir Vestige. Scarlett getting pool first. Macsed with same gateway opening with two assimilators.
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Go Macsed!!!!
China fighting~
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On August 08 2013 09:10 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:10 garbanzo wrote:On August 08 2013 09:09 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 08 2013 09:08 garbanzo wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 IntoTheheart wrote:
Do any good PvZ/ZvP players wanna commentate on what would've happened if MacSed pushed into the 3rd instead of meander around the nat? I think he had a chance at one point, but it would have been very close. He might have been able to snipe the third at the cost of losing his entire army. But (if he didn't lose the MSC) do you think that he would've been able to teleport out, or did he just burn too much with that Time Warp? He already burned all the energy on the msc with the two time warps, so there was no recall. So it was dead weight. Would you have saved the recall and sniped the third? That's what I would've done in that position, but I'm not sure if it was the optimal move.
I don't think taking out the third was enough of a damage considering the commitment he made into the all-in. The time warps were used to push his advantage into killing Scarlett outright. You can aim for a third snipe with slightly less commitment than Macsed put into it.
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On August 08 2013 09:14 garbanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:10 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 08 2013 09:10 garbanzo wrote:On August 08 2013 09:09 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 08 2013 09:08 garbanzo wrote:On August 08 2013 09:07 IntoTheheart wrote:
Do any good PvZ/ZvP players wanna commentate on what would've happened if MacSed pushed into the 3rd instead of meander around the nat? I think he had a chance at one point, but it would have been very close. He might have been able to snipe the third at the cost of losing his entire army. But (if he didn't lose the MSC) do you think that he would've been able to teleport out, or did he just burn too much with that Time Warp? He already burned all the energy on the msc with the two time warps, so there was no recall. So it was dead weight. Would you have saved the recall and sniped the third? That's what I would've done in that position, but I'm not sure if it was the optimal move. I don't think taking out the third was enough of a damage considering the commitment he made into the all-in. The time warps were used to push his advantage into killing Scarlett outright. You can aim for a third snipe with slightly less commitment than Macsed put into it.
Aah okay. So when he got pushed back there was basically no way that he could finish it off.
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On August 08 2013 09:12 garbanzo wrote:
Scarlett (top left) vs. Macsed (bottom right) on Bel'Shir Vestige. Scarlett getting pool first. Macsed with same gateway opening with two assimilators.
Macsed takes his natural with a stargate and 2 more gateways. Scarlett scouts the stargate with a ling and continues droning while getting double evo chambers.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On August 08 2013 09:05 Yonnua wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:03 BigFan wrote:On August 08 2013 08:54 Yonnua wrote:On August 08 2013 08:51 BigFan wrote:On August 08 2013 08:49 Tachion wrote:
dumbest build in all of starcraft imo. forcefielding you out of your main is uggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i hate it so much. ya, I agree. I hate ff especially for this although it doesn't help that it removes micro lol It doesn't remove micro... It forces more micro. It forces players to pull back, reposition, move around them, force them out, and on the other side, cut off unit groups of perfect sizes, block off pathways on certain sides. It doesn't remove micro in any way. "lol" Scenario 1: You move in with your marines, protoss ff's behind your army, you can't do anything but eat the damage. Scenario 2: You move your army around as zerg, protoss manages to get to your ramp and ff's it. You lose your exp then main. It's kinda like the old fungal where once you're hit with it, you can't do anything to escape it. The only micro it can promote is for the protoss to try and hit the correct ff. The opponent tries to bait them out but that's as far as the micro can go. The only way to counter it is to use burrow for roaches only or try to pick up your units with medivacs. That's what I think at least. No point in discussing it here. Or to walk around the forcefields? Watch Scenario 1 play out in a pro game. The terran will stim and run his bio around the forcefields. Watch scenario 2 in a pro game. The zerg forces out forcefields, dodges them, pulls back when they can't surround and attacks when they can.
you're adding human error into this. In an ideal scenario(no mistakes), ffs are pretty much impossible to micro against aside from what I previously mentioned(you need to research burrow/drops and have medivacs). Look at Naniwa against Tefel today. Mass VRs+sentries against hydras. He cut the army in half with the hydras in the front not being able to do anything but engage or run around in some cases lol. I'm not saying it's a good example and that players make no mistakes but game shows my point.
How many games have we see an opponent try to bait them only to get caught and lose their whole army? I've watched enough pro games to last me a lifetime and that's what I think. Infact, just yesterday, I played a PvZ on Neo Planet S. I went for wrap prism harass. Managed to do major eco damage while my opponent was taking out my exp as I retreated to my main. Seeing as how I didn't have much of an army at home, I wrapped in sentries and constantly forcefielded while making colossi. Result? My opponent had no base left and wouldn't have been able to get into my main ever since he had no drops or burrow eventually he gg'd with 50+ supply army just dancing outside my base.
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I think that Scarlett's either:
1) playing safer this game
2) all-ining since she still doesn't have her 3rd up.
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scarlett should nydus swarmhost
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She's playing smart, already has the spores up.
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I dont care if ff increase micro or not.
I do know that there isn't any other spell (except WOL fungal) that makes me feel more powerless. Any early gateway push with sentries against zerg is just infuriating to watch for me.
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GOGO Scarlett!
+ Show Spoiler +Okay, I've got to go take care of something. Terry is not allowed to comedically mangle my name while I'm gone again.
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On August 08 2013 09:14 garbanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:12 garbanzo wrote:
Scarlett (top left) vs. Macsed (bottom right) on Bel'Shir Vestige. Scarlett getting pool first. Macsed with same gateway opening with two assimilators. Macsed takes his natural with a stargate and 2 more gateways. Scarlett scouts the stargate with a ling and continues droning while getting double evo chambers.
Scarlett gets +1 melee and carapace while getting her lair. Macsed gets phoenices and cleans up the overlords. Macsed tries to harass with the phoenices, but Scarlett has enough spore crawlers and queens. Scarlett gets her infestation pit. Macsed drops 3 more gateways.
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how is macseed ahead is supply?
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does macsed know that he can have more than 2 bases?
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Macsed plz make some immortals
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ah, early hive. interesting
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On August 08 2013 09:05 Yonnua wrote:
I don't play protoss, I just understand the game.
Thank god for that, wouldn't want you to be talking out your ass
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On August 08 2013 09:17 garbanzo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 09:14 garbanzo wrote:On August 08 2013 09:12 garbanzo wrote:
Scarlett (top left) vs. Macsed (bottom right) on Bel'Shir Vestige. Scarlett getting pool first. Macsed with same gateway opening with two assimilators. Macsed takes his natural with a stargate and 2 more gateways. Scarlett scouts the stargate with a ling and continues droning while getting double evo chambers. Scarlett gets +1 melee and carapace while getting her lair. Macsed gets phoenices and cleans up the overlords. Macsed tries to harass with the phoenices, but Scarlett has enough spore crawlers and queens. Scarlett gets her infestation pit. Macsed drops 3 more gateways.
Scarlett gets pathogen gland, a hive, her third, and +2/+2. Macsed is pushing out with his 8 gate (he adds one more). Scarlett gives up the third and turtles in her natural.
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EPT
