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These should be an interesting set of games.hoping MMA can show some good form
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MMA is not good as he was but he is pretty strong since one month.
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I'm so glad Acer have droped those disgusting lime green polo shirts, these actually look like something you could wear in public.
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Dat Russian Federal Space Agency keyboard.
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On August 08 2013 02:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 02:14 Waise wrote:On August 08 2013 02:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 08 2013 02:10 Waise wrote:On August 08 2013 02:09 The_Templar wrote:On August 08 2013 02:08 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On August 08 2013 02:02 Panozen wrote:On August 08 2013 02:00 Lysanias wrote:On August 08 2013 01:59 Exarl25 wrote:On August 08 2013 01:57 Gojira621 wrote:
naniwa made voids every single game and tefel whines balance despite the fact that he didnt make a single infestor or corruptors. what a joke You don't make Corruptors in that situation. This isn't WoL, Void Rays hard counter Corruptors. You need an overwhelming number to beat out VRs and against 3 SGs you aren't likely to get that. Wich is amusing and horribly wrong balanced, An anti air unit losing to a allround unit. Do Corruptors actually beat anything air straight up? (not counting Msc/Oracle etc) Your army of corrupters can beat a smaller army of corrupters from your enemy! I think you just figured out the metagame. if i saw a corruptor in zvz i would probably get so confused that i would have to quit and go splash cold water on my face It happens super lategame i honestly can't remember the last time i played or saw a zvz go to hive tech You probably want to be happy about that, those games are not pretty Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 02:15 DidYuhim wrote:On August 08 2013 02:14 Waise wrote:On August 08 2013 02:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 08 2013 02:10 Waise wrote:On August 08 2013 02:09 The_Templar wrote:On August 08 2013 02:08 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On August 08 2013 02:02 Panozen wrote:On August 08 2013 02:00 Lysanias wrote:On August 08 2013 01:59 Exarl25 wrote:
[quote]
You don't make Corruptors in that situation. This isn't WoL, Void Rays hard counter Corruptors. You need an overwhelming number to beat out VRs and against 3 SGs you aren't likely to get that. Wich is amusing and horribly wrong balanced, An anti air unit losing to a allround unit. Do Corruptors actually beat anything air straight up? (not counting Msc/Oracle etc) Your army of corrupters can beat a smaller army of corrupters from your enemy! I think you just figured out the metagame. if i saw a corruptor in zvz i would probably get so confused that i would have to quit and go splash cold water on my face It happens super lategame i honestly can't remember the last time i played or saw a zvz go to hive tech Symbol vs RorO. ... is the best example for that.
There was also that game with Life against Scarlett in RSL.
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On August 08 2013 02:16 Panozen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 02:12 Waise wrote:On August 08 2013 02:11 Left hand wrote:On August 08 2013 02:00 NovaMB wrote:On August 08 2013 01:58 arterian wrote:
Naniwa with the F Bomb Only a north american would care about that to be honest Only Europeans would make such a big deal about how big of a deal F bombs are in America.  Seriously, more than ten of you guys have already commented on how much Europe doesn't care about cursing. Think it's enough? people say it because it's true... we don't have a secret club where we plan to all post it at the same time Not that I don't agree, but ''people say it because it's true'' is a bit of a weird analogy. ''People'' also say Black people are inferior to white people, which obv isn't true.
what?? i think you misunderstood me... the person i quoted was complaining that too many people said the same thing... i was just saying that we all had the same opinion and posted it separately from each other
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On August 08 2013 02:18 DidYuhim wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 02:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 08 2013 02:14 Waise wrote:On August 08 2013 02:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 08 2013 02:10 Waise wrote:On August 08 2013 02:09 The_Templar wrote:On August 08 2013 02:08 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On August 08 2013 02:02 Panozen wrote:On August 08 2013 02:00 Lysanias wrote:On August 08 2013 01:59 Exarl25 wrote:
[quote]
You don't make Corruptors in that situation. This isn't WoL, Void Rays hard counter Corruptors. You need an overwhelming number to beat out VRs and against 3 SGs you aren't likely to get that. Wich is amusing and horribly wrong balanced, An anti air unit losing to a allround unit. Do Corruptors actually beat anything air straight up? (not counting Msc/Oracle etc) Your army of corrupters can beat a smaller army of corrupters from your enemy! I think you just figured out the metagame. if i saw a corruptor in zvz i would probably get so confused that i would have to quit and go splash cold water on my face It happens super lategame i honestly can't remember the last time i played or saw a zvz go to hive tech You probably want to be happy about that, those games are not pretty On August 08 2013 02:15 DidYuhim wrote:On August 08 2013 02:14 Waise wrote:On August 08 2013 02:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:On August 08 2013 02:10 Waise wrote:On August 08 2013 02:09 The_Templar wrote:On August 08 2013 02:08 Kleinmuuhg wrote:On August 08 2013 02:02 Panozen wrote:On August 08 2013 02:00 Lysanias wrote:
[quote]
Wich is amusing and horribly wrong balanced, An anti air unit losing to a allround unit. Do Corruptors actually beat anything air straight up? (not counting Msc/Oracle etc) Your army of corrupters can beat a smaller army of corrupters from your enemy! I think you just figured out the metagame. if i saw a corruptor in zvz i would probably get so confused that i would have to quit and go splash cold water on my face It happens super lategame i honestly can't remember the last time i played or saw a zvz go to hive tech Symbol vs RorO. ... is the best example for that. There was also that game with Life against Scarlett in RSL.
that never happened.
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^Yes, but Waise, you (and others) don't speak for everyone, so saying "We all had the same opinion isn't accurate for ALL Europeans, which is how you act on the matter.
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On August 08 2013 02:10 Fyzar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 02:08 Cinim wrote:On August 08 2013 02:03 Daralii wrote:On August 08 2013 02:00 Cinim wrote:
Well, you cant blame that all on voidrays, but anyone has to be an outright fool to not agree with the fact that voidrays are really strong.
They aren't just strong because of more damage since WoL, but because of the fact that voidrays are currently the only air units that don't require any micro skills whatsoever, making them insanely easy to use. Naniwa had DECENT force fields, but nothing that impressive honestly, especially considering that he only had to micro the sentries.
Naniwa didn't play that much better, and if voidrays were "fixed" it would certainly be a lot closer.
TL:DR
Void rays are strong, mostly because they don't require any micro. Obvious solution is to bring back flux vanes. :p It's hard for voids to require micro because they're slow air units, same as tempests or broods or corruptors or vikings or BCs. Vikings require a lot more micro, because they are created as a fragile unit that dies very easily. Corrupters, due to the units the other races have, are required to always be split quite a lot, tempest needs a lot of micro due to being so expensive, and to utilize their long range. Broods requires you to micro really well with other units to support them. BCs might be the same, they probably need some changes as well. What's the difference in corruptors having to split and vrs having to split? Just building the damn infestors .
ZvP for example, there is way more aoe dmg on the protoss side than Z, fungal growth is a very low dmg ability. If you get the perfect fungal, and somehow the P is stupid enough to not counter the infestors to avoid a full lock-down then sure. But if you don't split corrupters they maybe die in just a matter of seconds to storm, archons, stalkers and such.
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your Country52797 Posts
Map: Newkirk Precinct
MMA spawns in the bottom left
Happy spawns in the bottom right
1:00
MMA getting a gas before barracks while Happy opening barracks first.
2:00
Nothing much happens.
3:00
MMA getting a factory.
Happy building a reaper but cancels it and gets a reactor instead.
Happy also builds a factory.
4:00
Second gas for MMA.
Starport for MMA.
CC for Happy.
MMA gets a tech lab on the factory which he puts the starport on.
5:00
MMA getting banshee + cloak.
Happy getting an engineering bay and a hellion.
MMA getting a widow mine as well and a reactor on his barracks.
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On August 08 2013 02:16 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 02:13 Thallis wrote:On August 08 2013 02:10 Big J wrote:On August 08 2013 02:06 Nebuchad wrote:On August 08 2013 02:05 Big J wrote:On August 08 2013 02:02 Zenbrez wrote:On August 08 2013 01:59 Big J wrote:On August 08 2013 01:56 DJHelium wrote:
The best thing about the void rays is that you don't have to target fire, they will kill the hydras first anyway. As soon as you see them targeting a roach, just activate them.
I don't think Tefel is reacting to this build in a good way, infestors would at least twice as good. I think people overestimate infestors for that. Fungal has been nerfed by 10damage vs armored and infestors are really expensive in the midgame. He would get at most 10infestors instead of the 30hydras he was working with. Imo, the way to go against this style is either blindcounter the third with an allin or sit on 4bases forever with hydra/viper/swarmhost/statics. Edit: fungal is still good vs void rays, but it's not affordable to deal with them in the midgame. You underestimate it. You don't need 10 infestors. You only use them for fungal, ITs are useless. Voidrays stack a loooot - sure he could split them, but lets be honest, nobody really does. Even having just 2 infestors, pinning them and dealing 50-60 dmg (since people generally overlap the fungals) to ALL of them is hugely significant. A pure hydra army won't do the job I don't think you should base your strategy on your opponent playing shit. Naniwa scouted a lot. Had he seen infestors, he would have surely presplit his army. That's a bit unrealistic. That's like saying, "don't ever go for templars in PvT, the terran is good, he will split his bio." Just look at the numbers... Tefel had ~30hydralisks. Now if he goes infestors as well he immidiatly misses 5 of them (infestation pit + energy upgrade) for the tech and 3 for each infestor he builds due to the gas being the limiting factor. The remaining army will be mostly zerglings with 10 hydras and 5 infestors. That's simply not enough. You don't have to be split perfectly, just having an arc in which not more than 5 voidrays get fungaled at once (there are only 5fungals) will be enough to hold. Sure, but that assumes he stays on 3 bases and attacks with that army instead of having a good economy and attacking in open areas. well, if he doesn't attack at that timing it will be a completely different thing. Then he has to consider how to beat Protoss in the lategame when Templars and Colossi are out. Which leads me back to what I was saying. He should go 4base swarmhost turtle, because that's the only style that works against a Protoss in full force in the lategame if he has voidrays or immortals to shut down ultras.
Nani couldn't go Colo with that much of his supply tied up in void rays. He'd have to sacrifice units and have a few minutes committed to make the switch, more than enough for zerg to react. Swarm host turtle is good against just about everything, but that doesn't mean it's the only thing good against anything.
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On August 08 2013 02:19 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
^Yes, but you don't speak for everyone, so saying "We all had the same oopinion isn't accurate for ALL Europeans, which is how you act on the matter.
you are misunderstanding me, i never said anything about all europeans having the same opinion... never said anything like that at all, i said that swearing is permitted and accepted more there on average and overall, never said "everyone"
now let's stop this stupid derail...
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United States97276 Posts
This is pretty similar to ByuN vs Bang last night
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On August 08 2013 02:15 IntoTheheart wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 02:13 GaliX wrote:On August 08 2013 02:11 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 08 2013 02:10 GaliX wrote:
nobody renembers the MC game in the end of WoL with the epic carrier storm void build? Link please. I don't know when it was. I think it was the last GSL season where MC was the only Protoss left (ro16?) and showed a epic skytoss late game macro gam against Symbol or someone like that. I will search it. But I am not sure if I will find something. No worry.
could be this:
http://www.gomtv.net/2013gsls1/vod/71474/?set=8
not sure. Can't watch it.
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your Country52797 Posts
On August 08 2013 02:20 The_Templar wrote:Map: Newkirk Precinct MMA spawns in the bottom left Happy spawns in the bottom right 1:00 MMA getting a gas before barracks while Happy opening barracks first. 2:00 Nothing much happens. 3:00 MMA getting a factory. Happy building a reaper but cancels it and gets a reactor instead. Happy also builds a factory. 4:00 Second gas for MMA. Starport for MMA. CC for Happy. MMA gets a tech lab on the factory which he puts the starport on. 5:00 MMA getting banshee + cloak. Happy getting an engineering bay and a hellion. MMA getting a widow mine as well and a reactor on his barracks.
6:00  MMA 35 Happy 32
Happy getting a viking and a missile turret.
MMA getting a command center
MMA kills just one SCV.
7:00 MMA 46 Happy 46
Happy pokes with a hellion.
MMA kills a supply depot and another SCV.
8:00 MMA 48 Happy 48
Happy dropping marines into the main of MMA and killing 5 SCVS.
MMA loses the banshee.
MMA has a siege tank and is building a third command center.
9:00 MMA 47 Happy 45
Happy kills a widow mine in front of his natural.
Second banshee killing 3 workers so far.
10:00 MMA 51 Happy 51
MMA killing several more SCVs.
2 more factories for Happy.
MMA getting more barracks and Tanks.
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On August 08 2013 02:23 GaliX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 02:15 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 08 2013 02:13 GaliX wrote:On August 08 2013 02:11 IntoTheheart wrote:On August 08 2013 02:10 GaliX wrote:
nobody renembers the MC game in the end of WoL with the epic carrier storm void build? Link please. I don't know when it was. I think it was the last GSL season where MC was the only Protoss left (ro16?) and showed a epic skytoss late game macro gam against Symbol or someone like that. I will search it. But I am not sure if I will find something. No worry. could be this: http://www.gomtv.net/2013gsls1/vod/71474/?set=8not sure. Can't watch it.
Neither can I, but thanks for the effort! 
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
I REMEMBER
I will always remember that game
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On August 08 2013 02:20 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 02:19 Fuchsteufelswild wrote:
^Yes, but you don't speak for everyone, so saying "We all had the same oopinion isn't accurate for ALL Europeans, which is how you act on the matter. you are misunderstanding me, i never said anything about all europeans having the same opinion... never said anything like that at all, i said that swearing is permitted and accepted more there on average and overall, never said "everyone" now let's stop this stupid derail...
You had to quote me mere seconds before my spelling edit... XD
OK, maybe you weren't saying that, so I'm sorry, but some people on the topic were. Dropping now though.
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EPT
