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On July 03 2013 04:59 Shellshock1122 wrote:Sick 4/4 liquibets! Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 03:25 LighT. wrote:
Got too tired, decided to skip it and watch it right now.
I missed a lot of good pre-game interviews.
LOL @ Artosis, he clearly does NOT like hellbats.
Lol @ Bomber showing what he ultimately is "a player who plays like a god at times and then the very next game, plays like a diamond terran"
Lol @ TheMarine thinking First is the best eSF Protoss
Amazing display by Soulkey vs Symbol.
BByong's TvT isnt that good at all. I think most people who watch SPL shouldnt be surprised by the result well who is playing better? Best eSF protoss is probably the least solidified "title" throughout sc2.
Hurricane but of course, its all purely subjective.
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On July 02 2013 23:31 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 23:03 Qikz wrote:
Redeye, I respect your opinion about eSports more than nearly everyone else due to how experienced you are and how long you've been in the business. You're by far one of the best and only qualified people to talk about these sorts of things in a well mannered way, but what you're saying about the map pool, is that really such a bad thing?
Wouldn't it be nice if each region had their own maps made by their own nietzens/map making teams and then they all clash together in the regional finals? I can't think of anything I'd want more than for more community made maps in Europe and America be picked up for use in WCS Europe/America and less maps made by the GSL teams.
There's enough time inbetween the finals and the regional finals to give people time to practice for the other maps they've not played. This for me as a spectator gives me a lot of benefits. One, every region of WCS has different maps meaning you'll get different games in different regions, not just the same games as Korea with a lower skill level or lower control and secondly it means the regional finals are a lot more interesting rather than just WCS Korea played out again with some foreign players in it.
That sort of format with different maps for different regions also leads to map makers getting a lot more exposure and more chance of interesting maps getting to ladder. Oh god please no .. Foreign maps are to Korean maps what foreign players are to Korean players
Glad you agree with me ^_^
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On July 03 2013 06:22 malady wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:08 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 05:24 Albinoswordfish wrote:On July 03 2013 05:16 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 04:39 Albinoswordfish wrote:On July 02 2013 21:48 ReDeYe wrote:On July 02 2013 18:46 rift wrote:On July 02 2013 18:45 Kommander wrote:On July 02 2013 18:39 NicksonReyes wrote:
Sup with all the qqing?
I don't really see any problems with this Ro16 format. Khaldor's been bitching about OSL ever since the season started. Nothing new, and not surprising since he works for a competitor. Redeye also complained about the naming emphasis and how OGN puts more emphasis on the OSL brand rather than the WCS brand, but if you think about it, the OSL brand is much more established than the WCS brand. these newcomers know not of what they speak "Newcomers" - Interesting terminology to explain someone who has spent the best part of 11 years in esports at the highest level. Newcomer to StarCraft? Relatively I guess, although I've been on the fringes of SC since 2005. I'm also well aware of the history of OSL having worked with OGN since 2005 on a regular basis too, but that's not the argument here, so let me qualify some of it, which obviously can't be understood or explained properly in 140 charachters. The WCS is a global competition run by partners in each region. I understand the OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to disrespect that history, but WCS is what the entire competition is now. My issues are around wanting StarCraft to appeal to as wide an audience as possible as I fully believe those who are exposed to it, will love the players, the game and the incredible community, ultimately leading to an even larger community. To capture those however, there are many things that have to happen in order to help improve the entry for casual viewers. The key ingredients to successful esports and tournaments over the last 11 years of watching them are format and consistency. If we establish that the basic thought behind the WCS is to bring all leagues, all players and fans together under one umbrella and (despite reservations over this) we accept this as the premise, it becomes a priority to ensure that no matter who runs each region, the map pools, the rules, the format and the nomenclature used is consistent. This is the essence of the argument. Right now, the rules are inconsistent, the map pools different and the way it all plays out is intrinsically different in each region. I totally get OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to remove that, but it's time to move on. This is WCS and it's not the same as GSL (although mirrors this more closely perhaps) and it's not OSL. Not only the casual viewer is unsure about it all on a global scale right now, but it seems a lot of people who have followed SC for a long time are confused about it too and it's not surprising. Keeping heritage in esports is super important, you won't hear any argument from me on that. WCS is very special and should be given the prestige it deserves for the time, effort and money being put in by a lot of people to raise the bar for SC. I don't agree with this at all. Let's not kid ourselves GSL and OSL is the hardest and most prestigious tournament in the world. The WCS Grand finals is just for money everybody knows winning the OSL/GSL means much more. For all the history OGN have put into both the Starcraft scene they deserves to have their own name brand. The thing is ESL and NASL don't have nearly the brand name value so it's no problem for you guys to switch to "WCS" because people will recognize that much more than "ESL". Keeping tradition in sports is very important and OSL is one of the most storied tournaments in the history of E-Sports. The fact that you want to just make them change to the generic "WCS" (or quote "move on") is an insult to everything OGN/OSL has brought to the Starcraft scene in the best Starcraft country in the world. Then let OGN run an OSL that's not tied to the WCS brand and leave WCS to GOM. I don't have a problem with OGN running an OSL their way. I have a problem with them running WCS KR their way instead of the way everyone else runs it. You want that WCS KR running alongside GSL thing that happened last year? I thought that was an awful idea. Blizzard hasn't said that they have to change their brand names so I don't know why community figures are acting salty towards them just because they did. I would rather have GOM run every season of WCS KR and OGN run their OSL however they want rather than screw up the format of WCS KR because "OSL has been around forever." I don't want to watch an OSL, I want to watch WCS KR. And whatever OGN and GOM are broadcasting now is *not* WCS KR, it's an OSL. dude get over it your a gom fan boy we get it
Preferring the GSL format over the OSL format makes me a GOM fanboy. Right.
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On July 03 2013 06:25 fuzzylogic44 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:08 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 05:24 Albinoswordfish wrote:On July 03 2013 05:16 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 04:39 Albinoswordfish wrote:On July 02 2013 21:48 ReDeYe wrote:On July 02 2013 18:46 rift wrote:On July 02 2013 18:45 Kommander wrote:Khaldor's been bitching about OSL ever since the season started. Nothing new, and not surprising since he works for a competitor. Redeye also complained about the naming emphasis and how OGN puts more emphasis on the OSL brand rather than the WCS brand, but if you think about it, the OSL brand is much more established than the WCS brand. these newcomers know not of what they speak "Newcomers" - Interesting terminology to explain someone who has spent the best part of 11 years in esports at the highest level. Newcomer to StarCraft? Relatively I guess, although I've been on the fringes of SC since 2005. I'm also well aware of the history of OSL having worked with OGN since 2005 on a regular basis too, but that's not the argument here, so let me qualify some of it, which obviously can't be understood or explained properly in 140 charachters. The WCS is a global competition run by partners in each region. I understand the OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to disrespect that history, but WCS is what the entire competition is now. My issues are around wanting StarCraft to appeal to as wide an audience as possible as I fully believe those who are exposed to it, will love the players, the game and the incredible community, ultimately leading to an even larger community. To capture those however, there are many things that have to happen in order to help improve the entry for casual viewers. The key ingredients to successful esports and tournaments over the last 11 years of watching them are format and consistency. If we establish that the basic thought behind the WCS is to bring all leagues, all players and fans together under one umbrella and (despite reservations over this) we accept this as the premise, it becomes a priority to ensure that no matter who runs each region, the map pools, the rules, the format and the nomenclature used is consistent. This is the essence of the argument. Right now, the rules are inconsistent, the map pools different and the way it all plays out is intrinsically different in each region. I totally get OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to remove that, but it's time to move on. This is WCS and it's not the same as GSL (although mirrors this more closely perhaps) and it's not OSL. Not only the casual viewer is unsure about it all on a global scale right now, but it seems a lot of people who have followed SC for a long time are confused about it too and it's not surprising. Keeping heritage in esports is super important, you won't hear any argument from me on that. WCS is very special and should be given the prestige it deserves for the time, effort and money being put in by a lot of people to raise the bar for SC. I don't agree with this at all. Let's not kid ourselves GSL and OSL is the hardest and most prestigious tournament in the world. The WCS Grand finals is just for money everybody knows winning the OSL/GSL means much more. For all the history OGN have put into both the Starcraft scene they deserves to have their own name brand. The thing is ESL and NASL don't have nearly the brand name value so it's no problem for you guys to switch to "WCS" because people will recognize that much more than "ESL". Keeping tradition in sports is very important and OSL is one of the most storied tournaments in the history of E-Sports. The fact that you want to just make them change to the generic "WCS" (or quote "move on") is an insult to everything OGN/OSL has brought to the Starcraft scene in the best Starcraft country in the world. Then let OGN run an OSL that's not tied to the WCS brand and leave WCS to GOM. I don't have a problem with OGN running an OSL their way. I have a problem with them running WCS KR their way instead of the way everyone else runs it. You want that WCS KR running alongside GSL thing that happened last year? I thought that was an awful idea. Blizzard hasn't said that they have to change their brand names so I don't know why community figures are acting salty towards them just because they did. I would rather have GOM run every season of WCS KR and OGN run their OSL however they want rather than screw up the format of WCS KR because "OSL has been around forever." I don't want to watch an OSL, I want to watch WCS KR. And whatever OGN and GOM are broadcasting now is *not* WCS KR, it's an OSL. But how has the format been "screwed up"? And how is this not WCS Korea? It's not like they are doing the ro24 and seeding 4 players into ro16 like before. THAT would screw up the format. This is exactly the same structurally, it's just slightly different in how it plays out within each stage. It doesn't actually change anything important (bo1 is a different issue).
Round robin group played out over the course of 6 nights versus double elimination group played out over one night. Every other production of WCS does the latter, OSL does the former. That means OSL is not WCS KR.
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On July 03 2013 07:15 Aflixion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:22 malady wrote:On July 03 2013 06:08 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 05:24 Albinoswordfish wrote:On July 03 2013 05:16 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 04:39 Albinoswordfish wrote:On July 02 2013 21:48 ReDeYe wrote:On July 02 2013 18:46 rift wrote:On July 02 2013 18:45 Kommander wrote:Khaldor's been bitching about OSL ever since the season started. Nothing new, and not surprising since he works for a competitor. Redeye also complained about the naming emphasis and how OGN puts more emphasis on the OSL brand rather than the WCS brand, but if you think about it, the OSL brand is much more established than the WCS brand. these newcomers know not of what they speak "Newcomers" - Interesting terminology to explain someone who has spent the best part of 11 years in esports at the highest level. Newcomer to StarCraft? Relatively I guess, although I've been on the fringes of SC since 2005. I'm also well aware of the history of OSL having worked with OGN since 2005 on a regular basis too, but that's not the argument here, so let me qualify some of it, which obviously can't be understood or explained properly in 140 charachters. The WCS is a global competition run by partners in each region. I understand the OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to disrespect that history, but WCS is what the entire competition is now. My issues are around wanting StarCraft to appeal to as wide an audience as possible as I fully believe those who are exposed to it, will love the players, the game and the incredible community, ultimately leading to an even larger community. To capture those however, there are many things that have to happen in order to help improve the entry for casual viewers. The key ingredients to successful esports and tournaments over the last 11 years of watching them are format and consistency. If we establish that the basic thought behind the WCS is to bring all leagues, all players and fans together under one umbrella and (despite reservations over this) we accept this as the premise, it becomes a priority to ensure that no matter who runs each region, the map pools, the rules, the format and the nomenclature used is consistent. This is the essence of the argument. Right now, the rules are inconsistent, the map pools different and the way it all plays out is intrinsically different in each region. I totally get OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to remove that, but it's time to move on. This is WCS and it's not the same as GSL (although mirrors this more closely perhaps) and it's not OSL. Not only the casual viewer is unsure about it all on a global scale right now, but it seems a lot of people who have followed SC for a long time are confused about it too and it's not surprising. Keeping heritage in esports is super important, you won't hear any argument from me on that. WCS is very special and should be given the prestige it deserves for the time, effort and money being put in by a lot of people to raise the bar for SC. I don't agree with this at all. Let's not kid ourselves GSL and OSL is the hardest and most prestigious tournament in the world. The WCS Grand finals is just for money everybody knows winning the OSL/GSL means much more. For all the history OGN have put into both the Starcraft scene they deserves to have their own name brand. The thing is ESL and NASL don't have nearly the brand name value so it's no problem for you guys to switch to "WCS" because people will recognize that much more than "ESL". Keeping tradition in sports is very important and OSL is one of the most storied tournaments in the history of E-Sports. The fact that you want to just make them change to the generic "WCS" (or quote "move on") is an insult to everything OGN/OSL has brought to the Starcraft scene in the best Starcraft country in the world. Then let OGN run an OSL that's not tied to the WCS brand and leave WCS to GOM. I don't have a problem with OGN running an OSL their way. I have a problem with them running WCS KR their way instead of the way everyone else runs it. You want that WCS KR running alongside GSL thing that happened last year? I thought that was an awful idea. Blizzard hasn't said that they have to change their brand names so I don't know why community figures are acting salty towards them just because they did. I would rather have GOM run every season of WCS KR and OGN run their OSL however they want rather than screw up the format of WCS KR because "OSL has been around forever." I don't want to watch an OSL, I want to watch WCS KR. And whatever OGN and GOM are broadcasting now is *not* WCS KR, it's an OSL. dude get over it your a gom fan boy we get it Preferring the GSL format over the OSL format makes me a GOM fanboy. Right.
why do you prefer it?
I can name several reasons, why (if I could choose) I would go with Ro32 dual tournament Bo3 (GSL) and Ro16 round robin (OSL) for ALL of the WCS - KR/EU/NA.
Reasons being:
-the Ro32 is obvious - round robin would take too long and Bo1 has not proven to be stable enough (although, I personally don't mind it, there were almost none upsets in this Ro32 that you didn't see coming from the way games were played).
-the Ro16 - we (probably) have 16 great players, some of the best in the world. They need to show entertaining games for spectators. Format OSL is using now is the best for that, since players only prepare for 1 match, vs 1 opponent on 3 specific (preselected - that is important) maps.
-Seeing Gwangalli Beach today was incredibly refreshing and I think all of WCS should use the same map pool and they should always use the Korean one. Hopefully GOM will step it up next season, cause imo the last maps they did were all too ordinary...
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On July 03 2013 06:28 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 04:59 Shellshock1122 wrote:Sick 4/4 liquibets! On July 03 2013 03:25 LighT. wrote:
Got too tired, decided to skip it and watch it right now.
I missed a lot of good pre-game interviews.
LOL @ Artosis, he clearly does NOT like hellbats.
Lol @ Bomber showing what he ultimately is "a player who plays like a god at times and then the very next game, plays like a diamond terran"
Lol @ TheMarine thinking First is the best eSF Protoss
Amazing display by Soulkey vs Symbol.
BByong's TvT isnt that good at all. I think most people who watch SPL shouldnt be surprised by the result well who is playing better? Best eSF protoss is probably the least solidified "title" throughout sc2. Hurricane but of course, its all purely subjective.
??? tear lost 0-2 in the ro32 and looked pretty bad, First has looked good in everything he's played in including team leagues, he has an all kill in gstl and other multi kills.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 03 2013 07:24 Ammanas wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 07:15 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 06:22 malady wrote:On July 03 2013 06:08 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 05:24 Albinoswordfish wrote:On July 03 2013 05:16 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 04:39 Albinoswordfish wrote:On July 02 2013 21:48 ReDeYe wrote:On July 02 2013 18:46 rift wrote:On July 02 2013 18:45 Kommander wrote:
[quote]
Khaldor's been bitching about OSL ever since the season started. Nothing new, and not surprising since he works for a competitor. Redeye also complained about the naming emphasis and how OGN puts more emphasis on the OSL brand rather than the WCS brand, but if you think about it, the OSL brand is much more established than the WCS brand. these newcomers know not of what they speak "Newcomers" - Interesting terminology to explain someone who has spent the best part of 11 years in esports at the highest level. Newcomer to StarCraft? Relatively I guess, although I've been on the fringes of SC since 2005. I'm also well aware of the history of OSL having worked with OGN since 2005 on a regular basis too, but that's not the argument here, so let me qualify some of it, which obviously can't be understood or explained properly in 140 charachters. The WCS is a global competition run by partners in each region. I understand the OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to disrespect that history, but WCS is what the entire competition is now. My issues are around wanting StarCraft to appeal to as wide an audience as possible as I fully believe those who are exposed to it, will love the players, the game and the incredible community, ultimately leading to an even larger community. To capture those however, there are many things that have to happen in order to help improve the entry for casual viewers. The key ingredients to successful esports and tournaments over the last 11 years of watching them are format and consistency. If we establish that the basic thought behind the WCS is to bring all leagues, all players and fans together under one umbrella and (despite reservations over this) we accept this as the premise, it becomes a priority to ensure that no matter who runs each region, the map pools, the rules, the format and the nomenclature used is consistent. This is the essence of the argument. Right now, the rules are inconsistent, the map pools different and the way it all plays out is intrinsically different in each region. I totally get OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to remove that, but it's time to move on. This is WCS and it's not the same as GSL (although mirrors this more closely perhaps) and it's not OSL. Not only the casual viewer is unsure about it all on a global scale right now, but it seems a lot of people who have followed SC for a long time are confused about it too and it's not surprising. Keeping heritage in esports is super important, you won't hear any argument from me on that. WCS is very special and should be given the prestige it deserves for the time, effort and money being put in by a lot of people to raise the bar for SC. I don't agree with this at all. Let's not kid ourselves GSL and OSL is the hardest and most prestigious tournament in the world. The WCS Grand finals is just for money everybody knows winning the OSL/GSL means much more. For all the history OGN have put into both the Starcraft scene they deserves to have their own name brand. The thing is ESL and NASL don't have nearly the brand name value so it's no problem for you guys to switch to "WCS" because people will recognize that much more than "ESL". Keeping tradition in sports is very important and OSL is one of the most storied tournaments in the history of E-Sports. The fact that you want to just make them change to the generic "WCS" (or quote "move on") is an insult to everything OGN/OSL has brought to the Starcraft scene in the best Starcraft country in the world. Then let OGN run an OSL that's not tied to the WCS brand and leave WCS to GOM. I don't have a problem with OGN running an OSL their way. I have a problem with them running WCS KR their way instead of the way everyone else runs it. You want that WCS KR running alongside GSL thing that happened last year? I thought that was an awful idea. Blizzard hasn't said that they have to change their brand names so I don't know why community figures are acting salty towards them just because they did. I would rather have GOM run every season of WCS KR and OGN run their OSL however they want rather than screw up the format of WCS KR because "OSL has been around forever." I don't want to watch an OSL, I want to watch WCS KR. And whatever OGN and GOM are broadcasting now is *not* WCS KR, it's an OSL. dude get over it your a gom fan boy we get it Preferring the GSL format over the OSL format makes me a GOM fanboy. Right. why do you prefer it? I can name several reasons, why (if I could choose) I would go with Ro32 dual tournament Bo3 (GSL) and Ro16 round robin (OSL) for ALL of the WCS - KR/EU/NA. Reasons being:
-the Ro32 is obvious - round robin would take too long and Bo1 has not proven to be stable enough (although, I personally don't mind it, there were almost none upsets in this Ro32 that you didn't see coming from the way games were played).
You'd never hear the end of it from foreign pros if you had a best of one to determine whether or not they can make rent this month.
-the Ro16 - we (probably) have 16 great players, some of the best in the world. They need to show entertaining games for spectators. Format OSL is using now is the best for that, since players only prepare for 1 match, vs 1 opponent on 3 specific (preselected - that is important) maps.
This works for tournaments whose player pool lives close to each other, in the same time zone, and with easy to accommodate schedules. Imagine how bad this schedule would be for a lot of players playing in a different region. They'd have to stay there for a much longer time (more expensive, worse practice environment, possibility of missing other tournaments and commitments). Yes they took that risk in playing in a different region, but I think it is unnecessary to punish them with a more financially taxing schedule. And I am not only talking about Korean players. Imagine players from Australia, NZ, South Africa (PANDATANK), South America, and Eastern Europe. They can't as easily go to the studio to play one best of 3 every week over a month. OSL format only works for Korea because everyone lives in Korea.
-Seeing Gwangalli Beach today was incredibly refreshing and I think all of WCS should use the same map pool and they should always use the Korean one. Hopefully GOM will step it up next season, cause imo the last maps they did were all too ordinary...
I agree with this, because Gwangalli Beach is so beautiful. Although instead of just Korea getting a say in maps, I suggest that each region can nominate a map each (after thorough testing and balancing of course), and they can give it a trial during qualifiers, before being voted upon which map gets included in the season's map pool. Fairer and more diverse.
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Why did they mix all the groups? It breaks all the momentum! And that map on the beach... lol. OSL is such a failure... cant wait for GSL to come back.
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-Seeing Gwangalli Beach today was incredibly refreshing and I think all of WCS should use the same map pool and they should always use the Korean one. Hopefully GOM will step it up next season, cause imo the last maps they did were all too ordinary...
Yeah beach is refreshing. But the map was not easy to read at all. And i dont speak about balance... This is not serious for a big tourney.
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On July 03 2013 07:21 Aflixion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 06:25 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On July 03 2013 06:08 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 05:24 Albinoswordfish wrote:On July 03 2013 05:16 Aflixion wrote:On July 03 2013 04:39 Albinoswordfish wrote:On July 02 2013 21:48 ReDeYe wrote:On July 02 2013 18:46 rift wrote:On July 02 2013 18:45 Kommander wrote:Khaldor's been bitching about OSL ever since the season started. Nothing new, and not surprising since he works for a competitor. Redeye also complained about the naming emphasis and how OGN puts more emphasis on the OSL brand rather than the WCS brand, but if you think about it, the OSL brand is much more established than the WCS brand. these newcomers know not of what they speak "Newcomers" - Interesting terminology to explain someone who has spent the best part of 11 years in esports at the highest level. Newcomer to StarCraft? Relatively I guess, although I've been on the fringes of SC since 2005. I'm also well aware of the history of OSL having worked with OGN since 2005 on a regular basis too, but that's not the argument here, so let me qualify some of it, which obviously can't be understood or explained properly in 140 charachters. The WCS is a global competition run by partners in each region. I understand the OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to disrespect that history, but WCS is what the entire competition is now. My issues are around wanting StarCraft to appeal to as wide an audience as possible as I fully believe those who are exposed to it, will love the players, the game and the incredible community, ultimately leading to an even larger community. To capture those however, there are many things that have to happen in order to help improve the entry for casual viewers. The key ingredients to successful esports and tournaments over the last 11 years of watching them are format and consistency. If we establish that the basic thought behind the WCS is to bring all leagues, all players and fans together under one umbrella and (despite reservations over this) we accept this as the premise, it becomes a priority to ensure that no matter who runs each region, the map pools, the rules, the format and the nomenclature used is consistent. This is the essence of the argument. Right now, the rules are inconsistent, the map pools different and the way it all plays out is intrinsically different in each region. I totally get OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to remove that, but it's time to move on. This is WCS and it's not the same as GSL (although mirrors this more closely perhaps) and it's not OSL. Not only the casual viewer is unsure about it all on a global scale right now, but it seems a lot of people who have followed SC for a long time are confused about it too and it's not surprising. Keeping heritage in esports is super important, you won't hear any argument from me on that. WCS is very special and should be given the prestige it deserves for the time, effort and money being put in by a lot of people to raise the bar for SC. I don't agree with this at all. Let's not kid ourselves GSL and OSL is the hardest and most prestigious tournament in the world. The WCS Grand finals is just for money everybody knows winning the OSL/GSL means much more. For all the history OGN have put into both the Starcraft scene they deserves to have their own name brand. The thing is ESL and NASL don't have nearly the brand name value so it's no problem for you guys to switch to "WCS" because people will recognize that much more than "ESL". Keeping tradition in sports is very important and OSL is one of the most storied tournaments in the history of E-Sports. The fact that you want to just make them change to the generic "WCS" (or quote "move on") is an insult to everything OGN/OSL has brought to the Starcraft scene in the best Starcraft country in the world. Then let OGN run an OSL that's not tied to the WCS brand and leave WCS to GOM. I don't have a problem with OGN running an OSL their way. I have a problem with them running WCS KR their way instead of the way everyone else runs it. You want that WCS KR running alongside GSL thing that happened last year? I thought that was an awful idea. Blizzard hasn't said that they have to change their brand names so I don't know why community figures are acting salty towards them just because they did. I would rather have GOM run every season of WCS KR and OGN run their OSL however they want rather than screw up the format of WCS KR because "OSL has been around forever." I don't want to watch an OSL, I want to watch WCS KR. And whatever OGN and GOM are broadcasting now is *not* WCS KR, it's an OSL. But how has the format been "screwed up"? And how is this not WCS Korea? It's not like they are doing the ro24 and seeding 4 players into ro16 like before. THAT would screw up the format. This is exactly the same structurally, it's just slightly different in how it plays out within each stage. It doesn't actually change anything important (bo1 is a different issue). Round robin group played out over the course of 6 nights versus double elimination group played out over one night. Every other production of WCS does the latter, OSL does the former. That means OSL is not WCS KR.
Why does it matter? Are you actually complaining just because it's different? If it's a better format that the fans enjoy, then it makes absolutely no difference if it's a slightly different format.
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On July 03 2013 10:10 syroz wrote:Show nested quote +
-Seeing Gwangalli Beach today was incredibly refreshing and I think all of WCS should use the same map pool and they should always use the Korean one. Hopefully GOM will step it up next season, cause imo the last maps they did were all too ordinary...
Yeah beach is refreshing. But the map was not easy to read at all. And i dont speak about balance... This is not serious for a big tourney.
you don't understand everything about the map after watching 1 to 2 games on it, therefore it must be a bad map? load up the client and play on it.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 10:10 syroz wrote:
-Seeing Gwangalli Beach today was incredibly refreshing and I think all of WCS should use the same map pool and they should always use the Korean one. Hopefully GOM will step it up next season, cause imo the last maps they did were all too ordinary...
Yeah beach is refreshing. But the map was not easy to read at all. And i dont speak about balance... This is not serious for a big tourney. you don't understand everything about the map after watching 1 to 2 games on it, therefore it must be a bad map? load up the client and play on it.
Who the heck even plays SC2 anymore
I might try out Gwangalli though, it is that beautiful
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On July 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 10:10 syroz wrote:
-Seeing Gwangalli Beach today was incredibly refreshing and I think all of WCS should use the same map pool and they should always use the Korean one. Hopefully GOM will step it up next season, cause imo the last maps they did were all too ordinary...
Yeah beach is refreshing. But the map was not easy to read at all. And i dont speak about balance... This is not serious for a big tourney. you don't understand everything about the map after watching 1 to 2 games on it, therefore it must be a bad map? load up the client and play on it.
Dont need to, it's obvious. :p I can't really talk about balance (and i didn't) but i i said the map is over-ornate, not easy to read at all. It's a matter of gameplay.
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On July 03 2013 10:18 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:On July 03 2013 10:10 syroz wrote:
-Seeing Gwangalli Beach today was incredibly refreshing and I think all of WCS should use the same map pool and they should always use the Korean one. Hopefully GOM will step it up next season, cause imo the last maps they did were all too ordinary...
Yeah beach is refreshing. But the map was not easy to read at all. And i dont speak about balance... This is not serious for a big tourney. you don't understand everything about the map after watching 1 to 2 games on it, therefore it must be a bad map? load up the client and play on it. Who the heck even plays SC2 anymore I might try out Gwangalli though, it is that beautiful
:D Yeah time to breathe fresh air and enjoy a beautiful beach. Summer is comming!! Brace yourself <3
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On July 03 2013 10:27 syroz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:On July 03 2013 10:10 syroz wrote:
-Seeing Gwangalli Beach today was incredibly refreshing and I think all of WCS should use the same map pool and they should always use the Korean one. Hopefully GOM will step it up next season, cause imo the last maps they did were all too ordinary...
Yeah beach is refreshing. But the map was not easy to read at all. And i dont speak about balance... This is not serious for a big tourney. you don't understand everything about the map after watching 1 to 2 games on it, therefore it must be a bad map? load up the client and play on it. Dont need to, it's obvious. :p I can't really talk about balance (and i didn't) but i i said the map is over-ornate, not easy to read at all. It's a matter of gameplay.
I wasn't distracted by the map, It's really not that flashy. did you think the same way about bel'shir beach?
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 03 2013 10:31 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 10:27 syroz wrote:On July 03 2013 10:16 Dodgin wrote:On July 03 2013 10:10 syroz wrote:
-Seeing Gwangalli Beach today was incredibly refreshing and I think all of WCS should use the same map pool and they should always use the Korean one. Hopefully GOM will step it up next season, cause imo the last maps they did were all too ordinary...
Yeah beach is refreshing. But the map was not easy to read at all. And i dont speak about balance... This is not serious for a big tourney. you don't understand everything about the map after watching 1 to 2 games on it, therefore it must be a bad map? load up the client and play on it. Dont need to, it's obvious. :p I can't really talk about balance (and i didn't) but i i said the map is over-ornate, not easy to read at all. It's a matter of gameplay. I wasn't distracted by the map, It's really not that flashy. did you think the same way about bel'shir beach?
Well the beach umbrellas were kinda distracting, as well as the metal beams above the ... third I think
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On July 03 2013 04:39 Albinoswordfish wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 21:48 ReDeYe wrote:On July 02 2013 18:46 rift wrote:On July 02 2013 18:45 Kommander wrote:Khaldor's been bitching about OSL ever since the season started. Nothing new, and not surprising since he works for a competitor. Redeye also complained about the naming emphasis and how OGN puts more emphasis on the OSL brand rather than the WCS brand, but if you think about it, the OSL brand is much more established than the WCS brand. these newcomers know not of what they speak "Newcomers" - Interesting terminology to explain someone who has spent the best part of 11 years in esports at the highest level. Newcomer to StarCraft? Relatively I guess, although I've been on the fringes of SC since 2005. I'm also well aware of the history of OSL having worked with OGN since 2005 on a regular basis too, but that's not the argument here, so let me qualify some of it, which obviously can't be understood or explained properly in 140 charachters. The WCS is a global competition run by partners in each region. I understand the OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to disrespect that history, but WCS is what the entire competition is now. My issues are around wanting StarCraft to appeal to as wide an audience as possible as I fully believe those who are exposed to it, will love the players, the game and the incredible community, ultimately leading to an even larger community. To capture those however, there are many things that have to happen in order to help improve the entry for casual viewers. The key ingredients to successful esports and tournaments over the last 11 years of watching them are format and consistency. If we establish that the basic thought behind the WCS is to bring all leagues, all players and fans together under one umbrella and (despite reservations over this) we accept this as the premise, it becomes a priority to ensure that no matter who runs each region, the map pools, the rules, the format and the nomenclature used is consistent. This is the essence of the argument. Right now, the rules are inconsistent, the map pools different and the way it all plays out is intrinsically different in each region. I totally get OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to remove that, but it's time to move on. This is WCS and it's not the same as GSL (although mirrors this more closely perhaps) and it's not OSL. Not only the casual viewer is unsure about it all on a global scale right now, but it seems a lot of people who have followed SC for a long time are confused about it too and it's not surprising. Keeping heritage in esports is super important, you won't hear any argument from me on that. WCS is very special and should be given the prestige it deserves for the time, effort and money being put in by a lot of people to raise the bar for SC. I don't agree with this at all. Let's not kid ourselves GSL and OSL is the hardest and most prestigious tournament in the world. The WCS Grand finals is just for money everybody knows winning the OSL/GSL means much more. For all the history OGN have put into both the Starcraft scene they deserves to have their own name brand. The thing is ESL and NASL don't have nearly the brand name value so it's no problem for you guys to switch to "WCS" because people will recognize that much more than "ESL". Keeping tradition in sports is very important and OSL is one of the most storied tournaments in the history of E-Sports. The fact that you want to just make them change to the generic "WCS" (or quote "move on") is an insult to everything OGN/OSL has brought to the Starcraft scene in the best Starcraft country in the world.
That's why they should stand alone by themselves. Anyway, I agree in principle with what Redeye has to say and that's one of the reasons I've been advocating for a World Tour Circuit once the timing/money is right where we'll have one roof hanging over the heads of every player.
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In other good news, the NA Primetime Rebroadcast started a lil bit ago! Tune in as Bomber vs. Bbyong is up soon and MAN was it good.
We will reconsider rebroadcast schedules so they don't coincide with the other regions if we can help it =[
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 03 2013 10:40 Chobra wrote:
In other good news, the NA Primetime Rebroadcast started a lil bit ago! Tune in as Bomber vs. Bbyong is up soon and MAN was it good.
We will reconsider rebroadcast schedules so they don't coincide with the other regions if we can help it =[
Most of NA can stay up to watch the first few games of OSL but don't often get to see the latter games that run too late in the morning. You can probably schedule your NA Primetime Rebroadcast such that the latter half of games begin just as WCS NA finishes, just like today. Should be fine for most people. Can't please everyone!
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On July 03 2013 10:45 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 10:40 Chobra wrote:
In other good news, the NA Primetime Rebroadcast started a lil bit ago! Tune in as Bomber vs. Bbyong is up soon and MAN was it good.
We will reconsider rebroadcast schedules so they don't coincide with the other regions if we can help it =[ Most of NA can stay up to watch the first few games of OSL but don't often get to see the latter games that run too late in the morning. You can probably schedule your NA Primetime Rebroadcast such that the latter half of games begin just as WCS NA finishes, just like today. Should be fine for most people. Can't please everyone!
Thanks for the tip, will keep it in consideration!
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