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[OSL] RO16 Day 1 WCS Korea Season 2 2013 - Page 104

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 102 103 104
havok55
Profile Joined May 2013
United States276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-03 02:14:14
July 03 2013 02:13 GMT
#2061
Reboardcast on OGN's stream atm... why is it non-featured? Almost missed it.
fuzzylogic44
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada2633 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-03 02:22:25
July 03 2013 02:14 GMT
#2062
On July 03 2013 07:21 Aflixion wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 06:25 fuzzylogic44 wrote:
On July 03 2013 06:08 Aflixion wrote:
On July 03 2013 05:24 Albinoswordfish wrote:
On July 03 2013 05:16 Aflixion wrote:
On July 03 2013 04:39 Albinoswordfish wrote:
On July 02 2013 21:48 ReDeYe wrote:
On July 02 2013 18:46 rift wrote:
On July 02 2013 18:45 Kommander wrote:
On July 02 2013 18:39 NicksonReyes wrote:
Sup with all the qqing?



I don't really see any problems with this Ro16 format.


Khaldor's been bitching about OSL ever since the season started. Nothing new, and not surprising since he works for a competitor. Redeye also complained about the naming emphasis and how OGN puts more emphasis on the OSL brand rather than the WCS brand, but if you think about it, the OSL brand is much more established than the WCS brand.

these newcomers know not of what they speak


"Newcomers" - Interesting terminology to explain someone who has spent the best part of 11 years in esports at the highest level. Newcomer to StarCraft? Relatively I guess, although I've been on the fringes of SC since 2005. I'm also well aware of the history of OSL having worked with OGN since 2005 on a regular basis too, but that's not the argument here, so let me qualify some of it, which obviously can't be understood or explained properly in 140 charachters.

The WCS is a global competition run by partners in each region. I understand the OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to disrespect that history, but WCS is what the entire competition is now. My issues are around wanting StarCraft to appeal to as wide an audience as possible as I fully believe those who are exposed to it, will love the players, the game and the incredible community, ultimately leading to an even larger community.

To capture those however, there are many things that have to happen in order to help improve the entry for casual viewers. The key ingredients to successful esports and tournaments over the last 11 years of watching them are format and consistency.

If we establish that the basic thought behind the WCS is to bring all leagues, all players and fans together under one umbrella and (despite reservations over this) we accept this as the premise, it becomes a priority to ensure that no matter who runs each region, the map pools, the rules, the format and the nomenclature used is consistent. This is the essence of the argument.

Right now, the rules are inconsistent, the map pools different and the way it all plays out is intrinsically different in each region. I totally get OSL and GSL have history and I don't want to remove that, but it's time to move on. This is WCS and it's not the same as GSL (although mirrors this more closely perhaps) and it's not OSL.

Not only the casual viewer is unsure about it all on a global scale right now, but it seems a lot of people who have followed SC for a long time are confused about it too and it's not surprising.

Keeping heritage in esports is super important, you won't hear any argument from me on that. WCS is very special and should be given the prestige it deserves for the time, effort and money being put in by a lot of people to raise the bar for SC.




I don't agree with this at all. Let's not kid ourselves GSL and OSL is the hardest and most prestigious tournament in the world. The WCS Grand finals is just for money everybody knows winning the OSL/GSL means much more. For all the history OGN have put into both the Starcraft scene they deserves to have their own name brand. The thing is ESL and NASL don't have nearly the brand name value so it's no problem for you guys to switch to "WCS" because people will recognize that much more than "ESL". Keeping tradition in sports is very important and OSL is one of the most storied tournaments in the history of E-Sports. The fact that you want to just make them change to the generic "WCS" (or quote "move on") is an insult to everything OGN/OSL has brought to the Starcraft scene in the best Starcraft country in the world.


Then let OGN run an OSL that's not tied to the WCS brand and leave WCS to GOM. I don't have a problem with OGN running an OSL their way. I have a problem with them running WCS KR their way instead of the way everyone else runs it.


You want that WCS KR running alongside GSL thing that happened last year? I thought that was an awful idea. Blizzard hasn't said that they have to change their brand names so I don't know why community figures are acting salty towards them just because they did.


I would rather have GOM run every season of WCS KR and OGN run their OSL however they want rather than screw up the format of WCS KR because "OSL has been around forever." I don't want to watch an OSL, I want to watch WCS KR. And whatever OGN and GOM are broadcasting now is *not* WCS KR, it's an OSL.


But how has the format been "screwed up"? And how is this not WCS Korea?

It's not like they are doing the ro24 and seeding 4 players into ro16 like before. THAT would screw up the format. This is exactly the same structurally, it's just slightly different in how it plays out within each stage. It doesn't actually change anything important (bo1 is a different issue).


Round robin group played out over the course of 6 nights versus double elimination group played out over one night. Every other production of WCS does the latter, OSL does the former. That means OSL is not WCS KR.


Why does it mean that?

Dreamhack Stockholm was 96 players with 32 seeded into the ro64. Dreamhack Summer was 128 man, no seeds. Which one of those wasn't really Dreamhack?

MLG Winter was a 32 man invitational single elim bracket. MLG Spring was a 128 man open double elim. Which one wasn't MLG?

GSL used to have ro32 groups and a 16 man single elim bracket. They changed to ro32 and ro16 groups with 8 man bracket. Is it not GSL anymore? Or was it not GSL then and now is?

WCS isn't a single tournament, it's an umbrella. It contains GSL and OSL in it's Korea wing. NA and EU didn't have weekly tournaments like this so they made new ones to fill that role.
Havik_
Profile Joined November 2011
United States5585 Posts
July 03 2013 02:50 GMT
#2063
Who put these groups together? Bomber, Flash, Innovation, Bbyong. Wut? LOL. I hope Bomber plays Flash in some EPIC macro games. I've been waiting for a year for these guys to meet in tournament play!
"An opinion is only as good as the evidence that backs it up."- William O'Malley, S.J.
Jmanthedragonguy
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada1202 Posts
July 03 2013 02:58 GMT
#2064
How exactly does this format work? Is it round robin like up and downs except each game is played on a different day?
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
July 03 2013 03:00 GMT
#2065
On July 03 2013 11:58 Jmanthedragonguy wrote:
How exactly does this format work? Is it round robin like up and downs except each game is played on a different day?


Yes. bo3 with 1 series from each group on each day.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
fuzzylogic44
Profile Joined December 2011
Canada2633 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-03 03:29:04
July 03 2013 03:28 GMT
#2066
On July 03 2013 11:58 Jmanthedragonguy wrote:
How exactly does this format work? Is it round robin like up and downs except each game is played on a different day?


The concept of Starleague is that it's like an actual league. 16 players, playing round robin matches spread over time, and the standings fill out in each division. so by the end who is advancing and falling down will start to be determined, instead of Dual Tournament where each group is decided entirely in one night. This way there's more preparation for each match.

But in the end it's not really any different. 4 groups of 4, 2 advance out of each into 8 man bracket, 2 drop to Challenger.
Matoo-
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
Canada1397 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-03 03:40:19
July 03 2013 03:38 GMT
#2067
I'm going to sub to the GSL version of the WCS KR on either Twitch or gomtv.net. Does anyone have any recommendations between the two? E.g. are the vods available faster on one or the other, what about the quality, etc.
Spacekyod
Profile Joined December 2010
United States818 Posts
July 03 2013 03:52 GMT
#2068
First, not surprised to be disappointed by Fantasy. But my disappointment was short lived as i got to see the beauty that is Gwangali Beach. Holy moly, what an awesome map!
Riders of the Plastic Groove. "When all-in fails, all-in again!" Finally... Make way for the real DONG!
gobbledydook
Profile Joined October 2012
Australia2603 Posts
July 03 2013 05:26 GMT
#2069
On July 03 2013 11:50 Havik_ wrote:
Who put these groups together? Bomber, Flash, Innovation, Bbyong. Wut? LOL. I hope Bomber plays Flash in some EPIC macro games. I've been waiting for a year for these guys to meet in tournament play!


The groups were generated randomly.

The Random Number God acts mysteriously.
I am a dirty Protoss bullshit abuser
Aeleron
Profile Joined January 2012
Australia71 Posts
July 03 2013 05:54 GMT
#2070
On July 03 2013 14:26 gobbledydook wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 11:50 Havik_ wrote:
Who put these groups together? Bomber, Flash, Innovation, Bbyong. Wut? LOL. I hope Bomber plays Flash in some EPIC macro games. I've been waiting for a year for these guys to meet in tournament play!


The groups were generated randomly.

The Random Number God acts mysteriously.


It's all part of the Ball Drawing Bonjwa's plan.

[image loading]
NovemberstOrm
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Canada16217 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-03 06:19:54
July 03 2013 06:12 GMT
#2071
On July 03 2013 11:13 havok55 wrote:
Reboardcast on OGN's stream atm... why is it non-featured? Almost missed it.

The broadcaster has to fill out a form in advance if they want it to be immediately be featured when it goes live, or staff has to see the stream and put it up on the side, so it can be tough if the broadcaster does not do that ahead of time.

edit:
also just saw fantasy vs first vods and wow first's play was impressive.
Moderatorlickypiddy
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-03 06:25:36
July 03 2013 06:24 GMT
#2072
On July 03 2013 15:12 NovemberstOrm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 11:13 havok55 wrote:
Reboardcast on OGN's stream atm... why is it non-featured? Almost missed it.

The broadcaster has to fill out a form in advance if they want it to be immediately be featured when it goes live, or staff has to see the stream and put it up on the side, so it can be tough if the broadcaster does not do that ahead of time.

edit:
also just saw fantasy vs first vods and wow first's play was impressive.


It seemed close at times, but it wasn't.

Edit: I wonder if anyone would have ever expected anyppi to ever beat Fantasy lol
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-03 06:35:59
July 03 2013 06:35 GMT
#2073
On July 03 2013 15:24 lichter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 15:12 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On July 03 2013 11:13 havok55 wrote:
Reboardcast on OGN's stream atm... why is it non-featured? Almost missed it.

The broadcaster has to fill out a form in advance if they want it to be immediately be featured when it goes live, or staff has to see the stream and put it up on the side, so it can be tough if the broadcaster does not do that ahead of time.

edit:
also just saw fantasy vs first vods and wow first's play was impressive.


It seemed close at times, but it wasn't.

Edit: I wonder if anyone would have ever expected anyppi to ever beat Fantasy lol

Idk First was so underrated. He has shown a lot of good play lately and was favored imo. Fantasy looked ok before this but his opponents didn't play that great when they faced him so I wasn't convinced.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


although I guess you're referring to anyppi ever beating Fantasy due to their prestige difference in bw
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-03 06:39:26
July 03 2013 06:38 GMT
#2074
On July 03 2013 15:35 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2013 15:24 lichter wrote:
On July 03 2013 15:12 NovemberstOrm wrote:
On July 03 2013 11:13 havok55 wrote:
Reboardcast on OGN's stream atm... why is it non-featured? Almost missed it.

The broadcaster has to fill out a form in advance if they want it to be immediately be featured when it goes live, or staff has to see the stream and put it up on the side, so it can be tough if the broadcaster does not do that ahead of time.

edit:
also just saw fantasy vs first vods and wow first's play was impressive.


It seemed close at times, but it wasn't.

Edit: I wonder if anyone would have ever expected anyppi to ever beat Fantasy lol

Idk First was so underrated. He has shown a lot of good play lately and was favored imo. Fantasy looked ok before this but his opponents didn't play that great when they faced him so I wasn't convinced.
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


although I guess you're referring to anyppi ever beating Fantasy due to their prestige difference in bw


Yeah I meant from everyone's memories of him never winning in BW. I definitely favored him in this match up and expected Fantasy to disappoint as usual, sigh.

Edit: and apparently Anyppi did win 1 game out of 11.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
July 03 2013 07:14 GMT
#2075
Hey, he had an 100% record at one point...
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
July 03 2013 07:38 GMT
#2076
Hmm, it was Fantasy's birthday on July 1st
Refer to my post.
Daswollvieh
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
5553 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-03 08:51:37
July 03 2013 08:51 GMT
#2077
On July 03 2013 16:38 Zenbrez wrote:
Hmm, it was Fantasy's birthday on July 1st


And First brought him a cake to choke on.

Lets hope First himself doesn´t choke as profoundly as sOs did. These "new smart Tosses" have a curious tendency to do so.
Caihead
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada8550 Posts
July 03 2013 08:53 GMT
#2078
On July 03 2013 16:38 Zenbrez wrote:
Hmm, it was Fantasy's birthday on July 1st


That's rough.
"If you're not living in the US or are a US Citizen, please do not tell us how to vote or how you want our country to be governed." - Serpest, American Hero
jonich0n
Profile Joined February 2009
United States1982 Posts
July 04 2013 03:54 GMT
#2079
just now started watching the VODS of these matches now I have some free time ..

posting simply to say the OGN production is SICK! serious props sickcity
(>'.')>
TommyStarcraft
Profile Joined June 2013
Denmark34 Posts
July 05 2013 15:08 GMT
#2080
Where can i get the replay(S) of first vs fantasy ?
Denmark
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