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I absolutely agree with his initial tweet. But the interesting part doesn't come from the initial tweet but the way he backs it up:
"@QuanticNate Because GOM worked hard for the standing that comes with being a Code A or Code S player. WCS NA/EU is on a much lower level"
The same can be said about OSL and the way they handle their league. They've been there for more than a decade, proved themselves and earned the right to keep extanding their formula (format, map pool, labelling themselves OSL instead of going for a dull WCS.kr). Either we apply the same norm for absolutely every region - and we get rid of all particular aspects that made leagues unique - either we accept differences.
edit: spelling. I'm damn tired ~~
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United States33703 Posts
it's pretty clear that GSL-OSL are the established brands and WCS is the newcomer that has to compromise to old giants
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United Kingdom12056 Posts
Wait, Khaldor is complaining about the group format?
How could any fan of good starcraft complain about the best way of doing groups there is?
It gives everyone in the groups a very fair chance and gives more people more time to prepare against each other. It's miles better than the format where you play all your group matches in one day.
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On July 02 2013 22:53 Waxangel wrote:
it's pretty clear that GSL-OSL are the established brands and WCS is the newcomer that has to compromise to old giants
And that begs the question, what is more important? Blizzard or GSL-OSL?
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Hell yea, Bomber! Gotta raise another level to compete with either Flash or INnoVation. The last StarTale fighting!
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United States33703 Posts
there's also the political issue of Blizzard coming in out of nowhere and telling OGN and GomTV that they must hold leagues in accordance to their rules, scheduling and etc. The bone they threw them was 1) prize money, 2) allowing them to keep brandnig (a win/win actaully, Blizzard needs the OSL/Code S branding to appeal to KR fans), and 3) I speculate some extra cash as well.
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On July 02 2013 22:54 XaCez wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 22:53 Waxangel wrote:
it's pretty clear that GSL-OSL are the established brands and WCS is the newcomer that has to compromise to old giants And that begs the question, what is more important? Blizzard or GSL-OSL?
We survived without blizzard. If wcs wasn't announced we would have gsl and osl. i find the second option more important.
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Survived without Blizzard? But didn't Blizzard largely fund the GSL from late 2010 until WCS?
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Damned. Wasn't able to watch the games today. Glad to see Soulkey and Bomber advance.
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United Kingdom12056 Posts
Redeye, I respect your opinion about eSports more than nearly everyone else due to how experienced you are and how long you've been in the business. You're by far one of the best and only qualified people to talk about these sorts of things in a well mannered way, but what you're saying about the map pool, is that really such a bad thing?
Wouldn't it be nice if each region had their own maps made by their own nietzens/map making teams and then they all clash together in the regional finals? I can't think of anything I'd want more than for more community made maps in Europe and America be picked up for use in WCS Europe/America and less maps made by the GSL teams.
There's enough time inbetween the finals and the regional finals to give people time to practice for the other maps they've not played. This for me as a spectator gives me a lot of benefits. One, every region of WCS has different maps meaning you'll get different games in different regions, not just the same games as Korea with a lower skill level or lower control and secondly it means the regional finals are a lot more interesting rather than just WCS Korea played out again with some foreign players in it.
That sort of format with different maps for different regions also leads to map makers getting a lot more exposure and more chance of interesting maps getting to ladder.
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Ah man, the VODs arent uploaded yet but I think I was on air during Losira v Supernova.
Also, the more and more I see The Marine from up close the better and better he looks.
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On July 02 2013 22:54 Qikz wrote:
Wait, Khaldor is complaining about the group format?
How could any fan of good starcraft complain about the best way of doing groups there is?
It gives everyone in the groups a very fair chance and gives more people more time to prepare against each other. It's miles better than the format where you play all your group matches in one day.
he said that OSL format is stupid,
but i like this OSL format it makes continue to take an interest more in league for me
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On July 02 2013 22:56 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 22:54 XaCez wrote:On July 02 2013 22:53 Waxangel wrote:
it's pretty clear that GSL-OSL are the established brands and WCS is the newcomer that has to compromise to old giants And that begs the question, what is more important? Blizzard or GSL-OSL? We survived without blizzard. If wcs wasn't announced we would have gsl and osl. i find the second option more important.
Ofc. It's not even a leveling playing field considering Blizzard is so inexperienced and it's clearly showing. My format shall rule them all one day muahahahaha.
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United Kingdom12056 Posts
On July 02 2013 23:13 evaniss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 22:54 Qikz wrote:
Wait, Khaldor is complaining about the group format?
How could any fan of good starcraft complain about the best way of doing groups there is?
It gives everyone in the groups a very fair chance and gives more people more time to prepare against each other. It's miles better than the format where you play all your group matches in one day. he said that OSL format is stupid, but i like this OSL format it makes continue to take an interest more in league for me
He doesn't like the way only one game per group is played per day in this format, despite the fact it leads to a hell of a lot more interesting games than the current WCS format does. I'd rather WCS take this format and use it instead of the other one infact, it's so much better.
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On July 02 2013 23:13 evaniss wrote:
he said that OSL format is stupid,
To be more precise, he said that it's easier to follow storylines if you play consecutive matches from the same group. Basically, he's pointing out benefits of the GSL format while other people are pointing out benefits of the OSL format. Then the discussion veered into a tangent on whether all regions should be using a unified format. In summary, everybody is right?
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Sounds like a discussion about all kill vs the other thingy. Both are cool but you can't have both. Or you make the Ro32 like GSL and the Ro16 like OSL and use a different map pool for each region with the most played go into the finals and the players will be confused as hell haha.
OSL system is kinda shitty though compared to the gsl format, but gom had 3 years to refine their format for sc2. So they have some time before you can really complain. I mean MLG is still trying to sort out their stuff and it gets better imo.
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On July 02 2013 23:03 Qikz wrote:
Redeye, I respect your opinion about eSports more than nearly everyone else due to how experienced you are and how long you've been in the business. You're by far one of the best and only qualified people to talk about these sorts of things in a well mannered way, but what you're saying about the map pool, is that really such a bad thing?
Wouldn't it be nice if each region had their own maps made by their own nietzens/map making teams and then they all clash together in the regional finals? I can't think of anything I'd want more than for more community made maps in Europe and America be picked up for use in WCS Europe/America and less maps made by the GSL teams.
There's enough time inbetween the finals and the regional finals to give people time to practice for the other maps they've not played. This for me as a spectator gives me a lot of benefits. One, every region of WCS has different maps meaning you'll get different games in different regions, not just the same games as Korea with a lower skill level or lower control and secondly it means the regional finals are a lot more interesting rather than just WCS Korea played out again with some foreign players in it.
That sort of format with different maps for different regions also leads to map makers getting a lot more exposure and more chance of interesting maps getting to ladder.
Oh god please no .. Foreign maps are to Korean maps what foreign players are to Korean players
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United Kingdom12056 Posts
On July 02 2013 23:31 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 23:03 Qikz wrote:
Redeye, I respect your opinion about eSports more than nearly everyone else due to how experienced you are and how long you've been in the business. You're by far one of the best and only qualified people to talk about these sorts of things in a well mannered way, but what you're saying about the map pool, is that really such a bad thing?
Wouldn't it be nice if each region had their own maps made by their own nietzens/map making teams and then they all clash together in the regional finals? I can't think of anything I'd want more than for more community made maps in Europe and America be picked up for use in WCS Europe/America and less maps made by the GSL teams.
There's enough time inbetween the finals and the regional finals to give people time to practice for the other maps they've not played. This for me as a spectator gives me a lot of benefits. One, every region of WCS has different maps meaning you'll get different games in different regions, not just the same games as Korea with a lower skill level or lower control and secondly it means the regional finals are a lot more interesting rather than just WCS Korea played out again with some foreign players in it.
That sort of format with different maps for different regions also leads to map makers getting a lot more exposure and more chance of interesting maps getting to ladder. Oh god please no .. Foreign maps are to Korean maps what foreign players are to Korean players
Really? I've seen quite a lot of well design foreign made maps that are perfectly fine until people start complaining they're not standard enough. I realise the Kespa/OGN map teams are still by far and away the best, but I'd disagree that it's in such a large range as player skill level.
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On July 02 2013 23:38 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 23:31 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On July 02 2013 23:03 Qikz wrote:
Redeye, I respect your opinion about eSports more than nearly everyone else due to how experienced you are and how long you've been in the business. You're by far one of the best and only qualified people to talk about these sorts of things in a well mannered way, but what you're saying about the map pool, is that really such a bad thing?
Wouldn't it be nice if each region had their own maps made by their own nietzens/map making teams and then they all clash together in the regional finals? I can't think of anything I'd want more than for more community made maps in Europe and America be picked up for use in WCS Europe/America and less maps made by the GSL teams.
There's enough time inbetween the finals and the regional finals to give people time to practice for the other maps they've not played. This for me as a spectator gives me a lot of benefits. One, every region of WCS has different maps meaning you'll get different games in different regions, not just the same games as Korea with a lower skill level or lower control and secondly it means the regional finals are a lot more interesting rather than just WCS Korea played out again with some foreign players in it.
That sort of format with different maps for different regions also leads to map makers getting a lot more exposure and more chance of interesting maps getting to ladder. Oh god please no .. Foreign maps are to Korean maps what foreign players are to Korean players Really? I've seen quite a lot of well design foreign made maps that are perfectly fine until people start complaining they're not standard enough. I realise the Kespa/OGN map teams are still by far and away the best, but I'd disagree that it's in such a large range as player skill level.
Current map pool still feels too standard, no weird maps, you can almost play every map with the same style, pretty boring.
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On July 02 2013 23:17 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 23:13 evaniss wrote:On July 02 2013 22:54 Qikz wrote:
Wait, Khaldor is complaining about the group format?
How could any fan of good starcraft complain about the best way of doing groups there is?
It gives everyone in the groups a very fair chance and gives more people more time to prepare against each other. It's miles better than the format where you play all your group matches in one day. he said that OSL format is stupid, but i like this OSL format it makes continue to take an interest more in league for me He doesn't like the way only one game per group is played per day in this format, despite the fact it leads to a hell of a lot more interesting games than the current WCS format does. I'd rather WCS take this format and use it instead of the other one infact, it's so much better.
Actually, his first tweet was about having 2 matches (not ALL) from the same group. iE, parting vs soO would be played today. You still get the preparation time of OSL.
WCS EU and NA cannot follow this unless all the players live close together.
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EPT
