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On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On June 24 2013 09:48 Nuclease wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 09:33 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 08:55 Bagration wrote:On June 24 2013 08:51 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On June 24 2013 08:37 RagequitBM wrote:
TLO really shows that with good dedication you can become amazing. He wasn't a very good player before, but after starting, and following his schedule he's become a fantastic Zerg. Really inspiring. it's what I love about TL. accomplishment > money =) There's not really much difference. Accomplishment and money are closely related, win more, and you get more money. Very rarely do you trade one for the other. You either get both, or you have trouble getting either one i think he's refering to EG get high wages but not much of accomplishment Wut? Every single one of their players has been an absolute beast at one time or another, or entered the team as an incredible personality in eSports that of course any team would pick up. IdrA is one of the most successful foreigners in history, Incontrol (not going to try and do the capitalization right) was very consistently high placed in early MLGs, etc., and is captain of the team (the captain is often not the best player, or even a middle of the pack player on a team, but the best leader as in this case). HuK had his time of foreign dominance, Puma too, JaeDong is raping face right now in Proleague and individual tournaments, etc. etc. etc. Let's not even get into Stephano. All I will say about that is that he is the best foreigner ever in terms of results. Period. Just by results, it is objectively true. Moreover, what about Suppy and Xenocider? They picked them up as complete unknowns. Now, Suppy is doing really well internationally and Xenocider has yet to be on the team for more than a month so there's not much to say about him other than the fact that EG does NOT just pick up personalities. Oz, aLive, JYP, Revival, and ThorZain continue to do very well for themselves in Proleague and otherwise, and none of them were or are huge personalities when EG picked them up and kept them. They are simply very solid players. I'm not a huge fan of EG, but to say they don't push for results is bullshit. Sure, they release a lot of media and one or two of their players are mostly focused on that media, but that doesn't mean results don't come number one. The fact that they just opened up a media production house and team house separately in San Fran evidences this. Incontrol and the managers will stay in the media house mostly from what he's said, and the rest of EG while in the States will practice in the team house. The money-making part of EG (the smaller part by far, especially when it concerns their players under contract) allows the competitive part to perform and go to tournaments, and also they allow the rest of the team to aquire and keep players with good salary. Ain't shit wrong with that. i dont even read your super long post making this reply im just trying to decipher the original poster what he's meant by "accomplishment > money" anyway most EG player got caught in EG's curse, maybe thats what he means only stephano retains his champion status, but even he was declining after joining EG he never won any 1st place aside WCS Europe after joins EG (Lone Star Clash is not premier, so i dunno what u think about it) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stephano
Liquid tops best 3 Slots in HSC VII, EG-Curse discussion mandatory! Ahahahah!
Alright let's get back to topic: Congrats to Liquid, especially TLO makes me very happy as well as Snute's words after he lost stating that he didn't took that many maps off of TaeJa in practice. Awesome tournament, awesome players. What else could you need?
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On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 09:48 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:33 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 08:55 Bagration wrote:On June 24 2013 08:51 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On June 24 2013 08:37 RagequitBM wrote:
TLO really shows that with good dedication you can become amazing. He wasn't a very good player before, but after starting, and following his schedule he's become a fantastic Zerg. Really inspiring. it's what I love about TL. accomplishment > money =) There's not really much difference. Accomplishment and money are closely related, win more, and you get more money. Very rarely do you trade one for the other. You either get both, or you have trouble getting either one i think he's refering to EG get high wages but not much of accomplishment Wut? Every single one of their players has been an absolute beast at one time or another, or entered the team as an incredible personality in eSports that of course any team would pick up. IdrA is one of the most successful foreigners in history, Incontrol (not going to try and do the capitalization right) was very consistently high placed in early MLGs, etc., and is captain of the team (the captain is often not the best player, or even a middle of the pack player on a team, but the best leader as in this case). HuK had his time of foreign dominance, Puma too, JaeDong is raping face right now in Proleague and individual tournaments, etc. etc. etc. Let's not even get into Stephano. All I will say about that is that he is the best foreigner ever in terms of results. Period. Just by results, it is objectively true. Moreover, what about Suppy and Xenocider? They picked them up as complete unknowns. Now, Suppy is doing really well internationally and Xenocider has yet to be on the team for more than a month so there's not much to say about him other than the fact that EG does NOT just pick up personalities. Oz, aLive, JYP, Revival, and ThorZain continue to do very well for themselves in Proleague and otherwise, and none of them were or are huge personalities when EG picked them up and kept them. They are simply very solid players. I'm not a huge fan of EG, but to say they don't push for results is bullshit. Sure, they release a lot of media and one or two of their players are mostly focused on that media, but that doesn't mean results don't come number one. The fact that they just opened up a media production house and team house separately in San Fran evidences this. Incontrol and the managers will stay in the media house mostly from what he's said, and the rest of EG while in the States will practice in the team house. The money-making part of EG (the smaller part by far, especially when it concerns their players under contract) allows the competitive part to perform and go to tournaments, and also they allow the rest of the team to aquire and keep players with good salary. Ain't shit wrong with that. i dont even read your super long post making this reply im just trying to decipher the original poster what he's meant by "accomplishment > money" anyway most EG player got caught in EG's curse, maybe thats what he means only stephano retains his champion status, but even he was declining after joining EG he never won any 1st place aside WCS Europe after joins EG (Lone Star Clash is not premier, so i dunno what u think about it) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stephano
I don't really get the no results thing either. But even further, the community tends to think of everything as 1st or nothing, when in fact 2nd and other place finishes get you quite a good amount of cash prizes too and is a substantial achievement. Stephano, Revival, and Jaedong all got recent 2nd place finishes in big tournaments. That is quite an achievement even if people want to ignore it. This isn't the NBA where the champion gets everything and the losers go home with nothing.
The competition is so stacked right now with the addition of Kespa players that it is very hard to get 1st place consistently in big tournaments.
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On June 24 2013 09:52 Cheno wrote:Show nested quote +z, aLive, JYP, Revival, and ThorZain continue to do very well for themselves in Proleague and otherwise, and none of them were or are huge personalities when EG picked them up and kept them. What what... Thorzain WERE huge when EG picked him up.... -_-
Not really. Not in comparison to IdrA, for example. Not in the same way. What I mean was that he wasn't a huge personality, he was huge because he had just been on a hot streak. He had a lot of bandwagon going for him at the time after getting very deep (and even winning) in a few tournaments.
IdrA was a person that they kept even when he had horrible results as a huge personality because he had previously done so well and developed his presence in eSports, which wouldn't happen to ThorzaiN. If his results weren't so good, he wouldn't have been huge at the time. There's a difference.
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On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 09:48 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:33 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 08:55 Bagration wrote:On June 24 2013 08:51 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On June 24 2013 08:37 RagequitBM wrote:
TLO really shows that with good dedication you can become amazing. He wasn't a very good player before, but after starting, and following his schedule he's become a fantastic Zerg. Really inspiring. it's what I love about TL. accomplishment > money =) There's not really much difference. Accomplishment and money are closely related, win more, and you get more money. Very rarely do you trade one for the other. You either get both, or you have trouble getting either one i think he's refering to EG get high wages but not much of accomplishment Wut? Every single one of their players has been an absolute beast at one time or another, or entered the team as an incredible personality in eSports that of course any team would pick up. IdrA is one of the most successful foreigners in history, Incontrol (not going to try and do the capitalization right) was very consistently high placed in early MLGs, etc., and is captain of the team (the captain is often not the best player, or even a middle of the pack player on a team, but the best leader as in this case). HuK had his time of foreign dominance, Puma too, JaeDong is raping face right now in Proleague and individual tournaments, etc. etc. etc. Let's not even get into Stephano. All I will say about that is that he is the best foreigner ever in terms of results. Period. Just by results, it is objectively true. Moreover, what about Suppy and Xenocider? They picked them up as complete unknowns. Now, Suppy is doing really well internationally and Xenocider has yet to be on the team for more than a month so there's not much to say about him other than the fact that EG does NOT just pick up personalities. Oz, aLive, JYP, Revival, and ThorZain continue to do very well for themselves in Proleague and otherwise, and none of them were or are huge personalities when EG picked them up and kept them. They are simply very solid players. I'm not a huge fan of EG, but to say they don't push for results is bullshit. Sure, they release a lot of media and one or two of their players are mostly focused on that media, but that doesn't mean results don't come number one. The fact that they just opened up a media production house and team house separately in San Fran evidences this. Incontrol and the managers will stay in the media house mostly from what he's said, and the rest of EG while in the States will practice in the team house. The money-making part of EG (the smaller part by far, especially when it concerns their players under contract) allows the competitive part to perform and go to tournaments, and also they allow the rest of the team to aquire and keep players with good salary. Ain't shit wrong with that. i dont even read your super long post making this reply im just trying to decipher the original poster what he's meant by "accomplishment > money" anyway most EG player got caught in EG's curse, maybe thats what he means only stephano retains his champion status, but even he was declining after joining EG he never won any 1st place aside WCS Europe after joins EG (Lone Star Clash is not premier, so i dunno what u think about it) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stephanocomparing result in top 3 minimal at 2013 3rd place : HSCVII - TLO 2nd place : HSCVII - Snute 1st Place : HSCVII - Taeja, WCSAM - HerO 3rd place : - 2nd place : Dreamhack Summer - Jaedong, WCS AM - Revival, WCS EU - Stephano 1st place : - EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners but less result im not getting into 2012 yet (most stephano's throphy is during his stint at millenium)
Maybe you should read the post, because it addresses lots of what you're saying.
You're not taking into account, for example, that EG's Koreans (every single one) were still in Korea for ProLeague instead of being at HSC, while Liquid had 4 players, one of them Korean and who ended up winning, at HSC VII. Comparing the performance of EG at HSC to Liquid is moronic, because Liquid was much more invested in the tournament.
Moreover, 3 second place finishes, all in Premier tournaments , is just as impressive to me as a first place in WCSAM. HSC, again, can't really be compared because EG did not send a single one of their players that you're saying is supposedely "better."
EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners
Moreover, to not get into 2012 is, again, moronic. EG excelled in 2012 and comparing the teams as overall dynasties requires that you look at everything they've together. EG gets results, it's absolutely fallacious and ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
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Eg curse only existed because eg bought players when they were at their prime.
A decline or complete slump is kinda expected.
Look at alive and oz for counter example, they still achieving pretty much their old level and didn't get any curse
TL bought zenio at his prime and he pretty much declined hard as well
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I remember there being a site where they organised VODS from tournaments, anyone know a link to that site???
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On June 24 2013 11:07 Nuclease wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 09:48 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:33 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 08:55 Bagration wrote:On June 24 2013 08:51 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On June 24 2013 08:37 RagequitBM wrote:
TLO really shows that with good dedication you can become amazing. He wasn't a very good player before, but after starting, and following his schedule he's become a fantastic Zerg. Really inspiring. it's what I love about TL. accomplishment > money =) There's not really much difference. Accomplishment and money are closely related, win more, and you get more money. Very rarely do you trade one for the other. You either get both, or you have trouble getting either one i think he's refering to EG get high wages but not much of accomplishment Wut? Every single one of their players has been an absolute beast at one time or another, or entered the team as an incredible personality in eSports that of course any team would pick up. IdrA is one of the most successful foreigners in history, Incontrol (not going to try and do the capitalization right) was very consistently high placed in early MLGs, etc., and is captain of the team (the captain is often not the best player, or even a middle of the pack player on a team, but the best leader as in this case). HuK had his time of foreign dominance, Puma too, JaeDong is raping face right now in Proleague and individual tournaments, etc. etc. etc. Let's not even get into Stephano. All I will say about that is that he is the best foreigner ever in terms of results. Period. Just by results, it is objectively true. Moreover, what about Suppy and Xenocider? They picked them up as complete unknowns. Now, Suppy is doing really well internationally and Xenocider has yet to be on the team for more than a month so there's not much to say about him other than the fact that EG does NOT just pick up personalities. Oz, aLive, JYP, Revival, and ThorZain continue to do very well for themselves in Proleague and otherwise, and none of them were or are huge personalities when EG picked them up and kept them. They are simply very solid players. I'm not a huge fan of EG, but to say they don't push for results is bullshit. Sure, they release a lot of media and one or two of their players are mostly focused on that media, but that doesn't mean results don't come number one. The fact that they just opened up a media production house and team house separately in San Fran evidences this. Incontrol and the managers will stay in the media house mostly from what he's said, and the rest of EG while in the States will practice in the team house. The money-making part of EG (the smaller part by far, especially when it concerns their players under contract) allows the competitive part to perform and go to tournaments, and also they allow the rest of the team to aquire and keep players with good salary. Ain't shit wrong with that. i dont even read your super long post making this reply im just trying to decipher the original poster what he's meant by "accomplishment > money" anyway most EG player got caught in EG's curse, maybe thats what he means only stephano retains his champion status, but even he was declining after joining EG he never won any 1st place aside WCS Europe after joins EG (Lone Star Clash is not premier, so i dunno what u think about it) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stephanocomparing result in top 3 minimal at 2013 3rd place : HSCVII - TLO 2nd place : HSCVII - Snute 1st Place : HSCVII - Taeja, WCSAM - HerO 3rd place : - 2nd place : Dreamhack Summer - Jaedong, WCS AM - Revival, WCS EU - Stephano 1st place : - EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners but less result im not getting into 2012 yet (most stephano's throphy is during his stint at millenium) Maybe you should read the post, because it addresses lots of what you're saying. You're not taking into account, for example, that EG's Koreans (every single one) were still in Korea for ProLeague instead of being at HSC, while Liquid had 4 players, one of them Korean and who ended up winning, at HSC VII. Comparing the performance of EG at HSC to Liquid is moronic, because Liquid was much more invested in the tournament. Moreover, 3 second place finishes, all in Premier tournaments , is just as impressive to me as a first place in WCSAM. HSC, again, can't really be compared because EG did not send a single one of their players that you're saying is supposedely "better." Moreover, to not get into 2012 is, again, moronic. EG excelled in 2012 and comparing the teams as overall dynasties requires that you look at everything they've together. EG gets results, it's absolutely fallacious and ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
2012
3rd place : DH Stockholm - Ret, IEM VI Sao Paolo - Ret, Bnet Asia - HerO, Code S S2 - HerO, IPL Tournament of champs - HerO, Code S S4 - Taeja, MLG Summer Champs - Taeja
2nd place : DH Winter - Taeja
1st place : DH Valencia - Taeja, DH Winter - HerO, NASL S4 - HerO, ASUS ROG 2012 - Taeja, MLG Summer Arena - Taeja
3rd place : MLG Winter Arena 3- HuK, HSC IV - JYP, ASUS ROG Winter - PuMa
2nd place : IEM WC VI - PuMa
1st place : WCS EU - Stephano
Alive win IPL and 3rd in GSL Jan as fnatic player
thorzain win DH stockholm as Mouz player
stephano win NASL S3, 3rd in DH Summer, 3rd in Spring arena, 2nd ASUS ROG Winter as Millenium player
Oz 3rd at MLG Summer arena as fnatic player
Snute won HSC VI as GamesLeague player
in 2012
Liquid-------EG
3rd = 7-----3
2nd = 1----1
1st = 5-----1
EG player starts declining after joins EG, like Alive, Thorzain, stephano (Oz never won anything anyway)
contrary to liquid, taeja and hero starts winning after they join liquid
PS : why do u call me moronic 
On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:
EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners
but less result
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United States97276 Posts
Didn't Snute join liquid after winning HSC?
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On June 24 2013 11:36 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Didn't Snute join liquid after winning HSC?
yes
==
Shocking results of both Snute AND TLO taking out Hyun. Good for them, I'll need to go back and watch all the ZvZ.
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Ok glad i wasn't the only one who always thought TLO looked like Danielson.
grats Liquid!
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On June 24 2013 11:36 Shellshock1122 wrote:
Didn't Snute join liquid after winning HSC?
whooopss
fixed now 
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I just looked this up. The summer of Taeja last year started June 26th 2012 when Taeja all killed Prime. That was almost EXACTLY a year ago and Taeja wins his first big tournament since that summer tear. That is just freaky.
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On June 24 2013 11:44 bourne117 wrote:
I just looked this up. The summer of Taeja last year started June 26th 2012 when Taeja all killed Prime. That was almost EXACTLY a year ago and Taeja wins his first big tournament since that summer tear. That is just freaky.
hmm maybe Taeja powers up during the summer like Leenock does in the fall xD
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On June 24 2013 11:50 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:44 bourne117 wrote:
I just looked this up. The summer of Taeja last year started June 26th 2012 when Taeja all killed Prime. That was almost EXACTLY a year ago and Taeja wins his first big tournament since that summer tear. That is just freaky. hmm maybe Taeja powers up during the summer like Leenock does in the fall xD
Must be their passive bonuses. Taeja +5 bonus in the summer, the last remaining Swedish player in bracket stages of Dreamhack gets a +10 bonus 
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On June 24 2013 11:34 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:07 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 09:48 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:33 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 08:55 Bagration wrote:On June 24 2013 08:51 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On June 24 2013 08:37 RagequitBM wrote:
TLO really shows that with good dedication you can become amazing. He wasn't a very good player before, but after starting, and following his schedule he's become a fantastic Zerg. Really inspiring. it's what I love about TL. accomplishment > money =) There's not really much difference. Accomplishment and money are closely related, win more, and you get more money. Very rarely do you trade one for the other. You either get both, or you have trouble getting either one i think he's refering to EG get high wages but not much of accomplishment Wut? Every single one of their players has been an absolute beast at one time or another, or entered the team as an incredible personality in eSports that of course any team would pick up. IdrA is one of the most successful foreigners in history, Incontrol (not going to try and do the capitalization right) was very consistently high placed in early MLGs, etc., and is captain of the team (the captain is often not the best player, or even a middle of the pack player on a team, but the best leader as in this case). HuK had his time of foreign dominance, Puma too, JaeDong is raping face right now in Proleague and individual tournaments, etc. etc. etc. Let's not even get into Stephano. All I will say about that is that he is the best foreigner ever in terms of results. Period. Just by results, it is objectively true. Moreover, what about Suppy and Xenocider? They picked them up as complete unknowns. Now, Suppy is doing really well internationally and Xenocider has yet to be on the team for more than a month so there's not much to say about him other than the fact that EG does NOT just pick up personalities. Oz, aLive, JYP, Revival, and ThorZain continue to do very well for themselves in Proleague and otherwise, and none of them were or are huge personalities when EG picked them up and kept them. They are simply very solid players. I'm not a huge fan of EG, but to say they don't push for results is bullshit. Sure, they release a lot of media and one or two of their players are mostly focused on that media, but that doesn't mean results don't come number one. The fact that they just opened up a media production house and team house separately in San Fran evidences this. Incontrol and the managers will stay in the media house mostly from what he's said, and the rest of EG while in the States will practice in the team house. The money-making part of EG (the smaller part by far, especially when it concerns their players under contract) allows the competitive part to perform and go to tournaments, and also they allow the rest of the team to aquire and keep players with good salary. Ain't shit wrong with that. i dont even read your super long post making this reply im just trying to decipher the original poster what he's meant by "accomplishment > money" anyway most EG player got caught in EG's curse, maybe thats what he means only stephano retains his champion status, but even he was declining after joining EG he never won any 1st place aside WCS Europe after joins EG (Lone Star Clash is not premier, so i dunno what u think about it) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stephanocomparing result in top 3 minimal at 2013 3rd place : HSCVII - TLO 2nd place : HSCVII - Snute 1st Place : HSCVII - Taeja, WCSAM - HerO 3rd place : - 2nd place : Dreamhack Summer - Jaedong, WCS AM - Revival, WCS EU - Stephano 1st place : - EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners but less result im not getting into 2012 yet (most stephano's throphy is during his stint at millenium) Maybe you should read the post, because it addresses lots of what you're saying. You're not taking into account, for example, that EG's Koreans (every single one) were still in Korea for ProLeague instead of being at HSC, while Liquid had 4 players, one of them Korean and who ended up winning, at HSC VII. Comparing the performance of EG at HSC to Liquid is moronic, because Liquid was much more invested in the tournament. Moreover, 3 second place finishes, all in Premier tournaments , is just as impressive to me as a first place in WCSAM. HSC, again, can't really be compared because EG did not send a single one of their players that you're saying is supposedely "better." EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners Moreover, to not get into 2012 is, again, moronic. EG excelled in 2012 and comparing the teams as overall dynasties requires that you look at everything they've together. EG gets results, it's absolutely fallacious and ridiculous to suggest otherwise. 2012 3rd place : DH Stockholm - Ret, IEM VI Sao Paolo - Ret, Bnet Asia - HerO, Code S S2 - HerO, IPL Tournament of champs - HerO, Code S S4 - Taeja, MLG Summer Champs - Taeja 2nd place : DH Winter - Taeja 1st place : DH Valencia - Taeja, DH Winter - HerO, NASL S4 - HerO, ASUS ROG 2012 - Taeja, MLG Summer Arena - Taeja 3rd place : MLG Winter Arena 3- HuK, HSC IV - JYP, ASUS ROG Winter - PuMa 2nd place : IEM WC VI - PuMa 1st place : WCS EU - Stephano Alive win IPL and 3rd in GSL Jan as fnatic player thorzain win DH stockholm as Mouz player stephano win NASL S3, 3rd in DH Summer, 3rd in Spring arena, 2nd ASUS ROG Winter as Millenium player Oz 3rd at MLG Summer arena as fnatic player Snute won HSC VI as GamesLeague player in 2012 Liquid-------EG 3rd = 7-----3 2nd = 1----1 1st = 5-----1 EG player starts declining after joins EG, like Alive, Thorzain, stephano (Oz never won anything anyway) contrary to liquid, taeja and hero starts winning after they join liquid PS : why do u call me moronic Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:
EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners
but less result
So because successful EG players don't win as much of their success after they join EG, it must be that EG has come supernatural curse preventing them from winning and they are hellbent on getting their players to make money and not practice?
Do you really think EG is that fucking stupid? EG focuses on results, it has nothing to do with their focus. It has to do with players joining after their prime and simple bad luck. Liquid picks up unknowns, EG often doesn't. That doesn't mean their focus is wrong, EG simply has acquired the wrong players and Liquid's gambles in the early stages of SC2 paid off.
The reason I call you moronic is because you seems to buy into this perception that EG just doesn't care about results. And it's bullshit, no matter how you slice it.
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good job Taeja, also happy for TLO to get a trophy finally lol
Just saw the finals VOD. There was no cheering, no happiness, no yelling no music what so ever after he won. On the second thought I was reminded of the finals celebration 1 week back from Dreamhack. Completely different experience. Very awkward "ceremony", TaKe talking totally awkwardly all the time, rotti must have felt so lost it seems.
zZzzzz
overall, fun tournament, quite a few fun moments to laugh about.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On June 24 2013 11:57 Nuclease wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:34 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 11:07 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 09:48 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:33 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 08:55 Bagration wrote:On June 24 2013 08:51 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On June 24 2013 08:37 RagequitBM wrote:
TLO really shows that with good dedication you can become amazing. He wasn't a very good player before, but after starting, and following his schedule he's become a fantastic Zerg. Really inspiring. it's what I love about TL. accomplishment > money =) There's not really much difference. Accomplishment and money are closely related, win more, and you get more money. Very rarely do you trade one for the other. You either get both, or you have trouble getting either one i think he's refering to EG get high wages but not much of accomplishment Wut? Every single one of their players has been an absolute beast at one time or another, or entered the team as an incredible personality in eSports that of course any team would pick up. IdrA is one of the most successful foreigners in history, Incontrol (not going to try and do the capitalization right) was very consistently high placed in early MLGs, etc., and is captain of the team (the captain is often not the best player, or even a middle of the pack player on a team, but the best leader as in this case). HuK had his time of foreign dominance, Puma too, JaeDong is raping face right now in Proleague and individual tournaments, etc. etc. etc. Let's not even get into Stephano. All I will say about that is that he is the best foreigner ever in terms of results. Period. Just by results, it is objectively true. Moreover, what about Suppy and Xenocider? They picked them up as complete unknowns. Now, Suppy is doing really well internationally and Xenocider has yet to be on the team for more than a month so there's not much to say about him other than the fact that EG does NOT just pick up personalities. Oz, aLive, JYP, Revival, and ThorZain continue to do very well for themselves in Proleague and otherwise, and none of them were or are huge personalities when EG picked them up and kept them. They are simply very solid players. I'm not a huge fan of EG, but to say they don't push for results is bullshit. Sure, they release a lot of media and one or two of their players are mostly focused on that media, but that doesn't mean results don't come number one. The fact that they just opened up a media production house and team house separately in San Fran evidences this. Incontrol and the managers will stay in the media house mostly from what he's said, and the rest of EG while in the States will practice in the team house. The money-making part of EG (the smaller part by far, especially when it concerns their players under contract) allows the competitive part to perform and go to tournaments, and also they allow the rest of the team to aquire and keep players with good salary. Ain't shit wrong with that. i dont even read your super long post making this reply im just trying to decipher the original poster what he's meant by "accomplishment > money" anyway most EG player got caught in EG's curse, maybe thats what he means only stephano retains his champion status, but even he was declining after joining EG he never won any 1st place aside WCS Europe after joins EG (Lone Star Clash is not premier, so i dunno what u think about it) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stephanocomparing result in top 3 minimal at 2013 3rd place : HSCVII - TLO 2nd place : HSCVII - Snute 1st Place : HSCVII - Taeja, WCSAM - HerO 3rd place : - 2nd place : Dreamhack Summer - Jaedong, WCS AM - Revival, WCS EU - Stephano 1st place : - EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners but less result im not getting into 2012 yet (most stephano's throphy is during his stint at millenium) Maybe you should read the post, because it addresses lots of what you're saying. You're not taking into account, for example, that EG's Koreans (every single one) were still in Korea for ProLeague instead of being at HSC, while Liquid had 4 players, one of them Korean and who ended up winning, at HSC VII. Comparing the performance of EG at HSC to Liquid is moronic, because Liquid was much more invested in the tournament. Moreover, 3 second place finishes, all in Premier tournaments , is just as impressive to me as a first place in WCSAM. HSC, again, can't really be compared because EG did not send a single one of their players that you're saying is supposedely "better." EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners Moreover, to not get into 2012 is, again, moronic. EG excelled in 2012 and comparing the teams as overall dynasties requires that you look at everything they've together. EG gets results, it's absolutely fallacious and ridiculous to suggest otherwise. 2012 3rd place : DH Stockholm - Ret, IEM VI Sao Paolo - Ret, Bnet Asia - HerO, Code S S2 - HerO, IPL Tournament of champs - HerO, Code S S4 - Taeja, MLG Summer Champs - Taeja 2nd place : DH Winter - Taeja 1st place : DH Valencia - Taeja, DH Winter - HerO, NASL S4 - HerO, ASUS ROG 2012 - Taeja, MLG Summer Arena - Taeja 3rd place : MLG Winter Arena 3- HuK, HSC IV - JYP, ASUS ROG Winter - PuMa 2nd place : IEM WC VI - PuMa 1st place : WCS EU - Stephano Alive win IPL and 3rd in GSL Jan as fnatic player thorzain win DH stockholm as Mouz player stephano win NASL S3, 3rd in DH Summer, 3rd in Spring arena, 2nd ASUS ROG Winter as Millenium player Oz 3rd at MLG Summer arena as fnatic player Snute won HSC VI as GamesLeague player in 2012 Liquid-------EG 3rd = 7-----3 2nd = 1----1 1st = 5-----1 EG player starts declining after joins EG, like Alive, Thorzain, stephano (Oz never won anything anyway) contrary to liquid, taeja and hero starts winning after they join liquid PS : why do u call me moronic On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:
EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners
but less result
So because successful EG players don't win as much of their success after they join EG, it must be that EG has come supernatural curse preventing them from winning and they are hellbent on getting their players to make money and not practice?Do you really think EG is that fucking stupid? EG focuses on results, it has nothing to do with their focus. It has to do with players joining after their prime and simple bad luck. Liquid picks up unknowns, EG often doesn't. That doesn't mean their focus is wrong, EG simply has acquired the wrong players and Liquid's gambles in the early stages of SC2 paid off.
It's called being a sports fan, yo. Fans attach ridiculous superstitions to their teams (or rivals). It's an absurd part of the fun. For example I try my best not to watch IM players live, because they lose when I watch them. I haven't seen an Arsenal game in years because they keep breaking my heart when I do. Stupid superstitions like this make being a fan fun. And kinda crazy.
Also, in 2012 and earlier, EG focused more on marketing. I don't remember the exact words, but a press release from EG insisted that there was more to esports than winning. Esports is a marketing game, and a business. However in 2013 EG is showing that they are heavily investing into building a winning team. It is a nice change, and I like EG more for it even though I'm still not a fan.
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On June 24 2013 11:29 Shock710 wrote:
I remember there being a site where they organised VODS from tournaments, anyone know a link to that site???
Sc2links.com?
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Amazing amazing Taeja!! So happy for u!!!
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EPT
