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Liquid have the best foreigners!
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On June 24 2013 11:57 Nuclease wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:34 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 11:07 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 09:48 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:33 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 08:55 Bagration wrote:On June 24 2013 08:51 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On June 24 2013 08:37 RagequitBM wrote:
TLO really shows that with good dedication you can become amazing. He wasn't a very good player before, but after starting, and following his schedule he's become a fantastic Zerg. Really inspiring. it's what I love about TL. accomplishment > money =) There's not really much difference. Accomplishment and money are closely related, win more, and you get more money. Very rarely do you trade one for the other. You either get both, or you have trouble getting either one i think he's refering to EG get high wages but not much of accomplishment Wut? Every single one of their players has been an absolute beast at one time or another, or entered the team as an incredible personality in eSports that of course any team would pick up. IdrA is one of the most successful foreigners in history, Incontrol (not going to try and do the capitalization right) was very consistently high placed in early MLGs, etc., and is captain of the team (the captain is often not the best player, or even a middle of the pack player on a team, but the best leader as in this case). HuK had his time of foreign dominance, Puma too, JaeDong is raping face right now in Proleague and individual tournaments, etc. etc. etc. Let's not even get into Stephano. All I will say about that is that he is the best foreigner ever in terms of results. Period. Just by results, it is objectively true. Moreover, what about Suppy and Xenocider? They picked them up as complete unknowns. Now, Suppy is doing really well internationally and Xenocider has yet to be on the team for more than a month so there's not much to say about him other than the fact that EG does NOT just pick up personalities. Oz, aLive, JYP, Revival, and ThorZain continue to do very well for themselves in Proleague and otherwise, and none of them were or are huge personalities when EG picked them up and kept them. They are simply very solid players. I'm not a huge fan of EG, but to say they don't push for results is bullshit. Sure, they release a lot of media and one or two of their players are mostly focused on that media, but that doesn't mean results don't come number one. The fact that they just opened up a media production house and team house separately in San Fran evidences this. Incontrol and the managers will stay in the media house mostly from what he's said, and the rest of EG while in the States will practice in the team house. The money-making part of EG (the smaller part by far, especially when it concerns their players under contract) allows the competitive part to perform and go to tournaments, and also they allow the rest of the team to aquire and keep players with good salary. Ain't shit wrong with that. i dont even read your super long post making this reply im just trying to decipher the original poster what he's meant by "accomplishment > money" anyway most EG player got caught in EG's curse, maybe thats what he means only stephano retains his champion status, but even he was declining after joining EG he never won any 1st place aside WCS Europe after joins EG (Lone Star Clash is not premier, so i dunno what u think about it) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stephanocomparing result in top 3 minimal at 2013 3rd place : HSCVII - TLO 2nd place : HSCVII - Snute 1st Place : HSCVII - Taeja, WCSAM - HerO 3rd place : - 2nd place : Dreamhack Summer - Jaedong, WCS AM - Revival, WCS EU - Stephano 1st place : - EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners but less result im not getting into 2012 yet (most stephano's throphy is during his stint at millenium) Maybe you should read the post, because it addresses lots of what you're saying. You're not taking into account, for example, that EG's Koreans (every single one) were still in Korea for ProLeague instead of being at HSC, while Liquid had 4 players, one of them Korean and who ended up winning, at HSC VII. Comparing the performance of EG at HSC to Liquid is moronic, because Liquid was much more invested in the tournament. Moreover, 3 second place finishes, all in Premier tournaments , is just as impressive to me as a first place in WCSAM. HSC, again, can't really be compared because EG did not send a single one of their players that you're saying is supposedely "better." EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners Moreover, to not get into 2012 is, again, moronic. EG excelled in 2012 and comparing the teams as overall dynasties requires that you look at everything they've together. EG gets results, it's absolutely fallacious and ridiculous to suggest otherwise. 2012 3rd place : DH Stockholm - Ret, IEM VI Sao Paolo - Ret, Bnet Asia - HerO, Code S S2 - HerO, IPL Tournament of champs - HerO, Code S S4 - Taeja, MLG Summer Champs - Taeja 2nd place : DH Winter - Taeja 1st place : DH Valencia - Taeja, DH Winter - HerO, NASL S4 - HerO, ASUS ROG 2012 - Taeja, MLG Summer Arena - Taeja 3rd place : MLG Winter Arena 3- HuK, HSC IV - JYP, ASUS ROG Winter - PuMa 2nd place : IEM WC VI - PuMa 1st place : WCS EU - Stephano Alive win IPL and 3rd in GSL Jan as fnatic player thorzain win DH stockholm as Mouz player stephano win NASL S3, 3rd in DH Summer, 3rd in Spring arena, 2nd ASUS ROG Winter as Millenium player Oz 3rd at MLG Summer arena as fnatic player Snute won HSC VI as GamesLeague player in 2012 Liquid-------EG 3rd = 7-----3 2nd = 1----1 1st = 5-----1 EG player starts declining after joins EG, like Alive, Thorzain, stephano (Oz never won anything anyway) contrary to liquid, taeja and hero starts winning after they join liquid PS : why do u call me moronic  On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:
EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners
but less result
So because successful EG players don't win as much of their success after they join EG, it must be that EG has come supernatural curse preventing them from winning and they are hellbent on getting their players to make money and not practice? Do you really think EG is that fucking stupid? EG focuses on results, it has nothing to do with their focus. It has to do with players joining after their prime and simple bad luck. Liquid picks up unknowns, EG often doesn't. That doesn't mean their focus is wrong, EG simply has acquired the wrong players and Liquid's gambles in the early stages of SC2 paid off. The reason I call you moronic is because you seems to buy into this perception that EG just doesn't care about results. And it's bullshit, no matter how you slice it.
i dont know why u thought i think that EG dont care about result
im just quoting a person that says "accomplishment > money"
which i understand to be "EG buy this and that famous player still has less accomplishment then not so boast-full liquid"
anyway i'll talk to you later when u have facts and data
cause it seemed i gathered all my data and u just say what u want
its unfair
PS : some poster above stated that EG in 2012 focused on marketing, u should start arguing with him, i prefer facts and data
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I really wish the people arguing about the EG curse in this thread could realize how stupid they sound.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On June 24 2013 12:28 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 11:57 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 11:34 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 11:07 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 09:48 Nuclease wrote:On June 24 2013 09:33 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 08:55 Bagration wrote:On June 24 2013 08:51 xXFireandIceXx wrote:On June 24 2013 08:37 RagequitBM wrote:
TLO really shows that with good dedication you can become amazing. He wasn't a very good player before, but after starting, and following his schedule he's become a fantastic Zerg. Really inspiring. it's what I love about TL. accomplishment > money =) There's not really much difference. Accomplishment and money are closely related, win more, and you get more money. Very rarely do you trade one for the other. You either get both, or you have trouble getting either one i think he's refering to EG get high wages but not much of accomplishment Wut? Every single one of their players has been an absolute beast at one time or another, or entered the team as an incredible personality in eSports that of course any team would pick up. IdrA is one of the most successful foreigners in history, Incontrol (not going to try and do the capitalization right) was very consistently high placed in early MLGs, etc., and is captain of the team (the captain is often not the best player, or even a middle of the pack player on a team, but the best leader as in this case). HuK had his time of foreign dominance, Puma too, JaeDong is raping face right now in Proleague and individual tournaments, etc. etc. etc. Let's not even get into Stephano. All I will say about that is that he is the best foreigner ever in terms of results. Period. Just by results, it is objectively true. Moreover, what about Suppy and Xenocider? They picked them up as complete unknowns. Now, Suppy is doing really well internationally and Xenocider has yet to be on the team for more than a month so there's not much to say about him other than the fact that EG does NOT just pick up personalities. Oz, aLive, JYP, Revival, and ThorZain continue to do very well for themselves in Proleague and otherwise, and none of them were or are huge personalities when EG picked them up and kept them. They are simply very solid players. I'm not a huge fan of EG, but to say they don't push for results is bullshit. Sure, they release a lot of media and one or two of their players are mostly focused on that media, but that doesn't mean results don't come number one. The fact that they just opened up a media production house and team house separately in San Fran evidences this. Incontrol and the managers will stay in the media house mostly from what he's said, and the rest of EG while in the States will practice in the team house. The money-making part of EG (the smaller part by far, especially when it concerns their players under contract) allows the competitive part to perform and go to tournaments, and also they allow the rest of the team to aquire and keep players with good salary. Ain't shit wrong with that. i dont even read your super long post making this reply im just trying to decipher the original poster what he's meant by "accomplishment > money" anyway most EG player got caught in EG's curse, maybe thats what he means only stephano retains his champion status, but even he was declining after joining EG he never won any 1st place aside WCS Europe after joins EG (Lone Star Clash is not premier, so i dunno what u think about it) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Stephanocomparing result in top 3 minimal at 2013 3rd place : HSCVII - TLO 2nd place : HSCVII - Snute 1st Place : HSCVII - Taeja, WCSAM - HerO 3rd place : - 2nd place : Dreamhack Summer - Jaedong, WCS AM - Revival, WCS EU - Stephano 1st place : - EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners but less result im not getting into 2012 yet (most stephano's throphy is during his stint at millenium) Maybe you should read the post, because it addresses lots of what you're saying. You're not taking into account, for example, that EG's Koreans (every single one) were still in Korea for ProLeague instead of being at HSC, while Liquid had 4 players, one of them Korean and who ended up winning, at HSC VII. Comparing the performance of EG at HSC to Liquid is moronic, because Liquid was much more invested in the tournament. Moreover, 3 second place finishes, all in Premier tournaments , is just as impressive to me as a first place in WCSAM. HSC, again, can't really be compared because EG did not send a single one of their players that you're saying is supposedely "better." EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners Moreover, to not get into 2012 is, again, moronic. EG excelled in 2012 and comparing the teams as overall dynasties requires that you look at everything they've together. EG gets results, it's absolutely fallacious and ridiculous to suggest otherwise. 2012 3rd place : DH Stockholm - Ret, IEM VI Sao Paolo - Ret, Bnet Asia - HerO, Code S S2 - HerO, IPL Tournament of champs - HerO, Code S S4 - Taeja, MLG Summer Champs - Taeja 2nd place : DH Winter - Taeja 1st place : DH Valencia - Taeja, DH Winter - HerO, NASL S4 - HerO, ASUS ROG 2012 - Taeja, MLG Summer Arena - Taeja 3rd place : MLG Winter Arena 3- HuK, HSC IV - JYP, ASUS ROG Winter - PuMa 2nd place : IEM WC VI - PuMa 1st place : WCS EU - Stephano Alive win IPL and 3rd in GSL Jan as fnatic player thorzain win DH stockholm as Mouz player stephano win NASL S3, 3rd in DH Summer, 3rd in Spring arena, 2nd ASUS ROG Winter as Millenium player Oz 3rd at MLG Summer arena as fnatic player Snute won HSC VI as GamesLeague player in 2012 Liquid-------EG 3rd = 7-----3 2nd = 1----1 1st = 5-----1 EG player starts declining after joins EG, like Alive, Thorzain, stephano (Oz never won anything anyway) contrary to liquid, taeja and hero starts winning after they join liquid PS : why do u call me moronic On June 24 2013 09:56 Vertical wrote:
EG has more players, more koreans, better foreigners
but less result
So because successful EG players don't win as much of their success after they join EG, it must be that EG has come supernatural curse preventing them from winning and they are hellbent on getting their players to make money and not practice? Do you really think EG is that fucking stupid? EG focuses on results, it has nothing to do with their focus. It has to do with players joining after their prime and simple bad luck. Liquid picks up unknowns, EG often doesn't. That doesn't mean their focus is wrong, EG simply has acquired the wrong players and Liquid's gambles in the early stages of SC2 paid off. The reason I call you moronic is because you seems to buy into this perception that EG just doesn't care about results. And it's bullshit, no matter how you slice it. PS : some poster above stated that EG in 2012 focused on marketing, u should start arguing with him, i prefer facts and data
“Performance is important, but not necessary, to be honest with you,” Garfield said. “There’s that, there’s players’ fanbases, and there’s marketability. That’s why we can employ someone like iNcontroL [Geoff Robinson], and pay him a very very good salary in line with the top performing players in the world.” source
"It’s not really a result of EG being a pro team, but the fact that EG is a really good marketing agency that knows how to show value to brands. I think there is this misconception both within the eyes of the community itself, and even within the eyes of the pro gamers who do get the industry very well, that if you win a lot, you’re going to get sponsorships. And that’s just not at all how things have worked for us. In fact, it would be the exact opposite. We have a really good model by which we can take established players and show companies value through them." source
Again, this isn't a bad thing. Esports is also a business, and will only succeed if the business side is done well. And like I mentioned earlier, EG has been showing signs of pushing for success (Coach Park, signing more depth for PL, signing unknowns, etc) over marketing recently
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On June 24 2013 12:50 Doodsmack wrote:
I really wish the people arguing about the EG curse in this thread could realize how stupid they sound.
EG curse is just a term used for players that in fact (as i list them above) declining in terms of achivement after they joined EG
the curse itself is just for fun, but the results are fact
On June 24 2013 12:53 lichter wrote:“Performance is important, but not necessary, to be honest with you,” Garfield said. “There’s that, there’s players’ fanbases, and there’s marketability. That’s why we can employ someone like iNcontroL [Geoff Robinson], and pay him a very very good salary in line with the top performing players in the world.” source"It’s not really a result of EG being a pro team, but the fact that EG is a really good marketing agency that knows how to show value to brands. I think there is this misconception both within the eyes of the community itself, and even within the eyes of the pro gamers who do get the industry very well, that if you win a lot, you’re going to get sponsorships. And that’s just not at all how things have worked for us. In fact, it would be the exact opposite. We have a really good model by which we can take established players and show companies value through them." sourceAgain, this isn't a bad thing. Esports is also a business, and will only succeed if the business side is done well. And like I mentioned earlier, EG has been showing signs of pushing for success (Coach Park, signing more depth for PL, signing unknowns, etc) over marketing recently
now this is a healthy discussion
nice to include the source
and thx for sharing
i also dont think that this is wrong
everything needs money
there's nothing wrong for monetize it if they got the chance
it does feel wrong to call people moron without any basis
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tlo 2-3 vs taeja
snute 3-4 vs taeja
close europe ... so close
but 2nd and 3rd foreign with seeing the other koreans lost 0-X to taeja is nice
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On June 24 2013 12:55 Vertical wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 12:50 Doodsmack wrote:
I really wish the people arguing about the EG curse in this thread could realize how stupid they sound. EG curse is just a term used for players that in fact (as i list them above) declining in terms of achivement after they joined EG the curse itself is just for fun, but the results are fact Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 12:53 lichter wrote:“Performance is important, but not necessary, to be honest with you,” Garfield said. “There’s that, there’s players’ fanbases, and there’s marketability. That’s why we can employ someone like iNcontroL [Geoff Robinson], and pay him a very very good salary in line with the top performing players in the world.” source"It’s not really a result of EG being a pro team, but the fact that EG is a really good marketing agency that knows how to show value to brands. I think there is this misconception both within the eyes of the community itself, and even within the eyes of the pro gamers who do get the industry very well, that if you win a lot, you’re going to get sponsorships. And that’s just not at all how things have worked for us. In fact, it would be the exact opposite. We have a really good model by which we can take established players and show companies value through them." sourceAgain, this isn't a bad thing. Esports is also a business, and will only succeed if the business side is done well. And like I mentioned earlier, EG has been showing signs of pushing for success (Coach Park, signing more depth for PL, signing unknowns, etc) over marketing recently now this is a healthy discussion nice to include the source and thx for sharing i also dont think that this is wrong everything needs money there's nothing wrong for monetize it if they got the chance it does feel wrong to call people moron without any basis
Stop talking.
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Great to see a Liquid Podium. I expected such a performance from Taeja but TLO and Snute showed such amazing play, GJ guys!
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On June 24 2013 13:34 CoR wrote:
tlo 2-3 vs taeja
snute 3-4 vs taeja
close europe ... so close
but 2nd and 3rd foreign with seeing the other koreans lost 0-X to taeja is nice
Western Koreans man. huehuehue.
On June 24 2013 13:35 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 12:55 Vertical wrote:On June 24 2013 12:50 Doodsmack wrote:
I really wish the people arguing about the EG curse in this thread could realize how stupid they sound. EG curse is just a term used for players that in fact (as i list them above) declining in terms of achivement after they joined EG the curse itself is just for fun, but the results are fact On June 24 2013 12:53 lichter wrote:“Performance is important, but not necessary, to be honest with you,” Garfield said. “There’s that, there’s players’ fanbases, and there’s marketability. That’s why we can employ someone like iNcontroL [Geoff Robinson], and pay him a very very good salary in line with the top performing players in the world.” source"It’s not really a result of EG being a pro team, but the fact that EG is a really good marketing agency that knows how to show value to brands. I think there is this misconception both within the eyes of the community itself, and even within the eyes of the pro gamers who do get the industry very well, that if you win a lot, you’re going to get sponsorships. And that’s just not at all how things have worked for us. In fact, it would be the exact opposite. We have a really good model by which we can take established players and show companies value through them." sourceAgain, this isn't a bad thing. Esports is also a business, and will only succeed if the business side is done well. And like I mentioned earlier, EG has been showing signs of pushing for success (Coach Park, signing more depth for PL, signing unknowns, etc) over marketing recently now this is a healthy discussion nice to include the source and thx for sharing i also dont think that this is wrong everything needs money there's nothing wrong for monetize it if they got the chance it does feel wrong to call people moron without any basis Stop talking.
That's not going to do anything bud. You just have to deal with it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
On June 24 2013 13:42 Steel wrote:
Great to see a Liquid Podium. I expected such a performance from Taeja but TLO and Snute showed such amazing play, GJ guys!
I expected Taeja's meh play, but hey it still won out the day so props to him I guess. Dario just keeps finishing high and Snute keeps doing his thing as well. I'd say it's clear skies ahead for the TL boys.
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Grats Liquid! Makes it difficult to cheer for anyone when the top four players are such likable personalities.
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a terran player won? Must be something wrong...well...Grats to TL! Great Stuff for Taeja!
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Will there be shirts on sale?
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Oi Take, run Australian qualifiers next time ok?
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
gz Taeja! wooooooooooooooo
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are the vods up for the final day?
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haha, that balance whine from iNcontroL at the finals about only one Protoss making top 8 (when there were in fact two Protosses top 8). Did he already forget about Dreamhack?
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TLO is so fucking good right now. He is really, in my opinion, one of the top 5 zergs in the world right now. His mechanics are looking so graceful and his decision making and game sense are looking brilliantly inspired. Im excited to see where he takes this new form. I Hope he decides to take on GSL, as I think he would be able to surprise himself with how well he would do in his current form and continue to increase his momentum.
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EPT
