sending out jaedong first is such a good choice, his zvz and zvt are his best matchups so its a good way to draw out jangbi or roro early on should JD take the first match. interested in how this one will turn out.
On May 20 2013 15:20 Waxangel wrote: KOP IS NO EUROPEAN
welcome to Europe Kop
First thing we need to do is get his HPM to at least 100.
What's HPM? I've heard people talking/joking(?) about it, but I still can't figure it out
Hellbats per mineral. It's the best metric when predicting a Terran's winrate.
I thought it was hellbats per minute
Per mineral accounts for the Terran spending money on other units when they should be spending it on more Hellbats. Hellbats per minute only accounts for how many they make.
On May 20 2013 15:20 Waxangel wrote: KOP IS NO EUROPEAN
welcome to Europe Kop
First thing we need to do is get his HPM to at least 100.
What's HPM? I've heard people talking/joking(?) about it, but I still can't figure it out
Hellbats per mineral. It's the best metric when predicting a Terran's winrate.
I thought it was hellbats per minute
Per mineral accounts for the Terran spending money on other units when they should be spending it on more Hellbats. Hellbats per minute only accounts for how many they make.
But they could be spending it on command centers to make more hellbats!
On May 20 2013 15:20 Waxangel wrote: KOP IS NO EUROPEAN
welcome to Europe Kop
First thing we need to do is get his HPM to at least 100.
What's HPM? I've heard people talking/joking(?) about it, but I still can't figure it out
Hellbats per mineral. It's the best metric when predicting a Terran's winrate.
I thought it was hellbats per minute
Per mineral accounts for the Terran spending money on other units when they should be spending it on more Hellbats. Hellbats per minute only accounts for how many they make.
But they could be spending it on command centers to make more hellbats!
Which will inevitably increase his HPM. That's the beauty of the metric.
On May 20 2013 15:47 ujonecro wrote: Lol do they know you can click on a building to see what is warping?
Lol did you know that Jaedong never got vision of the actual building?
He did with those lings.
No he didnt, he only saw the twilight council so he thought it was, but wasnt sure.
In any case, nice choice of build by Jangbi after killing the pool and Lair
He saw a twilight council that wasn't upgrading. Given the timing, that pretty much means it has to be DT's, chargelot archon and 2/2 hit later. You gotta get spores immediately against that shit.
going 3 base and didn't scout your opponent? Is is so difficult to get your ovie to the back of opponent's base? Come on, what did he expect Jangbi to do?
On May 20 2013 15:47 ujonecro wrote: Lol do they know you can click on a building to see what is warping?
Lol did you know that Jaedong never got vision of the actual building?
He did with those lings.
No he didnt, he only saw the twilight council so he thought it was, but wasnt sure.
In any case, nice choice of build by Jangbi after killing the pool and Lair
He saw a twilight council that wasn't upgrading. Given the timing, that pretty much means it has to be DT's, chargelot archon and 2/2 hit later. You gotta get spores immediately against that shit.
Well, how does one know he saw the twilight council not upgrading something? He had like 1sec to see that considering his lings died very fast and he only caught a glimpse of the twilight council, but yeah if he did see it ofc you are correct, the spore timing was off by like 5 seconds though
On May 20 2013 15:47 ujonecro wrote: Lol do they know you can click on a building to see what is warping?
Lol did you know that Jaedong never got vision of the actual building?
He did with those lings.
No he didnt, he only saw the twilight council so he thought it was, but wasnt sure.
In any case, nice choice of build by Jangbi after killing the pool and Lair
He saw a twilight council that wasn't upgrading. Given the timing, that pretty much means it has to be DT's, chargelot archon and 2/2 hit later. You gotta get spores immediately against that shit.
Well, how does one know he saw the twilight council not upgrading something? He had like 1sec to see that considering his lings died very fast and he only caught a glimpse of the twilight council, but yeah if he did see it ofc you are correct, the spore timing was off by like 5 seconds though
I mean, it's the timing, he saw 3 gas and the twilight. There's no blink timing right then that's any good, it's too early for that off 3 gas, you won't have +2 done in time for the all-in, and +2 blink all-in is vastly superior to +1 blink all-in sooner. The spores aren't that big of an investment. He also didn't scout with the overlord at the bottom of the base that was right there, and his one that came in from the top stopped halfway into the base despite still being alive (it could have made it if it hadn't stopped). Also, the forcefield to stop scouting in the mineral line should have also been a dead give-away.
On May 20 2013 15:47 ujonecro wrote: Lol do they know you can click on a building to see what is warping?
Lol did you know that Jaedong never got vision of the actual building?
He did with those lings.
No he didnt, he only saw the twilight council so he thought it was, but wasnt sure.
In any case, nice choice of build by Jangbi after killing the pool and Lair
He saw a twilight council that wasn't upgrading. Given the timing, that pretty much means it has to be DT's, chargelot archon and 2/2 hit later. You gotta get spores immediately against that shit.
Well, how does one know he saw the twilight council not upgrading something? He had like 1sec to see that considering his lings died very fast and he only caught a glimpse of the twilight council, but yeah if he did see it ofc you are correct, the spore timing was off by like 5 seconds though
When you get an in-base scout like that at a critical time like that, you're absolutely going to be looking at everything and clicking on buildings that are warping in so you know what they are and watching to see which structures are researching/upgrading.
On May 20 2013 15:47 ujonecro wrote: Lol do they know you can click on a building to see what is warping?
Lol did you know that Jaedong never got vision of the actual building?
He did with those lings.
No he didnt, he only saw the twilight council so he thought it was, but wasnt sure.
In any case, nice choice of build by Jangbi after killing the pool and Lair
He saw a twilight council that wasn't upgrading. Given the timing, that pretty much means it has to be DT's, chargelot archon and 2/2 hit later. You gotta get spores immediately against that shit.
Well, how does one know he saw the twilight council not upgrading something? He had like 1sec to see that considering his lings died very fast and he only caught a glimpse of the twilight council, but yeah if he did see it ofc you are correct, the spore timing was off by like 5 seconds though
When you get an in-base scout like that at a critical time like that, you're absolutely going to be looking at everything and clicking on buildings that are warping in so you know what they are and watching to see which structures are researching/upgrading.
Not to mention that any twilight that's upgrading around then will be chrono boosted continuously, and that had no chrono on it at all.
If Whiplash and SNM are Protoss players, as they right said. And so are Tastosis. Does that mean most commentators play P? Khaldor is Z, right? What does Wolf play?
On May 20 2013 16:03 Ghanburighan wrote: If Whiplash and SNM are Protoss players, as they right said. And so are Tastosis. Does that mean most commentators play P? Khaldor is Z, right? What does Wolf play?
On May 20 2013 16:03 lichter wrote: What happened I was working
JD lost to Jangbi, Jangbi got some PC problems right now
Oh noes, SPL downtime+PC problems = urrrgghghhh
And aww JD, oh well at least it was Jangbi who won. I still want to see roro play, for no particular reasons he's one of the few zergs besides JD i enjoy watching (and I mostly enjoy watching the dong because it's the dong, he does lack in some areas of play :X)
Proleague...always so frickin slow. I wish they'd let me know when they're going to take 20 minutes b/w games so I could go like take a shower or something
On May 20 2013 16:03 Ghanburighan wrote: If Whiplash and SNM are Protoss players, as they right said. And so are Tastosis. Does that mean most commentators play P? Khaldor is Z, right? What does Wolf play?
On May 20 2013 16:30 Zenbrez wrote: Park is gonna give Oz a little something something tonight.
Why?
It's been kinda known for over a year now that Oz is awful at PvP. It's like throwing a twelve-year-old into a fight with a pro boxer. Don't blame the little kid for getting his ass kicked.
On May 20 2013 16:30 Zenbrez wrote: Park is gonna give Oz a little something something tonight.
Why?
It's been kinda known for over a year now that Oz is awful at PvP. It's like throwing a twelve-year-old into a fight with a pro boxer. Don't blame the little kid for getting his ass kicked.
And I remember people saying he was PvP specialist, lol.
On May 20 2013 16:30 Zenbrez wrote: Park is gonna give Oz a little something something tonight.
Why?
It's been kinda known for over a year now that Oz is awful at PvP. It's like throwing a twelve-year-old into a fight with a pro boxer. Don't blame the little kid for getting his ass kicked.
On May 20 2013 16:31 Shellshock1122 wrote: They could get State for cheaper than Jim probably. He has better PvP too. He said he enjoyed his time in Korea last time and is currently teamless
On May 20 2013 16:31 Shellshock1122 wrote: They could get State for cheaper than Jim probably. He has better PvP too. He said he enjoyed his time in Korea last time and is currently teamless
I'd love to see State on EG and play full time
With the way State, JYP, and Oz are all playing recently he could be the best protoss on EG tbh. He already beat Oz in WCS and he's doing well in that shoutcraft tournament. Good chance for EG to go for one of those lesser known NA talents instead of just buying out top players
And this Mind time shit is beyond bad. It's gotten to the point to where I don't even want my friends over when I'm watching ProLeague. It's embarrassing.....
Do EG and TL share the same training house in Korea. I am curious because the players dont seem to be preforming well. Is this a practicing or coaching thing?
On May 20 2013 16:42 NightOfTheDead wrote: I hope Flash never joins foreign team, while he is in good shape.
KT pays him a salary of around $200,000+ a year. He's pretty safe.
Not only that but last year the major " annoyance " of being a Kespa player was that you couldn't go to one of the foreign LAN's that happened every weekend or twice a weekend to make easy money, this year foreign LANs barely exist at all.
Asus rog died, IPL died, NASL died, that's half of the major 6 (MLG,IEM,DH,IPL,NASL,Assembly)
On May 20 2013 16:42 NightOfTheDead wrote: I hope Flash never joins foreign team, while he is in good shape.
KT pays him a salary of around $200,000+ a year. He's pretty safe.
Not only that but last year the major " annoyance " of being a Kespa player was that you couldn't go to one of the foreign LAN's that happened every weekend or twice a weekend to make easy money, this year foreign LANs barely exist at all.
Asus rog died, IPL died, NASL died, that's half of the major 6 (MLG,IEM,DH,IPL,NASL,Assembly)
On May 20 2013 16:46 Topdoller wrote: Do EG and TL share the same training house in Korea. I am curious because the players dont seem to be preforming well. Is this a practicing or coaching thing?
Taeja lives at home so it's just Hero/Zeno living there and Hero has been doing ok.
On May 20 2013 16:42 NightOfTheDead wrote: I hope Flash never joins foreign team, while he is in good shape.
KT pays him a salary of around $200,000+ a year. He's pretty safe.
Not only that but last year the major " annoyance " of being a Kespa player was that you couldn't go to one of the foreign LAN's that happened every weekend or twice a weekend to make easy money, this year foreign LANs barely exist at all.
Asus rog died, IPL died, NASL died, that's half of the major 6 (MLG,IEM,DH,IPL,NASL,Assembly)
Rumours that MLG has died too? wasn't there a thread over the weekend suggesting MLG isn't doing SC2 at it's tour this year due to WCS?
On May 20 2013 16:42 NightOfTheDead wrote: I hope Flash never joins foreign team, while he is in good shape.
KT pays him a salary of around $200,000+ a year. He's pretty safe.
Not only that but last year the major " annoyance " of being a Kespa player was that you couldn't go to one of the foreign LAN's that happened every weekend or twice a weekend to make easy money, this year foreign LANs barely exist at all.
Asus rog died, IPL died, NASL died, that's half of the major 6 (MLG,IEM,DH,IPL,NASL,Assembly)
Rumours that MLG has died too? wasn't there a thread over the weekend suggesting MLG isn't doing SC2 at it's tour this year due to WCS?
I can't seem them dropping sc2, people will still watch big weekend tournaments.
On May 20 2013 16:42 NightOfTheDead wrote: I hope Flash never joins foreign team, while he is in good shape.
KT pays him a salary of around $200,000+ a year. He's pretty safe.
Not only that but last year the major " annoyance " of being a Kespa player was that you couldn't go to one of the foreign LAN's that happened every weekend or twice a weekend to make easy money, this year foreign LANs barely exist at all.
Asus rog died, IPL died, NASL died, that's half of the major 6 (MLG,IEM,DH,IPL,NASL,Assembly)
Rumours that MLG has died too? wasn't there a thread over the weekend suggesting MLG isn't doing SC2 at it's tour this year due to WCS?
I wouldn't believe that, at the last MLG sc2 was the biggest game, It's a huge draw for them. One weekend tournament shouldn't conflict with WCS at all if they can manage dates properly.
On May 20 2013 16:42 NightOfTheDead wrote: I hope Flash never joins foreign team, while he is in good shape.
KT pays him a salary of around $200,000+ a year. He's pretty safe.
Not only that but last year the major " annoyance " of being a Kespa player was that you couldn't go to one of the foreign LAN's that happened every weekend or twice a weekend to make easy money, this year foreign LANs barely exist at all.
Asus rog died, IPL died, NASL died, that's half of the major 6 (MLG,IEM,DH,IPL,NASL,Assembly)
Rumours that MLG has died too? wasn't there a thread over the weekend suggesting MLG isn't doing SC2 at it's tour this year due to WCS?
I can't seem them dropping sc2, people will still watch big weekend tournaments.
Big weekend tournaments will always do better than anything else because It's what we ( the starcraft 2 audience ) " grew up with ".
On May 20 2013 16:42 NightOfTheDead wrote: I hope Flash never joins foreign team, while he is in good shape.
KT pays him a salary of around $200,000+ a year. He's pretty safe.
Not only that but last year the major " annoyance " of being a Kespa player was that you couldn't go to one of the foreign LAN's that happened every weekend or twice a weekend to make easy money, this year foreign LANs barely exist at all.
Asus rog died, IPL died, NASL died, that's half of the major 6 (MLG,IEM,DH,IPL,NASL,Assembly)
Rumours that MLG has died too? wasn't there a thread over the weekend suggesting MLG isn't doing SC2 at it's tour this year due to WCS?
I don't believe that for a second. Despite all the "this game is dying to LoL" bullshit, SC2 is still very profitable and doing VERY well. Shadowrun is a dead game, SC2 isn't. If MLG drops SC2 next year, I'd be shocked. What would they replace it with? It can't make any less money for them than Call of Duty. The game consolidating into fewer, more prestigious tournaments with higher payouts is a good thing. Back in 2011-2012 the game was over saturated with a dozen different tournaments/online leagues/something going on every weekend.
On May 20 2013 16:42 NightOfTheDead wrote: I hope Flash never joins foreign team, while he is in good shape.
KT pays him a salary of around $200,000+ a year. He's pretty safe.
Not only that but last year the major " annoyance " of being a Kespa player was that you couldn't go to one of the foreign LAN's that happened every weekend or twice a weekend to make easy money, this year foreign LANs barely exist at all.
Asus rog died, IPL died, NASL died, that's half of the major 6 (MLG,IEM,DH,IPL,NASL,Assembly)
Rumours that MLG has died too? wasn't there a thread over the weekend suggesting MLG isn't doing SC2 at it's tour this year due to WCS?
I don't believe that for a second. Despite all the "this game is dying to LoL" bullshit, SC2 is still very profitable and doing VERY well. Shadowrun is a dead game, SC2 isn't. If MLG drops SC2 next year, I'd be shocked. What would they replace it with? It can't make any less money for them than Call of Duty.
Plus it's more conveinent to watch, plus more fun as it's all over in 2 days. Also more foreigners and such.
I think it does need a change though, WCS is shit organized BUT it is a good way to do things. 3 Events a year with 1 big finals at BlizzConn. Then you just need your IEM/MLG/DH 1 or 2 tournaments in the downtime of WCS and i would be happy. You don't want too many tourneys or it becomes stale fast.
On May 20 2013 16:42 NightOfTheDead wrote: I hope Flash never joins foreign team, while he is in good shape.
KT pays him a salary of around $200,000+ a year. He's pretty safe.
Not only that but last year the major " annoyance " of being a Kespa player was that you couldn't go to one of the foreign LAN's that happened every weekend or twice a weekend to make easy money, this year foreign LANs barely exist at all.
Asus rog died, IPL died, NASL died, that's half of the major 6 (MLG,IEM,DH,IPL,NASL,Assembly)
Rumours that MLG has died too? wasn't there a thread over the weekend suggesting MLG isn't doing SC2 at it's tour this year due to WCS?
I can't seem them dropping sc2, people will still watch big weekend tournaments.
Big weekend tournaments will always do better than anything else because It's what we ( the starcraft 2 audience ) " grew up with ".
Indeed. It would be nice to hear news about Anahiem tho but I think they haven't said much about the event overall not just the sc2 part.
I'm not sure if I like WCS AM/EU more than more frequent weekend tournaments, I guess It's too early to decide. Even though it was insane I will miss super November's where we had a tournament every single weekend of the month, sometimes 2 per weekend.
On May 20 2013 16:54 Pandemona wrote: Plus it's more conveinent to watch, plus more fun as it's all over in 2 days. Also more foreigners and such.
I think it does need a change though, WCS is shit organized BUT it is a good way to do things. 3 Events a year with 1 big finals at BlizzConn. Then you just need your IEM/MLG/DH 1 or 2 tournaments in the downtime of WCS and i would be happy. You don't want too many tourneys or it becomes stale fast.
WCS should be its own thing like it was last year. It shouldn't be tacked on to anything else. I've always hated this lets run two tournaments at once thing.
On May 20 2013 16:42 NightOfTheDead wrote: I hope Flash never joins foreign team, while he is in good shape.
KT pays him a salary of around $200,000+ a year. He's pretty safe.
Not only that but last year the major " annoyance " of being a Kespa player was that you couldn't go to one of the foreign LAN's that happened every weekend or twice a weekend to make easy money, this year foreign LANs barely exist at all.
Asus rog died, IPL died, NASL died, that's half of the major 6 (MLG,IEM,DH,IPL,NASL,Assembly)
Rumours that MLG has died too? wasn't there a thread over the weekend suggesting MLG isn't doing SC2 at it's tour this year due to WCS?
I can't seem them dropping sc2, people will still watch big weekend tournaments.
Big weekend tournaments will always do better than anything else because It's what we ( the starcraft 2 audience ) " grew up with ".
I miss big weekend tournaments. I feel like the WCS kinda killed that for us. Staying up to watch MLG three days straight online or even in person was tons of fun. And the massive brackets with double elimination!
On May 20 2013 17:04 simmeh wrote: this is intense
Is it?. Its soul destroying to me. War of the Worlds RTS
i think so.. mainly cuz pvp at this point is silly, the deathball armies are so powerful that one bad engagement and you lose the entire game XD
yeah, this was one of the very few lategame PvP engagements that went kinda even (the one were both players had Colossi and Hero had Voids and Jangbi Immortals left) instead of being completely one-sided
EG-TL has become Team Hero since Round 4. When your ace player and the only one you can actually rely on for a win is about 50% win/loss, you're not in a good spot.
Not a bad game for a PvP. It's not a bad a match up as it used to be apparently.
Though wouldn't Hero, in a perfect world, have made a dark shrine somewhere and just warped in 2 or 3 DTs to deal with the gateway units during the base trade? Even if the game was won at that point, I'm sure he could easily have avoided taking that much damage.
I think not dropping into the mineral line was the complete right choice. In the mineral line he might get surrounded and he won't really kill a ton of probes. This way he denied the nexus, oracle had to use envision etc. I think he's very well ahead.
Must be, least he has 3-3 vs 2-2 and has 4 base >.< I do feel he thought he was way more behind then he was...don't get why he didn't just go 2-2 colli and win
On May 20 2013 17:42 samurai80 wrote: The thing is terrans don't really need scvs, they have mules anyway...
Are you serious? They still need them just not as much. There is a reason Hero is getting ahead in supply despite spending resources on double robo bay and expansion while they are both on 3 base.
terran is just turtling praying protoss a-moves in because it's impossible for protoss to attack into these chokes, reality has no intention of ever moving out.
he can most certainly lose the game if he attacks into reality because of ghost viking
On May 20 2013 17:42 samurai80 wrote: The thing is terrans don't really need scvs, they have mules anyway...
Are you serious? They still need them just not as much. There is a reason Hero is getting ahead in supply despite spending resources on double robo bay and expansion while they are both on 3 base.
I was not too much serious to be honest What I meant is that if HerO does the zealot harass in Reality's bases, he has to be at least decently efficient (unless he's maxed) because the damage may not be so huge.
Hero should have dropped a probe into Reality's main and built a nexus in every space possible, Reality wouldn't have been able to kill them all without moving enough of his army back to let Hero roll him at the front, then just recall into his main ;d
Well that was just lol xD Hero waiting to get 5 base and do manner nexus, and Reality figuring out, hey i can't win...xD lolol Still thanks for that waste of time
Hero wasnt necessarily trolling reality. We saw that reality was going for the ultimate end game composition, lots of ghosts and vikings. He could easily roll over Hero's army and his reinforcement warp ins if Hero had one bad engagement. Turtling with cannons outside reality's base and slow seiging it was actually the safest option for Hero to ensure his victory.
On May 20 2013 17:51 Dodgin wrote: Hero should have dropped a probe into Reality's main and built a nexus in every space possible, Reality wouldn't have been able to kill them all without moving enough of his army back to let Hero roll him at the front, then just recall into his main ;d
That's a pretty sick strat yo. Ever considered going pro?
On May 20 2013 17:51 metric.system wrote: I never pictured hero to be the type to do that...
Oh, he's definitely the type to BM his opponent. Maybe not to the same extent, but you can't put it past Hero to put up the manner nexus, manner pylons (he spelled "TL" with pylons during an MLG). Back during WoL he used his mothership to recall probes.
On May 20 2013 17:53 FrozenFrotie wrote: Hero wasnt necessarily trolling reality. We saw that reality was going for the ultimate end game composition, lots of ghosts and vikings. He could easily roll over Hero's army and his reinforcement warp ins if Hero had one bad engagement. Turtling with cannons outside reality's base and slow seiging it was actually the safest option for Hero to ensure his victory.
This actually, it's very easy for protoss to clump up and lose in those choke points with the terran having an arc.
It's an obnoxious way to play by reality, hero can always just sit outside his base and contain while reality sits and never leaves because he knows he can win if hero attacks in. Hero just returned the favor by setting up a giant cannon and nexus wall
On May 20 2013 17:51 ggrrg wrote: Hero with the mindfuck win: No bank, no uber-army, but nexus/cannon wall in front of the opponent's base ^^
Well, he was pretty secure, had like six bases, and reality was stuck on three against a very strong army :p and his bank he spent on the nexus and cannons and pylons lol Hm still a really interesting idea by hero
I love the people getting mad thinking that hero was bming. It was in fact really smart. How could a terran ever engage into 20 cannons, 2 nexus cannons, an entire protoss army and then hold off the 20 gates worth of warp ins?
I have now multiple times seen Reality delay expanding to a point where it gets comical but at the same time neither attacking nor scouting for opponent's bases. This is just weird.
On May 20 2013 17:53 FrozenFrotie wrote: Hero wasnt necessarily trolling reality. We saw that reality was going for the ultimate end game composition, lots of ghosts and vikings. He could easily roll over Hero's army and his reinforcement warp ins if Hero had one bad engagement. Turtling with cannons outside reality's base and slow seiging it was actually the safest option for Hero to ensure his victory.
This actually, it's very easy for protoss to clump up and lose in those choke points with the terran having an arc.
It's an obnoxious way to play by reality, hero can always just sit outside his base and contain while reality sits and never leaves because he knows he can win if hero attacks in. Hero just returned the favor by setting up a giant cannon and nexus wall
You don't need to be afraid as Protoss if you are 50+ supply ahead. HerO could clearly tell that he had an insurmountable advantage for Reality. Even if Ghost/Viking endgame composition is strong and can win every fight, he wasn't nearly maxed, didn't have the bank and especially the economy to sustain or even build up to it. HerO could have easily moved in with 6 colossus against 4 viking and won right there, against not even 3-3 bio.
On May 20 2013 17:53 FrozenFrotie wrote: Hero wasnt necessarily trolling reality. We saw that reality was going for the ultimate end game composition, lots of ghosts and vikings. He could easily roll over Hero's army and his reinforcement warp ins if Hero had one bad engagement. Turtling with cannons outside reality's base and slow seiging it was actually the safest option for Hero to ensure his victory.
This actually, it's very easy for protoss to clump up and lose in those choke points with the terran having an arc.
It's an obnoxious way to play by reality, hero can always just sit outside his base and contain while reality sits and never leaves because he knows he can win if hero attacks in. Hero just returned the favor by setting up a giant cannon and nexus wall
You don't need to be afraid as Protoss if you are 50+ supply ahead. HerO could clearly tell that he had an insurmountable advantage for Reality. Even if Ghost/Viking endgame composition is strong and can win every fight, he wasn't nearly maxed, didn't have the bank and especially the economy to sustain or even build up to it. HerO could have easily moved in with 6 colossus against 4 viking and won right there, against not even 3-3 bio.
I think that HerO didn't know Reality's supply vs his. He didn't have the vision that we had as observers.
it was 5 base vs 2 effective. HerO couldn't lose unless he fought into a choke 3 times reinforcing with the wrong units. He was just starving his opponent out.
On May 20 2013 17:51 metric.system wrote: I never pictured hero to be the type to do that...
I remember him doing it as far back as Dreamhack Winter 2011 where he manner nexus'd Puma in the final game.
Oh and he wrote " TL " or something like that in Pylons at an MLG in mid 2011, I think it was his first tournament after joining Liquid.
Point taken. It just seemed that he's just coming out of a slump and barely regaining his confidence that it felt out of character, not to mention that from everything I've seen of him recently, I pictured him as the creature from the manner lagoon.
That said, I guess it was a strategically sound way to cement his checkmate.
On May 20 2013 18:06 Ghanburighan wrote: I don't play P, why would he get 2 cannons instead of 1?
Maybe there's a great reason that I don't know about, but if he sees them warping in and pulls drones to attack then he can make sure at least one finishes. And there's always a chance a bunch of lings are made and saves the cannoned Hatch. Two cannons makes that pretty unlikely.
On May 20 2013 18:06 Ghanburighan wrote: I don't play P, why would he get 2 cannons instead of 1?
its timed so that if the rush gets scouted earlier and roro decides to pull everything in order to save his hatch, the first cannon will protect the second as well as whatever hero decides to do with his probe
its also supposed to be timed so that the second cannon can be cancelled just after the hatch gets cancelled but hero placed the second one too early and roro let the second one finish before cancelling his hatch; the second cannon was seriously only like 2 seconds early, though
I think Hero is the only EGTL player who has improved his performance since the start of PL, which means his skill level is increasing at least linearly with the rest of the PL players, and faster than most/some of them.
On May 20 2013 18:25 Ghanburighan wrote: A decent storm that misses most of the mutas. So what makes that storm decent? Nice lightning effects for photography?
On May 20 2013 18:25 Ghanburighan wrote: A decent storm that misses most of the mutas. So what makes that storm decent? Nice lightning effects for photography?
Every storm that hits 1+ unit for 1+ ticks is a "great storm". Caster lingo.
On May 20 2013 18:25 Ghanburighan wrote: A decent storm that misses most of the mutas. So what makes that storm decent? Nice lightning effects for photography?
A standard storm is amazing, so one that only hits partially is decent by that metric. It is like selling beverages and only having medium, large, very large.
This is going to be a draw? No chance for RorO to win in a straight engagement atm. And Hero cant leave his base or he will get killed ? (as in base traded)
needs to hit some feedbacks, people complaining about mutas must've watched a different match to me, Hero threw this game by being way to confident making carriers n shit
On May 20 2013 18:25 Ghanburighan wrote: A decent storm that misses most of the mutas. So what makes that storm decent? Nice lightning effects for photography?
A standard storm is amazing, so one that only hits partially is decent by that metric. It is like selling beverages and only having medium, large, very large.
I don't understand roro, his strategy is to dry hero out but he refuses to defend his bases so it won't work unless hero gives away his army for free. this game has been really poorly played by both players. roro has been in the better position for about 10-15 minutes yet keeps losing his bases because he refuses to defend them.
Hero played very badly in that last game. Almost gave away the game. What where the upgrades on Heroe's air units? It seemed like he barely got any upgrades on them.
As someone who just started watching again since just before the big switch happened, the improvement in control is astonishing. The storms, feedback, army control in general is so, so much better.
That was such an entertaining game! So many mind games going on, and HerO almost threw that match with the cocky play at the beginning. I'm so happy he managed to turn it around in the end though because it would be so heartbreaking for him if he lost from being cocky.
These scrappy games are fun because they really show who knows the matchups fully and what units counter eachother.
OMFG Roro would've won that game too if he hadn't thrown away so many units in the big engagement.... Fucking Hero, had me on the edge of my chair for the last 20 minutes. I can't believe it, he has the chance to put away the game for just EGTL's 3rd victory in 10 matches and almost throws it away when he loses focus and starts to BM. Unbelievable.
Casters are so dumb, this match was awesome, and they was the entire time complaining about a carrier, every engagement complaining the game was there because a carrier and mistakes like they're in hurry for lunch.. maybe they forgot they're entertainers, wtf.
On May 20 2013 18:45 InVerno wrote: Casters are so dumb, this match was awesome, and they was the entire time complaining about a carrier, every engagement complaining the game was there because a carrier and mistakes like they're in hurry for lunch.. maybe they forgot they're entertainers, wtf.
"Looks like HerO opened his bottle of champagne too early..."
On May 20 2013 18:45 Evil_Sheep wrote: OMFG Roro would've won that game too if he hadn't thrown away so many units in the big engagement.... Fucking Hero, had me on the edge of my chair for the last 20 minutes. I can't believe it, he has the chance to put away the game for just EGTL's 3rd victory in 10 matches and almost throws it away when he loses focus and starts to BM. Unbelievable.
BM? Where did HerO BM? People really need to stop throwing around words and terms they have no concept of...
On May 20 2013 18:38 Fenrax wrote: worst game of the year
looked cool but just embarrassing play by both
To be fair, both players playing perfectly by the book would never have been this entertaining.
They read what the book says about perfect play, and then did the exact opposite.
More like hero was high on winning and decided to dick around and managed to taunt roro into dicking around as well after he caught up but ended up eventually out-dicking him... around. ...or something. =P
Either way, they went with the flow and it was fun to watch.
On May 20 2013 18:45 InVerno wrote: Casters are so dumb, this match was awesome, and they was the entire time complaining about a carrier, every engagement complaining the game was there because a carrier and mistakes like they're in hurry for lunch.. maybe they forgot they're entertainers, wtf.
"Looks like HerO opened his bottle of champagne too early..."
No bro, they clearly said "Wow this game sucks so much. LOL fucking carriers."
On May 20 2013 18:38 Fenrax wrote: worst game of the year
looked cool but just embarrassing play by both
I always wondered what makes people talk such bulshit. Do you have personal issues? Maybe bottled up rage? Or do you simply hate the players involved? Or maybe you just want some attention... Both players were playing extremely well with great multitasking and micro in addition to spot on decision making (except the carrier obviously).
On May 20 2013 18:45 Evil_Sheep wrote: OMFG Roro would've won that game too if he hadn't thrown away so many units in the big engagement.... Fucking Hero, had me on the edge of my chair for the last 20 minutes. I can't believe it, he has the chance to put away the game for just EGTL's 3rd victory in 10 matches and almost throws it away when he loses focus and starts to BM. Unbelievable.
BM? Where did HerO BM? People really need to stop throwing around words and terms they have no concept of...
So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:45 InVerno wrote: Casters are so dumb, this match was awesome, and they was the entire time complaining about a carrier, every engagement complaining the game was there because a carrier and mistakes like they're in hurry for lunch.. maybe they forgot they're entertainers, wtf.
"Looks like HerO opened his bottle of champagne too early..."
On May 20 2013 18:45 Evil_Sheep wrote: OMFG Roro would've won that game too if he hadn't thrown away so many units in the big engagement.... Fucking Hero, had me on the edge of my chair for the last 20 minutes. I can't believe it, he has the chance to put away the game for just EGTL's 3rd victory in 10 matches and almost throws it away when he loses focus and starts to BM. Unbelievable.
BM? Where did HerO BM? People really need to stop throwing around words and terms they have no concept of...
What was that carrier? Skytoss? Please....
Oh so building a unit is BM now? Good argument, please continue...
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:38 Fenrax wrote: worst game of the year
looked cool but just embarrassing play by both
I always wondered what makes people talk such bulshit. Do you have personal issues? Maybe bottled up rage? Or do you simply hate the players involved? Or maybe you just want some attention... Both players were playing extremely well with great multitasking and micro in addition to spot on decision making (except the carrier obviously).
On May 20 2013 18:45 Evil_Sheep wrote: OMFG Roro would've won that game too if he hadn't thrown away so many units in the big engagement.... Fucking Hero, had me on the edge of my chair for the last 20 minutes. I can't believe it, he has the chance to put away the game for just EGTL's 3rd victory in 10 matches and almost throws it away when he loses focus and starts to BM. Unbelievable.
BM? Where did HerO BM? People really need to stop throwing around words and terms they have no concept of...
What was that carrier? Skytoss? Please....
Oh so building a unit is BM now? Good argument, please continue...
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
more free agent money for EG!
Maybe EG will come to next year's Proleague with a completely new lineup...
On May 20 2013 18:45 Evil_Sheep wrote: OMFG Roro would've won that game too if he hadn't thrown away so many units in the big engagement.... Fucking Hero, had me on the edge of my chair for the last 20 minutes. I can't believe it, he has the chance to put away the game for just EGTL's 3rd victory in 10 matches and almost throws it away when he loses focus and starts to BM. Unbelievable.
BM? Where did HerO BM? People really need to stop throwing around words and terms they have no concept of...
QFT. And all the complaining that goes around in these LR's is so annoying. It seems these people just cannot enjoy themselves..
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
more free agent money for EG!
Maybe EG will come to next year's Proleague with a completely new lineup...
do we actually know that EG (or EG-TL) will do another year of Proleague? To me it looks like they'll be focussing more on WCS instead
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:45 InVerno wrote: Casters are so dumb, this match was awesome, and they was the entire time complaining about a carrier, every engagement complaining the game was there because a carrier and mistakes like they're in hurry for lunch.. maybe they forgot they're entertainers, wtf.
They have probably read to many chats and LR threads and gotten infected.
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:45 Evil_Sheep wrote: OMFG Roro would've won that game too if he hadn't thrown away so many units in the big engagement.... Fucking Hero, had me on the edge of my chair for the last 20 minutes. I can't believe it, he has the chance to put away the game for just EGTL's 3rd victory in 10 matches and almost throws it away when he loses focus and starts to BM. Unbelievable.
BM? Where did HerO BM? People really need to stop throwing around words and terms they have no concept of...
What was that carrier? Skytoss? Please....
Oh so building a unit is BM now? Good argument, please continue...
It is actually, learn your history. Building a bad unit you don't need is a way of telling your opponent to gtfo. Free is famous for bm'ing with scouts.
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:48 Dodgin wrote: So I noticed JYP wasn't at the studio with the rest of the team, might be a sign that he's retired. He didn't qualify for WCS AM Challenger even, so it would make sense.
On May 20 2013 18:45 Evil_Sheep wrote: OMFG Roro would've won that game too if he hadn't thrown away so many units in the big engagement.... Fucking Hero, had me on the edge of my chair for the last 20 minutes. I can't believe it, he has the chance to put away the game for just EGTL's 3rd victory in 10 matches and almost throws it away when he loses focus and starts to BM. Unbelievable.
BM? Where did HerO BM? People really need to stop throwing around words and terms they have no concept of...
What was that carrier? Skytoss? Please....
Oh so building a unit is BM now? Good argument, please continue...
It is actually, learn your history. Building a bad unit you don't need is a way of telling your opponent to gtfo. Free is famous for bm'ing with scouts.
Cool, thanks. I like his nickname. "Canata did not lose a single game in the Survivor tournament, constituting a 17 game win-streak and earning him the nickname "Survivor King"". http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/Canata
On May 20 2013 18:45 Evil_Sheep wrote: OMFG Roro would've won that game too if he hadn't thrown away so many units in the big engagement.... Fucking Hero, had me on the edge of my chair for the last 20 minutes. I can't believe it, he has the chance to put away the game for just EGTL's 3rd victory in 10 matches and almost throws it away when he loses focus and starts to BM. Unbelievable.
BM? Where did HerO BM? People really need to stop throwing around words and terms they have no concept of...
What was that carrier? Skytoss? Please....
Oh so building a unit is BM now? Good argument, please continue...
It is actually, learn your history. Building a bad unit you don't need is a way of telling your opponent to gtfo. Free is famous for bm'ing with scouts.
Sick stats: in his last 10 proleague matches, HerO has defeated Roro, Flash, and Rain, each one the best or one of the best representatives from each race, playing in their best competition. Of course, he also lost to Roro and Rain in those 10, which somewhat takes the shine off things, but still. Hero is looking very impressive. Now all that needs to happen is Coach Park tells him to cut out the shit and go for the throat when he's winning his games
I came in at the 30 minute mark, and I don't know about before, it was one of the most tense and well played game by both sides that I've seen in a PvZ for probably 6 months.
On May 20 2013 19:37 Pandain wrote: I came in at the 30 minute mark, and I don't know about before, it was one of the most tense and well played game by both sides that I've seen in a PvZ for probably 6 months.
The whole game was tense and exciting. Hero forced a really wacky situation at the beginning and everything got really messy afterwards. Both seemed to be playing on the fly throughout the whole game, but displayed great multitasking and micro. It should be mentioned though that Hero made a carrier fairly early, probably thinking that he is much further ahead than he was. Maybe, if he had not built the carrier, things would have went differently.
On May 20 2013 19:37 Pandain wrote: I came in at the 30 minute mark, and I don't know about before, it was one of the most tense and well played game by both sides that I've seen in a PvZ for probably 6 months.
The whole game was tense and exciting. Hero forced a really wacky situation at the beginning and everything got really messy afterwards. Both seemed to be playing on the fly throughout the whole game, but displayed great multitasking and micro. It should be mentioned though that Hero made a carrier fairly early, probably thinking that he is much further ahead than he was. Maybe, if he had not built the carrier, things would have went differently.
just read the interview, he says it was a mistake and that it happens in practice too haha.
On May 20 2013 19:37 Pandain wrote: I came in at the 30 minute mark, and I don't know about before, it was one of the most tense and well played game by both sides that I've seen in a PvZ for probably 6 months.
The whole game was tense and exciting. Hero forced a really wacky situation at the beginning and everything got really messy afterwards. Both seemed to be playing on the fly throughout the whole game, but displayed great multitasking and micro. It should be mentioned though that Hero made a carrier fairly early, probably thinking that he is much further ahead than he was. Maybe, if he had not built the carrier, things would have went differently.
just read the interview, he says it was a mistake and that it happens in practice too haha.
On May 20 2013 19:37 Pandain wrote: I came in at the 30 minute mark, and I don't know about before, it was one of the most tense and well played game by both sides that I've seen in a PvZ for probably 6 months.
The whole game was tense and exciting. Hero forced a really wacky situation at the beginning and everything got really messy afterwards. Both seemed to be playing on the fly throughout the whole game, but displayed great multitasking and micro. It should be mentioned though that Hero made a carrier fairly early, probably thinking that he is much further ahead than he was. Maybe, if he had not built the carrier, things would have went differently.
just read the interview, he says it was a mistake and that it happens in practice too haha.
On May 20 2013 19:30 Evil_Sheep wrote: Sick stats: in his last 10 proleague matches, HerO has defeated Roro, Flash, and Rain, each one the best or one of the best representatives from each race, playing in their best competition. Of course, he also lost to Roro and Rain in those 10, which somewhat takes the shine off things, but still. Hero is looking very impressive. Now all that needs to happen is Coach Park tells him to cut out the shit and go for the throat when he's winning his games
I don't know, he's such a streaky player that it might help if he's going out to have fun every time. On the other hand, when he's at his best, he is usually very intense, so maybe going for a "have fun" attitude would be entirely wrong. But you can't keep up the "intense" attitude all the time, unless you are Jaedong or Flash.
On May 20 2013 20:39 4tre55 wrote: Hero sooooo good in Teamleagues right now.
He got a win over Flash against KT and now he put 3 wins together in one sitting and got a AK in Acer (I don't put much weight into Acer's little tournament sorry). I'd say this is meeting expectations. I wouldn't say he's soooo good in Team Leagues right now, but this is more along the lines of what we were hoping to see from him in the stretch.
On May 20 2013 20:31 Highways wrote: Zerg's getting raped hard in ZvP.
40% win rate in proleague 30% win rate in GSTL
back to the start of sc2
Their winrate is higher then the likelihood of actually seeing a zerg get played in PL.
I wonder if it is the maps, imbalance or Kespa Zergs being bad. Maybe a combination?
IDK, but Roro is suddenly garbage and JD is like the only zerg getting wins. Even Soulkey losing games. PL coaches have it in their head protoss is the #1 option. And then there are two teams with an ace Terran so they don't need anything else.
It might just be that WoL made zergs seem way better than they actually were. And I think the really good ones are shining now, for example Soulkey and Life who are still bossing it up.
On May 21 2013 01:14 DarkLordOlli wrote: It might just be that WoL made zergs seem way better than they actually were. And I think the really good ones are shining now, for example Soulkey and Life who are still bossing it up.
Regardless of perception of skill the Zergs are struggling right now. I guess your theory is that they are just worse?
Well I think that most zergs were getting better results in WoL than they should have. I also think that zerg still needs to figure out its place in the HotS metagame whereas terran and protoss seem to have found theirs a little faster. Which isn't surprising, it was the same in WoL.
Well for example zergs have actually figured out how to beat the protoss deathball to a point where a lot of zergs and protosses actually say that ZvP lategame is zerg favored again. I think there's tons of potential in zerg but sometimes a race needs someone like Stephano in WoL who really showed new effective ways to play the game.
On May 21 2013 02:18 DarkLordOlli wrote: Well for example zergs have actually figured out how to beat the protoss deathball to a point where a lot of zergs and protosses actually say that ZvP lategame is zerg favored again. I think there's tons of potential in zerg but sometimes a race needs someone like Stephano in WoL who really showed new effective ways to play the game.
"Figuring out how to beat the protoss deathball" is only relevant when Protoss only sit back and make a deathball. The game is largely about taking advantages and capitalizing on them, and the Mothership Core now allows for very early greed as well as harassment without fear of an all-in counter, meaning ZvP is a lot less about end-game deathballs and a lot more about constant harassment/aggression and constant defence through all phases of the game.
On May 21 2013 02:18 DarkLordOlli wrote: Well for example zergs have actually figured out how to beat the protoss deathball to a point where a lot of zergs and protosses actually say that ZvP lategame is zerg favored again. I think there's tons of potential in zerg but sometimes a race needs someone like Stephano in WoL who really showed new effective ways to play the game.
"Figuring out how to beat the protoss deathball" is only relevant when Protoss only sit back and make a deathball. The game is largely about taking advantages and capitalizing on them, and the Mothership Core now allows for very early greed as well as harassment without fear of an all-in counter, meaning ZvP is a lot less about end-game deathballs and a lot more about constant harassment/aggression and constant defence through all phases of the game.
I don't see how this is relevant but umm... yeah, I know. What I meant was that zergs at the beginning of HotS were complaining that the ultimate protoss army can't be beaten. A few weeks later it's actually the other way around.
I still don't get why jaedong is so bad at zvp. I mean in theory he should be capable of everything life does with his bw skills. Yet it's just sad to see his zvp still sucks and he's losing to foreigners left and right in WCS.
On May 21 2013 03:30 Canucklehead wrote: I still don't get why jaedong is so bad at zvp. I mean in theory he should be capable of everything life does with his bw skills. Yet it's just sad to see his zvp still sucks and he's losing to foreigners left and right in WCS.
His mechanics seem to be excellent but his decision making is honestly not even GM level. This isn't an exaggeration or a joke. Some of the moves he makes make me cringe. He is waaaay to aggressive vs Terran/Toss resulting in huge throws and terrible cost inefficiency.
I think that is why he is good at ZvZ. You can be as aggressive as you want and mechanics are more important than strategy.
haven't watched much SC2 lately so I don't know how true your statement is now
but Jaedong was always quite aggressive in BW. Sometimes it would bite him in the ass and cost him games, but at least in BW, his micro (fuckin JD and his 2-hatch muta) and sense of when/where to attack was so good that being aggressive would often turn a losing situation into a win. So him staying aggressive in SC2 doesn't really surprise me.
Doesn't seem to be working out here in SC2 though based on your comments and his winrate.
It's not like JD's BW decisionmaking was bad (quite the opposite really; he was a great adaptive player with "lose first, win later" Bo5 performances). A shame if that's the case in SC2
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