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United States18840 Posts
On April 22 2013 04:22 Sissors wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:18 farvacola wrote:On April 22 2013 04:15 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:10 Zarahtra wrote:On April 22 2013 04:07 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:06 Zarahtra wrote:On April 22 2013 04:04 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:03 Sissors wrote:
If drunkenboy would have bothered to wall his third he would have had so much more resources.
@Bronze, quite frankly hellbat drops would have been a waste of resources, too many stalkers placed to intercept drops. You're probably right, but you have to play the strategies that got you there. You don't try and reinvent yourself. Well I mean this is the problem with being one-dimensional player. Incontrol seemed to be just hard countering Drunken's playstyle and banking on better lategame. Yep. It is also the problem with a cheesy playstyle. Your opponent can do one or two little things and suddenly you're forced to play standard and that is where you get exposed. Still, it is really fun to watch and it is interesting because it isn't the same old macro game every time. Yup, while I'm a pretty passive player and hate all these oracle rushes, reaper allins, roach rushes etc etc, they make the game so much better than the crap state of NR15 by end of WoL. Well, I play the opposite way that you play, but WOL ended up stale because Blizzard and map makers went to far in hurting all-ins and refused to accept that it should require skill to hold all-ins. HOTS will end up in an even worse state with things like Photon Overcharge and Widow Mines unforunately. This makes no sense to me....making all-ins easier to deal with prolongs games, expands windows for displays of non-game-ending skill, and removes a lot of opportunities for lesser skilled players to knock out better players with dice rolls. Then just start with 3 saturated bases and +2/+2 finished. Because that is effectively what the NR15 style is. That might be longer games, but there isn't more to do that in an average all-in way too often: one fight which decides all, only we just had to be bored for 15 minutes first. And tbh a vast majority of 'lesser skilled players' who beat better players is because the 'better players' just played way too greedy.
Making all-ins more difficult to pull off and making them impossible are not the same thing.
And Bronzeknee, you can say that photon overcharge takes no skill, but that is simply untrue. Making sure your core is ready and full of energy, targeting down medivacs with the overcharge, and scouting the attack all need to be done. That OP photon overcharge isn't so useful when your core is in your main while your front door expansion is getting dropped.
If you are really defending Terran 1 base all ins, you are crying to the wrong Zerg.
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On April 22 2013 04:26 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:22 Sissors wrote:On April 22 2013 04:18 farvacola wrote:On April 22 2013 04:15 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:10 Zarahtra wrote:On April 22 2013 04:07 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:06 Zarahtra wrote:On April 22 2013 04:04 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:03 Sissors wrote:
If drunkenboy would have bothered to wall his third he would have had so much more resources.
@Bronze, quite frankly hellbat drops would have been a waste of resources, too many stalkers placed to intercept drops. You're probably right, but you have to play the strategies that got you there. You don't try and reinvent yourself. Well I mean this is the problem with being one-dimensional player. Incontrol seemed to be just hard countering Drunken's playstyle and banking on better lategame. Yep. It is also the problem with a cheesy playstyle. Your opponent can do one or two little things and suddenly you're forced to play standard and that is where you get exposed. Still, it is really fun to watch and it is interesting because it isn't the same old macro game every time. Yup, while I'm a pretty passive player and hate all these oracle rushes, reaper allins, roach rushes etc etc, they make the game so much better than the crap state of NR15 by end of WoL. Well, I play the opposite way that you play, but WOL ended up stale because Blizzard and map makers went to far in hurting all-ins and refused to accept that it should require skill to hold all-ins. HOTS will end up in an even worse state with things like Photon Overcharge and Widow Mines unforunately. This makes no sense to me....making all-ins easier to deal with prolongs games, expands windows for displays of non-game-ending skill, and removes a lot of opportunities for lesser skilled players to knock out better players with dice rolls. Then just start with 3 saturated bases and +2/+2 finished. Because that is effectively what the NR15 style is. That might be longer games, but there isn't more to do that in an average all-in way too often: one fight which decides all, only we just had to be bored for 15 minutes first. And tbh a vast majority of 'lesser skilled players' who beat better players is because the 'better players' just played way too greedy. Making all-ins more difficult to pull off and making them impossible are not the same thing. And Bronzeknee, you can say that photon overcharge takes no skill, but that is simply untrue. Making sure your core is ready and full of energy, targeting down medivacs with the overcharge, and scouting the attack all need to be done. That OP photon overcharge isn't so useful when your core is in your main while your front door expansion is getting dropped.
duh... no haste.. so no micro.. that cannon takes ages to fall apart...
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Am I the only one wondering if Jaedong ended his 2-0 in Loser's Round 7 by typing into chat, "You know nothing Jon Snow." ?
Also, I miss TB. But I guess he has other obligations.
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On April 22 2013 04:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:23 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:18 farvacola wrote:On April 22 2013 04:15 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:10 Zarahtra wrote:On April 22 2013 04:07 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:06 Zarahtra wrote:On April 22 2013 04:04 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:03 Sissors wrote:
If drunkenboy would have bothered to wall his third he would have had so much more resources.
@Bronze, quite frankly hellbat drops would have been a waste of resources, too many stalkers placed to intercept drops. You're probably right, but you have to play the strategies that got you there. You don't try and reinvent yourself. Well I mean this is the problem with being one-dimensional player. Incontrol seemed to be just hard countering Drunken's playstyle and banking on better lategame. Yep. It is also the problem with a cheesy playstyle. Your opponent can do one or two little things and suddenly you're forced to play standard and that is where you get exposed. Still, it is really fun to watch and it is interesting because it isn't the same old macro game every time. Yup, while I'm a pretty passive player and hate all these oracle rushes, reaper allins, roach rushes etc etc, they make the game so much better than the crap state of NR15 by end of WoL. Well, I play the opposite way that you play, but WOL ended up stale because Blizzard and map makers went to far in hurting all-ins and refused to accept that it should require skill to hold all-ins. HOTS will end up in an even worse state with things like Photon Overcharge and Widow Mines unforunately. This makes no sense to me....making all-ins easier to deal with prolongs games, expands windows for displays of non-game-ending skill, and removes a lot of opportunities for lesser skilled players to knock out better players with dice rolls. Photon Overcharge doesn't take any skill, which is why it is bad. And it goes too far, denying almost all Terran 1 base all-ins. You mean all those amazing builds that involve building a ton of marines and some other crap and charging cross map? I think we are better off without those, personally. Also, build bunker and slap units into bunker is not the paragon of skill either.
Are you talking about spam marine builds which are to train macro ?
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Honestly Photon overcharge is a very interesting ability, and one which Protoss did need to defend the new dropships early game.
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On April 22 2013 04:24 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:23 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:18 farvacola wrote:On April 22 2013 04:15 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:10 Zarahtra wrote:On April 22 2013 04:07 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:06 Zarahtra wrote:On April 22 2013 04:04 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:03 Sissors wrote:
If drunkenboy would have bothered to wall his third he would have had so much more resources.
@Bronze, quite frankly hellbat drops would have been a waste of resources, too many stalkers placed to intercept drops. You're probably right, but you have to play the strategies that got you there. You don't try and reinvent yourself. Well I mean this is the problem with being one-dimensional player. Incontrol seemed to be just hard countering Drunken's playstyle and banking on better lategame. Yep. It is also the problem with a cheesy playstyle. Your opponent can do one or two little things and suddenly you're forced to play standard and that is where you get exposed. Still, it is really fun to watch and it is interesting because it isn't the same old macro game every time. Yup, while I'm a pretty passive player and hate all these oracle rushes, reaper allins, roach rushes etc etc, they make the game so much better than the crap state of NR15 by end of WoL. Well, I play the opposite way that you play, but WOL ended up stale because Blizzard and map makers went to far in hurting all-ins and refused to accept that it should require skill to hold all-ins. HOTS will end up in an even worse state with things like Photon Overcharge and Widow Mines unforunately. This makes no sense to me....making all-ins easier to deal with prolongs games, expands windows for displays of non-game-ending skill, and removes a lot of opportunities for lesser skilled players to knock out better players with dice rolls. Photon Overcharge doesn't take any skill, which is why it is bad. And it goes too far, denying almost all Terran 1 base all-ins. You mean all those amazing builds that involve building a ton of marines and some other crap and charging cross map? I think we are better off without those, personally. Also, build bunker and slap units into bunker is not the paragon of skill either.
Those strats made sure even when they weren't used that the other player couldn't just freely macro without having to worry about anything, because he has planetary nexus anyway.
Regarding bunkers, just putting bunkers up really isn't enough against any serious attack. You need to repair them with SCVs. And don't say that isn't skill, because while the basic is simple, it definately requires skill to do it good. Multi-tasking to pull them in time when you see the enemy and also got other stuff to do, but also decission making, do you place them in front of the bunker or not? When do you send them back?
That OP photon overcharge isn't so useful when your core is in your main while your front door expansion is getting dropped
The photon overcharge cast range is so large you can pretty much do both at the same time.
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On April 22 2013 04:28 felisconcolori wrote:
Am I the only one wondering if Jaedong ended his 2-0 in Loser's Round 7 by typing into chat, "You know nothing Jon Snow." ?
Also, I miss TB. But I guess he has other obligations.
He is casting ATC.
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Is it just me or is there no sound?
edit: refreshed and sound is back
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WTF":
PhysicsLee DQ
HwangSinW 2
DQ for what?
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On April 22 2013 04:28 felisconcolori wrote:
Am I the only one wondering if Jaedong ended his 2-0 in Loser's Round 7 by typing into chat, "You know nothing Jon Snow." ?
Also, I miss TB. But I guess he has other obligations.
Casting Karont3 vs Mouz. It's been pretty sick.
+ Show Spoiler +Great performance by hOpe, but LucifroN bringing it back
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On April 22 2013 04:29 govie wrote:
WTF":
PhysicsLee DQ
HwangSinW 2
DQ for what?
Being a hacker?
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United States18840 Posts
On April 22 2013 04:29 govie wrote:
WTF":
PhysicsLee DQ
HwangSinW 2
DQ for what?
Maybe hacking? 
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On April 22 2013 04:29 govie wrote:
WTF":
PhysicsLee DQ
HwangSinW 2
DQ for what?
For being a cheater?
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On April 22 2013 04:28 felisconcolori wrote:
Am I the only one wondering if Jaedong ended his 2-0 in Loser's Round 7 by typing into chat, "You know nothing Jon Snow." ?
Also, I miss TB. But I guess he has other obligations.
He's casting [ATC] K3 vs. mouz right now. Pretty good stuff going on there.
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On April 22 2013 04:29 govie wrote:
WTF":
PhysicsLee DQ
HwangSinW 2
DQ for what?
For being a cheater. Well that would be my first thought on it but could be anything.
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On April 22 2013 04:26 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:24 Plansix wrote:On April 22 2013 04:23 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:18 farvacola wrote:On April 22 2013 04:15 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:10 Zarahtra wrote:On April 22 2013 04:07 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:06 Zarahtra wrote:On April 22 2013 04:04 BronzeKnee wrote:On April 22 2013 04:03 Sissors wrote:
If drunkenboy would have bothered to wall his third he would have had so much more resources.
@Bronze, quite frankly hellbat drops would have been a waste of resources, too many stalkers placed to intercept drops. You're probably right, but you have to play the strategies that got you there. You don't try and reinvent yourself. Well I mean this is the problem with being one-dimensional player. Incontrol seemed to be just hard countering Drunken's playstyle and banking on better lategame. Yep. It is also the problem with a cheesy playstyle. Your opponent can do one or two little things and suddenly you're forced to play standard and that is where you get exposed. Still, it is really fun to watch and it is interesting because it isn't the same old macro game every time. Yup, while I'm a pretty passive player and hate all these oracle rushes, reaper allins, roach rushes etc etc, they make the game so much better than the crap state of NR15 by end of WoL. Well, I play the opposite way that you play, but WOL ended up stale because Blizzard and map makers went to far in hurting all-ins and refused to accept that it should require skill to hold all-ins. HOTS will end up in an even worse state with things like Photon Overcharge and Widow Mines unforunately. This makes no sense to me....making all-ins easier to deal with prolongs games, expands windows for displays of non-game-ending skill, and removes a lot of opportunities for lesser skilled players to knock out better players with dice rolls. Photon Overcharge doesn't take any skill, which is why it is bad. And it goes too far, denying almost all Terran 1 base all-ins. You mean all those amazing builds that involve building a ton of marines and some other crap and charging cross map? I think we are better off without those, personally. Also, build bunker and slap units into bunker is not the paragon of skill either. Well, I got to Masters in WOL being able to hold all types of Terran all-ins. It is difficult and it takes skill. And it is enjoyable to hold a Terran all-in as Protoss. Photon Overcharge makes the game boring for me. I hated WOL PvT, 15 minutes of build up for 30 seconds of action decided by HT and Ghost micro. The guy above is right, if you don't want viable 1 base plays, then just start the game with everyone on two bases and a basic infrastructure.
There are still one base timings that are out there and I am sure people will find them. Like everything else, it will take time. The overcharge means that people can't just walk across the map with a mob of marines and hope that the protoss doesn't have enough to hold them off, which I am ok with.
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On April 22 2013 04:29 govie wrote:
WTF":
PhysicsLee DQ
HwangSinW 2
DQ for what?
Haha, look to the left, in the "SC2 General" section.
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On April 22 2013 04:30 Godwrath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 04:29 govie wrote:
WTF":
PhysicsLee DQ
HwangSinW 2
DQ for what? For being a cheater. Well that would be my first thought on it but could be anything.
Took m 2 days to find that out?
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EPT
