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[MLG] Day 3 Winter Championship - Page 557

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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The usual: Don't flame casters or players. Don't discuss balance in this or any LR thread. Don't call your fellow posters idiots. Be excited, happy and entertained.
DavoS
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States4605 Posts
March 18 2013 01:40 GMT
#11121
So all I have to do to beat Terran is have godlike ling micro. Sounds good.
Gj Life, you are the true God of Starcraft 2
"KDA is actually the most useless stat in the game" Aui_2000
TheSir
Profile Joined February 2012
1830 Posts
March 18 2013 01:40 GMT
#11122
So to sum this weekend up:

- game seems pretty balanced, no major complains here but need to see more and time will tell.
- some very interesting and entertaining games.
- production wasn't the best i've seen, the switching shots between the game and players were driving me insane.
- venue looked pretty good, much better with those moving lights etc.
- award ceremony still sucks.
- good free 720p stream! shame of the lag but twitch is lagging for months.
- TB and Incontrol (needs a better shirt next time tho) are a great casting duo and the only duo i liked this weekend.
- no analyses of the games on the first days, wtf is up with that?
- the format sucks with a silly 3/4e place match
- bring clutch back!
- congrats with the stream numbers

Overall a pretty good tournament but imo there's still a lot to improve.
Savant.GL
Profile Joined July 2012
Germany502 Posts
March 18 2013 01:40 GMT
#11123
Anna and Geoff, you can take over the world of SC2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Savant
GolemMadness
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Canada11044 Posts
March 18 2013 01:41 GMT
#11124
On March 18 2013 10:38 Zelniq wrote:
try and remember that the players had hardly any time to prepare for this tournament. game comes out, they play it for like 2 days maybe and have to travel..and beta had been down for 12 days before that. Flash wasn't practicing much hots beta and he admitted he hadn't been able to prepare much for the tournament..and that showed somewhat in his games..he's not totally used to everything yet. wait for more tournaments really


Yeah, all of this complaining is so ridiculous. At least wait for a GSL/Proleague round to finish.
http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=FLABREZU
fluidin
Profile Joined November 2011
Singapore1084 Posts
March 18 2013 01:41 GMT
#11125
if nothing else, it's scary how consistently flash is improving in sc2. he wasn't prepared for his series against life. we will see again when he is.
Vanadiel
Profile Joined April 2012
France961 Posts
March 18 2013 01:41 GMT
#11126
On March 18 2013 10:28 Killcani wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 10:26 Vanadiel wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:16 ShivaN wrote:
wow he calls zerg weak, after just winning the 1st major Hots tournament? Are you fucking kidding me? lol


Well if you don't count Life game, zerg are 3-21 in ZvT in this tournament. And Life barely win against Polt and Last, even if both are really good player, Life has been since the last 6 month of MLG hand down the best player in the world and I think it's fair to say he is a way better player. Furthermore, yes he did win at the end, but a lot of his win was due to the fact that he cleverly exploited the HoTS metagames with his baneling bust timing, it's not going to work as much now it has been shown. It's not lying to say that zerg is a little bit underpowered against terran, I'm not sure if there is real problems in the PvZ match up to be honest, but there is style a lot of room to improve bio mine in terms of timing and the micro/positionning of the widow mine but I really don't see how you can play better that Life did.

Foreigners vs Koreans stats are invalid becuase of huge skill gap.


I hate this idea of saying that a guy is obviously better because he is Korean, there is absolutely no logic behind it. Stephano has been considered (by Korean too) as one of the top Zerg in the world, he's not the best obviously but he is really good and has won a lot even at a time where Zerg were weaker, i don't know how you would not count that. He has been demolished 3-0. Leenock as well, does that not count to you? The fact that DRG, Soulkey, Curious have also been eliminated by terran does not count? A lot pros agrees on this, even terran Zerg is indeed a little bit weaker right now, even though Life has won the tournament. Fruitdealer also won first GSL, it doesn't mean terran wasn't the stronger race at the time.
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
March 18 2013 01:41 GMT
#11127
Yeah I agree, the tanks would really help against those precise bane bust styles. I think people will need to learn to more diligently scout and make choices depending on what they see, a scan in the main of Life at some points would have probably tipped off Flash, as well as better helion movements on the map to spot the location of the lings.

And while bio-mine is really mobile and potent, it doesn't quite have the staying power that tanks do, and while a big mine blast can kill many lings, well positioned tanks can do far, far more sustained damage overall, it does hurt harder when you lose them though.

Overall Life was just the better player though, adapting to each opponent and using styles designed to exploit weaknesses in each opponent's style. Life is probably the most complete zerg to study right now, as his builds are probably good against almost anything anyone can trow at you.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
xN.07)MaK
Profile Joined January 2006
Spain1159 Posts
March 18 2013 01:42 GMT
#11128
Splash is fine: it targets the first ling, and kills it and those sorrounding him. It doesn't look for the center ling or has a huge radio. Maybe people want something different, like the mine in bw. But remember that those were 1 use only.
El micro es el último recurso que les queda a los que no producen lo suficiente
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
March 18 2013 01:42 GMT
#11129
On March 18 2013 10:40 Wildmoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 10:38 Wombat_NI wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:37 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:35 Wombat_NI wrote:
So basically people think it's a GOOD thing that widowmines can hit a huge clump of stuff and pretty much do nothing?

Widowmines should be potent, but counterable by baiting them with lings. That's 100% really cool I loved Life's continual use of that kind of micro trick. Widowmines randomly wiping out whole armies, or doing nothing is terrible and gimmicky, an artificial way to create 'tension'


It hit huge clump last game? I didn't see it..

I'm saying this distinct from those games. People have been claiming some sort of 'randomness' with mines would improve the game by adding volatility.


but it really forces zerg to use their zergling micro heavily. We all have seen Life's ridiculuos mine baiting micro.

Yeah but, that's zergling baiting, which is fine and I said that was cool. People were mentioning mines should be more like Reaver scarabs from BW which would sometimes fizzle out and do nothing at seemingly random intervals.

In essence.
1. Mitigating the splash with baiting and micro = awesome
2. Randomness = bad.

I was wondering if there would be some way to hold mines fire via some APM intensive thing, as a Terran counter to Zergs baiting tactics that could come in. Might be ridiculous though, but I'd rather see those kind of solutions pursued than straight tweaks to damage and whatnot
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
iky43210
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States2099 Posts
March 18 2013 01:42 GMT
#11130
On March 18 2013 10:40 DavoS wrote:
So all I have to do to beat Terran is have godlike ling micro. Sounds good.
Gj Life, you are the true God of Starcraft 2

trust me, at whatever paper league you're in zerg is still plenty of good.
M.R. McThundercrotch
Profile Joined June 2012
United States265 Posts
March 18 2013 01:43 GMT
#11131
Between Abduct and Blinding Cloud, well controlled vipers pretty much negate tanks entirely and you can bet Life would control his vipers well.
On June 30 2012 01:42 iNcontroL wrote: Fuck a lot of you. Fuck you forever.
Snusmumriken
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden1717 Posts
March 18 2013 01:44 GMT
#11132
On March 18 2013 10:42 iky43210 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 10:40 DavoS wrote:
So all I have to do to beat Terran is have godlike ling micro. Sounds good.
Gj Life, you are the true God of Starcraft 2

trust me, at whatever paper league you're in zerg is still plenty of good.


haha so true. I honestly cant believe after 12 months of lings of liberty we see zergs already complaining all over the place when a fucking zerg just won the first major tournament.
Amove for Aiur
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
March 18 2013 01:44 GMT
#11133
On March 18 2013 10:39 Godwrath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 10:35 chatuka wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:31 Levistus wrote:
Would building tanks really help flash in that series? I think that's the only series recently that I remember where Terran didn't build tanks against Z.

what was FLash afraid of building tanks for? Life zergling numbers are insane so tanks are probably not a great answer.

the series was about Flash not being ready for Life all or nothing approach. And then some, Flash even got somewhat intimidated by the fact Life was just not afraid to lose to a Bonjwa a rushmore figure in e-sports.

Game 3. Life goes baneling bust, FLash not prepared or ready to see a ballsy move like that.
game 4 FLash cheeses Life, but life is still not intimidated by Flash, will continue to economically cheese flash.
game 5. Life not only out expands FLash early, he kills an SCV and does that same baneling bust that decimated FLash's workers
Game 6: Life early expands again and FLash should have stopped this kid by cheesing this kid or punishing Life for continually double expanding so early. FLash would punish JD for doing so, with Life no so much


Bling busts on fast 3 bases are not exactly all or nothing...


Yeah, Life didn't make one all-in that series, so I don't know what people are talking about and to the other guy. Flash might be considered God in BW, but good thing this is a different game. He's on a clean slate. I'm sure he'll improve in time.
Jaegeru
Profile Joined February 2012
United Kingdom676 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-18 01:46:47
March 18 2013 01:44 GMT
#11134
On March 18 2013 10:40 DavoS wrote:
So all I have to do to beat Terran is have godlike ling micro. Sounds good.
Gj Life, you are the true God of Starcraft 2


Micro should always be encouraged, it only ever benefits the game - baiting out mines with zerglings seems like a neat little mechanic for the matchup. Zergs not being able to rely on boring BL / Infestor compositions all the time now make the game so much better to watch.
MVP on winning his Fourth GSL - "Yeah I know the routine, take the flowers and cheque, I will kiss the trophy for the photo"
Destructicon
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
4713 Posts
March 18 2013 01:45 GMT
#11135
Vipers with abduct also stop Medivacs, static defenses can slow down the drops enough for the zerg to react and call back either lings to clean up or vipers to help with killing of the actual medivacs.
WriterNever give up, never surrender! https://www.youtube.com/user/DestructiconSC
Killcani
Profile Joined October 2010
Sweden448 Posts
March 18 2013 01:45 GMT
#11136
On March 18 2013 10:42 iky43210 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 10:40 DavoS wrote:
So all I have to do to beat Terran is have godlike ling micro. Sounds good.
Gj Life, you are the true God of Starcraft 2

trust me, at whatever paper league you're in zerg is still plenty of good.

Do you need to have good micro to beat Flash? Well yes you kinda do have to . If your thinking about bronze league not so much...
Wildmoon
Profile Joined December 2011
Thailand4189 Posts
March 18 2013 01:45 GMT
#11137
On March 18 2013 10:42 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 10:40 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:38 Wombat_NI wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:37 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:35 Wombat_NI wrote:
So basically people think it's a GOOD thing that widowmines can hit a huge clump of stuff and pretty much do nothing?

Widowmines should be potent, but counterable by baiting them with lings. That's 100% really cool I loved Life's continual use of that kind of micro trick. Widowmines randomly wiping out whole armies, or doing nothing is terrible and gimmicky, an artificial way to create 'tension'


It hit huge clump last game? I didn't see it..

I'm saying this distinct from those games. People have been claiming some sort of 'randomness' with mines would improve the game by adding volatility.


but it really forces zerg to use their zergling micro heavily. We all have seen Life's ridiculuos mine baiting micro.

Yeah but, that's zergling baiting, which is fine and I said that was cool. People were mentioning mines should be more like Reaver scarabs from BW which would sometimes fizzle out and do nothing at seemingly random intervals.

In essence.
1. Mitigating the splash with baiting and micro = awesome
2. Randomness = bad.

I was wondering if there would be some way to hold mines fire via some APM intensive thing, as a Terran counter to Zergs baiting tactics that could come in. Might be ridiculous though, but I'd rather see those kind of solutions pursued than straight tweaks to damage and whatnot


No matter what people were mentioning but in the last game it's not that mines did nothing. It activated but it hit last pack of zergling. That's what I saw. I could be wrong though.
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
March 18 2013 01:46 GMT
#11138
On March 18 2013 10:44 Snusmumriken wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 10:42 iky43210 wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:40 DavoS wrote:
So all I have to do to beat Terran is have godlike ling micro. Sounds good.
Gj Life, you are the true God of Starcraft 2

trust me, at whatever paper league you're in zerg is still plenty of good.


haha so true. I honestly cant believe after 12 months of lings of liberty we see zergs already complaining all over the place when a fucking zerg just won the first major tournament.

A subsection of Zerg players are a complete joke though and should be ignored as a general rule.

Anyway, enough sniping, really enjoyed the tournament. Wanted more high-level PvZ to see how it functioned, but overall good stuff.

We still don't really know how much the players involved have been grinding HoTS either, so that's a bit of an area of mystery. Will have a better idea of where players are at in the next month or so I'd imagine.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
Bam Lee
Profile Joined June 2012
2336 Posts
March 18 2013 01:46 GMT
#11139
Was an awesome event. Killed my weekend, but was really worth it. Quite a few series have just been phenomenal(My favorite probably being innovation vs flash, though i still have to watch last vs life)
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27477 Posts
March 18 2013 01:47 GMT
#11140
On March 18 2013 10:45 Wildmoon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 18 2013 10:42 Wombat_NI wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:40 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:38 Wombat_NI wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:37 Wildmoon wrote:
On March 18 2013 10:35 Wombat_NI wrote:
So basically people think it's a GOOD thing that widowmines can hit a huge clump of stuff and pretty much do nothing?

Widowmines should be potent, but counterable by baiting them with lings. That's 100% really cool I loved Life's continual use of that kind of micro trick. Widowmines randomly wiping out whole armies, or doing nothing is terrible and gimmicky, an artificial way to create 'tension'


It hit huge clump last game? I didn't see it..

I'm saying this distinct from those games. People have been claiming some sort of 'randomness' with mines would improve the game by adding volatility.


but it really forces zerg to use their zergling micro heavily. We all have seen Life's ridiculuos mine baiting micro.

Yeah but, that's zergling baiting, which is fine and I said that was cool. People were mentioning mines should be more like Reaver scarabs from BW which would sometimes fizzle out and do nothing at seemingly random intervals.

In essence.
1. Mitigating the splash with baiting and micro = awesome
2. Randomness = bad.

I was wondering if there would be some way to hold mines fire via some APM intensive thing, as a Terran counter to Zergs baiting tactics that could come in. Might be ridiculous though, but I'd rather see those kind of solutions pursued than straight tweaks to damage and whatnot


No matter what people were mentioning but in the last game it's not that mines did nothing. It activated but it hit last pack of zergling. That's what I saw. I could be wrong though.

I'm not sure either, and would have to watch the VoDs over again to really have an opinion on that specific incident. I'm not really sure why it would have hit the last lings (if that were the case) rather than the forward ones that had triggered it.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
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