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Musicus
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany23580 Posts
March 07 2013 16:20 GMT
#2801
EGStephano ‏@EGStephanoRC

I've thrown away that game. Shouldn't have taken the fight on the highground without my vipers.
Maru and Serral are probably top 5.
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
March 07 2013 16:20 GMT
#2802
On March 08 2013 01:19 vojnik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 01:18 Insoleet wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:17 vojnik wrote:
i feel that widow mines really shut down variety for zerg, at least attack vs air should be removed so that terran can not safely go 3 CC with minimal defenses


I agree

Reapers, hellions, mines harass would be strong, but no anti air. So, zerg could answer by going mutalisks and harass the hell out of the greedy terran.


Roaches should be one of the options not the only one i feel


Well you can probably go 8 queens too. With transfuse you can probably deal with mines/reapers/hellions.
Insoleet
Profile Joined May 2012
France1806 Posts
March 07 2013 16:20 GMT
#2803
On March 08 2013 01:20 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
EGStephano ‏@EGStephanoRC

I've thrown away that game. Shouldn't have taken the fight on the highground without my vipers.


Very cool from steph to share his thought during the games, so that we discover HOTS at the same time as him :D
Olli
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Austria24422 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-07 16:23:07
March 07 2013 16:21 GMT
#2804
On March 08 2013 01:19 Bagi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 01:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:14 Bagi wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:09 Bagi wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:05 Fragile51 wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:02 Bagi wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:01 DarkLordOlli wrote:
As protoss I gotta say I could probably win TvZ handily with 2 reaper opening and then pressure third with widow mines vs current standard zerg.

As terran I gotta say I could probably win PvZ handily by turtling into VR/colossi on 3 base.

Your point?


You could maybe. Not saying that skytoss is balanced. What's your point?


His point is that you shouldn't make claims without evidence that contribute literally nothing to anything aside from pissing people off.


Take Yoda's opening vs Ret as evidence. Maybe stop arguing with me just because you feel like it.

As evidence of what? That certain strategies can win games?

Once again, thanks for that nugget of wisdom. Terran has ways to beat zerg. Amazing.


As evidence that some openings and overall playstyles are extremely strong vs current standard zerg? Which was my point in the first place. It will win in the hands of good players. Whether or not that's a balance issue or zerg just has to play differently remains to be explored.

You're really not reading this too well.

If you wanna call it overpowered, just say its overpowered. No need for this circling around the issue, "oh I could beat zerg by doing this and that with terran".

I'm reading it all too well, Its just that thinly veiled balance whining annoys me.


Lol. I'm protoss, I don't really care about TvZ balance. It's too strong vs current standard zerg. That's what I'm saying. That and nothing else. You're a terrible reader.

If you don't care about the balance, why are you here commenting? You're saying its too strong, you're saying its overpowered, you are balance whining. Stop with this bullshit about "terrible readers", there is nothing subtle about your posts.


Rofl. Go back and read what I said. It's too strong vs current standard zerg for that current standard to be viable. There might be other standard-capable openings for zerg.

Putting it into the most simple words for you so you don't have to think:
Current terran openings > current standard zerg opening.
Current zerg opening might have to be changed by zerg.

How the flying f- is that balance whine.

Also, I don't have to deeply care about balance in a matchup to realize when something beats something.
Administrator"Declaring anything a disaster because aLive popped up out of nowhere is just downright silly."
Mambo
Profile Joined February 2012
Denmark1338 Posts
March 07 2013 16:21 GMT
#2805
MVP like a baws. Hope he takes the entire thing.
Boxer | MVP | Taeja | TLO | Grubby | Bunny (danish)
vojnik
Profile Joined October 2010
Macedonia923 Posts
March 07 2013 16:21 GMT
#2806
On March 08 2013 01:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 01:17 vojnik wrote:
i feel that widow mines5 range Queens really shut down variety for zerg Terrans, at least attack vs air should be removed so that terran can not safely go 3 CC with minimal defenses 3 hatch off no units

I hope this trend towards passive macro is gone, hopefully for good. Aggressive openers should be a risk vs safe openers, greedy openers should be exploitable


i dont want passive macro, i like the new terran aggression, zerg air doesn't come till Lair...
For the swarm!
Crownlol
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States3726 Posts
March 07 2013 16:21 GMT
#2807
On March 08 2013 01:17 vojnik wrote:
i feel that widow mines really shut down variety for zerg, at least attack vs air should be removed so that terran can not safely go 3 CC with minimal defenses



Huh.

I wonder what this reminds me of. Some unit... that completely makes it safe to go up to 3 bases very easily...


In all seriousness though, Widow Mines are a little over strong, but not by a crazy amount. I must be forgetting a unit though, because it doesn't seem like Terran really got anything to replace the Warhound... its just WoL Terran with an OP ground+air splash damage unit.
shaGuar :: elemeNt :: XeqtR :: naikon :: method
Boucot
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
France15997 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-07 16:21:45
March 07 2013 16:21 GMT
#2808
On March 08 2013 01:15 kyllinghest wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 01:14 StarVe wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:13 Boucot wrote:
What's the tech building required for Vipers ? Spire ?

Spire and hive, I think.

No spire, just hive required

But... normally each zerg unit needs a building tech to be produced, right ?
Former SC2 writer for Millenium - twitter.com/Boucot
furo
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany449 Posts
March 07 2013 16:21 GMT
#2809
stephano should try ling bane into ultra, macro games with roach infesters are pretty meh vs 3+ base terran...
samurai80
Profile Joined November 2011
Japan4225 Posts
March 07 2013 16:21 GMT
#2810
Please Stephano, win this !! You can do it !
Heartland
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Sweden24604 Posts
March 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#2811
Why is it not 400 000 viewers??!1 #esportsisdying
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
March 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#2812
On March 08 2013 01:20 Musicus wrote:
Show nested quote +
EGStephano ‏@EGStephanoRC

I've thrown away that game. Shouldn't have taken the fight on the highground without my vipers.


Exactly, how it is supposed to FUCKING be!!! All those whiners here, oh my god.. He made mistake, he lost, period.. Skill matters, game is very balanced now in terms of skill requirement to pull of vicotry..
Leetley
Profile Joined October 2010
1796 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-03-07 16:24:05
March 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#2813
On March 08 2013 01:18 Insoleet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 01:17 vojnik wrote:
i feel that widow mines really shut down variety for zerg, at least attack vs air should be removed so that terran can not safely go 3 CC with minimal defenses


I agree

Reapers, hellions, mines harass would be strong, but no anti air. So, zerg could answer by going mutalisks and harass the hell out of the greedy terran.

Hum, I can kinda agree too. Terrans have their turrets and marines to defend from mutas, so they don't necessarily need widow mines too.
Hylirion
Profile Joined March 2012
Netherlands968 Posts
March 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#2814
On March 08 2013 01:18 Insoleet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 01:17 vojnik wrote:
i feel that widow mines really shut down variety for zerg, at least attack vs air should be removed so that terran can not safely go 3 CC with minimal defenses


Reapers, hellions, mines harass would be strong, but no anti air. So, zerg could answer by going mutalisks and harass the hell out of the greedy terran.


Yeah because harrassing is cleary a greedy play...
jj33
Profile Joined April 2011
802 Posts
March 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#2815
On March 08 2013 01:18 Lysanias wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 01:16 jj33 wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:11 vthree wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:07 Lysanias wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:04 Poopi wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:02 Redox wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:00 Weavel wrote:
On March 08 2013 00:59 sparklyresidue wrote:
Zerg winning = zerg hate, zerg losing = zerg hate. Seems like these threads have just become zerg bashing sprees over the last 6 mos.
Might have something to do with swarm of zergs balance whining. Reminds me of 2010 and early 2011 LR threads...

Terran hate back then has never been on the same level as zerg hate now. Although the Terran domination back then was way bigger then the Zerg one ever was.

How was zerg domination lower than terran's one?
Did you see foreign terrans beating top koreans zergs repeateadly?
Zerg got the most GSL wins and some absurd cash winning in 2012, it's not even funny.


To be honest though we don't have many "good" foreign terrans at the top level of play :p


And why is that? Are terrans inherently harder for foreigners to play?



Terran is harder to play at a pro level period. was the same in bw, same in sc2


Why do people still play terran then i wonder ? More easy to play other races after all in both games.



IN the hands a pro like MVP, terran is extremely effective. Terran at the upmost level has a extremely high skill ceiling/reward.
Surili
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1141 Posts
March 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#2816
Almost 50k viewers overall. not bad.
The world is ending what should we do about it?
TimENT
Profile Joined November 2012
United States1425 Posts
March 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#2817
On March 08 2013 01:21 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 01:19 Bagi wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:14 Bagi wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:09 Bagi wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:05 Fragile51 wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:02 Bagi wrote:
[quote]
As terran I gotta say I could probably win PvZ handily by turtling into VR/colossi on 3 base.

Your point?


You could maybe. Not saying that skytoss is balanced. What's your point?


His point is that you shouldn't make claims without evidence that contribute literally nothing to anything aside from pissing people off.


Take Yoda's opening vs Ret as evidence. Maybe stop arguing with me just because you feel like it.

As evidence of what? That certain strategies can win games?

Once again, thanks for that nugget of wisdom. Terran has ways to beat zerg. Amazing.


As evidence that some openings and overall playstyles are extremely strong vs current standard zerg? Which was my point in the first place. It will win in the hands of good players. Whether or not that's a balance issue or zerg just has to play differently remains to be explored.

You're really not reading this too well.

If you wanna call it overpowered, just say its overpowered. No need for this circling around the issue, "oh I could beat zerg by doing this and that with terran".

I'm reading it all too well, Its just that thinly veiled balance whining annoys me.


Lol. I'm protoss, I don't really care about TvZ balance. It's too strong vs current standard zerg. That's what I'm saying. That and nothing else. You're a terrible reader.

If you don't care about the balance, why are you here commenting? You're saying its too strong, you're saying its overpowered, you are balance whining. Stop with this bullshit about "terrible readers", there is nothing subtle about your posts.


Rofl. Go back and read what I said. It's too strong vs current standard zerg for that current standard to be viable. There might be other standard-capable openings for zerg.

Putting it into the most simple words for you so you don't have to think:
Current terran openings > current standard opening.
Current zerg opening might have to be changed by zerg.

How the flying f- is that balance whine.


You are the sole reason people hate LR threads. Always arguing about pointless bullshit and starting more bullshit arguments.
Barcelona / Arsenal Fan!
Elairec
Profile Joined June 2011
United States410 Posts
March 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#2818
On March 08 2013 01:21 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 08 2013 01:19 Bagi wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:15 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:14 Bagi wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:11 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:09 Bagi wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:05 Fragile51 wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:04 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On March 08 2013 01:02 Bagi wrote:
[quote]
As terran I gotta say I could probably win PvZ handily by turtling into VR/colossi on 3 base.

Your point?


You could maybe. Not saying that skytoss is balanced. What's your point?


His point is that you shouldn't make claims without evidence that contribute literally nothing to anything aside from pissing people off.


Take Yoda's opening vs Ret as evidence. Maybe stop arguing with me just because you feel like it.

As evidence of what? That certain strategies can win games?

Once again, thanks for that nugget of wisdom. Terran has ways to beat zerg. Amazing.


As evidence that some openings and overall playstyles are extremely strong vs current standard zerg? Which was my point in the first place. It will win in the hands of good players. Whether or not that's a balance issue or zerg just has to play differently remains to be explored.

You're really not reading this too well.

If you wanna call it overpowered, just say its overpowered. No need for this circling around the issue, "oh I could beat zerg by doing this and that with terran".

I'm reading it all too well, Its just that thinly veiled balance whining annoys me.


Lol. I'm protoss, I don't really care about TvZ balance. It's too strong vs current standard zerg. That's what I'm saying. That and nothing else. You're a terrible reader.

If you don't care about the balance, why are you here commenting? You're saying its too strong, you're saying its overpowered, you are balance whining. Stop with this bullshit about "terrible readers", there is nothing subtle about your posts.


Rofl. Go back and read what I said. It's too strong vs current standard zerg for that current standard to be viable. There might be other standard-capable openings for zerg.

Putting it into the most simple words for you so you don't have to think:
Current terran openings > current standard opening.
Current zerg opening might have to be changed by zerg.

How the flying f- is that balance whine.


Amazing how a comment that started off innocent enough, blew up into this dumbshit argument. Just let it go Bagi.
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
March 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#2819
On March 08 2013 01:18 DJHelium wrote:
Other than defending the hellion drop, I think Stephano played very well. Antiga is a hard map with roach/hydra just because of the weakness vs drops and the strength of bio/tank.


I don't know shit, but I saw HyuN bring spore crawlers to feed the vipers. If Stephano had done that then he wouldn't have to bring them back home, and perhaps continue to hold the middle with his army intact.
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
BronzeKnee
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5226 Posts
March 07 2013 16:22 GMT
#2820
On March 08 2013 01:21 furo wrote:
stephano should try ling bane into ultra, macro games with roach infesters are pretty meh vs 3+ base terran...


I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Lings and Banes are dead in ZvT because of Widow Mines... Mines are too good versus Lings and Banes for those units to be viable.
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