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On March 02 2013 19:11 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 17:08 samurai80 wrote:On March 02 2013 02:01 Wingblade wrote:On March 02 2013 01:43 TimENT wrote:On March 02 2013 01:33 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 02 2013 01:04 Wingblade wrote:On March 02 2013 00:57 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 02 2013 00:20 Wingblade wrote:
The funniest thing is that LR threads aren't filled with balance whine every time Protoss gets beaten like a rented mule in GSL(that's most of the time). Maybe because Terran is so used to having it easy and now that they don't, suddenly IMBA. Don't worry Terran your looking in fine shape for Hots! Maybe the P race doesn't have the same appeal. For me, sc is all about evil humans fighting badass insects, and then some alien guy who wasn't invited to the party shows up and fire his laser. More seriously, TvZ has always been the royal matchup in the sc universe, the matchup in which the bw bonjwas became bonjwa, meanwhile P players failed to build such story lines. Maybe this is a legacy from bw, but if TvZ in sc2 looks fucked as it is now, and as it was in early wol, then people will be more likely to go apeshit because this match-up is sc2's main event. If P is struggling, well that's unfortunate but less of a news. I'm a racist cunt. It's quite sad too, people saying that TvZ is the best matchup is more of a carryover from BW and early 2012 SC2 than any actual truth. TvP has been the best-designed and most dynamic matchup for almost a year now, super early pressure is still viable, armies are constantly moving around the map, there's a ton of multitasking, and it's well balanced. Yeah I fully agree and most people think the same way I guess. Despite being limited on tech choice (no mech or skytoss), TvP is tense and action-packed. TvT is easily better than TvP. TvZ was far superior to TvP when mutalingbling vs marinetank existed. I have to disagree TvT is not better than TvP. Watching TvT looks like I'm watching World War 1 koprulu sector style. And that's bio-mech, watching a Mech v Mech game is like watching a sumo match that last 20+ minutes. I've never found appeal in the matchup, call me super bias but it looks like a giant standoff until someone makes a mistake and then it ends. My thought exactly. Looking at those sieged tanks shooting at each other don't appeal me at all. I mean, a tank is an immobile unit when sieged. I know you have to position them and that this is strategical, which is fine, but I prefer something that moves more. Of course you have the drops etc, but still these tank wars remain the main of the battle. But well, here when I say that I'm told "I'm different" (which means I'm not a terran fanboy !?) That's the whole reason why TvT is good, the powerful nature of the siege tank means you can't just chase each other around and smack armies into each other and flood the screen with infested Terrans or colossus lasers. You have to think carefully about how you engage, often trade lots of supply for small positional gains, and harassing well and knowing how to split up your army is key. It's a way more interesting type of game to watch than the other mirrors.
True, TvT is a pretty damn good matchup. Sure it isn't the greatest thing in SC2 (pre-patch TvZ was). Some of it partially has to do with the other matchups sucking balls too...
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On March 02 2013 07:23 geokilla wrote:
Taeja was two greedy in game 3 and 4... Also it seems like his injury or concentration was causing him to play badly.
You can't win if you aren't greedy vs Zerg.
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On March 02 2013 19:41 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 19:11 forsooth wrote:On March 02 2013 17:08 samurai80 wrote:On March 02 2013 02:01 Wingblade wrote:On March 02 2013 01:43 TimENT wrote:On March 02 2013 01:33 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 02 2013 01:04 Wingblade wrote:On March 02 2013 00:57 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 02 2013 00:20 Wingblade wrote:
The funniest thing is that LR threads aren't filled with balance whine every time Protoss gets beaten like a rented mule in GSL(that's most of the time). Maybe because Terran is so used to having it easy and now that they don't, suddenly IMBA. Don't worry Terran your looking in fine shape for Hots! Maybe the P race doesn't have the same appeal. For me, sc is all about evil humans fighting badass insects, and then some alien guy who wasn't invited to the party shows up and fire his laser. More seriously, TvZ has always been the royal matchup in the sc universe, the matchup in which the bw bonjwas became bonjwa, meanwhile P players failed to build such story lines. Maybe this is a legacy from bw, but if TvZ in sc2 looks fucked as it is now, and as it was in early wol, then people will be more likely to go apeshit because this match-up is sc2's main event. If P is struggling, well that's unfortunate but less of a news. I'm a racist cunt. It's quite sad too, people saying that TvZ is the best matchup is more of a carryover from BW and early 2012 SC2 than any actual truth. TvP has been the best-designed and most dynamic matchup for almost a year now, super early pressure is still viable, armies are constantly moving around the map, there's a ton of multitasking, and it's well balanced. Yeah I fully agree and most people think the same way I guess. Despite being limited on tech choice (no mech or skytoss), TvP is tense and action-packed. TvT is easily better than TvP. TvZ was far superior to TvP when mutalingbling vs marinetank existed. I have to disagree TvT is not better than TvP. Watching TvT looks like I'm watching World War 1 koprulu sector style. And that's bio-mech, watching a Mech v Mech game is like watching a sumo match that last 20+ minutes. I've never found appeal in the matchup, call me super bias but it looks like a giant standoff until someone makes a mistake and then it ends. My thought exactly. Looking at those sieged tanks shooting at each other don't appeal me at all. I mean, a tank is an immobile unit when sieged. I know you have to position them and that this is strategical, which is fine, but I prefer something that moves more. Of course you have the drops etc, but still these tank wars remain the main of the battle. But well, here when I say that I'm told "I'm different" (which means I'm not a terran fanboy !?) That's the whole reason why TvT is good, the powerful nature of the siege tank means you can't just chase each other around and smack armies into each other and flood the screen with infested Terrans or colossus lasers. You have to think carefully about how you engage, often trade lots of supply for small positional gains, and harassing well and knowing how to split up your army is key. It's a way more interesting type of game to watch than the other mirrors. True, TvT is a pretty damn good matchup. Sure it isn't the greatest thing in SC2 (pre-patch TvZ was). Some of it partially has to do with the other matchups sucking balls too...
tvt always was the best matchup. almost every game is entirely different. tvz was entertaining with its dynamics but it was always the same
gomtvt was my favorite period of sc2.
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On March 02 2013 19:11 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 17:08 samurai80 wrote:On March 02 2013 02:01 Wingblade wrote:On March 02 2013 01:43 TimENT wrote:On March 02 2013 01:33 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 02 2013 01:04 Wingblade wrote:On March 02 2013 00:57 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 02 2013 00:20 Wingblade wrote:
The funniest thing is that LR threads aren't filled with balance whine every time Protoss gets beaten like a rented mule in GSL(that's most of the time). Maybe because Terran is so used to having it easy and now that they don't, suddenly IMBA. Don't worry Terran your looking in fine shape for Hots! Maybe the P race doesn't have the same appeal. For me, sc is all about evil humans fighting badass insects, and then some alien guy who wasn't invited to the party shows up and fire his laser. More seriously, TvZ has always been the royal matchup in the sc universe, the matchup in which the bw bonjwas became bonjwa, meanwhile P players failed to build such story lines. Maybe this is a legacy from bw, but if TvZ in sc2 looks fucked as it is now, and as it was in early wol, then people will be more likely to go apeshit because this match-up is sc2's main event. If P is struggling, well that's unfortunate but less of a news. I'm a racist cunt. It's quite sad too, people saying that TvZ is the best matchup is more of a carryover from BW and early 2012 SC2 than any actual truth. TvP has been the best-designed and most dynamic matchup for almost a year now, super early pressure is still viable, armies are constantly moving around the map, there's a ton of multitasking, and it's well balanced. Yeah I fully agree and most people think the same way I guess. Despite being limited on tech choice (no mech or skytoss), TvP is tense and action-packed. TvT is easily better than TvP. TvZ was far superior to TvP when mutalingbling vs marinetank existed. I have to disagree TvT is not better than TvP. Watching TvT looks like I'm watching World War 1 koprulu sector style. And that's bio-mech, watching a Mech v Mech game is like watching a sumo match that last 20+ minutes. I've never found appeal in the matchup, call me super bias but it looks like a giant standoff until someone makes a mistake and then it ends. My thought exactly. Looking at those sieged tanks shooting at each other don't appeal me at all. I mean, a tank is an immobile unit when sieged. I know you have to position them and that this is strategical, which is fine, but I prefer something that moves more. Of course you have the drops etc, but still these tank wars remain the main of the battle. But well, here when I say that I'm told "I'm different" (which means I'm not a terran fanboy !?) That's the whole reason why TvT is good, the powerful nature of the siege tank means you can't just chase each other around and smack armies into each other and flood the screen with infested Terrans or colossus lasers. You have to think carefully about how you engage, often trade lots of supply for small positional gains, and harassing well and knowing how to split up your army is key. It's a way more interesting type of game to watch than the other mirrors.
A position can't be attacked in TvT = awesome positional match-up
A position can't be attacked in PvP = boring stalemate position
Just keep calling it what you want.
And to the guy who said every TvT was different in GomTvT... I only got two words: LOL NO.
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Well gsl was beaultiful for a while ... I even woke up 2 hours earlier just too see the games. Then I started watching only when I was awake, then I started only following results with certain delay. Now I see results with a lot of delay and really sad with what the game has became. It's not just about balance, it's overall the lack of adrenaline ZvZ gives me =(
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Taeja deserved to win the last code S of wol, he was so dominant in the last months, compare that to Roro, but whatever. Kinda expected another ZvZ finals and I am not gonna watch it. Cant wait for Hots!
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TvT isn't the best because marines vs marines can be unpleasant to watch, since it's just a big attack-moving army. If the army compositions are asymmetrical TvT is very interesting though.
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On March 02 2013 23:42 Aquila- wrote:
Taeja deserved to win the last code S of wol, he was so dominant in the last months, compare that to Roro, but whatever. Kinda expected another ZvZ finals and I am not gonna watch it. Cant wait for Hots!
Taeja wasn't dominant at all in the last months and he barely adavanced from group stages, because DRG threw the games
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On March 03 2013 00:46 Grumbels wrote:
TvT isn't the best because marines vs marines can be unpleasant to watch, since it's just a big attack-moving army. If the army compositions are asymmetrical TvT is very interesting though.
Exactly this. TvT can be great. Or it can be decided by a 1-1 upgrade lead on marines.
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On March 03 2013 00:46 Grumbels wrote:
TvT isn't the best because marines vs marines can be unpleasant to watch, since it's just a big attack-moving army. If the army compositions are asymmetrical TvT is very interesting though.
Really? I find the positional game of Marine Tank vs Marine Tank the most enjoyable to watch.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On March 02 2013 23:42 Aquila- wrote:
Taeja deserved to win the last code S of wol, he was so dominant in the last months, compare that to Roro, but whatever. Kinda expected another ZvZ finals and I am not gonna watch it. Cant wait for Hots!
RorO has actually been looking very good in Proleague since somewhere in Round 2 and is one of few KeSPA players to make it into Code S, let alone do it twice. It's not like it's an Mvp-stretch of dominance, but Taeja wasn't "dominant" for very long, either.
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On March 03 2013 00:55 kju wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 23:42 Aquila- wrote:
Taeja deserved to win the last code S of wol, he was so dominant in the last months, compare that to Roro, but whatever. Kinda expected another ZvZ finals and I am not gonna watch it. Cant wait for Hots! Taeja wasn't dominant at all in the last months and he barely adavanced from group stages, because DRG threw the games
I wish people would get banned for saying this. He was very upset after the games. It is insulting to say things like this.
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On March 03 2013 01:50 wammyz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 00:55 kju wrote:On March 02 2013 23:42 Aquila- wrote:
Taeja deserved to win the last code S of wol, he was so dominant in the last months, compare that to Roro, but whatever. Kinda expected another ZvZ finals and I am not gonna watch it. Cant wait for Hots! Taeja wasn't dominant at all in the last months and he barely adavanced from group stages, because DRG threw the games I wish people would get banned for saying this. He was very upset after the games. It is insulting to say things like this.
From a business/rational perspective, it makes sense to pay players to throw games than to lose money from a zvz finals due to poor ratings.
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On March 03 2013 00:46 Grumbels wrote:
TvT isn't the best because marines vs marines can be unpleasant to watch, since it's just a big attack-moving army. If the army compositions are asymmetrical TvT is very interesting though.
Nobody makes just marines in TvT, you see either marine/tank or bio. And marine/tank TvT is about as un-attack movey as it gets.
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On March 03 2013 00:59 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 00:46 Grumbels wrote:
TvT isn't the best because marines vs marines can be unpleasant to watch, since it's just a big attack-moving army. If the army compositions are asymmetrical TvT is very interesting though. Really? I find the positional game of Marine Tank vs Marine Tank the most enjoyable to watch.
That's great you like it. But watching the mobile positional play of TvP is so much more interesting than the stale, stationary positioning of TvT. Armies are constantly moving around in high level PvT trying to control certain attack paths and control expansions, plus Terran drops, warp prism play, etc. etc.
TvP has always been very interesting to me, and its definitely the best non-mirror now.
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On March 02 2013 21:15 totauksz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 19:41 Thrillz wrote:On March 02 2013 19:11 forsooth wrote:On March 02 2013 17:08 samurai80 wrote:On March 02 2013 02:01 Wingblade wrote:On March 02 2013 01:43 TimENT wrote:On March 02 2013 01:33 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 02 2013 01:04 Wingblade wrote:On March 02 2013 00:57 Lukeeze[zR] wrote:On March 02 2013 00:20 Wingblade wrote:
The funniest thing is that LR threads aren't filled with balance whine every time Protoss gets beaten like a rented mule in GSL(that's most of the time). Maybe because Terran is so used to having it easy and now that they don't, suddenly IMBA. Don't worry Terran your looking in fine shape for Hots! Maybe the P race doesn't have the same appeal. For me, sc is all about evil humans fighting badass insects, and then some alien guy who wasn't invited to the party shows up and fire his laser. More seriously, TvZ has always been the royal matchup in the sc universe, the matchup in which the bw bonjwas became bonjwa, meanwhile P players failed to build such story lines. Maybe this is a legacy from bw, but if TvZ in sc2 looks fucked as it is now, and as it was in early wol, then people will be more likely to go apeshit because this match-up is sc2's main event. If P is struggling, well that's unfortunate but less of a news. I'm a racist cunt. It's quite sad too, people saying that TvZ is the best matchup is more of a carryover from BW and early 2012 SC2 than any actual truth. TvP has been the best-designed and most dynamic matchup for almost a year now, super early pressure is still viable, armies are constantly moving around the map, there's a ton of multitasking, and it's well balanced. Yeah I fully agree and most people think the same way I guess. Despite being limited on tech choice (no mech or skytoss), TvP is tense and action-packed. TvT is easily better than TvP. TvZ was far superior to TvP when mutalingbling vs marinetank existed. I have to disagree TvT is not better than TvP. Watching TvT looks like I'm watching World War 1 koprulu sector style. And that's bio-mech, watching a Mech v Mech game is like watching a sumo match that last 20+ minutes. I've never found appeal in the matchup, call me super bias but it looks like a giant standoff until someone makes a mistake and then it ends. My thought exactly. Looking at those sieged tanks shooting at each other don't appeal me at all. I mean, a tank is an immobile unit when sieged. I know you have to position them and that this is strategical, which is fine, but I prefer something that moves more. Of course you have the drops etc, but still these tank wars remain the main of the battle. But well, here when I say that I'm told "I'm different" (which means I'm not a terran fanboy !?) That's the whole reason why TvT is good, the powerful nature of the siege tank means you can't just chase each other around and smack armies into each other and flood the screen with infested Terrans or colossus lasers. You have to think carefully about how you engage, often trade lots of supply for small positional gains, and harassing well and knowing how to split up your army is key. It's a way more interesting type of game to watch than the other mirrors. True, TvT is a pretty damn good matchup. Sure it isn't the greatest thing in SC2 (pre-patch TvZ was). Some of it partially has to do with the other matchups sucking balls too... tvt always was the best matchup. almost every game is entirely different. tvz was entertaining with its dynamics but it was always the same gomtvt was my favorite period of sc2.
*facepalm* yea no every game is NOT entirely different, I've seen more than enough TvT to know this. GomTvT was a snooze fest for me, oh look tanks completely invalidate moving through half the map. Oh look, he's containing him with tanks. Oh look, now the container has every base on the map and there's nothing the other guy can do.
And then the guy containing either makes a huge mistake, and loses, or doesn't and wins.
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On March 03 2013 02:01 ppshchik wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 01:50 wammyz wrote:On March 03 2013 00:55 kju wrote:On March 02 2013 23:42 Aquila- wrote:
Taeja deserved to win the last code S of wol, he was so dominant in the last months, compare that to Roro, but whatever. Kinda expected another ZvZ finals and I am not gonna watch it. Cant wait for Hots! Taeja wasn't dominant at all in the last months and he barely adavanced from group stages, because DRG threw the games I wish people would get banned for saying this. He was very upset after the games. It is insulting to say things like this. From a business/rational perspective, it makes sense to pay players to throw games than to lose money from a zvz finals due to poor ratings.
Yeah, that's why Curious beat Parting with an easy 3-0, because that was GOM's desired outcome.
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On March 03 2013 02:21 Wingblade wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 00:59 sharkie wrote:On March 03 2013 00:46 Grumbels wrote:
TvT isn't the best because marines vs marines can be unpleasant to watch, since it's just a big attack-moving army. If the army compositions are asymmetrical TvT is very interesting though. Really? I find the positional game of Marine Tank vs Marine Tank the most enjoyable to watch. That's great you like it. But watching the mobile positional play of TvP is so much more interesting than the stale, stationary positioning of TvT.
Have you ever watched marine tank battles? It's the mobile positional play of TvP, except it isn't 1 army vs 1 army. It's often 3 armies from each side PLUS drops everywhere.
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EPT
