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On February 25 2013 19:48 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:46 Heartland wrote:On February 25 2013 19:45 Alak wrote:On February 25 2013 19:43 Heartland wrote:On February 25 2013 19:42 Alak wrote:On February 25 2013 19:40 MiraMax wrote:On February 25 2013 19:34 Alak wrote:
The problem with timewarp is that there's so little micro involved.
I mean, it's just a jump to the left. That's complete bull... Please educate yourself before you criticize an ability for lack of micro potential. Everybody knows that it's just a jump to the left AND then a step to the riiiight ... Worlds of difference... This is true, and I apologize. I guess madness takes its toll. If anyone ever does a proper Time Warp ceremony I will go to Korea personally and kiss them. I would join you in a heartbeat. Quick, someone introduce Rocky Horror to the proteams! I want them to dream Meatloaf and breathe Tim Curry! I want Gom to put on Rocky Horror as a stage show. Khaldor will be Rocky. Artosis will be Dr Frank-N-Furter I don't know if I could handle Artosis in drag.
You know you're longing for it.
Tasteless will play Meatloaf's role.
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i like how we've been switching around different matchups so far 
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On February 25 2013 19:51 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:49 SC2ShoWTimE wrote:On February 25 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:43 AxionSteel wrote:On February 25 2013 19:41 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:37 LimitSEA wrote:On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:
That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all. That drop denial was alllll Hots. The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time. Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units. What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested. Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight. maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective. That sounds like Thorzain. Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required.
when has gas been an issue for Terrans?
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On February 25 2013 19:51 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:48 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote:
i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different. This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence. I disagree very much so. I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly. I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it. I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that.
it does now, but I think as the metagame and maps develop to accommodate it better I think it'll clean up nicely. But this is just speculation from both of us, neither of us really know we can just guess.
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On February 25 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:43 AxionSteel wrote:On February 25 2013 19:41 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:37 LimitSEA wrote:On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:
That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all. That drop denial was alllll Hots. The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time. Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units. What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested. Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition
Never said they weren't, just korean terrans seem to be reluctant to get away from their Bio play, at least from what i've seen, but that's limited sample size i guess 
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On February 25 2013 19:52 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:51 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:49 SC2ShoWTimE wrote:On February 25 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:43 AxionSteel wrote:On February 25 2013 19:41 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:37 LimitSEA wrote:On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:
That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all. That drop denial was alllll Hots. The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time. Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units. What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested. Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight. maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective. That sounds like Thorzain. Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required. when has gas been an issue for Terrans?
When you're playing Mech, gas is a huge issue.
Bio play is the only style that is more mineral intensive, the moment you start focusing on Starport and Factory units the gas prices get high really quickly.
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 25 2013 19:52 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:51 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:48 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote:
i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different. This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence. I disagree very much so. I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly. I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it. I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that. it does now, but I think as the metagame and maps develop to accommodate it better I think it'll clean up nicely. But this is just speculation from both of us, neither of us really know we can just guess.
True. I like the concept of punishing turtling but it's waaaay too strong right now. And I feel like it's a unit that can only be too strong or completely useless.
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On February 25 2013 19:51 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:48 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote:
i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different. This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence. I disagree very much so. I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly. I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it. I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that. People don't appreciate PvP enough. Yeah it's lots of laz0r wars but at least getting there is interesting. More interesting than 4gate wars at least.
4 gate wars was a quick display of micro, laz0r wars is 20min of boredom.
I think the swarm host will eventually lead to positional play, somewhat like a gimped version of the lurker.
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Austria24422 Posts
On February 25 2013 19:55 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:51 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:48 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote:
i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different. This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence. I disagree very much so. I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly. I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it. I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that. People don't appreciate PvP enough. Yeah it's lots of laz0r wars but at least getting there is interesting. More interesting than 4gate wars at least. 4 gate wars was a quick display of micro, laz0r wars is 20min of boredom. I think the swarm host will eventually lead to positional play, somewhat like a gimped version of the lurker.
It was rarely decided by micro really. It was decided by who had the better composition. One more stalker for either side won the game. Right now there's tons of early/midgame options for aggressive/defensive strats and games can go back and forth. Decisionmaking is important, building good compositions, etc. PvP went from being an extremely shallow matchup to one that rewards smart play. It got more skill oriented. Some don't like to watch it but in terms of playing and expression of skill, PvP went from 0 to 100
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On February 25 2013 19:53 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:52 .kv wrote:On February 25 2013 19:51 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:49 SC2ShoWTimE wrote:On February 25 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:43 AxionSteel wrote:On February 25 2013 19:41 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:37 LimitSEA wrote:On February 25 2013 19:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:
That was purely WoL, widow mines did nothing at all. That drop denial was alllll Hots. The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time. Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units. What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested. Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight. maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective. That sounds like Thorzain. Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required. when has gas been an issue for Terrans? When you're playing Mech, gas is a huge issue. Bio play is the only style that is more mineral intensive, the moment you start focusing on Starport and Factory units the gas prices get high really quickly.
Thorzain opens bio
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Yay, SH ^^
too bad First will probably make them look dumb as he seems much better than Sleep
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On February 25 2013 19:58 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:53 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:52 .kv wrote:On February 25 2013 19:51 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:49 SC2ShoWTimE wrote:On February 25 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:43 AxionSteel wrote:On February 25 2013 19:41 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:37 LimitSEA wrote:
[quote]
That drop denial was alllll Hots. The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time. Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units. What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested. Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight. maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective. That sounds like Thorzain. Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required. when has gas been an issue for Terrans? When you're playing Mech, gas is a huge issue. Bio play is the only style that is more mineral intensive, the moment you start focusing on Starport and Factory units the gas prices get high really quickly. Thorzain opens bio
one reaper lol
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Sleep is supply block zerg lol.
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Seems to me like Sleep is going to be destroyed.
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On February 25 2013 19:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:55 bo1b wrote:On February 25 2013 19:51 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:48 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:47 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:46 opterown wrote:
i think hots looks good in terms of gameplay just because it is new, and we haven't seen much of it. can't really say much about whether it might become stale over time.
after all, a generic lategame wol zvp might have been voted one of the best games ever had it happened in early 2011, since it would have been different. This. Also there will be tons of nerfs, buffs and tweaks. I predict that swarm hosts will be nerfed into nonexistence. I disagree very much so. I think the Swarm Host will inevitably be one of the best new additions to the game once players figure out how to use it and counter it properly. I'm saying this more on faith but there's a lot of glimpses of potential in the unit that I've seen that make me hopeful about it. I think it'll be the worst addition once it's figured out, lol. It forces all ins and I hate that. People don't appreciate PvP enough. Yeah it's lots of laz0r wars but at least getting there is interesting. More interesting than 4gate wars at least. 4 gate wars was a quick display of micro, laz0r wars is 20min of boredom. I think the swarm host will eventually lead to positional play, somewhat like a gimped version of the lurker. It was rarely decided by micro really. It was decided by who had the better composition. One more stalker for either side won the game. Right now there's tons of early/midgame options for aggressive/defensive strats and games can go back and forth. Decisionmaking is important, building good compositions, etc. PvP went from being an extremely shallow matchup to one that rewards smart play. It got more skill oriented. Some don't like to watch it but in terms of playing and expression of skill, PvP went from 0 to 100
Sure, but in my perspective as a spectator it became horrible.
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This! This is the build I want to see, make queens with them
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On February 25 2013 19:58 .kv wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2013 19:53 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:52 .kv wrote:On February 25 2013 19:51 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:49 SC2ShoWTimE wrote:On February 25 2013 19:44 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:43 AxionSteel wrote:On February 25 2013 19:41 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2013 19:39 DarkLordOlli wrote:On February 25 2013 19:37 LimitSEA wrote:
[quote]
That drop denial was alllll Hots. The first one, second one was stormed out. The game overall was WoL PvT with a few slight additions like MSC and afterburners. But even the strats from both were WoL TBH that's how PvT has been going on the beta for a long time. Mech is better off than WoL but it's still hard as fuck to play it perfectly so most Terrans will stick with bio play which doesn't really benefit much at all from the new units. What I can see happening is some more incorporation of Ravens into the match up since Seeker Missile is now so much better but that's a risky transition considering the power of Feedback. /shrug Really can't see pros using ravens vs protoss, for the reason you suggested. Ravens are ridiculously good lategame with Ghosts and a mech composition yea lol just watch thorzain. an army out of raven/viking/battle cruiser/ghost and some tanks is basically impossible to beat as protoss. mass pdd soak up stalker/tempest shots for ever. ghost beat ht with good control and hunter seeker missile or yamato cannon deal massive damage to carrier and tempest. vikings destroy void rays/colossai. there is not much you can do in a direct fight. maybe it isnt impossible to beat but it is super cost effective. That sounds like Thorzain. Obvious problem with that kind of unit composition is how ridiculously hard it is to get out that combination of units due to the insane amount of gas required. when has gas been an issue for Terrans? When you're playing Mech, gas is a huge issue. Bio play is the only style that is more mineral intensive, the moment you start focusing on Starport and Factory units the gas prices get high really quickly. Thorzain opens bio
How he opens is rather irrelevant. If that unit composition is his eventual goal, he needs at least 4-5 bases to build it quickly or he needs to build it slowly off of 3 bases while not dying a Protoss attack while he techs.
Of course this is Thorzain we're talking about. Turtling and defending against armies that would kill most Terrans is sort of what he does.
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And gg.
e:
I mean Locust will do shit against that many Collossi and yeh.
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No nydus with this is bad
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EPT
