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On January 29 2013 19:09 Douillos wrote:
2 base timing doesnt mean all in, im talking about something around the 10-12 that hits the Z hard enough.
You really think people don't know what a timing is?
On January 29 2013 19:09 Douillos wrote:
hellion marauder marine, banshee hellion, they all hit around the same timing which will give you a shot in the long run. I havent seen this 3 base macro game ever working against a Z who doesnt make mistakes.
Hellions/Banshees is not a 2-bases timing at all...
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On January 29 2013 19:10 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 19:09 Douillos wrote:
2 base timing doesnt mean all in, im talking about something around the 10-12 that hits the Z hard enough.
Im not talking about 2 base marine tank -_-
hellion marauder marine, banshee hellion, they all hit around the same timing which will give you a shot in the long run. I havent seen this 3 base macro game ever working against a Z who doesnt make mistakes. Watch Startale Bomber's TvZ.
You got any VOD to share? Im willing to get back into the game but frankly tvz is just a source of frustration for me (even watching it)....
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United States23455 Posts
Holy shit, Life just talked to me.
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his early early blueflamehellionS never did much.
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On January 29 2013 19:11 mrRoflpwn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 19:09 OptimusYale wrote:On January 29 2013 19:07 Miami Metro wrote:
Cutscenes like that was why Starcraft was fucking awesome. SC2 is so embarrassing in comparison. That was taken out of SC2 cinematics....... Todays LR is just next level funny...
LR thread always delivers. lol
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On January 29 2013 19:09 nomyx wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 19:06 Windows 7 wrote:On January 29 2013 19:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:On January 29 2013 19:03 mrRoflpwn wrote:On January 29 2013 19:02 Corrosive wrote:On January 29 2013 19:01 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:On January 29 2013 19:00 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 29 2013 18:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
if ryung does not win this
IMBA IMBA IMBA would be justified. Not at all. LosirA is playing a really good strategy but Ryung is hanging in this. LosirA isnt giving Ryung a chance to go on offense though and if he cant go on offense he'll eventually starve out. But what is terran supposed to do against this creep. are you serious? creep op? Next level balance whiners! No you explain me. How ryung shoud have done this. Where he has gone wrong. I am trying to understand what happend. I feel like he was limited by his unit composition. Marine marauder tank seems fine against queen ultra on paper, but like Tastosis said, those ultras just didn't die. Theorycrafting here but perhaps ghosts would have been able to counter that composition? Of course ghosts would have been good, Losira had most of his Queens in a pile (hard to spread off creep) so a few EMPs would be wonderful. Queens are also psionic so snipe does bonus damage.
Ghosts aren't good because they're 2.5x more expensive than a marauder that can't kite. You have to get a sufficient number of ghosts to build energy before you can really do anything with them (same problem as ravens minus infrastructure concerns). If ghost was 100/150 cost it would be much more justifiable. Ghosts cost way too much minerals and have limited aggressive potential.
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On January 29 2013 19:06 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 19:05 Douillos wrote:
Positional play is just useless in zvt. It's a fast paced matchup where you HAVE to hit the Z hard in the midgame to have a chance. this 3cc shit never turns out well for Terran.
That why bogus (Innovation) did so well. You HAVE to hit a 2 base timing that wins you the game. Other than some unscouted all in, I dont remember watching 2 base timings winning the game. You are basically forced into playing greedy macro
Bogus' timings work because they were new. Once he did them once and zergs can see the units/build orders. They can be prepare for the next one. And there is only so many timings available. Not saying they will no longer work. But it is still a risky and not really 'standard play'. It isn't like sentry/immortal where even if zerg knows it is coming, it comes down to micro. For terran timings, if zerg has enough units out, they can defend fairly easily. And once 1 timings gets stopped, you are too behind to be offensive anymore. You basically have to keep defending and try to take a 4th.
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He had no minerals for ghosts.
Ghosts cost 200/100 and he had no minerals but 2000 gas on his bank.
The problem is that terran has no gas sink.
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On January 29 2013 19:11 mrRoflpwn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 19:09 OptimusYale wrote:On January 29 2013 19:07 Miami Metro wrote:
Cutscenes like that was why Starcraft was fucking awesome. SC2 is so embarrassing in comparison. That was taken out of SC2 cinematics....... Todays LR is just next level funny...
Yep, the clueless guy with the cinematics and the whiners beacause Ryung lost - priceless :D
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On January 29 2013 19:05 Qwerty85 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 19:00 Insoleet wrote:On January 29 2013 18:57 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 29 2013 18:57 nomyx wrote:
Ryung with 2400+ gas, is this normal for terrans? When going bio? Absolutely. terrans should ts3 transition to raven when they have do much gas in bank. I met on the ladder a terran building ravens with his gas and it was absurdly strong. Ravens against ultras? Dont think so. But if he transitioned to broodlord corruptor, that could work. But again, raven is 100/200 so you still need minerals, and Ryung was starving for minerals in that game, so he couldn't really afford making starports and ravens.
with building armor, auto turrets are very strong against ultra (because of their dumb ai). and then seeker missile against BL. seeker missiles are also decent against ultras.
mass raven is always the way to go for terrans.
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opterown
Australia54785 Posts
On January 29 2013 19:11 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
hope PartinG wins this one so I can see Losira's ZvP now :3
don't worry you can see if after byun goes 4-0 and ryung 0-4 amirite ;D
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United States33714 Posts
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United States97277 Posts
I missed what was going on in the thread while tastosis were talking about it, but did people decide if the overmind was male or female?
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On January 29 2013 19:10 Douillos wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 19:08 Dodgin wrote:On January 29 2013 19:05 Douillos wrote:
Positional play is just useless in zvt. It's a fast paced matchup where you HAVE to hit the Z hard in the midgame to have a chance. this 3cc shit never turns out well for Terran.
That why bogus (Innovation) did so well. You HAVE to hit a 2 base timing that wins you the game. This is just not true, Bomber never does 2 base timings and he wrecks Zerg. Yeah i was thinkiong of bomber but havent seen any of his games lately.
If you have a ticket watch the VODs for his group, the games vs Sniper. They were just amazing.
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On January 29 2013 19:08 Thinasy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 19:07 Qwerty85 wrote:On January 29 2013 19:06 Windows 7 wrote:On January 29 2013 19:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:On January 29 2013 19:03 mrRoflpwn wrote:On January 29 2013 19:02 Corrosive wrote:On January 29 2013 19:01 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:On January 29 2013 19:00 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 29 2013 18:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
if ryung does not win this
IMBA IMBA IMBA would be justified. Not at all. LosirA is playing a really good strategy but Ryung is hanging in this. LosirA isnt giving Ryung a chance to go on offense though and if he cant go on offense he'll eventually starve out. But what is terran supposed to do against this creep. are you serious? creep op? Next level balance whiners! No you explain me. How ryung shoud have done this. Where he has gone wrong. I am trying to understand what happend. I feel like he was limited by his unit composition. Marine marauder tank seems fine against queen ultra on paper, but like Tastosis said, those ultras just didn't die. Theorycrafting here but perhaps ghosts would have been able to counter that composition? Ghosts against ultras? Are you serious? Yes cause there was ONLY ultras in that army right?, EMP @ Queens and Infestors.
No I think his composition was ok. Marauders work good vs. ultras, they are bigger so fungals are less of a factor, and they are also good vs. banes. Some ravens or ghosts could be a nice addition but you have to get to the root of the problem in that game - Ryung's inability to secure enough bases and mine enough to afford even basic units like marauders, let alone ghosts or ravens.
So no, watching that particular game, ghosts or ravens wouldn't do anything for him. Maybe early raven for creep control but with queen numbers Losira has and apm to spread creep, I dont think that would work that well either, it would just delay any pust Ryung planned to do.
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On January 29 2013 19:11 acrimoneyius wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 19:09 nomyx wrote:On January 29 2013 19:06 Windows 7 wrote:On January 29 2013 19:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:On January 29 2013 19:03 mrRoflpwn wrote:On January 29 2013 19:02 Corrosive wrote:On January 29 2013 19:01 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:On January 29 2013 19:00 Vindicare605 wrote:On January 29 2013 18:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
if ryung does not win this
IMBA IMBA IMBA would be justified. Not at all. LosirA is playing a really good strategy but Ryung is hanging in this. LosirA isnt giving Ryung a chance to go on offense though and if he cant go on offense he'll eventually starve out. But what is terran supposed to do against this creep. are you serious? creep op? Next level balance whiners! No you explain me. How ryung shoud have done this. Where he has gone wrong. I am trying to understand what happend. I feel like he was limited by his unit composition. Marine marauder tank seems fine against queen ultra on paper, but like Tastosis said, those ultras just didn't die. Theorycrafting here but perhaps ghosts would have been able to counter that composition? Of course ghosts would have been good, Losira had most of his Queens in a pile (hard to spread off creep) so a few EMPs would be wonderful. Queens are also psionic so snipe does bonus damage. Ghosts aren't good because they're 2.5x more expensive than a marauder that can't kite. You have to get a sufficient number of ghosts to build energy before you can really do anything with them (same problem as ravens minus infrastructure concerns). If ghost was 100/150 cost it would be much more justifiable. Ghosts cost way too much minerals and have limited aggressive potential.
Ghosts cost too many minerals? I thought they cost too much gas? Then terrans complained and blizzard changed it. Make up your mind...
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On January 29 2013 19:11 Fionn wrote:
Holy shit, Life just talked to me.
hahah what did he say :D
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On January 29 2013 19:10 Vindicare605 wrote:
I personally would've gone Mech after the first game and forced LosirA to beat me with a different unit composition. That same midgame strategy would've been slaughtered by a Mech army.
LosirA would have probably switched to Roaches against mech...
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EPT
