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On January 15 2013 10:17 SwizzY wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 04:35 taLbuk wrote:On January 15 2013 04:17 SwizzY wrote:
JYP 7/13 in his proleague matches and Puma is 0/4. Just some food for thought and your thought is implying? That JYP isn't doing nearly as bad as some people think (though definitely not ace material) and Puma is doing shitty so he either is a god during practice or the coach is just bad for sending out Puma when you are only up 3-2. I don't give a shit if the guy has the worst nerves in the league and just needs support, he hasn't won anything in a looooooong time and shouldn't ever be sent out unless EG-TL is in a guaranteed win. Coach is either not playing with a winning mentality or he's just bad. I think it's the latter
Can't solve a problem by running from it. If puma's got nerves it's probably worth his while to send him out in some clutch situations to build his confidence. Even if it means losing a few games...
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On January 15 2013 02:04 Jochan wrote:
Another horrible match for EGTL. I think this settles the matter, good matches in R1 were just a fluke, EGTL in reality is really weak and will feed other teams.
How has it been another horrible match? Look at their match history in round 2. Other than getting all-killed by flash, they lost 3-4 to both samsung khan and CJ entus. Both those matches could have gone either way, and with their win over SKT1, they could be sitting at 3-1 instead of 1-3. To say they are playing poorly overall is imo just incorrect.
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I trully believe that if EG-Liquid wants to win this proleague, they MUST keep all their stellar players in Korea, STOP the travelling, I know is a matter of sponsorship interest but then, you will fall in shame for being potentially "the best" proleague team finishing not even 4th place, you can send huk, puma, demuslim, idra, zenio, and others to foreing tournaments, no ofense but they are not at the level, both skill and mental, to play in this league. I wish you could take a little bit more serious proleague.
From a dissapointed fan =( still cheering for you, but please.....
EG-TL Hwaiting!!!
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Man I hope stephano does better.
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Kespa teams assign maps to players, and that player practices that map really hard for PL. So, often, the coach sends out the player who spent all his time prepping for that match, regardless of who is in the opposing player's booth. This is why a lot of people screaming about how the coach should have sent out so-and-so instead, don't really understand where the coaches are coming from. Kespa coaches are not in the habit of randomly picking a guy in a reactionary sort of way. It's all pre-assigned based on maps. Not sure if EG-TL works that way, but if so, it would explain why Puma etc was sent out.
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On January 15 2013 12:20 SamsungStar wrote:
Kespa teams assign maps to players, and that player practices that map really hard for PL. So, often, the coach sends out the player who spent all his time prepping for that match, regardless of who is in the opposing player's booth. This is why a lot of people screaming about how the coach should have sent out so-and-so instead, don't really understand where the coaches are coming from. Kespa coaches are not in the habit of randomly picking a guy in a reactionary sort of way. It's all pre-assigned based on maps. Not sure if EG-TL works that way, but if so, it would explain why Puma etc was sent out.
IIRC this is true because on twitter Hwanni stated that HerO doesn't practice on Caldeum, which is why he sent out JYP on Caldeum as ace vs CJ. It also explains why HerO (and Taeja) has never been sent out on Caldeum, because they are assigned to different maps.
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On January 15 2013 10:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 09:59 Tommyth wrote:On January 15 2013 08:19 travis wrote:
I am sure other people complained about this, and I have been trying not to, but SERIOUSLY wtf is the captain for EG-TL doing. Why would you send stephano out first, and why aren't you playing the better players more? I mean sure let puma play if you are up 3-1 or 3-0, but this isn't junior high baseball this is a proleague. And was jaedong still not there?
this is seriously like the 5th or 6th match that I've been disappointed with EG-TL decisionmaking on who to send out Better players? I'm quite convinced that currently Stephano is at least as strong as the rest of the team, and he's also proven many times he's quite good at fighting Koreans. Still, it's commonly known that he loses zvz's even to players considered much worse than him, so I agree that he shouldn't have been sent first. Someone bad at preparing should never be sent out first... heck, have a rule to send him second if you want an all-kill.
Back in the BW PL threads days, I remember fans discuss maps constantly. It was always part of the fun to talk about matchups based on maps and trying to out mind game your opponent. Fast forward to SC2 Proleague, and it seems all the nuances of putting out players based on maps is totally gone from fans' minds. A huge shame, because otherwise there can be some pretty fun discussions rather than a constant stream of rage.
Map order for the match.
<Cloud Kingdom>
<Ohana>
<Entombed Valley>
<Antiga Shipyard>
<Neo Arkanoid>
<Neo Planet S>
< Neo Bifrost>
Stephano bad at preparation.
I would think even the most casual fan who knows anything about maps should see why he was sent out first,
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On January 15 2013 10:23 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 02:04 Jochan wrote:
Another horrible match for EGTL. I think this settles the matter, good matches in R1 were just a fluke, EGTL in reality is really weak and will feed other teams. How has it been another horrible match? Look at their match history in round 2. Other than getting all-killed by flash, they lost 3-4 to both samsung khan and CJ entus. Both those matches could have gone either way, and with their win over SKT1, they could be sitting at 3-1 instead of 1-3. To say they are playing poorly overall is imo just incorrect.
Well, it's the issue of expectations. People expected EG-TL to destroy everyone because they thought players like Taeja, Hero, Jaedong, Stephano, etc etc would be such a stacked team, plus given the additional experience that many of the EG TL players have had with SC2 over the Kespa players plus the fact that the all kill format supposedly was good for the team.
Thus, going 1-3 is pretty bad by those standards. An almost victory is still a defeat, and while map score is important, wins are the most crucial (just ask Stars last season). It is also a reality check though. Having a good team system and infrastructure to train and prepare for the PL is important, and that is one area that I believe EG TL may be lacking in. PL also teaches us that exposure and being well known does not necessarily equate to being the best. Kespa teams have been underestimated by some because they may not have big names, but even these "no-names" can take games off of the top.
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On January 15 2013 12:55 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 10:23 eXigent. wrote:On January 15 2013 02:04 Jochan wrote:
Another horrible match for EGTL. I think this settles the matter, good matches in R1 were just a fluke, EGTL in reality is really weak and will feed other teams. How has it been another horrible match? Look at their match history in round 2. Other than getting all-killed by flash, they lost 3-4 to both samsung khan and CJ entus. Both those matches could have gone either way, and with their win over SKT1, they could be sitting at 3-1 instead of 1-3. To say they are playing poorly overall is imo just incorrect. Well, it's the issue of expectations. People expected EG-TL to destroy everyone because they thought players like Taeja, Hero, Jaedong, Stephano, etc etc would be such a stacked team, plus given the additional experience that many of the EG TL players have had with SC2 over the Kespa players plus the fact that the all kill format supposedly was good for the team. Thus, going 1-3 is pretty bad by those standards. An almost victory is still a defeat, and while map score is important, wins are the most crucial (just ask Stars last season). It is also a reality check though. Having a good team system and infrastructure to train and prepare for the PL is important, and that is one area that I believe EG TL may be lacking in. PL also teaches us that exposure and being well known does not necessarily equate to being the best. Kespa teams have been underestimated by some because they may not have big names, but even these "no-names" can take games off of the top.
Well the allegation was that EGTL is a weak team who feeds and that their wins were flukes. Look at the context. I don't know that you can fairly say that it was a fluke and that EGTL is a team that only feeds off 4-3 results.
Give them some time, have a little more faith. They are playing teams that have years and years of PL experience, this is their first one.
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On January 15 2013 12:46 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 10:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:On January 15 2013 09:59 Tommyth wrote:On January 15 2013 08:19 travis wrote:
I am sure other people complained about this, and I have been trying not to, but SERIOUSLY wtf is the captain for EG-TL doing. Why would you send stephano out first, and why aren't you playing the better players more? I mean sure let puma play if you are up 3-1 or 3-0, but this isn't junior high baseball this is a proleague. And was jaedong still not there?
this is seriously like the 5th or 6th match that I've been disappointed with EG-TL decisionmaking on who to send out Better players? I'm quite convinced that currently Stephano is at least as strong as the rest of the team, and he's also proven many times he's quite good at fighting Koreans. Still, it's commonly known that he loses zvz's even to players considered much worse than him, so I agree that he shouldn't have been sent first. Someone bad at preparing should never be sent out first... heck, have a rule to send him second if you want an all-kill. Back in the BW PL threads days, I remember fans discuss maps constantly. It was always part of the fun to talk about matchups based on maps and trying to out mind game your opponent. Fast forward to SC2 Proleague, and it seems all the nuances of putting out players based on maps is totally gone from fans' minds. A huge shame, because otherwise there can be some pretty fun discussions rather than a constant stream of rage. Map order for the match. <Cloud Kingdom>
<Ohana>
<Entombed Valley>
<Antiga Shipyard><Neo Arkanoid> <Neo Planet S> < Neo Bifrost> Stephano bad at preparation. I would think even the most casual fan who knows anything about maps should see why he was sent out first,
So that he can win 1 game at best and then get sniped on Ohana by Khan's Protoss lineup? Or, if by some miracle he makes it past Ohana, he has another P favored map to play in Entombed?
You are seriously going to talk about how all the nuance of putting out players based on maps is gone from the LR threads and then go on to completely ignore map balance?
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On January 15 2013 13:07 CeriseCherries wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 12:55 Bagration wrote:On January 15 2013 10:23 eXigent. wrote:On January 15 2013 02:04 Jochan wrote:
Another horrible match for EGTL. I think this settles the matter, good matches in R1 were just a fluke, EGTL in reality is really weak and will feed other teams. How has it been another horrible match? Look at their match history in round 2. Other than getting all-killed by flash, they lost 3-4 to both samsung khan and CJ entus. Both those matches could have gone either way, and with their win over SKT1, they could be sitting at 3-1 instead of 1-3. To say they are playing poorly overall is imo just incorrect. Well, it's the issue of expectations. People expected EG-TL to destroy everyone because they thought players like Taeja, Hero, Jaedong, Stephano, etc etc would be such a stacked team, plus given the additional experience that many of the EG TL players have had with SC2 over the Kespa players plus the fact that the all kill format supposedly was good for the team. Thus, going 1-3 is pretty bad by those standards. An almost victory is still a defeat, and while map score is important, wins are the most crucial (just ask Stars last season). It is also a reality check though. Having a good team system and infrastructure to train and prepare for the PL is important, and that is one area that I believe EG TL may be lacking in. PL also teaches us that exposure and being well known does not necessarily equate to being the best. Kespa teams have been underestimated by some because they may not have big names, but even these "no-names" can take games off of the top. Well the allegation was that EGTL is a weak team who feeds and that their wins were flukes. Look at the context. I don't know that you can fairly say that it was a fluke and that EGTL is a team that only feeds off 4-3 results. Give them some time, have a little more faith. They are playing teams that have years and years of PL experience, this is their first one.
I'd say SC2 experience counts for more than PL experience
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On January 15 2013 13:08 Brian333 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 12:46 baubo wrote:On January 15 2013 10:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:On January 15 2013 09:59 Tommyth wrote:On January 15 2013 08:19 travis wrote:
I am sure other people complained about this, and I have been trying not to, but SERIOUSLY wtf is the captain for EG-TL doing. Why would you send stephano out first, and why aren't you playing the better players more? I mean sure let puma play if you are up 3-1 or 3-0, but this isn't junior high baseball this is a proleague. And was jaedong still not there?
this is seriously like the 5th or 6th match that I've been disappointed with EG-TL decisionmaking on who to send out Better players? I'm quite convinced that currently Stephano is at least as strong as the rest of the team, and he's also proven many times he's quite good at fighting Koreans. Still, it's commonly known that he loses zvz's even to players considered much worse than him, so I agree that he shouldn't have been sent first. Someone bad at preparing should never be sent out first... heck, have a rule to send him second if you want an all-kill. Back in the BW PL threads days, I remember fans discuss maps constantly. It was always part of the fun to talk about matchups based on maps and trying to out mind game your opponent. Fast forward to SC2 Proleague, and it seems all the nuances of putting out players based on maps is totally gone from fans' minds. A huge shame, because otherwise there can be some pretty fun discussions rather than a constant stream of rage. Map order for the match. <Cloud Kingdom>
<Ohana>
<Entombed Valley>
<Antiga Shipyard><Neo Arkanoid> <Neo Planet S> < Neo Bifrost> Stephano bad at preparation. I would think even the most casual fan who knows anything about maps should see why he was sent out first, So that he can win 1 game at best and then get sniped on Ohana by Khan's Protoss lineup? Or, if by some miracle he makes it past Ohana, he has another P favored map to play in Entombed? You are seriously going to talk about how all the nuance of putting out players based on maps is gone from the LR threads and then go on to ignore completely ignore map balance?
So you're saying it's smarter to have a player who's infamous for his lack of preparation to play on maps he's never seen before? You think Stephano himself would prefer to play on such maps?
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On January 15 2013 10:23 eXigent. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 02:04 Jochan wrote:
Another horrible match for EGTL. I think this settles the matter, good matches in R1 were just a fluke, EGTL in reality is really weak and will feed other teams. How has it been another horrible match? Look at their match history in round 2. Other than getting all-killed by flash, they lost 3-4 to both samsung khan and CJ entus. Both those matches could have gone either way, and with their win over SKT1, they could be sitting at 3-1 instead of 1-3. To say they are playing poorly overall is imo just incorrect.
Yeah. And on the flip side, what prevents us from saying "bad matches in R2 were just a fluke, EGTL in reality is really strong and should do really well" based on the results from R1? You could literally take exactly what Jochan said and turn it 100% around.
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When idra plays I expect at least two kills per match from. He knows how KeSPA players work being on cj entus in bw and he has best foreign mechanics so I think he can hold his own in proleague. I can see him getting the next mvp award.
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On January 15 2013 13:25 2muchSWAG wrote:
When idra plays I expect at least two kills per match from. He knows how KeSPA players work being on cj entus in bw and he has best foreign mechanics so I think he can hold his own in proleague. I can see him getting the next mvp award.
i can't help but l0l at this
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On January 15 2013 13:25 2muchSWAG wrote:
When idra plays I expect at least two kills per match from. He knows how KeSPA players work being on cj entus in bw and he has best foreign mechanics so I think he can hold his own in proleague. I can see him getting the next mvp award.
this is gold
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no thread for the stars/kt match?
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United States97274 Posts
On January 15 2013 13:44 L3g3nd_ wrote:
no thread for the stars/kt match?
I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to do it but I guess I can run this one at least. not sure about the second match
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On January 15 2013 13:13 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 13:08 Brian333 wrote:On January 15 2013 12:46 baubo wrote:On January 15 2013 10:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:On January 15 2013 09:59 Tommyth wrote:On January 15 2013 08:19 travis wrote:
I am sure other people complained about this, and I have been trying not to, but SERIOUSLY wtf is the captain for EG-TL doing. Why would you send stephano out first, and why aren't you playing the better players more? I mean sure let puma play if you are up 3-1 or 3-0, but this isn't junior high baseball this is a proleague. And was jaedong still not there?
this is seriously like the 5th or 6th match that I've been disappointed with EG-TL decisionmaking on who to send out Better players? I'm quite convinced that currently Stephano is at least as strong as the rest of the team, and he's also proven many times he's quite good at fighting Koreans. Still, it's commonly known that he loses zvz's even to players considered much worse than him, so I agree that he shouldn't have been sent first. Someone bad at preparing should never be sent out first... heck, have a rule to send him second if you want an all-kill. Back in the BW PL threads days, I remember fans discuss maps constantly. It was always part of the fun to talk about matchups based on maps and trying to out mind game your opponent. Fast forward to SC2 Proleague, and it seems all the nuances of putting out players based on maps is totally gone from fans' minds. A huge shame, because otherwise there can be some pretty fun discussions rather than a constant stream of rage. Map order for the match. <Cloud Kingdom>
<Ohana>
<Entombed Valley>
<Antiga Shipyard><Neo Arkanoid> <Neo Planet S> < Neo Bifrost> Stephano bad at preparation. I would think even the most casual fan who knows anything about maps should see why he was sent out first, So that he can win 1 game at best and then get sniped on Ohana by Khan's Protoss lineup? Or, if by some miracle he makes it past Ohana, he has another P favored map to play in Entombed? You are seriously going to talk about how all the nuance of putting out players based on maps is gone from the LR threads and then go on to ignore completely ignore map balance? So you're saying it's smarter to have a player who's infamous for his lack of preparation to play on maps he's never seen before? You think Stephano himself would prefer to play on such maps?
I'm saying Khan is known for their Protoss (regardless of how they've transitioned to SC2). Stephano is your vP player. You wait until Ohana is out so that they cannot ZvP him on that map and hopefully save him for Stork or (more hopefully) Jangbi. Entombed is also P favored but not as horribly as Ohana. That way, Stephano gets 2 maps he is familiar with and 1 that is distinctly Z favored vP. If he makes it past that, Arkanoid is theoretically a good Z map vP. That's certainly much better than 1 even map, 1 heavily P favored map, 1 slightly P favored map, and then hoping he can hold out for an all-kill to play on what should be his map and a likely win v Khan.
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On January 15 2013 12:46 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 10:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:On January 15 2013 09:59 Tommyth wrote:On January 15 2013 08:19 travis wrote:
I am sure other people complained about this, and I have been trying not to, but SERIOUSLY wtf is the captain for EG-TL doing. Why would you send stephano out first, and why aren't you playing the better players more? I mean sure let puma play if you are up 3-1 or 3-0, but this isn't junior high baseball this is a proleague. And was jaedong still not there?
this is seriously like the 5th or 6th match that I've been disappointed with EG-TL decisionmaking on who to send out Better players? I'm quite convinced that currently Stephano is at least as strong as the rest of the team, and he's also proven many times he's quite good at fighting Koreans. Still, it's commonly known that he loses zvz's even to players considered much worse than him, so I agree that he shouldn't have been sent first. Someone bad at preparing should never be sent out first... heck, have a rule to send him second if you want an all-kill. Back in the BW PL threads days, I remember fans discuss maps constantly. It was always part of the fun to talk about matchups based on maps and trying to out mind game your opponent. Fast forward to SC2 Proleague, and it seems all the nuances of putting out players based on maps is totally gone from fans' minds. A huge shame, because otherwise there can be some pretty fun discussions rather than a constant stream of rage. Map order for the match. <Cloud Kingdom>
<Ohana>
<Entombed Valley>
<Antiga Shipyard><Neo Arkanoid> <Neo Planet S> < Neo Bifrost> Stephano bad at preparation. I would think even the most casual fan who knows anything about maps should see why he was sent out first,
Agreed with this. If you guys want to point fingers, Stephano blew it big time. He had the perfect map setup for an AK after coming off a 3 kill in the last match. And he lost to a rookie making his first appearance.
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EPT
