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On January 16 2013 10:03 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 23:08 samuraibael wrote:
I cant believe so many people have jangbi on their anti. Successive osl victories against some the toughest competition ever including flash and an ultra in-form fantasy? Out of nowhere bringing the legend of the fall to life, twice (both meteorologically and metaphorically). The only way a player like that could be counted out is if they wernt even playing the game, not captaining a team dedicated to climbing the ranks. BW is still a different game than SC2, and not all players are able to make the transition. See Bisu
I think JangBi had more potential though. He was owning it up all the way to the very end.
Bisu was sadly inconsistent near the end of BW, failing to qualify for OSL multiple times (for example). He did manage to secure some PL wins but overall, he wasn't in top form in the end of BW unlike JangBi.
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On January 16 2013 10:16 Goldfish wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 10:03 Bagration wrote:On January 15 2013 23:08 samuraibael wrote:
I cant believe so many people have jangbi on their anti. Successive osl victories against some the toughest competition ever including flash and an ultra in-form fantasy? Out of nowhere bringing the legend of the fall to life, twice (both meteorologically and metaphorically). The only way a player like that could be counted out is if they wernt even playing the game, not captaining a team dedicated to climbing the ranks. BW is still a different game than SC2, and not all players are able to make the transition. See Bisu I think JangBi had more potential though. He was owning it up all the way to the very end. Bisu was sadly inconsistent near the end of BW, failing to qualify for OSL multiple times (for example). He did manage to secure some PL wins but overall, he wasn't in top form in the end of BW unlike JangBi.
I don't Bisu has ever qualified for a OSL. Anyone know for sure?
Though that doesn't dispute the fact Bisu was not like the Bisu of old at the end of BW.
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On January 16 2013 10:35 coasts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 10:16 Goldfish wrote:On January 16 2013 10:03 Bagration wrote:On January 15 2013 23:08 samuraibael wrote:
I cant believe so many people have jangbi on their anti. Successive osl victories against some the toughest competition ever including flash and an ultra in-form fantasy? Out of nowhere bringing the legend of the fall to life, twice (both meteorologically and metaphorically). The only way a player like that could be counted out is if they wernt even playing the game, not captaining a team dedicated to climbing the ranks. BW is still a different game than SC2, and not all players are able to make the transition. See Bisu I think JangBi had more potential though. He was owning it up all the way to the very end. Bisu was sadly inconsistent near the end of BW, failing to qualify for OSL multiple times (for example). He did manage to secure some PL wins but overall, he wasn't in top form in the end of BW unlike JangBi. I don't Bisu has ever qualified for a OSL. Anyone know for sure? Though that doesn't dispute the fact Bisu was not like the Bisu of old at the end of BW.
He has, it just that after Flash cheesed him out 2-0 and losing to Iris in another OSL where he was the hot favourite that he gained the OSL curse. Or something along those lines, I do agree that he has lost his original flair
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On January 16 2013 11:11 Dakkas wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 10:35 coasts wrote:On January 16 2013 10:16 Goldfish wrote:On January 16 2013 10:03 Bagration wrote:On January 15 2013 23:08 samuraibael wrote:
I cant believe so many people have jangbi on their anti. Successive osl victories against some the toughest competition ever including flash and an ultra in-form fantasy? Out of nowhere bringing the legend of the fall to life, twice (both meteorologically and metaphorically). The only way a player like that could be counted out is if they wernt even playing the game, not captaining a team dedicated to climbing the ranks. BW is still a different game than SC2, and not all players are able to make the transition. See Bisu I think JangBi had more potential though. He was owning it up all the way to the very end. Bisu was sadly inconsistent near the end of BW, failing to qualify for OSL multiple times (for example). He did manage to secure some PL wins but overall, he wasn't in top form in the end of BW unlike JangBi. I don't Bisu has ever qualified for a OSL. Anyone know for sure? Though that doesn't dispute the fact Bisu was not like the Bisu of old at the end of BW. He has, it just that after Flash cheesed him out 2-0 and losing to Iris in another OSL where he was the hot favourite that he gained the OSL curse. Or something along those lines, I do agree that he has lost his original flair
Ah. Thanks.
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On January 15 2013 21:32 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 21:13 mordk wrote:
How many rounds does proleague have? This could explain the terrible tendency of EGTL's coach to send out Puma I just can't wait until EGTL sends a full line up and gets owned just to see what sort of excuses the community will come up with. Actually, I may know already know the excuse they will come up with. They'll blame it on the maps! Even if they are ESV maps! lolz
No, they'll complain EGTL's players have too many VODs to study from and complain the sniper the opposing team sent to take that specific player out has none.
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On January 15 2013 21:32 BlazeFury01 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 21:13 mordk wrote:
How many rounds does proleague have? This could explain the terrible tendency of EGTL's coach to send out Puma I just can't wait until EGTL sends a full line up and gets owned just to see what sort of excuses the community will come up with. Actually, I may know already know the excuse they will come up with. They'll blame it on the maps! Even if they are ESV maps! lolz
How is that related at all to my post?
I just can't understand why would you ever send puma out, that is all, its not an excuse
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On January 15 2013 13:25 2muchSWAG wrote:
When idra plays I expect at least two kills per match from. He knows how KeSPA players work being on cj entus in bw and he has best foreign mechanics so I think he can hold his own in proleague. I can see him getting the next mvp award.
Jesus Christ...I mean its one thing to be a fan of Idra..but seriously??
Idra would be lucky to pick up two wins in the proleague
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jangbi destroyed my fantasy T_T
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The excuses that people have for EG-TL has more to do with how severely people underestimate the skill level of KeSPA players in SC2. Because only the Ace players have had success in other tournaments; they view the rest of the A-teamers like Stork, Light, Hydra, soo, Best, as B-leaguers who would not stand up to the A-teamers for EG-TL because relatively, Revival (with GSTL), Hero (NASL), JYP (*shrugs*), Thorzain (Dreamhack), had won tournaments before whereas the KeSPA have no history of any success at all.
This is a bad thought process. I think there's enough sample size to note that KeSPA A-Teamers are just as good as eSF A-teamers at this point; and in some cases even better. (A team like SKT T1/KT Rolster could land a whooping on a team like Prime).
As for Taeja/Stephano/Jaedong.
Taeja and Stephano are ace calibre players. This is obvious. Taeja is also performing like an ace player, having a dominant Round1 but proving that the ace players of other teams are just as good as he is. The same will apply for Stephano. He will likely have a decent record, however, he will still be prone to sniping, and players like Soulkey, Rain, Flash will present a formidable challenge to him.
As for Jaedong...he's doing good..no idea why he isnt being sent out often.
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On January 16 2013 11:54 LighT. wrote:
As for Jaedong...he's doing good..no idea why he isnt being sent out often.
Apparently he was down with flu or something. Guy was still streaming at like 3am after that day of SPL though lol. Jet lag + flu?
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On January 16 2013 11:33 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 21:32 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 15 2013 21:13 mordk wrote:
How many rounds does proleague have? This could explain the terrible tendency of EGTL's coach to send out Puma I just can't wait until EGTL sends a full line up and gets owned just to see what sort of excuses the community will come up with. Actually, I may know already know the excuse they will come up with. They'll blame it on the maps! Even if they are ESV maps! lolz No, they'll complain EGTL's players have too many VODs to study from and complain the sniper the opposing team sent to take that specific player out has none.
lol well there are plenty out vods out there now. But, you have definitely pointed out some likely TL excuses.
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On January 16 2013 11:44 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 21:32 BlazeFury01 wrote:On January 15 2013 21:13 mordk wrote:
How many rounds does proleague have? This could explain the terrible tendency of EGTL's coach to send out Puma I just can't wait until EGTL sends a full line up and gets owned just to see what sort of excuses the community will come up with. Actually, I may know already know the excuse they will come up with. They'll blame it on the maps! Even if they are ESV maps! lolz How is that related at all to my post? I just can't understand why would you ever send puma out, that is all, its not an excuse
I was generally speaking. Puma might look really good in practice but has a hard time implementing his practice play to an actual match. This happens to a lot of players actually.
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On January 16 2013 11:45 LighT. wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 13:25 2muchSWAG wrote:
When idra plays I expect at least two kills per match from. He knows how KeSPA players work being on cj entus in bw and he has best foreign mechanics so I think he can hold his own in proleague. I can see him getting the next mvp award. Jesus Christ...I mean its one thing to be a fan of Idra..but seriously?? Idra would be lucky to pick up two wins in the proleague
he's just trolling, I can see the sarcastic in that post already.
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On January 16 2013 10:35 coasts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 10:16 Goldfish wrote:On January 16 2013 10:03 Bagration wrote:On January 15 2013 23:08 samuraibael wrote:
I cant believe so many people have jangbi on their anti. Successive osl victories against some the toughest competition ever including flash and an ultra in-form fantasy? Out of nowhere bringing the legend of the fall to life, twice (both meteorologically and metaphorically). The only way a player like that could be counted out is if they wernt even playing the game, not captaining a team dedicated to climbing the ranks. BW is still a different game than SC2, and not all players are able to make the transition. See Bisu I think JangBi had more potential though. He was owning it up all the way to the very end. Bisu was sadly inconsistent near the end of BW, failing to qualify for OSL multiple times (for example). He did manage to secure some PL wins but overall, he wasn't in top form in the end of BW unlike JangBi. I don't Bisu has ever qualified for a OSL. Anyone know for sure? Though that doesn't dispute the fact Bisu was not like the Bisu of old at the end of BW.
Bisu was incredible in the final season of BW O.o
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On January 16 2013 13:50 hangarninetysix wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 10:35 coasts wrote:On January 16 2013 10:16 Goldfish wrote:On January 16 2013 10:03 Bagration wrote:On January 15 2013 23:08 samuraibael wrote:
I cant believe so many people have jangbi on their anti. Successive osl victories against some the toughest competition ever including flash and an ultra in-form fantasy? Out of nowhere bringing the legend of the fall to life, twice (both meteorologically and metaphorically). The only way a player like that could be counted out is if they wernt even playing the game, not captaining a team dedicated to climbing the ranks. BW is still a different game than SC2, and not all players are able to make the transition. See Bisu I think JangBi had more potential though. He was owning it up all the way to the very end. Bisu was sadly inconsistent near the end of BW, failing to qualify for OSL multiple times (for example). He did manage to secure some PL wins but overall, he wasn't in top form in the end of BW unlike JangBi. I don't Bisu has ever qualified for a OSL. Anyone know for sure? Though that doesn't dispute the fact Bisu was not like the Bisu of old at the end of BW. Bisu was incredible in the final season of BW O.o
Hardly, he did pretty well but not as well as Fantasy or Flash who both beasted it up in Proleague and individuals (Jangbi only went good during the OSL). His biggest moment was the OSL finals where he provided just about the best possible game possible against Flash
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On December 29 2012 12:49 Waxangel wrote:
when EG-TL is #1 at the end of round six, Fionn will have the grace to not PM everyone in this thread to gloat
Still waiting for this to happen. At least they're not last unlike GSTL right?
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United States7116 Posts
On January 16 2013 11:54 LighT. wrote:
The excuses that people have for EG-TL has more to do with how severely people underestimate the skill level of KeSPA players in SC2. Because only the Ace players have had success in other tournaments; they view the rest of the A-teamers like Stork, Light, Hydra, soo, Best, as B-leaguers who would not stand up to the A-teamers for EG-TL because relatively, Revival (with GSTL), Hero (NASL), JYP (*shrugs*), Thorzain (Dreamhack), had won tournaments before whereas the KeSPA have no history of any success at all.
This is a bad thought process. I think there's enough sample size to note that KeSPA A-Teamers are just as good as eSF A-teamers at this point; and in some cases even better. (A team like SKT T1/KT Rolster could land a whooping on a team like Prime).
As for Taeja/Stephano/Jaedong.
Taeja and Stephano are ace calibre players. This is obvious. Taeja is also performing like an ace player, having a dominant Round1 but proving that the ace players of other teams are just as good as he is. The same will apply for Stephano. He will likely have a decent record, however, he will still be prone to sniping, and players like Soulkey, Rain, Flash will present a formidable challenge to him.
As for Jaedong...he's doing good..no idea why he isnt being sent out often.
Lol underestimate? Just a few months ago people were screaming about how the elephant stampede is going to cause a revolution in Code S, and look what happened at the Up/Downs recently. Even I wouldn't have predicted that zero Kespa players would get through. Also, Revival and JYP haven't won any individual tournaments, so I don't see why you even bothered listing them - it doesn't contribute to the point you're trying to make at all, it just makes it look like you're really reaching. Lastly, there's no proof that SKT T1/KT would "land a whooping" on Prime. That's pure conjecture, and I say that as someone whose least favorite ESF team is probably Prime. MKP, Byun, Creator, and to a lesser extent Maru, are all formidable players who can go head-to-head with Kespa's best.
In SC2, anyone can beat anyone else on a fairly regular basis, so it doesn't really even work to bring up minute examples of X beating Y on individual occasions. For example, Taeja has fairly recently lost Bo3s to Genius and finale (which hold more water than Bo1s, I might add), neither of whom anyone would regard as an ace caliber player, yet by your metric, you'd be able to argue that they're "just as good" as him. There seems to be somewhat of a double standard regarding Kespa players beating top-tier ESF players and low/mid-tier ESF players beating top-tier ESF players. When the former occurs, suddenly there's talk of how top Kespa players are surpassing top ESF players, but when the latter occurs, it's just an upset, nothing more.
In regards to Stephano, ZvZ is by and far his worst matchup. I mean, he's been recently losing to foreigners on a fairly regular basis in ZvZ, so Kespa players beating him in ZvZ doesn't say much.
If you really want to look at the truly "top" players then you have to look toward which players are consistently winning/placing high in major individual tournaments, and the only Kespa player who's doing that/has done that is Rain (and he's fallen off really badly recently in the GSL for some reason).
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On January 16 2013 15:02 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 11:54 LighT. wrote:
The excuses that people have for EG-TL has more to do with how severely people underestimate the skill level of KeSPA players in SC2. Because only the Ace players have had success in other tournaments; they view the rest of the A-teamers like Stork, Light, Hydra, soo, Best, as B-leaguers who would not stand up to the A-teamers for EG-TL because relatively, Revival (with GSTL), Hero (NASL), JYP (*shrugs*), Thorzain (Dreamhack), had won tournaments before whereas the KeSPA have no history of any success at all.
This is a bad thought process. I think there's enough sample size to note that KeSPA A-Teamers are just as good as eSF A-teamers at this point; and in some cases even better. (A team like SKT T1/KT Rolster could land a whooping on a team like Prime).
As for Taeja/Stephano/Jaedong.
Taeja and Stephano are ace calibre players. This is obvious. Taeja is also performing like an ace player, having a dominant Round1 but proving that the ace players of other teams are just as good as he is. The same will apply for Stephano. He will likely have a decent record, however, he will still be prone to sniping, and players like Soulkey, Rain, Flash will present a formidable challenge to him.
As for Jaedong...he's doing good..no idea why he isnt being sent out often. Lol underestimate? Just a few months ago people were screaming about how the elephant stampede is going to cause a revolution in Code S, and look what happened at the Up/Downs recently. Even I wouldn't have predicted that zero Kespa players would get through. Also, Revival and JYP haven't won any individual tournaments, so I don't see why you even bothered listing them - it doesn't contribute to the point you're trying to make at all, it just makes it look like you're really reaching. Lastly, there's no proof that SKT T1/KT would "land a whooping" on Prime. That's pure conjecture, and I say that as someone whose least favorite ESF team is probably Prime. MKP, Byun, Creator, and to a lesser extent Maru, are all formidable players who can go head-to-head with Kespa's best. In SC2, anyone can beat anyone else on a fairly regular basis, so it doesn't really even work to bring up minute examples of X beating Y on individual occasions. For example, Taeja has fairly recently lost Bo3s to Genius and finale (which hold more water than Bo1s, I might add), neither of whom anyone would regard as an ace caliber player, yet by your metric, you'd be able to argue that they're "just as good" as him. There seems to be somewhat of a double standard regarding Kespa players beating top-tier ESF players and low/mid-tier ESF players beating top-tier ESF players. When the former occurs, suddenly there's talk of how top Kespa players are surpassing top ESF players, but when the latter occurs, it's just an upset, nothing more. In regards to Stephano, ZvZ is by and far his worst matchup. I mean, he's been recently losing to foreigners on a fairly regular basis in ZvZ, so Kespa players beating him in ZvZ doesn't say much. If you really want to look at the truly "top" players then you have to look toward which players are consistently winning/placing high in major individual tournaments, and the only Kespa player who's doing that/has done that is Rain (and he's fallen off really badly recently in the GSL for some reason).
That isn't even that big of a deal. Simply because the Kespa players priority is pro league. They were practicing more for their Pro League opponents while the non-GSL players in the U/D's only had their U/D matches to focus on which gave them more time to study and prepare for their opponents then the Kespa players had. The Kespa players are also practicing on a different map pool too.
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I think BO 1 is the biggest issue. JD especially made huge errors to lose his games rather than the ESF players winning them. In a series he wont repeat those errors.
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What a boring discussion.. always the same thing.. Either you hate on BW players or hate on GSL players!
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EPT
